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For a game about forging narratives and larger-than-life heroics, a lot of characters just die too fast. At one wound apiece, many Marine sergeants just aren't worth equipping with anything more than a combi-weapon or meltabombs, while DE carry a Haywire Grenade and call it a day. Also, the moment a one-wound Psyker suffers Perils...

Basically, every non-MC character, from Astropaths to that stupid Aspiring Sorcerer should have an extra wound base. The only concern then become the already super-tough characters becoming tougher; while making a Marine Sergeant 2 wounds base or giving a 4th wound to a Warboss are reasonable, making a Chapter Master have 5 wounds is a bit much; then again, Smashfucker is arguably an MC in his own

Any other major concerns that would arise from this?

Yeah but Smashfether still dies to Jaws of the World wolf and other remove from play abilities that don't affect MC.

I like the idea, it'd make alot of IoM armies better ( since we generally have the character+ squad mechanic everywhere)

Would you increase the wounds of things like Tyranids who seldom have characters also to balance it?

Snark Answer: No, because I am actually Robin Cruddace. Tyranids have no tanks and bore me.

(Note, I am not Cruddace)

Serious Answer: Tyranids can use more characters and general rebalancing. Not that characters are actually "personalities" but anything from a Node-Beast ('Gant variant that lets you at the start of each player turn selectively add/subtract 6" for determining if you're in Synapse Range. Do you want Fearless, or G2G?), Alpha Raveners, etc. And for Hivessake, give the Broodlord Flesh Hooks.

First problem I see, And this is a nerf for my army if this actually happened. Nobz would have 3 wounds instead of 2. Do you really want my average Nob in a boyz squad to be able to soak 3 wounds before dying?

I'm curious how it is a nerf. Yes, I know 3 Nob wounds vs 2 Sergeant wounds isn't as big a gap, and that Eavy Armor is all-or-nothing for Boyz (grumble grumble 7th ed), but if you're running a Nob, you were probably giving him a Klaw anyway, no?

sorry i might not have made that clear enough, what im saying is that I think it is a bad idea even though it would give my guys 3 wounds in my average nob, so i would prefer to keep them the same...so im kinda nerfing myself.

I just wish 3-wound psykers actually existed outside of named characters (I'm talking librarians specifically). Librarians are cheap, sure, but if I want to run one as my warlord I can't make one that's even remotely durable, no matter how many points I spend. They're already inferior to most HQ's in CC, they need to pay for an invuln.... 2 wounds means they squish by turn 4 if you do anything other than hide them in the back all game. And while I'm normally fine running a named librarian (I have Ezekiel), I'd generally prefer a terminator or bike librarian that doesn't cost a million points as my warlord.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
For a game about forging narratives and larger-than-life heroics, a lot of characters just die too fast. At one wound apiece, many Marine sergeants just aren't worth equipping with anything more than a combi-weapon or meltabombs, while DE carry a Haywire Grenade and call it a day. Also, the moment a one-wound Psyker suffers Perils...

Basically, every non-MC character, from Astropaths to that stupid Aspiring Sorcerer should have an extra wound base. The only concern then become the already super-tough characters becoming tougher; while making a Marine Sergeant 2 wounds base or giving a 4th wound to a Warboss are reasonable, making a Chapter Master have 5 wounds is a bit much; then again, Smashfucker is arguably an MC in his own

Any other major concerns that would arise from this?

Smashfucker aside (not that he's as much of a problem as anyone says he is), I think 5W chapter masters in general would be an issue. Now I am a fan of 2W sergeants. This would go well with making challenges more viable since my Veteran sergeant could actually survive a round of combat. Perhaps amend the OP with a hard cap at 4?

The above is only a concern for beatsticks, though. 3W stock librarians are a little much and the special characters that already have 3W would feel too strong i think. I kind of think a support HQ should stay fragile or else beatstick melee bosses become less cool because a librarian or a chaplain does the same job while also buffing other units for less points.

Honestly I would just keep it simpler than that... instead of worrying about all the multi-wound characters getting worse, I would just say that all 1 wound characters should have at least 2 instead. Anything that has 2+ wounds already is fine to stay as it is... but giving those sargeants that extra umph would be well worth it.

chanceafs wrote:
Honestly I would just keep it simpler than that... instead of worrying about all the multi-wound characters getting worse, I would just say that all 1 wound characters should have at least 2 instead. Anything that has 2+ wounds already is fine to stay as it is... but giving those sargeants that extra umph would be well worth it.

And what you just did by doing that is to NERF every army that already had 2 wound Sergeants equivalents. My Ork Nob is special because he has 2 wounds, something most of his opponents don't have. So when you buff everyone else and leave out certain units you are basically nerfing them.

-Exarchs should be excepted. 2W would work for them, but 3W would not.
-Warlocks should probably be excepted, too. They are rank-and-file psykers, basically.
-Troup Masters should get the bonus. They are effectively the HQ choice. Still IDed on S6, too.

Exarches probably could be exceptioned from it. I feel that Warlocks should get an extra wound, simply because 7th did a good job making Perils a *lot* more common compared to previous editions.

vehicles below 75pts should have another hp.

Yknow, I wouldn't be surprised if vet sergeants got an extra wound in the next marine book.

The real shock would be how silly vet squads would become with that.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Exarches probably could be exceptioned from it. I feel that Warlocks should get an extra wound, simply because 7th did a good job making Perils a *lot* more common compared to previous editions.

I would not mind a Dawn of War 2-esque Warlock hero who blends melee ability with psychic offense.

Unlikely to happen, sadly.

An extra wound is fine, as long as it comes at the price of removing EW entirely. It doesn't matter how heroic you are, a direct hit from a titan's main gun is still going to kill you. But now at least you're not dying as easily from random flashlights.

The upgraded characters in squads should get it. The skitarii, harlequins, and exarch all have it now and I think it may end up being a trend. They even added a wound each to the lords and crypteks for necrons. This way,nobs wouldn't be 3 wounds but boss nobs would be three showing their position being just behind the warboss.

So every squad gets a 2W sergeant equivalent but my Boyz squads who already have 2W Sergeants basically lose an advantage they had over other units. Thats the problem everyone is glossing over. its a buff for a bunch of things and a nerf for others. Im ok with this though if my Nobz drop in price by 5-10pts/

I think everything in the game as far as number of hits go is balanced against each other fairly well (in that one respect. They are NOT balanced in other respects).

If you want to increase the number of wounds to create a better narrative then increase the wounds on everything. Not every but but -.

MC are not "broken" inherently in such a way that everything else in the game should be harder to kill but them.

Lance845 wrote:
I think everything in the game as far as number of hits go is balanced against each other fairly well (in that one respect. They are NOT balanced in other respects).

If you want to increase the number of wounds to create a better narrative then increase the wounds on everything. Not every but but -.

MC are not "broken" inherently in such a way that everything else in the game should be harder to kill but them.

It's less "everything else in the game," and more, "a single model in some squads."

Personally, I like the idea of boosting all 1W characters to 2W. It gives them a little buffer against that first lucky shot/punch, but they'll still drop reasonably fast to any serious threats. It's "lasgun insurance."

As for Nobs, they're currently T4, right? Or are they T5? If they're T4, how about leaving their wounds unchanged but upping their T to 5? Makes them just slightly harder to hurt in challenges and such, but also makes them immune to powerfist insta-gibbing and leaves them relatively durable compared to their peers. You're right about it probably being a poor move to buff most other squad leaders while excluding them, but making them 3 wounds probably makes them a bit too beefy. A vet sergeant would have to make all 3 of his attacks stick to take out your character on the turn it charged him.

Warlocks could probably stand to gain a wound. They're essentially Lhameans without insta-death that cost 15 points more for powers that actually aren't all that helpful in their own squad. Though that probably leads to a lot of seer council bike abuse. Er, more seer council bike abuse. Maybe just give them ghost helms instead and make a beefed up version to be the dawn of war style warlock?

If the rule were for Characters, IIRC Council locks are no longer Characters.