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 Leth wrote:
It will be interesting to see what happens to marines, chapter tactics, and their decurion style formations. Hopefully they make tacs worth taking.....

Unfortunately I think the Codex Astartes fluff is going to bite marine players in the butt. Nearly every Power Armor formation in the game right now is simply too expensive to run, because most of them require multiple ten man squads. The new formations from the Khorne vs. Ultras are INSANE, but so expensive that you shouldn't expect to field them outside of Apocalpyse games.

There is no such thing as apoc now; it's just all normal fluffy 40k with narratives about balanced gretchins versus titan fights, dontchyaknow? It fits in exactly with what they've been doing. Nobody buys vypers? You can make them better or you can make them mandatory in every formation. Guess which one GW chose? They've been focusing the rules on bigger and bigger purchases for several years now.

Meh, if they start to make certain upgrades free or cheap(like in the eldar book) or vastly easier to access, or even just more versatile within the book as well as more even chapter tactics I will be happy. Especially if there is a deathwatch book near the same time

Deathwatch is tailor made for a $40 supplement with one real entry and, if we're lucky, a couple of variants. In the age of bite sized but full priced 40k, I really doubt they'd introduce them into a codex for "free".

Never said it would be, but if they continue with the knight idea where they throw an extra sprue into a box for a new kit, like a stern guard + deathwatch sprue and a 33 doll book(little ones are actually cheaper now) I would be soooooo happy. We saw them do it with the space wolves for all their kits

Or something like the aspect warriors formation where it's choices from the first company.

How cool would having the specialist companies getting formations like eldar did? Devastator, assault, scout, first etc. captain required probably with chapter master being an alternate choice. So on and so forth. Sounds exciteing

I bet we will see some of the old formations reborn( like the storm raven+ storm talon one)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why would we need a new Dev Squad kit?

Probably has a lot of weapon options but only one marine, so you have to buy 5 boxes to make a squad!

 warboss wrote:
It fits in exactly with what they've been doing. Nobody buys vypers? You can make them better or you can make them mandatory in every formation. Guess which one GW chose? They've been focusing the rules on bigger and bigger purchases for several years now.

Yes its easy to get cynical about how they build formations to increase sales, but IMO its a better
tactic than removing the slow selling units from the stores, making them even more unavailable
And on the other hand, you could see it as a way to make people buy armies of more mixed and fluffy units instead of spamming.
Not saying that is GWs intent, but its the practical consequence.
After all, it would be strange if the formations just spammed the cheese and also gave it some formation bonus.
And in the end, "formations" is just one optional way to build an army. For example, no one have to run vypers just because they want to play eldar.

 Fayric wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It fits in exactly with what they've been doing. Nobody buys vypers? You can make them better or you can make them mandatory in every formation. Guess which one GW chose? They've been focusing the rules on bigger and bigger purchases for several years now.

Yes its easy to get cynical about how they build formations to increase sales, but IMO its a better
tactic than removing the slow selling units from the stores, making them even more unavailable
And on the other hand, you could see it as a way to make people buy armies of more mixed and fluffy units instead of spamming.
Not saying that is GWs intent, but its the practical consequence.
After all, it would be strange if the formations just spammed the cheese and also gave it some formation bonus.
And in the end, "formations" is just one optional way to build an army. For example, no one have to run vypers just because they want to play eldar.

This ^

You don't need to play a battle force, formation or follow any of the objective secured rules. Unless you're looking at doing a tournament then you can just play whatever you'd like. I play against my brother (Eldar - Iyanden), his friend (Tau - Farsight) and another friend (Necron-Decurion). Sometimes I run lists that are as competitive as possible. Other times it's as simple as how many land raiders can you guys stop before I dislodge a ton of terminators. I've played fluffy and nonsense come the apocalypse game types. People put too much importance on somethings.

So, going by this, the units to buff should be...

- Attack bikes!
- Speeders and Speeder Storms?
- Storm Ravens and Land Raiders?
- Tactical terminators, woohoo
- Dreadnoughts?
- Devastator and command squads!
- Vindicators and predators

What did I miss that we never see on the table? Oh yeah, and nerf those bikes, centurions, and drop pods!!!

Im just looking forward to some new models and bitz!

that excelsior tank looks cool too,

EXCELSIORRRRRRRR!

I like some options of Marine Snipers squads or individual so can more emulate Chapters like the Raven Guard

 Mr Morden wrote:
I like some options of Marine Snipers squads or individual so can more emulate Chapters like the Raven Guard

Make the Horus Heresy Legion Reconnaissance Squad an option for 40K Raven Guard?

 Talys wrote:
So, going by this, the units to buff should be...

- Attack bikes!
- Speeders and Speeder Storms?
- Storm Ravens and Land Raiders?
- Tactical terminators, woohoo
- Dreadnoughts?
- Devastator and command squads!
- Vindicators and predators

What did I miss that we never see on the table? Oh yeah, and nerf those bikes, centurions, and drop pods!!!

Ah, but you forgot the obligatory unnecessary buff of an already powerful unit, so expect Centurions to gain a 2++ and have their toughness bumped to 7

 Talys wrote:
So, going by this, the units to buff should be...

- Attack bikes!
- Speeders and Speeder Storms?
- Storm Ravens and Land Raiders?
- Tactical terminators, woohoo
- Dreadnoughts?
- Devastator and command squads!
- Vindicators and predators

What did I miss that we never see on the table? Oh yeah, and nerf those bikes, centurions, and drop pods!!!

Forgive me but how exactly does command squad needs buffing and how the heck are they never fielded at your area? They're easily THE most flexible squad in the book. The amount of wargear, guns, transport and even FNP they have acces to is beyond amazing.

I would like to see a buff to Dreadnoughts, I love the look of them but they are just not that good.

I still use them because I'm a sucker for punishment but I would like to win with them and not in spite of them.

So, the rumour confirmations will come next week right? with the leaked white dwarf that always seems to happen Wednesdays now.

 Zewrath wrote:

 Talys wrote:
So, going by this, the units to buff should be...

- Attack bikes!
- Speeders and Speeder Storms?
- Storm Ravens and Land Raiders?
- Tactical terminators, woohoo
- Dreadnoughts?
- Devastator and command squads!
- Vindicators and predators

What did I miss that we never see on the table? Oh yeah, and nerf those bikes, centurions, and drop pods!!!

Forgive me but how exactly does command squad needs buffing and how the heck are they never fielded at your area? They're easily THE most flexible squad in the book. The amount of wargear, guns, transport and even FNP they have acces to is beyond amazing.

What I was actually talking about was boxes of models that nobody buys that need to be buffed. Command squads are great, but everyone pays 35 points to put them onto bikes, and they don't therefore don't purchase the command squad box of models, you know what I mean? The direction of the thread was "upgrade the kits that nobody is buying". I wasn't suggesting that the unit wasn't good, just the uselessness of the box of models that has old bits getting long in the tooth (and missing bikes lol).

 Talys wrote:
So, going by this, the units to buff should be...

- Attack bikes!
- Speeders and Speeder Storms?
- Storm Ravens and Land Raiders?
- Tactical terminators, woohoo
- Dreadnoughts?
- Devastator and command squads!
- Vindicators and predators

What did I miss that we never see on the table? Oh yeah, and nerf those bikes, centurions, and drop pods!!!

Why in the world would you nerf Bikers? They're fine; we just need a reason to take Tacticals besides the Drop Pod (like two Special Weapons access and maybe a cheaper Rhino by 5 points).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I like some options of Marine Snipers squads or individual so can more emulate Chapters like the Raven Guard

Make the Horus Heresy Legion Reconnaissance Squad an option for 40K Raven Guard?

Yeah something like that - it just seems like a cool thing to do - easy new models and pretty fluffy as well

I think tacticals will only get buffed through formations. Not much you can change to the build, they've always been 1 special and 1 heavy. Who knows, maybe a formation with 3 tacticals. 1 assault, 1 devastator. Free rhino or drop pod (base only...upgrades have to be paid for) for each sqd. Must equal 10 marines. etc.

I'm just waiting for Dark Angels to see what formation bonuses Ravenwing and Deathwing get.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Talys wrote:
So, going by this, the units to buff should be...

- Attack bikes!
- Speeders and Speeder Storms?
- Storm Ravens and Land Raiders?
- Tactical terminators, woohoo
- Dreadnoughts?
- Devastator and command squads!
- Vindicators and predators

What did I miss that we never see on the table? Oh yeah, and nerf those bikes, centurions, and drop pods!!!

Why in the world would you nerf Bikers? They're fine; we just need a reason to take Tacticals besides the Drop Pod (like two Special Weapons access and maybe a cheaper Rhino by 5 points).

Sarcasm and humor just got lost in the internet. I was just suggesting that for model sales efficiency, nerf kits people already spent hundreds on, buff kits nobody buys (a joke)

If there's a new Devastator squad kit, it better have that reinforced leg armor the old Devs in 2nd ed had.

Someone's been reading the Codex Astartes like it's gospel, methinks...

 Brother SRM wrote:
If there's a new Devastator squad kit, it better have that reinforced leg armor the old Devs in 2nd ed had.

While cool, it will probably just replace the 2 doubles that come in that kit for a new Grav cannon and probably some new fangled new shiny so that the kit only comes with one of each weapons. making you buy 4 diffrent kits just to get a full load out for 1 unit.

 Desubot wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
If there's a new Devastator squad kit, it better have that reinforced leg armor the old Devs in 2nd ed had.

While cool, it will probably just replace the 2 doubles that come in that kit for a new Grav cannon and probably some new fangled new shiny so that the kit only comes with one of each weapons. making you buy 4 diffrent kits just to get a full load out for 1 unit.

Well, they didn't do that for Eldar or Assault Terminators so there is hope! They should just get rid if stuff like heavy bolter. That's 3 or 4 pieces for a junk weapon.

bullyboy wrote:
I think tacticals will only get buffed through formations. Not much you can change to the build, they've always been 1 special and 1 heavy. Who knows, maybe a formation with 3 tacticals. 1 assault, 1 devastator. Free rhino or drop pod (base only...upgrades have to be paid for) for each sqd. Must equal 10 marines. etc.

I'm just waiting for Dark Angels to see what formation bonuses Ravenwing and Deathwing get.

I'd rather the formation give all my tactical and assaults squads free specials, and give devastators a discount or some special rule.

Then again, getting a free Razorback and then spending 20pts to make it a las/plas back would be great, too!

And hey, they didn't put required amounts on the Eldar or Necron formations, so here's hoping they give Adeptus Astartes the same options too!

Im hoping for armored spear head formations.

3-5 razorbacks for discounts with tacticals.
does things for reasons.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
It will be interesting to see what happens to marines, chapter tactics, and their decurion style formations. Hopefully they make tacs worth taking.....

Unfortunately I think the Codex Astartes fluff is going to bite marine players in the butt. Nearly every Power Armor formation in the game right now is simply too expensive to run, because most of them require multiple ten man squads. The new formations from the Khorne vs. Ultras are INSANE, but so expensive that you shouldn't expect to field them outside of Apocalpyse games.

who doesnt have multiple 10 man squads? tac marines are damn useful.

 easysauce wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
It will be interesting to see what happens to marines, chapter tactics, and their decurion style formations. Hopefully they make tacs worth taking.....

Unfortunately I think the Codex Astartes fluff is going to bite marine players in the butt. Nearly every Power Armor formation in the game right now is simply too expensive to run, because most of them require multiple ten man squads. The new formations from the Khorne vs. Ultras are INSANE, but so expensive that you shouldn't expect to field them outside of Apocalpyse games.

who doesnt have multiple 10 man squads? tac marines are damn useful.

From a collection POV, people who built razor-spam lists, or just work with 5 man dev squads might need to scramble for more PA bodies to fill out their squads. If assault marines are needed, how many squads are on people’s shelves, and of those, how many are full 10 man squads? From a list building POV, fielding them all at 10 men bumps the point cost of the squads up quite a bit. Dev squads are OK bang/buck when looking at 5 man squads. If you need to pay for the extra 5 bolter guys just to soak fire, how good do they remain? Paying for the full squads is going to make some formations prohibitively expensive.

Looking at how GW has gone with recent detachments and formations I would like to get something that is useful but yet within the fluff. And the fluff says that Space Marines work in units of companies with support from the armoury, the veteran company and the scout company too form strike forces.

Building a company formation would be expensive as fu**, but GW have some formations that are expensive, just see the Skitarii War Cohort, minimum is 1965 points with smallest units and no upgrades. Just as a reference I have my Imperial Fist 5th company list, going as true you can to fluff with captain, chaplain, command squad, 6 tactical, 2 assault, 2 devastator and 3 dreadnoughts and includes 6 rhinos and 2 razorbacks is 3000 points.

With that I would really like to have formations that follows the fluff but still is something that people would field. So some suggestions:

Tactical Formation, maybe 3 tactical squads. Formation gets that support fire Tau have (help with overwatch) for squads in formation.

Assault Formation, 2 unit of assault marines, assault centurions or bikes. No really good buff for this formation in my head, I like too shoot and don't use assault squads a lot.

Devastator Formation, 2 units of devastator or centurion devastator. Thinking buff be something like signum effect for whole squad to increase use of devastator squads.

HQ formation, captain, chaplain, command squad.

Dreadnoughts formation. 1-3 Dreadnoughts of any type.

This can then become an Astartes Battle Company that is 1 HQ form, 2 Tactical form, 1 Assault form, 1 Devastator form, 0-1 Dreadnought form. As long as everyone have same chapter tactic they will get a bigger buff to everyone in it.

Too that some support formations based on the Chapter organization. Suggestions:

Librarium.
1-2 Librarians.

Armoury.
1 Techmarine (or MotF), Servitors, 1-4 Tanks of TFC.

Scout support.
1-4 Scout Squads or Scout bikes.

Veterans
0-1 HQ, 1-4 Sternguard, Vanguard or Terminators.


Yeah, and some formations in formations for veteran company, scout company and reserve company.

Long post, but just remember that silly formations is a thing now. A company sized formations isn't Apocalypse anymore, it's GW s new thing.
And yeah, I kind of overlooked some units, mostly with wheels or wings... but the post was already long

Popped into my local store and grabbed my Kataphran destroyers today (yay) and found out they were told by their GW rep not to replenish Codex Space Marines. A good sign, fir sure!!