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 BlaxicanX wrote:
I always laugh when people complain about SM "dominance"- implying C:SM hasn't been a solidly average codex throughout most of its existence.

Where was this faux-outrage when IG leaf-blower lists were wiping their asses with C: SM throughout all of 5th, or during the Eldar\Tau\Daemon dominance of 6th?

Indeed. Even at their best, C:SM are upper Mid-Tier. Eldar have owned the top spot for quite some time and GW, in their infinite wisdom, decided to BUFF them. So yeah, giving Marines an effective way to counter them isn't exactly too much to ask, since there really isn't one as of yet.

 master of ordinance wrote:
So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.

What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?

Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.

Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.

I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.

Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).

Maybe they'll let us take squadrons of them. Or maybe they'll give them a small points drop.


Don't see them giving it old interceptor, or some special rule that lets them fire full ballistic skill at any target as long as it is not shaken or stunned.

Maybe they could have two different firing profiles. Or heck, just give them Interceptor and be done with it.

Since there's serious talk about the Rhino Primaris(the new command Rhino) being in the Codex, you would get access to its Servo-Skull Hive which has the "Targeting Data Skull" granting a friendly unit within 6(or 12) inches the ability to fire Snap Shots/Overwatch at their full Ballistic Skill.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).

Maybe they'll let us take squadrons of them. Or maybe they'll give them a small points drop.


Don't see them giving it old interceptor, or some special rule that lets them fire full ballistic skill at any target as long as it is not shaken or stunned.

Maybe they could have two different firing profiles. Or heck, just give them Interceptor and be done with it.

Since there's serious talk about the Rhino Primaris(the new command Rhino) being in the Codex, you would get access to its Servo-Skull Hive which has the "Targeting Data Skull" granting a friendly unit within 6(or 12) inches the ability to fire Snap Shots/Overwatch at their full Ballistic Skill.

Which would be all well and good...if it didn't require two models to do what one should be able to do. The Stalker basically has a Quadgun strapped to its back, there really isn't a good reason why it doesn't have Interceptor.

Interceptor just makes it so a weapon can be fired at the end of the enemy Movement Phase at an enemy unit that arrived from Reserve within range/LOS...at the expense of being unable to fire that weapon next turn.

C:SM have had plenty of dominate times- just not recently. During 4th marines owned the scene with the 5 man las/plas squad with razorback with the same. Space Wolves were released later and could do the trick better, so although SWs got a bad name during that time, they were just doing what SM players had done for several years. Also you could argue that generic SM armies aren't bad currently- the Gravstar and grav bikes are very good, as is the thunderfire cannon and the cheap flier they have- true they dont have their own dedicated Superheavy, but really the Knights are as much "theirs" as anyone elses.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.

What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?

Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.

Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.

I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.

Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.

Ah yes the Vendetta. A wonderful piece of hardware. Sorry, was. Now it is outclassed by just about every other flyer in the game. Also, im not on about Chaos. Im on about vanilla marines that just seem to get everything they want because daddy Kirby knows that little timmy (NO I am not implying all marine players are whiny kids) cant cope having to out think the opponent.
IG gunline? DS Terminators, Droppod Assault, LotD. Close assault force? Devestators, Thunderfire, and Vindicator.
Want to move your heavy weapons? Chapter tactics!
Want MOAR dakka? chapter tactics!
New codex - spanking new Marines in power armour in power armour kit that allows monsters such as the Gravstar.
IG have cool tanks - Terminus Ultra
IG have a tank destroyer that is actually not bad - Vindicator Destroyer that out guns its competitor for no real points increase
IG special orders and tank commanders - I wonder what these new 'command tanks' will do?
IG can squadron vehicles. Hahaha, well we have all seen the rumours.

All in all the SM dominance was only briefly interrupted during 5th ed, and even then only when the IG player brought Valkyries and Vendettas.

DS terminators messing up a guard gunline? Obviously you've never charged 40 bayonets with a commissar and watched 1st company chumps get taken to the curb.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.

What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?

Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.

Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.

I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.

Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.

Ah yes the Vendetta. A wonderful piece of hardware. Sorry, was. Now it is outclassed by just about every other flyer in the game. Also, im not on about Chaos. Im on about vanilla marines that just seem to get everything they want because daddy Kirby knows that little timmy (NO I am not implying all marine players are whiny kids) cant cope having to out think the opponent.
IG gunline? DS Terminators, Droppod Assault, LotD. Close assault force? Devestators, Thunderfire, and Vindicator.
Want to move your heavy weapons? Chapter tactics!
Want MOAR dakka? chapter tactics!
New codex - spanking new Marines in power armour in power armour kit that allows monsters such as the Gravstar.
IG have cool tanks - Terminus Ultra
IG have a tank destroyer that is actually not bad - Vindicator Destroyer that out guns its competitor for no real points increase
IG special orders and tank commanders - I wonder what these new 'command tanks' will do?
IG can squadron vehicles. Hahaha, well we have all seen the rumours.

All in all the SM dominance was only briefly interrupted during 5th ed, and even then only when the IG player brought Valkyries and Vendettas.

All you're doing is compare IG with SM while there is a ton of other armies. I don't want to challenge your comparison (i assume it's correct) - but i'd rather have you consider the entirety of the army lists (something GW also struggles, so no reason to blame you for not doing so). This means:

If the new Codex:Craftworlds is meant to be the new baseline powerlevel-wise, the new Codex:Space Marines should aim to match them. And a new Codex:Astra Militarum should try to match both C:CW and the to-be-released new C:SM in how powerful it should be - just like all other new releases SHOULD.

That's the only way to have a balanced game - look at ALL factions and try to find a good middle ground for ALL of them. You'll never achieve perfect balance, sure, and it might suck for the lists that get updated last (which is simply a good reason for GW to update all lists at the SAME time)

master of ordinance, does this really seem like the thread to cry about balance in?

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.

What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?

Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.

Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.

I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.

Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.

Ah yes the Vendetta. A wonderful piece of hardware. Sorry, was. Now it is outclassed by just about every other flyer in the game. Also, im not on about Chaos. Im on about vanilla marines that just seem to get everything they want because daddy Kirby knows that little timmy (NO I am not implying all marine players are whiny kids) cant cope having to out think the opponent.
IG gunline? DS Terminators, Droppod Assault, LotD. Close assault force? Devestators, Thunderfire, and Vindicator.
Want to move your heavy weapons? Chapter tactics!
Want MOAR dakka? chapter tactics!
New codex - spanking new Marines in power armour in power armour kit that allows monsters such as the Gravstar.
IG have cool tanks - Terminus Ultra
IG have a tank destroyer that is actually not bad - Vindicator Destroyer that out guns its competitor for no real points increase
IG special orders and tank commanders - I wonder what these new 'command tanks' will do?
IG can squadron vehicles. Hahaha, well we have all seen the rumours.

All in all the SM dominance was only briefly interrupted during 5th ed, and even then only when the IG player brought Valkyries and Vendettas.

What in Odins balls are you talking about?

Ive played marines (in various forms) since second and what you are claiming from a model standpoint is only slightly true, from a rules one you haven't a clue, Marines have ALWAYS been mid tier, yes even in the heady days of "rhino rush" as elderp and Truecrons beat them down without so much as a sweat, and god forbid you made a mistake like coming near a nid or ork army with 100pt carnifexs, and choppas repectivly.

Marines have never been top tier in any edition, ever, Space wolves and Grey knights are power armour forces and not Codex marines, they have both been quite strong in repective editions but still not at powerful as the non marine competitors, Tau, Eldar, crons, nids (once upon a time) and orks all effectively beat the stuffing out of marines quite handily.

Sad Panda wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
Fait just poasted about DAngles. It's a weak rumor but we do have redirects. Should we start a separate thread?

Dark Angels codex comes late in June with a new clampack Interrogator Chaplain (completely new model with a powerfist, not the DV one).

I heard Grim Resolve now improves Overwatch.

I'll take that to the bank.

Sad Panda - Total rumors: (15 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Surely being able to take extra special pistols isn't going to make regular assault marines THAT much better than say Blood Angels? Plasma pistols were always kind of a terrible option, right?

 Jambles wrote:
Surely being able to take extra special pistols isn't going to make regular assault marines THAT much better than say Blood Angels? Plasma pistols were always kind of a terrible option, right?

Well. That particular rumour stinks to the high heavens, even if it wasn't from BoLS.

They`ve seen pistols on the sprues (!), but no power sword/combat shield/power fist (!), which they presume are on a separate sergeant sprue (?) and from that they conclude (!) that the rules allow Assault Marines to go all pistols?

Good luck with that.

Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.

I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.

Requizen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.

I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.

I once wiped out 30ish IG Guardsmen in one multi Assault on turn 3 with an outflanking 10 model assault squad and kayvaan shrike (from reserves). Turned the tide of the game in one combat - his plasma special weapon teams were chewing through my scouts and tactical marines.. Those were the days....

I never cared whether Raven Guard armies were effective, I just wanted them to be fluffy.

It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.

I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.

I once wiped out 30ish IG Guardsmen in one multi Assault on turn 3 with an outflanking 10 model assault squad and kayvaan shrike (from reserves). Turned the tide of the game in one combat - his plasma special weapon teams were chewing through my scouts and tactical marines.. Those were the days....

I never cared whether Raven Guard armies were effective, I just wanted them to be fluffy.

It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.

I do not see it as a "Chapter Tactics" Rule, but possibly Formation Ability or maybe a Detachment thing.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.

I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.

I once wiped out 30ish IG Guardsmen in one multi Assault on turn 3 with an outflanking 10 model assault squad and kayvaan shrike (from reserves). Turned the tide of the game in one combat - his plasma special weapon teams were chewing through my scouts and tactical marines.. Those were the days....

I never cared whether Raven Guard armies were effective, I just wanted them to be fluffy.

It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.

I do not see it as a "Chapter Tactics" Rule, but possibly Formation Ability or maybe a Detachment thing.

The trouble is with things like that being a detachment thing is that it usually punishes those who don't want characters or those that have made their own chapters from scratch.

 General Kroll wrote:
The trouble is with things like that being a detachment thing is that it usually punishes those who don't want characters or those that have made their own chapters from scratch.

Which is why I'd favour a return to the Chapter Doctrines thing from the 4th Ed Space Marine Codex (which was before my time - I started with 5th Ed but I do have the 4th book).

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I always laugh when people complain about SM "dominance"- implying C:SM hasn't been a solidly average codex throughout most of its existence.

Where was this faux-outrage when IG leaf-blower lists were wiping their asses with C: SM throughout all of 5th, or during the Eldar\Tau\Daemon dominance of 6th?

As a Chaos player I'm just annoyed that the trend from 4th onwards has been 'generic' Chaos, flavoured SM. I don't mind new Marine books so much...largely because half the time I'm probably just going to use it for my Chaos because it will have half the options that weren't taken away from us.

I don't have any info as to what the content of the new assault squad and dev box is. (I haven't even heard about a Dev. box although it does make sense that one had been produced. See below(

What I do know is that the assault squad was designed by Jes, it was being produced around about the time of the new Tac. Squad released in 2013. Expect it to feature the new torso design in-line with the other new kits. I heard the rest of the SM kits will slowly but surely be getting redesigned to fit in with the other new kits.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.

I remember that article they also did Lysander it's what properly got me into 40K.

 pretre wrote:

Sad Panda wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
Fait just poasted about DAngles. It's a weak rumor but we do have redirects. Should we start a separate thread?

Dark Angels codex comes late in June with a new clampack Interrogator Chaplain (completely new model with a powerfist, not the DV one).

I heard Grim Resolve now improves Overwatch.

I'll take that to the bank.

Sad Panda - Total rumors: (15 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Thanks again for the great job pretre

made me read recents Sad Panda posts, lots of interesting info in there

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/listByUser/92272.page

 RedFox wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Sad Panda wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
Fait just poasted about DAngles. It's a weak rumor but we do have redirects. Should we start a separate thread?

Dark Angels codex comes late in June with a new clampack Interrogator Chaplain (completely new model with a powerfist, not the DV one).

I heard Grim Resolve now improves Overwatch.

I'll take that to the bank.

Sad Panda - Total rumors: (15 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Thanks again for the great job pretre

made me read recents Sad Panda posts, lots of interesting info in there

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/listByUser/92272.page

yeah,

Pretre is on my awesome list for many things but the rumour tracker is aces

I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.

Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not

spartiatis wrote:
I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.

Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not

AU site still shows the shoulder pads as available, assault squad no longer available though.

kb_lock wrote:

spartiatis wrote:
I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.

Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not

AU site still shows the shoulder pads as available, assault squad no longer available though.

My EU/SWE shows the same.

spartiatis wrote:
I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.

Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not

Here in the US, Thunderfire Cannon got repackaged a few months back(the plain black box that all the new releases have gotten) and is stocked on the shelves for the local GW.

spartiatis wrote:
I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.

Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not

The shoulder pads are a waste of time -- they are the old, tiny size ones, and won't match with any of the current shoulder pads.