Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It's gonna be hilarious seeing them try to fit Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines into a Decurion.

Isn't that what Daemonkin is, more or less?

The Decurion formations are awesome. They only help the game and are completely optional. And yes, daemonkin have a decurion light. I'ts not quite as involved as eldar or necron. Not that it's a problem though.

It's not the formations that I have a problem with w.r.t the new eldar dex. It does a lot of things right. The hosts are great.

It's units like the cringeworthy knight that leave a bitter after taste.

 ionusx wrote:
...these formations are tied to the flow chart and can't be extracted. Your tied down to them unless you go back to traditional army building but then gw offers you no formations. It's flow charts of linearity or bust.

...? The formations exist outside the flowchart, you're allowed to take them independently.

Codex: Craftworld Eldar contains eight formations that can be taken as additional detachments on top of a CAD or as part of a Warhost meta-formation, you can gain the formation benefits for a Wraith Host without taking any other models at all.

If you're going to complain about any inflexibility resulting from the formations a more reasonable angle would be that these formations have very specific requirements; compare the Windrider Host in the book (exactly one jetbike Farseer, one jetbike Warlock Conclave, three Windrider units, and one Vyper squadron) to the Apocalypse Windrider Host (one jetbike Autarch, two Windrider units, one Vyper unit, 3+ units taken from any combination of jetbike Farseer, jetbike Warlocks, Windriders, and Vypers).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(There are two problems with the Codex: incredibly inexpensive D-weapons and 100% heavy weapon density on the Jetbikes; nothing else is particularly silly.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
...these formations are tied to the flow chart and can't be extracted. Your tied down to them unless you go back to traditional army building but then gw offers you no formations. It's flow charts of linearity or bust.

...? The formations exist outside the flowchart, you're allowed to take them independently.

Codex: Craftworld Eldar contains eight formations that can be taken as additional detachments on top of a CAD or as part of a Warhost meta-formation, you can gain the formation benefits for a Wraith Host without taking any other models at all.

If you're going to complain about any inflexibility resulting from the formations a more reasonable angle would be that these formations have very specific requirements; compare the Windrider Host in the book (exactly one jetbike Farseer, one jetbike Warlock Conclave, three Windrider units, and one Vyper squadron) to the Apocalypse Windrider Host (one jetbike Autarch, two Windrider units, one Vyper unit, 3+ units taken from any combination of jetbike Farseer, jetbike Warlocks, Windriders, and Vypers).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(There are two problems with the Codex: incredibly inexpensive D-weapons and 100% heavy weapon density on the Jetbikes; nothing else is particularly silly.)

True, that much I could see as a legitimate concern. The daemonkin formations are much more flexible with what units you get to chose for each formation in comparison.
If they could meet somewhere in the middle that would be nice.

 Xerics wrote:
Now it is more enjoyable for those of us who collected all the units from our army rather than just the ones that were played in the little version of 40k. D weapons just make sense. Distortion weapons being STR D even make sense from a fluff standpoint. Just because the IOM has been held back by their lack of technology doesn't mean the rest should be held back too. This is the future and weapons that just erase things from existance should exist and the distortion weapons fit that description. Why bring a knife to a knife fight when you can bring a gun instead and gain a clear advantage? before you say it is the honorable thing to do or some such line that isnt fair or balanced just remember that war is never fair or balanced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and if you say you'll just bring however many points to the fight over my not as many points, I have met very few people who have more points into a single army than I do.

Let me translate that for the rest of us.

"I for one welcome being your new Eldar overlord"

They could do a lot with IG formations! Hoping for some good stuff there... Like everyone above has said, formations are just another way to build and they give you bonuses for using them. In my GK I couldn't imagine using anything other than the NSF for example, but if I want to play a CAD I can! Maybe execution is abit lacking... But it's a start! And you can always use a CAD

Alcibiades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It's gonna be hilarious seeing them try to fit Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines into a Decurion.

Isn't that what Daemonkin is, more or less?

A very, very specific variant of it. They all worship khorne and is daemons and CSM together.

Can you now try and imagine how they would deal with Slaanesh/Khorne, Tzeentch/Nurgle? Tzeentch/Khorne Chaos Daemon that's all of the above?

Or the vastly chaotic and massive armies of CSM that they've been having trouble getting down normally due to not being sure of what to do with them, let alone fitting them into about 5-12 boxes. Figuring out what to do with Cult troops, marked characters, legions and all that..

 Toofast wrote:
You can take a formation and a CAD. The only thing you can't take is the auxiliary stuff like the wraith constructs. In the eldar book for example nothing is stopping you from doing a CAD and wraith host, you just get the wraith host benefit but not the war host benefit. I use CAD because I play competitively and tax units are not worth the minor formation buff and loss of obsec. However if you're building a fluffy army there's no reason you can't take CAD + formation.

Those are independent formation. In the Codex, it is mentioned SPECIFICALLY that you need at least 1 Core Detachment from from the Eldar Codex to unlock the Wraith Host as a formation. Otherwise, the Wraith Host have nothing to.

Interestingly though, you can bring a Wraith Host and play in as the Ghost Warriors, which is indeed, an independent formation that can be taken for any army.

Personally I like the new style of army building - be it formations or a full decurion style build. I like having the option to add some interesting rules in to the game.

Despite this, I do also believe that this is a blatant attempt to grab more and more money from 40k gamers - adding a unit tax which is subpar, or even just unpopular does seem like a cheap trick to me...

However, I look forward to the games to come

 NathanD298 wrote:
...I do also believe that this is a blatant attempt to grab more and more money from 40k gamers...

Gee. I'm shocked. GW is making a blatant money grab.

 NathanD298 wrote:
Personally I like the new style of army building - be it formations or a full decurion style build. I like having the option to add some interesting rules in to the game.

Despite this, I do also believe that this is a blatant attempt to grab more and more money from 40k gamers - adding a unit tax which is subpar, or even just unpopular does seem like a cheap trick to me...

However, I look forward to the games to come

It is, but...I think we still come out on top for once. And it IS still optional so meh. If GW wants to sell models, I'd rather they do this than go the wraithknight route.