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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 02:04:10
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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CNN has a similar timeline that I think is a little better.
Freddie Gray case: Actions that led to charges
By Ray Sanchez, CNN
Updated 9:18 PM ET, Fri May 1, 2015
(CNN)In publicly outlining her case against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray, Baltimore's chief prosecutor faulted what they did -- and did not do.
Among the allegations: Failure to find probable cause, illegal arrest, failure to seek or render medical aid, gross negligence and misconduct.
"The findings of our comprehensive, thorough and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination that Mr. Gray's death was a homicide ... has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges," State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby told reporters from the broad steps of the downtown War Memorial.
Gray suffered a fatal spinal injury on April 12 while being transported "handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained" in a police van, Mosby said.
Michael Davey, an attorney for the Baltimore Fraternal Order of Police who spoke on behalf of the six officers and their attorneys, told reporters that none of the officers injured or harmed Gray. "They are truly saddened by his death," Davey said. "These officers did nothing wrong."
These are the actions that Mosby said resulted in the charges against the six, based on the statement of probable cause:
Officer Garrett E. Miller
Miller, 26, who joined the force in 2012, was one of three officers on bike patrol on the morning of April 12 in Baltimore. One of the other officers made eye contact with Gray, who began running.
Gray eventually surrendered and was handcuffed. He was "placed in a prone position with his arms handcuffed behind his back. It was at this time that Mr. Gray indicated that he could not breathe and requested an inhaler to no avail," Mosby said.
Miller and another officer placed Gray in a seated position. They found a knife in his pants pocket. The blade of the knife was folded into the handle. It was not a switchblade, and legal to carry under Maryland law.
"Mr. Gray was placed back down on his stomach at which time Mr. Gray began to flail his legs and scream as Officer Miller placed Mr. Gray in a restraining technique known as a leg lace," the prosecutor said.
The three officers failed to establish probable cause for Gray's arrest. No crime had been committed. The arrest was illegal, Mosby said.
When the police van arrived, Miller and the two other officers loaded Gray into the wagon. At no point was Gray secured by a seat belt as is required. A while later, at Baker Street, Miller and the officers removed Gray from the wagon, placed handcuffs on his wrists and leg shackles on his ankles. They completed paperwork before loading Gray back into the wagon. He was placed on his stomach headfirst on the floor.
Miller is charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
Lt. Brian W. Rice
Rice, 41, an officer since 1997, was one of the officers on bike patrol during the initial encounter with Gray. He made eye contact with Gray, who then ran. Rice and others failed to establish probable cause for Gray's illegal arrest. Later, Rice and two other officers handcuffed Gray and put shackles on his ankles. The officers placed Gray back on the floor of the wagon, face down.
Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
Separately, records from the Carroll County, Maryland, Sheriff's Department show that Rice was taken to a hospital in 2012 because of concerns about his mental health.
The concerns were raised by another officer who is also the mother of Rice's child, according to the records. At the time, deputies confiscated Rice's guns and alerted his superiors in Baltimore.
The records show that Rice said he "could not continue to go on like this" and threatened to do something in his laundry room if the mother of his child "did not come over to his residence." His specific threat was redacted from the documents. It's unclear how long Rice was at the hospital.
Rice could not be reached for comment.
Officer Edward M. Nero
Nero, 29, on the job since 2012, was the third officer on bike patrol when Gray was arrested. Mosby said Nero held Gray down until the wagon arrived. Along with Rice and Miller, Nero failed to establish probable cause for what Mosby called an illegal arrest. Nero also assisted Rice and Miller later in cuffing and shackling Gray.
He is charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr.
Goodson, 45, who joined the police department in 1999, drove the transport wagon. He had been directed to deliver Gray to the central booking facility.
At one point, Goodson parked the van to check on his prisoner.
"Despite stopping for the purpose of checking on Mr. Gray's condition, at no point did he seek nor did he render any medical assistance for Mr. Gray," Mosby said.
Goodson returned to the driver's seat and headed toward central booking with Gray still unsecured. After several blocks, the officer called dispatch to say he needed to check on his prisoner. He requested additional units.
Another officer arrived and, with Goodson, went to the back of the wagon. Gray requested help and said he could not breathe. One officer asked Gray if he needed a medic. Twice, Gray said he needed medical assistance. The officer helped lift Gray from the floor to a bench in the van.
Again, the officers failed to restrain Gray or request medical assistance. Goodson then responded to a separate call for assistance in an arrest.
"Despite Mr. Gray's obvious and recognized need for medical assistance, Officer Goodson in a grossly negligent manner chose to respond ... with Gray still unsecured by a seat belt in the wagon, without rendering or summoning medical assistance," Mosby said.
At the next stop, Goodson was met by Miller and three other officers. He walked to the back of the wagon to check on Gray. Goodson and the other officers saw that Gray was unresponsive.
Still, Goodson picked up a new prisoner and drove to a police station to drop him off. He failed to restrain Gray for at least the fifth time, Mosby said. Gray was no longer breathing.
Goodson is charged with second-degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, two counts of manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.
CNN legal analyst Sonny Hostin said the depraved-heart murder charge appeared to indicate the prosecutor believes Goodson was "one of the worst actors" in Gray's death.
"Depraved heart means he intentionally, willfully and deliberately acted with depraved indifference to human life," she said.
Sgt. Alicia D. White
White, 30, an officer since 2010, was present during one of the stops to check on Gray's condition. White and two other officers saw that Gray was unresponsive on the floor of the wagon.
White, who was responsible for investigating two citizen complaints related to Gray's arrest, spoke to the back of the prisoner's head.
When Gray did not respond, White allegedly did nothing. She had been advised that Gray needed a medic but made no effort to assess his condition.
"Despite Mr. Gray's seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered or summoned for Mr. Gray at that time by any officer," Mosby said.
Later, White and two other officers attempted to remove Gray from the wagon. He was no longer breathing. A medic later determined Gray was in "cardiac arrest and ... critically and severely injured."
Gray was rushed to the University of Maryland's Shock Trauma Center, where he underwent surgery. On April 19, he was pronounced dead from his injuries.
"The manner of death, deemed a homicide by the Maryland State Medical Examiner, is believed to be the result of a fatal injury that occurred while Mr. Gray was unrestrained by a seat belt in the custody of the Baltimore Police Department wagon," Mosby said.
White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
Officer William G. Porter
Porter, 25, who joined the force in 2012, responded when Goodson asked for additional units to check on Gray. The prisoner told Porter he could not breathe. Porter asked Gray if he needed a medic. Gray said "yes" twice. The officer helped lift Gray to a bench but did not assess his condition or call for medical assistance. Porter also was present later when Goodson picked up another prisoner, and White and others discovered that Gray was unresponsive.
Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
CNN's Scott Zamost contributed to this report.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 02:09:27
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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This is getting "dumber" now. Seems Freddie was a CI. Which would explain the apprehension part.
As for the charges per officer that would be up to the Grand Jury to decide which charge they can stick them with. The "eye witness" already gave a sworn statement I'm sure so this is going to get interesting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 04:00:39
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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Not trying to be snarky, but in Ferguson the blame for. The troubles in that city were initially put on there being an almost all white police force and city council.
What has been the official position about the Baltimore case among the protestors?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 04:09:50
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Verviedi wrote: Medium of Death wrote:One thing that perplexes me is why the curfew isn't being imposed this evening but tomorrow?
These rioters need shooting.
Rubber bullets are extremely inefficient against such a mob. A water cannon has more shock value and is more effective at clearing large amounts of hostiles at short range.
Hey! I saw that, you can't trick me!
Either way is correct however.
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*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here* |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 05:45:05
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
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I'm still unclear as to what actually happened. Every report I've seen, including this one, is so vague about how Grey was actually fatally injured I'm more perplexed than anything. It's all "the police arrested him, tossed him in a van, and then he broke his neck and died". Was he injured when he was tackled? I feel like I'm missing some key details...
Relapse wrote:Not trying to be snarky, but in Ferguson the blame for. The troubles in that city were initially put on there being an almost all white police force and city council.
What has been the official position about the Baltimore case among the protestors?
Accuse them of being Uncle Toms?
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I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 11:44:10
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Rogue Inquisitor with Xenos Bodyguards
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Video of them putting him the van seems to indicate he was injured when tackled, he is heard to shout loudly, and the ones taking the videos are yelling about he is not using his legs much if at all. they seemed to have trouble loading hi into the van.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 17:16:12
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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This gets better and better with the mayor. Now she is apologizing for what she called the rioters:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/29/baltimore-protesters-thugs_n_7172562.html
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 18:38:35
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Okay, so she issued an apology to people who think she used a word, that whether you like it or not, has become racially charged. She isn't saying that what they did was right or justified and they need to be held accountable for their behavior, so big deal.
As far as your previous post and claim of not being snarky (while being snarky), allow me to play Devil's advocate: notice the three officers that initiated the unnecessary confrontation that ended in an illegal arrest. All white dudes.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 18:54:45
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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I think, though that anyone who engages in such mayhem deserves the term, no matter their color. It's just an example of another word being put down the memory hole and a version of an attempt at thought control.
As far as the second point goes, Baltimore's city council and police force is largely made up of Black people leaving me to wonder about the disconnect is in the treatment of Blacks.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/02 18:56:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 19:06:52
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Whether or not the charges stick, at least it's being investigated. That's a lot more than I really expected...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 19:38:22
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Relapse wrote:I think, though that anyone who engages in such mayhem deserves the term, no matter their color. It's just an example of another word being put down the memory hole and a version of an attempt at thought control.
Yeah, it could be that... or it could be that the term has become racial charged (because it has).
Oh noes, one less racial-charged word used to disparage an entire group of people? Whatever will we do now? Never mind, it should be okay... we live in "post-racial" America, right?
As far as the second point goes, Baltimore's city council and police force is largely made up of Black people leaving me to wonder about the disconnect is in the treatment of Blacks.
Except the part about the Baltimore PD isn't accurate:
White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
Also, most people with functioning neurons understand that the race/sex of the office doesn't always correspond to whether or not they will abuse their power; there are truly great cops or every race and there are horrible cops that abuse their power of every race. Corruption is color blind.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 20:08:50
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote:White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
Also, most people with functioning neurons understand that the race/sex of the office doesn't always correspond to whether or not they will abuse their power; there are truly great cops or every race and there are horrible cops that abuse their power of every race. Corruption is color blind.
Then should police departments mirror the demographic make up of the community that they police?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 20:48:29
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: ScootyPuffJunior wrote:White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
Also, most people with functioning neurons understand that the race/sex of the office doesn't always correspond to whether or not they will abuse their power; there are truly great cops or every race and there are horrible cops that abuse their power of every race. Corruption is color blind.
Then should police departments mirror the demographic make up of the community that they police?
People seem to think so, given that there have been serious pushes in just about every major metropolitan area to do exactly that.
All humans are tribal, there is no way around it. It's in our very nature, which is why we fear "outsiders" and why "othering" a political opponent is so effective. When you live in a community of people that look like you, act like you, and have similar backgrounds just like you, it's easy to see why someone coming into that community that has nothing in common with you and treating you like gak can foster distrust.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 00:10:32
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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Interesting article: Basically Internet trolls tweeting fake 'looting' pics and statuses to troll or create outrage. And a lot of these tweets are being taken seriously and have even made news outlets after being proven fake.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/trolls-are-posing-as-baltimore-looters-online?utm_source=mbtwitter
The danger with these kinds of tweets being taken seriously is that they serve as a perfect excuse for people essentially insulated from the effects of over-policing and police murder, either by virtue of their geographic location or ethnic heritage, to demonize protesters and rioters in Baltimore, as they did in Ferguson last year.
Other things is there are a number of 'Fake' photos out there what are called "Crisis Actors" who go out and stage a photo op in order to prove a narrative and then sell those photos to news outlets. Some of the major iconic photos are being proven to be frauds. (Like White woman being robbed by looters)
It seems like there are a bunch of Cyberwarriors both working for and against the situation... Some with good intentions, some explicitly trying to cause people harm and spread misinformation and fake stories.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 00:47:50
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote: ScootyPuffJunior wrote:White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
Also, most people with functioning neurons understand that the race/sex of the office doesn't always correspond to whether or not they will abuse their power; there are truly great cops or every race and there are horrible cops that abuse their power of every race. Corruption is color blind.
Then should police departments mirror the demographic make up of the community that they police?
People seem to think so, given that there have been serious pushes in just about every major metropolitan area to do exactly that.
All humans are tribal, there is no way around it. It's in our very nature, which is why we fear "outsiders" and why "othering" a political opponent is so effective. When you live in a community of people that look like you, act like you, and have similar backgrounds just like you, it's easy to see why someone coming into that community that has nothing in common with you and treating you like gak can foster distrust.
Very good points, which brings me back to the narrative of the Ferguson troubles, blaming them on a conservative, white city council and white police force. The general wisdom was that if it was a mix of colors and a liberal political party in charge, there would not have been any issues.
Baltimore has blown that theory out of the water, which makes what you said about tribalism seem all the more accurate.
As far as racially charged words, in my area of the country the text book definition of thug still applies and having people be scared to use it for fear of offending a group seems silly. I understand YMMV in this, but when you see people writing the "n word" in place of the real word it seems as silly, when you consider everyone knows what is meant, as though eliminating a couple of vowels and consonants makes it somehow more acceptable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/03 00:57:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 01:07:01
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote:People seem to think so, given that there have been serious pushes in just about every major metropolitan area to do exactly that.
Based on what evidence?
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:All humans are tribal, there is no way around it. It's in our very nature, which is why we fear "outsiders" and why "othering" a political opponent is so effective. When you live in a community of people that look like you, act like you, and have similar backgrounds just like you, it's easy to see why someone coming into that community that has nothing in common with you and treating you like gak can foster distrust.
So should communities only be policed by officers "just like" them?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 01:08:55
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I think it's a little difficult to say with a straight face that the word thug hasn't become, in some contexts, the socially acceptable version of the N word.
I think if you look at how seldom that word is used to describe, say, white kids rioting because their hockey team lost.. it's pretty self evident.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 01:14:23
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ouze wrote:I think it's a little difficult to say with a straight face that the word thug hasn't become, in some contexts, the socially acceptable version of the N word.
I think if you look at how seldom that word is used to describe, say, white kids rioting because their hockey team lost.. it's pretty self evident.
People don't apply the term thug to angry white hockey fans because "thug life" has never been about ice hockey. But a white guy who sells drugs, bullies people, and responds to every perceived slight against him with violence would certainly fit the bill.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 01:16:39
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Ouze wrote:I think it's a little difficult to say with a straight face that the word thug hasn't become, in some contexts, the socially acceptable version of the N word.
I think if you look at how seldom that word is used to describe, say, white kids rioting because their hockey team lost.. it's pretty self evident.
"Based on the best information we had the following morning, we stated that the instigators among the mob were 'criminals, anarchists and thugs who came to town bent on destruction and mayhem'
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-police-shift-blame-for-riot-1.995380
From riots conducted by a predominantly white crowd after a hockey game.
And this picture obviously uses the word thug in a racial context, as can be seen by the over whelming number of Caucasians in the crowd
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/03 01:22:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 01:21:03
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
But what is their applicant pool like? I feel like 47% is pretty damn good....
With Baltimore it's been even more discussed the fact that very few of their officers actually live within the city:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/most-baltimore-police-officers-live-outside-the-city/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:00:12
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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As I said earlier, regardless of color, where I live, that word applies to anyone that performs illegal and destructive acts, ie, union or anti union, depending on what side of the fence you're on, nazi brown shirts, rioters, looters, strong arm robbers, etc,
It appears the the "T" word was adapted by rappers to designate a type of Black person:
http://www.newsweek.com/brief-history-word-thug-326595
This comment is close to my thoughts:
"The world is filled with people who want to divert the attention of what is truly happening by altering the language to bend it according to their agenda with pure ignorance if not just plain stupidity. Uneducated and they don't have the gumption to look up a word in a dictionary and yet they want to advocate what is moral."
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/03 02:11:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:00:21
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: Ouze wrote:I think it's a little difficult to say with a straight face that the word thug hasn't become, in some contexts, the socially acceptable version of the N word.
I think if you look at how seldom that word is used to describe, say, white kids rioting because their hockey team lost.. it's pretty self evident.
"Based on the best information we had the following morning, we stated that the instigators among the mob were 'criminals, anarchists and thugs who came to town bent on destruction and mayhem'
Yes, that is why I didn't say "no white people have ever been called a thug, ever", FFS - 2/10
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/03 02:00:58
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:02:55
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ouze wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote: Ouze wrote:I think it's a little difficult to say with a straight face that the word thug hasn't become, in some contexts, the socially acceptable version of the N word.
I think if you look at how seldom that word is used to describe, say, white kids rioting because their hockey team lost.. it's pretty self evident.
"Based on the best information we had the following morning, we stated that the instigators among the mob were 'criminals, anarchists and thugs who came to town bent on destruction and mayhem'
Yes, that is why I didn't say "no white people have ever been called a thug, ever", FFS - 2/10
So the term thug isn't racist except when applied to blacks?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:03:25
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I'm past trying to explain the concept of context to the intentionally obtuse. My fault - it was stupid of me to have forgotten where I was for a second.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/03 02:03:52
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:05:42
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Ouze wrote:I'm past trying to explain the concept of context to the intentionally obtuse. My fault - it was stupid of me to have forgotten where I was for a second.
I don't think you're wrong.
I struggle with the word because you're right, it's become code for the "n word" for some people. The problem is the rest of us that don't mean it as code but rather wish to use it for its actual meaning.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:16:36
Subject: Re:Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Ouze wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote: Ouze wrote:I think it's a little difficult to say with a straight face that the word thug hasn't become, in some contexts, the socially acceptable version of the N word.
I think if you look at how seldom that word is used to describe, say, white kids rioting because their hockey team lost.. it's pretty self evident.
"Based on the best information we had the following morning, we stated that the instigators among the mob were 'criminals, anarchists and thugs who came to town bent on destruction and mayhem'
Yes, that is why I didn't say "no white people have ever been called a thug, ever", FFS - 2/10
Good thing I did not equate that argument to you then isn't it? But if you want to ignore me pointing out examples of where white people have been called "thug" then you are at liberty to do so.
Now that we have established that white people engaged in criminal behaviour get called thugs, and that black people who engage in criminal behaviour get called thugs, and even Asians involved in criminal activity get called thugs then under what circumstances does the word "thug" become racial rather than just a descriptive word of behaviour?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:17:09
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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cincydooley wrote: ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
But what is their applicant pool like? I feel like 47% is pretty damn good....
With Baltimore it's been even more discussed the fact that very few of their officers actually live within the city:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/most-baltimore-police-officers-live-outside-the-city/
47% is a decent number, but you hit the nail on the head with the applicant pool question.
I do think that it is important that a police force mirrors the community it serves. A police department is part of the community and it is not an occupying force. I think that even extends to the issue of officers not living in the city they serve. The community should see themselves when they look at their police, and the officers should see themselves when they look at their community. But the big question is "how do you achieve that". A department shouldn't throw out the top 25 applicants just to hire less qualified people that "look" like the community, which brings us to your question: what is the applicant pool like, and how do you encourage qualified members of the community to apply?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:42:05
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Fixture of Dakka
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d-usa wrote: cincydooley wrote: ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
White officers make up 50% of the department (while 28% of Baltimore residents are white) and black officers make up 47% of the department (while 64% of Baltimore residents are black). That is the disparity that people have been talking about; police department don't represent the people they are supposed to serve, leading to a disconnect among the residents (aided by abuses of power like illegal traffic stops, illegal arrests, and the incidents that we keep talking about in this forum).
But what is their applicant pool like? I feel like 47% is pretty damn good....
With Baltimore it's been even more discussed the fact that very few of their officers actually live within the city:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/most-baltimore-police-officers-live-outside-the-city/
47% is a decent number, but you hit the nail on the head with the applicant pool question.
I do think that it is important that a police force mirrors the community it serves. A police department is part of the community and it is not an occupying force. I think that even extends to the issue of officers not living in the city they serve. he community should see themselves when they look at their police, and the officers should see themselves when they look at their community. But the big question is "how do you achieve that". A department shouldn't throw out the top 25 applicants just to hire less qualified people that "look" like the community, which brings us to your question: what is the applicant pool like, and how do you encourage qualified members of the community to apply?
That is both an excellent thought (although I take some issue with the occupying army statement) as well as the million dollar question. It would be interesting to look at any studies done to see how communities view police that grew up in the neighborhood vs. outsiders that come in.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 02:46:27
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Based on the fact that cities purposely try to get people that members of their community actively involved in policing, whether it's through actually hiring them using diversification strategies or creating community oversight committees. Here's an idea: fething Google it. I know the internet is hard, but give it a try. ScootyPuffJunior wrote:All humans are tribal, there is no way around it. It's in our very nature, which is why we fear "outsiders" and why "othering" a political opponent is so effective. When you live in a community of people that look like you, act like you, and have similar backgrounds just like you, it's easy to see why someone coming into that community that has nothing in common with you and treating you like gak can foster distrust.
So should communities only be policed by officers "just like" them?
Well, if you knew anything about the history of humankind, you would know that that is our default setting; it's instinctive to us. I'm not saying one way or another, which is what you are trying to trap me with, merely explaining the way that we are. You want opinions? Turn on cable news. I'm explaining some pretty basic human psychology here, not telling you I have all the answers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/03 02:46:56
d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/03 03:18:55
Subject: Rioters "given space to destroy"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Neither should substantiating your own point. The whole point of any discussion if the flow and exchange of ideas. If you cannot or will not substantiate your argument then that hinders this underlying principal.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/03 03:20:50
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