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It seems like an ideal way to buff their power level and is keeping in line with their role as heavy infantry. See Meganobz, Centurions and Obliterators which all work.

Pros :
- Makes weapon selection against them more nuanced, as it now matters if you shoot them with a plasma or a meltagun, a krak missile or an autocannon.
- Doesn't require changes in the models, they can keep their crappy stormbolters and such.
- Ties in with their role as deep strikers who come in, get shot with everything and maybe assault something if they live.
- Makes their strongest asset, their saves, more valuable, and their second strongest, their close combat capabilities, more possible to use without speeding them up.
- Is not like FNP which is save stacking and time consuming.

Cons :
- Having lots of 2+/5++ save wounds can be irritating to deal with some armies.
- What happens to Paladins and such?

What do you think? Just have it an universal "Terminator Armour +1 wound?".

I think if they gave all Terminators +1T and +1W it might make them less overpriced. I think something to lower AP2's effectiveness against them would be good. I don't know what exactly could be done, maybe give them 1+ to their Invulnerable save against AP2. Would make Hammernators pretty tough and Terminator Captains would effectively have a free Storm Shield against AP2.

All terminators get free cml and chaos gets 2 shot hml.

 Filch wrote:
All terminators get free cml and chaos gets 2 shot hml.

Can't tell if you're serious or not.

OP: There have been a great number of threads on this discussion already, probably best to have a look through them first.

But this should be revisited after the new bar GW has set with the Eldar codex. If 27 pts gets you a scatterbike, 40 pts should get you something really nice!

Martel732 wrote:
But this should be revisited after the new bar GW has set with the Eldar codex. If 27 pts gets you a scatterbike, 40 pts should get you something really nice!

Wait, 27 pts?! 40 pts should get you FNP 2+, a 4++ Inv, 2++ Inv with a Storm Shield, and WS5/BS5.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But this should be revisited after the new bar GW has set with the Eldar codex. If 27 pts gets you a scatterbike, 40 pts should get you something really nice!

Wait, 27 pts?! 40 pts should get you FNP 2+, a 4++ Inv, 2++ Inv with a Storm Shield, and WS5/BS5.

And they'd still lose to scatterbikes because of 36" range.

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But this should be revisited after the new bar GW has set with the Eldar codex. If 27 pts gets you a scatterbike, 40 pts should get you something really nice!

Wait, 27 pts?! 40 pts should get you FNP 2+, a 4++ Inv, 2++ Inv with a Storm Shield, and WS5/BS5.

And they'd still lose to scatterbikes because of 36" range.

Make Storm Bolters 36" range.

More terminator each with free cml and hml trumps scatter bikes.

 Filch wrote:
More terminator each with free cml and hml trumps scatter bikes.

Again, you must either be a troll or have no idea how to balance units.

 Rautakanki wrote:
It seems like an ideal way to buff their power level and is keeping in line with their role as heavy infantry. See Meganobz, Centurions and Obliterators which all work.

Pros :
- Makes weapon selection against them more nuanced, as it now matters if you shoot them with a plasma or a meltagun, a krak missile or an autocannon.
- Doesn't require changes in the models, they can keep their crappy stormbolters and such.
- Ties in with their role as deep strikers who come in, get shot with everything and maybe assault something if they live.
- Makes their strongest asset, their saves, more valuable, and their second strongest, their close combat capabilities, more possible to use without speeding them up.
- Is not like FNP which is save stacking and time consuming.

Cons :
- Having lots of 2+/5++ save wounds can be irritating to deal with some armies.
- What happens to Paladins and such?

What do you think? Just have it an universal "Terminator Armour +1 wound?".

What do Meganobs and paladins get?

Three wounds?

In that case, what do Tyranid Warriors, Ogryns, and Wraithguards (TEQs in a strange, roundabout way) get?

And then what do the TMCs get now that warriors have as many wounds as Carnifexes and Tyrants?

 Kain wrote:

 Rautakanki wrote:
It seems like an ideal way to buff their power level and is keeping in line with their role as heavy infantry. See Meganobz, Centurions and Obliterators which all work.

Pros :
- Makes weapon selection against them more nuanced, as it now matters if you shoot them with a plasma or a meltagun, a krak missile or an autocannon.
- Doesn't require changes in the models, they can keep their crappy stormbolters and such.
- Ties in with their role as deep strikers who come in, get shot with everything and maybe assault something if they live.
- Makes their strongest asset, their saves, more valuable, and their second strongest, their close combat capabilities, more possible to use without speeding them up.
- Is not like FNP which is save stacking and time consuming.

Cons :
- Having lots of 2+/5++ save wounds can be irritating to deal with some armies.
- What happens to Paladins and such?

What do you think? Just have it an universal "Terminator Armour +1 wound?".

What do Meganobs and paladins get?

Three wounds?

In that case, what do Tyranid Warriors, Ogryns, and Wraithguards (TEQs in a strange, roundabout way) get?

And then what do the TMCs get now that warriors have as many wounds as Carnifexes and Tyrants?

Simples. More wounds. Welcome to Oprah Winfrey 40K!!!

"You get a wound. And you get a wound. Everybody gets a wound!"

I agree.

Ahh yes, another thread to make termies better. I think 35ppm and JUST +1 W would make them more worth it. Oh, and +1 to invuln against AP2, unless they have storm shields. 2++ is a bit ridiculous.

30ppm with power swords and 4++ base, two special weapons per five guys in tactical Terminator squads. Done.

Give them a special ability that allows them to assault after deep-striking and add an additional wound. Maybe even give them additional wargear options.

the stats are good as is.....just adjust points

Letting them hit at initiative would be good.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Letting them hit at initiative would be good.

Even if this wasn't the case, maybe saying their initiative can never drop below 2 or 3. Slower than marines that don't have an unwieldy weapon, still faster than non-melee focused units.

If MANz is the comparison by which this logic is made then I would suggest balancing the buff by giving the new Termies Slow and Purposeful, or remove the Slow and Purposeful from the MANz. 3 wounds works too, they are already 40ppm so it doesn't need adjusting since your new Termie idea outghta be better and cheaper.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Filch wrote:
More terminator each with free cml and hml trumps scatter bikes.

Again, you must either be a troll or have no idea how to balance units.

Are you kidding me?
Are you serious?

GW is the biggest troll ever! They make stuff OP and un-balanced to sell it.

 Filch wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Filch wrote:
More terminator each with free cml and hml trumps scatter bikes.

Again, you must either be a troll or have no idea how to balance units.

Are you kidding me?
Are you serious?

GW is the biggest troll ever! They make stuff OP and un-balanced to sell it.

But scatterbikes still pay for their guns.... every time a unit gets better guns it pays for them.... giving an entire squad a 25 point weapon you can't possibly think it reasonable to give it for free, as terminators are now 15 points without one. Either you didn't consider that for whatever reason, or you're trolling.

Would changing Storm Bolters to 36" Str 4, AP 4, 2/4 Salvo help Terminators out?

 Filch wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Filch wrote:
More terminator each with free cml and hml trumps scatter bikes.

Again, you must either be a troll or have no idea how to balance units.

Are you kidding me?
Are you serious?

GW is the biggest troll ever! They make stuff OP and un-balanced to sell it.

HEY!!!

Do NOT insult GW!!!

Nah, I think Terminator should have a rule that makes their Int always count as the usual 4. Then they'd have Str8 AP2 without unwieldy which is quite unique instead of just more wounds w2hich would make them just cheaper Centurions.

Oh, and free plasma guns for deathwing.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would changing Storm Bolters to 36" Str 4, AP 4, 2/4 Salvo help Terminators out?

Not especially; S4 firepower is already easily attainable across Marine armies of all varieties, and this change would also be a major nerf to any non-Relentless models armed with Stormbolters, like Marines/Sisters characters, Sisters special weapons, and PAGKs.

I have written much on the follies of Salvo Stormbolters, and most Salvo weapons in general, so I won't bother to do so yet again. It'd just be a huge wall of text and I don't think many people would actually read it. In general, Salvo weapons work when they offer tremendous increase in RoF, even when moving. Splinter Cannons are basically the poster child of a good Salvo weapon, while Psycannons are the poster child of bad ones, with Grav-guns and HSVGs falling somewhere in the middle. That is, however, in consideration of non-Relentless models; Salvo becomes irrelevant if you're Relentless/SnP, which means GKTs and GravBikers might as well be armed with Heavy weapons for all the difference it'd make.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would changing Storm Bolters to 36" Str 4, AP 4, 2/4 Salvo help Terminators out?

No, because S4 shooting is awful.

 Kain wrote:


What do Meganobs and paladins get?

Three wounds?

In that case, what do Tyranid Warriors, Ogryns, and Wraithguards (TEQs in a strange, roundabout way) get?

And then what do the TMCs get now that warriors have as many wounds as Carnifexes and Tyrants?

I don't know, but it's not related directly to how Terminators can be buffed, other than Paladins who are Terminators too, already 2w and apparently decent.

I don't see why WG or TMC need any buffs. If all Tyranid players only take a bunch of warriors when (if) they have +1W then... Whatever? Now nobody takes them but everybody takes MC's.

Whiskey144 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would changing Storm Bolters to 36" Str 4, AP 4, 2/4 Salvo help Terminators out?

this change would also be a major nerf to any non-Relentless models armed with Stormbolters, like Marines/Sisters characters, Sisters special weapons, and PAGKs.

Actually this time no, no it wouldn't be a nerf. I've seen you write volumes about similar situations, but this particular example should not be called that.

Rautakanki wrote:

 Kain wrote:


What do Meganobs and paladins get?

Three wounds?

In that case, what do Tyranid Warriors, Ogryns, and Wraithguards (TEQs in a strange, roundabout way) get?

And then what do the TMCs get now that warriors have as many wounds as Carnifexes and Tyrants?

I don't know, but it's not related directly to how Terminators can be buffed, other than Paladins who are Terminators too, already 2w and apparently decent.

I don't see why WG or TMC need any buffs. If all Tyranid players only take a bunch of warriors when (if) they have +1W then... Whatever? Now nobody takes them but everybody takes MC's.

Huh, I assumed this thread would be one where you never replied after the OP.

Well if y ya'll get a second wound I call sounds on and they shall know no fear, and 5++ on our regular megas, and 3++ on our kill saw ones and you can keep our bs, we'll keep our extra attack. And lets both get a 5ppm decrease. Deal?


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Oh and you can have slow and purposeful too