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Why do people keep comparing this to a las predator as if the las predator was not horribly overcosted as compared to the other options in it's own codex?

If you are going to compare this to something compare it to the options people usually take; Imperial Fist lascannon devastators, Imperial Fist ML/lascannon Centurion Devastators, and melta in pods. Las predators have been less than mediocre for several editions now.

IMO it is somewhat undercosted but it is also rather fragile and will struggle to find a place on a table top where it both has good line of sight and doesn't expose it's AV11 sides to the enemy.

Really awesome model though and the weapon is a very cool gimmick.

Forgeworld has the advantage of actually being able to properly create new things. GW is stuck with way too many legacy issues and can't make sweeping changes. Which is why Predators (well, actually, most Space Marine vehicles) have basically sucked for so long. Because GW publishes them in half a dozen different codexes, they can't make significant changes anymore. Instead of GW giving us a properly designed Predator in a new SM codex, we get Centurions and Hunter/Stalkers. Because to properly update the Predator in one and leaving it unaltered for all the other space marine chapters, results in players screaming bloody murder (anybody else remember the change from 4++ to 3++ storm shields?). So, GW gives us new crap rather than fixing the crap we already have.

And, Emprah almighty, people, have you even seen the new Eldar and Necron rules? And a Vindicator is what you complain about? The "worst" FW model is nowhere near as bad as anything GW has done in the last 5 years.

Why do people keep comparing this to a las predator as if the las predator was not horribly overcosted as compared to the other options in it's own codex?

It's because people have grown accustomed to, at best mediocre, Space Marine tanks over the years. For Space Marines to actually get a good tank is such an enormously mindblowing paradigm shift that it can't be handled. But I guess they would rather play against Chapter Master Smashfether and his Amazing Technicolor GravCentStar.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Forgeworld has the advantage of actually being able to properly create new things. GW is stuck with way too many legacy issues and can't make sweeping changes. Which is why Predators (well, actually, most Space Marine vehicles) have basically sucked for so long. Because GW publishes them in half a dozen different codexes, they can't make significant changes anymore. Instead of GW giving us a properly designed Predator in a new SM codex, we get Centurions and Hunter/Stalkers. Because to properly update the Predator in one and leaving it unaltered for all the other space marine chapters, results in players screaming bloody murder (anybody else remember the change from 4++ to 3++ storm shields?). So, GW gives us new crap rather than fixing the crap we already have.

And, Emprah almighty, people, have you even seen the new Eldar and Necron rules? And a Vindicator is what you complain about? The "worst" FW model is nowhere near as bad as anything GW has done in the last 5 years.

Why do people keep comparing this to a las predator as if the las predator was not horribly overcosted as compared to the other options in it's own codex?

It's because people have grown accustomed to, at best mediocre, Space Marine tanks over the years. For Space Marines to actually get a good tank is such an enormously mindblowing paradigm shift that it can't be handled. But I guess they would rather play against Chapter Master Smashfether and his Amazing Technicolor GravCentStar.

Yea I was thinking the same thing, especially about space marines. Honestly it would cost the same if you add a storm bolter to make weapons destroy result a little less likely to neuter this thing.


maybe they could use the White dwarf format to update things across every codex. if they bump rhinos up to armor 12 in front, then maybe they can release the WD to update it for everything.


a guy can dream can't he?

Really all the SM vehicles could be fixed with some pts tweaks and letting them squadron.

In the siege list they allow this and it makes a huge difference. Really just put the stuff in the siege list as options in the codex and most of the vehicles become useful. Las pred squadron with tank hunter anyone?

 CrownAxe wrote:
GW doesn't know how to balance their units or cost them. FW does.

That's what the this is cheaper then a las pred. Because the lad pred was overcosted in the first place.

Las pred was over-costed before, and now we have a replacement so we will never ever use it.

Forge World is terrible at balance.
Do you really see as many Predator Executioners as you do Sicaran Battle Tanks?

Have you ever seen anyone field a Land Raider Helios? Of course not, it's terrible for the points.
Forgeworld makes units every bit as skewed as the GW does, which is giving you more reasons to use less and less of the normal units.


Yeah, some of the eldar and necron stuff is pretty broken. I think that justifies nerfs to eldar and necron though, not breaking everything else as well.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
GW doesn't know how to balance their units or cost them. FW does.

That's what the this is cheaper then a las pred. Because the lad pred was overcosted in the first place.

Las pred was over-costed before, and now we have a replacement so we will never ever use it.

Forge World is terrible at balance.
Do you really see as many Predator Executioners as you do Sicaran Battle Tanks?

Have you ever seen anyone field a Land Raider Helios? Of course not, it's terrible for the points.
Forgeworld makes units every bit as skewed as the GW does, which is giving you more reasons to use less and less of the normal units.


Yeah, some of the eldar and necron stuff is pretty broken. I think that justifies nerfs to eldar and necron though, not breaking everything else as well.

No one uses Las-Preds now. They were already outclassed by codex options (grav-cents, grav bikes, Poding plasma/melta, Devastators). Their being one more better option does not change it.

No of course i see more sicarans but that's because the role it provides is a strong counter to the meta. If the meta was heavy on 2+ infantry then you would see more Pred-Exes and not many Sicarans.

Nothing FW has come out with is broken. Yeah they've made strong units and a few weak ones but they are way closer to balanced then the extremes that GW has. Nothing FW has made comes even close to the new wraithknight or screamerstar. FW is doing nothing to break the game.

Agreed. Not even at it's worst the R'varna was as bad as what GW just released, and it was even nerfed before rules publishing. It's almost like they actually care.

The tank looks fine to me.

3 twin linked str 9 ap1 ordnance shots is of course good - but no ignores cover and remaining stationary to fire keep things in check.

Of course the obvious comparison is with the laspred, but when was the last time anyone ever used one of those?

FW rules can fall either side of the balance line - but are certainly more consistent that GW.

I'm excited that Chaos can use it as well (another thing forgeworld is mostly good at). It makes a perfect backfield anchor unit with the Legacy of Ruin that gives nearby cultists fearless (and a 4++ on the last hullpoint!)