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 Redcruisair wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Star Craft had some decent moments.......... mostly when they where shamelessly borrowing from GW

And what are these things StarCraft have "shamelessly" borrowed from 40K? Please do go ahead and tell me. I'm very curious to hear what you think about it.

Zerg, especially in the second game, are a clean rip of Tyranids.

I mean it's pretty clear there are strong similarities between SC and 40K. I've been into both in equal measure for some time so not going to fanboy either.

But looking at the Zerg aesthetics and some of the Terran/Protoss feel, it can be pretty easy to see where they took creative queues from. Nothing wrong with that, all art find inspiration somewhere. But it's silly to think SC did not borrow anything from 40K.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Star Craft had some decent moments.......... mostly when they where shamelessly borrowing from GW

And what are these things StarCraft have "shamelessly" borrowed from 40K? Please do go ahead and tell me. I'm very curious to hear what you think about it.

Zerg, especially in the second game, are a clean rip of Tyranids.

Yeah no. if you’re real smart, then you would do well to rethink your statement. You can’t “rip” the concept of hive-like aliens from GW, because that was never GW's idea to begin with.

Besides, this is what Tyranids looked like when the first Starcraft game was released. You clamming that the Zerg are a direct rip of Tyranids, is an insult to the former. I mean just take look at those Tyranid models… they look like inbreed dinosaurs!

I would call the Tyranid-Zerg relationship an incestuous one. The Tyranids begot the Zerg which then, in turn, begot the modern Tyranids.

 clamclaw wrote:
But it's silly to think SC did not borrow anything from 40K.

It’s not silly at all to think so. You could just as easily say that the idea of Terrans in “power armor” came from Starship Troopers and that the Zerg were inspired by the Xenomorphs from the Alien franchise, rather than the Tyranids.

See what I mean?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I would call the Tyranid-Zerg relationship an incestuous one. The Tyranids begot the Zerg which then, in turn, begot the modern Tyranids.

That’s a fair way to look at it. Indeed when you think about for a sec, the Ravener e.g. is just an Hydralisk with a pair of extra arms and a different head.

Big name science fiction factions are very circuitous in how they rip each other off endlessly.

Star wars will rip off Star craft which will rip off Warhammer which will rip off Star Trek which will rip off Transformers which will rip off (and so on so fortha d infinitum).

It's not quite as incestuous as medieval fantasy which has all been born of the union of Dungeons and Dragons having kinky sex with its mother Lord of the Rings and its dad Conan in a messy threesome and assorted inbreeding.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I would call the Tyranid-Zerg relationship an incestuous one. The Tyranids begot the Zerg which then, in turn, begot the modern Tyranids.

The thing is, I've no doubt Starcraft is largerly inspired by 40K, but the original Zerg design and its backstory was rather different from the way they are in 2nd Edition 40K.
Zerg, from the outset, had a physical hivemind entity known as the Overmind, under it many nodes known as the cerebates serve as transmitters and generals (who each had different individuality from another). Also from the start the Zerg were confirmed creations of the Old OnesXel'Nagas and was only looking to absorb the Protoss after eating their creators.
Matter of fact, the irony is that while both settings are heavily influenced by Heinlein's Starship Troopers, Starcraft perhaps did influence the movie more than the book did. From the way the brain bugs looked like and in the 3rd movie (which, while is admittingly gak, is still an improvement from the second one) the God Bug thing. I guess at least they showed the suits in that movie, sort of.
I mean, that's just how pop culture works, they merge and mingle, until one day you can tell them apart.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Star Craft had some decent moments.......... mostly when they where shamelessly borrowing from GW

And what are these things StarCraft have "shamelessly" borrowed from 40K? Please do go ahead and tell me. I'm very curious to hear what you think about it.

Zerg, especially in the second game, are a clean rip of Tyranids.

Yeah no. if you’re real smart, then you would do well to rethink your statement. You can’t “rip” the concept of hive-like aliens from GW, because that was never GW's idea to begin with.

Besides, this is what Tyranids looked like when the first Starcraft game was released. You clamming that the Zerg are a direct rip of Tyranids, is an insult to the former. I mean just take look at those Tyranid models… they look like inbreed dinosaurs!

Actually no, this is what Tyranids looked like when Star Craft was released.



The funny thing is how people always use the old third edition model defence against claims of Star Craft ripping off Tyranids, when in reality models such as these existed.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 clamclaw wrote:
But it's silly to think SC did not borrow anything from 40K.

It’s not silly at all to think so. You could just as easily say that the idea of Terrans in “power armor” came from Starship Troopers and that the Zerg were inspired by the Xenomorphs from the Alien franchise, rather than the Tyranids.

See what I mean?

Not really, because I would absolutely agree that 40K also takes a lot of influence from their contemporary sci-fi counterparts. It's not to say it makes either unoriginal, but you can see where there is references and cross-over in some of the design.

It's why we end up with more defined genres, instead of a whole lot of wacky off the wall styles. People tend to like certain aesthetics for their respective fantasy/sci-fi races, it gives us something recognizable, but sometimes with a new twist.

@Wyzilla The Original Starcraft came out in 1998, Tyranid third edition came out 2001. What you got there is a 3rd Edition Tyranid Warrior/hive tyrant (whose head bone structure also look kind like the Queen from Aliens).
The TW image RedCruiser provided is indeed the 2nd edition as according to DakkaDakka's Thread on Coddex: Tyranid 2nd Edition. Worth noting are of the following images:


Against the Hydralisk in the Original Starcraft:

Wyzilla. That picture is from the 3rd edtion Tyranids codex, which wasn't published until 2001, Starcraft was published in 1998.

Regardles, the thing looks nothing like what Zerg had back in 1998, so just concede that your claim was false and move on already.


Edit: beaten to the punch. Good work on finding that info Icmiracle

 Redcruisair wrote:
Wyzilla. That picture is from the 3rd edtion Tyranids codex, which wasn't published until 2001, Starcraft was published in 1998.

Regardles, the thing looks nothing like what Zerg had back in 1998, so just concede that your claim was false and move on already.


Edit: beaten to the punch. Good work on finding that info Icmiracle

I distinctly remember some 3rd edition model being leaked at the very least earlier. There's definitely one metal model released at the same time as Starcraft, I'll go look up the discussion with White Rabbit on Spacebattles.

Hydralisk's share very little with 40K, though when I think of similarities I'm thinking Zerglings and the overall bug/carapace/engorged venom sac look they all share. It's a common theme for space alien insect baddies, but that's my point is they all share and borrow these themes.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I distinctly remember some 3rd edition model being leaked at the very least earlier. There's definitely one metal model released at the same time as Starcraft, I'll go look up the discussion with White Rabbit on Spacebattles.

Though, how earlier are we talking about here? 1 year, 2 years? Do take into the account that Blizzard Entertainment began development on StarCraft in 1995. So that means the 3rd edition Tyranid models had to be leaked at least somewhere around 5-6 years prior to the 3rd edition codex, for them to even be a possible inspiration to the Zerg. Yeah I don’t think that’s possible.

 clamclaw wrote:
Hydralisk's share very little with 40K, though when I think of similarities I'm thinking Zerglings and the overall bug/carapace/engorged venom sac look they all share. It's a common theme for space alien insect baddies, but that's my point is they all share and borrow these themes.

Fun fact: where I'm from the Zerglings are nicknamed "puppies" because back in Brood War, when SC was all the RAAGGEE in China, the Zerglings looked like this:

A quadrupedal animal that seemingly cannot look up; I suppose they are closer to frogs, seeing how both pairs of their limbs move in unison. But the way they attacked also looked like dogs barking, so...

Anyways, it is my opinion that Starcraft uses only a small portion from 40K, that is, aesthetics; their settings, as far as Space Opera goes, are distinctive enough to set them apart.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I distinctly remember some 3rd edition model being leaked at the very least earlier. There's definitely one metal model released at the same time as Starcraft, I'll go look up the discussion with White Rabbit on Spacebattles.

Though, how earlier are we talking about here? 1 year, 2 years? Due take into the account that Blizzard Entertainment began development on StarCraft in 1995. So that means the 3rd edition Tyranid models had to be leaked at least somewhere around 5-6 years prior to the 3rd edition codex, for them to even be a possible inspiration to the Zerg. Yeah I don’t think that’s possible.

Found the discussion, rather it's that Tyranids and Zerg split separate ways, both of them ripping off xenomorphs and some D&D rock lizard. Although the original zergling looks a lot like the 2nd edition models, especially the gaunts. However it's with Starcraft 2 that you can see Blizzard copying stuff from the Carnifex for the Ultralisk.

Good lord these names are twisting my fingers.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Found the discussion, rather it's that Tyranids and Zerg split separate ways, both of them ripping off xenomorphs and some D&D rock lizard.

I agree. Well, except for the ripping part. It has to be a near match before I consider something to be ripped.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Although the original zergling looks a lot like the 2nd edition models, especially the gaunts.

Yes, Gaunts and Zerglings feel much the same, but it hardly matters since they’re both derived from the mindless hive worker trope, a common theme within sci-fi.

 Wyzilla wrote:
However it's with Starcraft 2 that you can see Blizzard copying stuff from the Carnifex for the Ultralisk.

What, for real? Are you refereeing to those special abilities the Ultralisk could get acces to in the campaign mode? pls elaborate more on this good sir.

The Ultralisk looks like an insect mammoth, the Carnifex looks like a beetle dinosaur.

They look quite different IMO.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Found the discussion, rather it's that Tyranids and Zerg split separate ways, both of them ripping off xenomorphs and some D&D rock lizard.

I agree. Well, except for the ripping part. It has to be a near match before I consider something to be ripped.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Although the original zergling looks a lot like the 2nd edition models, especially the gaunts.

Yes, Gaunts and Zerglings feel much the same, but it hardly matters since they’re both derived from the mindless hive worker trope, a common theme within sci-fi.

 Wyzilla wrote:
However it's with Starcraft 2 that you can see Blizzard copying stuff from the Carnifex for the Ultralisk.

What, for real? Are you refereeing to those special abilities the Ultralisk could get acces to in the campaign mode? pls elaborate more on this good sir.

No, I mean the ginormous mandibles. Reminds quite a lot of the old 2nd Edition Carnifex come to think of it.

Honestly, if anything, the Ultralisk reminds me more of a big, angry stag beetle.

Behold gentlemen! I represent onto you the true progenitor to the old school Ultralisk and Cranifex.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Kerrigan's design is oversexualised, otherwise she's entirely fine.

She’s not fine in HOTS. Blizzard has completely ruined her character.

I have played the whole campaign for Starcraft, Brood War and Wings of Liberty, but only the first missions of Hearth of the Swarm. What happens to her?

 Wyzilla wrote:
However it's with Starcraft 2 that you can see Blizzard copying stuff from the Carnifex for the Ultralisk.

But both already existed when Starcraft, the original, was released !

Enough with Zergs/Nids. What about mouthless Protos and Eldars? These two races have too many similarities. All at all Warhammer was created long time before Starcraft.

Saw people compare Protoss with Tau as well. Their architecture seem to match.

The Protos have more in common with the Covenant and Forerunners from the Halo series IMO than they do with warhammer

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
The Protos have more in common with the Covenant and Forerunners from the Halo series IMO than they do with warhammer

Halo wasn't even being drawn up when Starcraft came out.

True. Which is why you can say that they "borrowed" ideas from Starcraft.

Jendi wrote:
Enough with Zergs/Nids. What about mouthless Protos and Eldars? These two races have too many similarities. All at all Warhammer was created long time before Starcraft.

The Eldar are high elves in space. Protoss are green martians with dreadlocks and doom lasers. These two races are not comparable in any way.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

She’s not fine in HOTS. Blizzard has completely ruined her character.

I have played the whole campaign for Starcraft, Brood War and Wings of Liberty, but only the first missions of Hearth of the Swarm. What happens to her?

There are 3 major reasons as to why Kerrigan sucks in HOTS.

1: Kerrigan’s feelings towards Raynor are unnecessarily expanded upon in HOTS, to the point where she comes across as a confused and love-struck schoolgirl.
It also doesn’t help that her romance plot with Raynor is as convincing as Annakin’s fall to the Dark side.

2: Kerrigan’s character is inconsistent. At one point Kerrigan makes a cold but calculated move by killing off an entire Protoss colony so that she can avoid detection by Artanis and his bros, but in another instance she does the reverse by holding her forces back so that the civilian population of Korhal can be evacuated before the Zerg makes planet fall, and as consequence of this decision, Mengsk gains valuable time to prepare for Kerrigan’s attack.

3: Kerrigan used to be the self-described “Queen Bitch of the Universe” and supreme mustache twirling badass. She’s none of those things in HOTS.
Now she only wants to kill Mengsk’ and some god that screwed around with her mind. And that’s about it. No really, that’s it. The rest of universe have nothing to fear from the Zerg since they’re among the good guys now *pukes*.

3: Kerrigan used to be the self-described “Queen Bitch of the Universe” and supreme mustache twirling badass. She’s none of those things in HOTS.
Now she only wants to kill Mengsk’ and some god that screwed around with her mind. And that’s about it. No really, that’s it. The rest of universe have nothing to fear from the Zerg since they’re among the good guys now *pukes*.

sounds like blizzard's typical "let's take the undisputable bad guys in our game and make them sympathetic good guys" it's part of why WC3 was "bleh" to me

 Redcruisair wrote:

Jendi wrote:
Enough with Zergs/Nids. What about mouthless Protos and Eldars? These two races have too many similarities. All at all Warhammer was created long time before Starcraft.

The Eldar are high elves in space. Protoss are green martians with dreadlocks and doom lasers. These two races are not comparable in any way.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

She’s not fine in HOTS. Blizzard has completely ruined her character.

I have played the whole campaign for Starcraft, Brood War and Wings of Liberty, but only the first missions of Hearth of the Swarm. What happens to her?

There are 3 major reasons as to why Kerrigan sucks in HOTS.

1: Kerrigan’s feelings towards Raynor are unnecessarily expanded upon in HOTS, to the point where she comes across as a confused and love-struck schoolgirl.
It also doesn’t help that her romance plot with Raynor is as convincing as Annakin’s fall to the Dark side.

2: Kerrigan’s character is inconsistent. At one point Kerrigan makes a cold but calculated move by killing off an entire Protoss colony so that she can avoid detection by Artanis and his bros, but in another instance she does the reverse by holding her forces back so that the civilian population of Korhal can be evacuated before the Zerg makes planet fall, and as consequence of this decision, Mengsk gains valuable time to prepare for Kerrigan’s attack.

3: Kerrigan used to be the self-described “Queen Bitch of the Universe” and supreme mustache twirling badass. She’s none of those things in HOTS.
Now she only wants to kill Mengsk’ and some god that screwed around with her mind. And that’s about it. No really, that’s it. The rest of universe have nothing to fear from the Zerg since they’re among the good guys now *pukes*.

Ah so Heart of the Swarm hit Kerrigan like Other M hit Samus Aran.

Pretty much.

It also made me want to punch Raynor in the face... at this point, the only Starcraft character I really like is Nova.