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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So... combat doctrines are literally the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics?

I wonder what they'll have instead... or if Chapter Tactics are being removed.

Edit -- the text actually reads:

Seven Chapter Tactics cards provide special rules for those Codex-following (or mostly Codex-following) members of the First Founding and their Successors, while Combat Doctrines allow affected squads to adopt Tactical, Assault or Devastator Doctrines, each presented on a large-format card.

Most eagerly awaited of all are the Space Marines' very own Tactical Objectives. Unique objectives like Death from Above and Lightning Strike reward characteristic Space marine methods of planetstrike and lightning warfare, adding a new dimension to the battlefield plans of the tactically-versatile Space Marines and their commanders everywhere.

Not a fan of the aspects of the game that make me do book keeping during the game. I just want to move toy soldiers around and make "pew pew" noises, not have to jot down every single time I or the other play scored VP points in turn 3 for doing x.

So if I'm reading this right, Combat Doctrines are in addition to Chapter Tactics?
Wonder what Ultra's will have, then (for their chapter tactics).

Also 7 Chapter Tactics... well it looks like GW haven't completely destroyed BT yet, though the 'for codex-following' part is a bit worrying... GW may have made the BT more codex-compliant fluff-wise.

General Hobbs wrote:


Not a fan of the aspects of the game that make me do book keeping during the game. I just want to move toy soldiers around and make "pew pew" noises, not have to jot down every single time I or the other play scored VP points in turn 3 for doing x.

So don't play maelstrom? Skip the rules you don't like? If you're just going pew pew, what do the details matter?

About fething time we have a rules preview!

I like the doctrine idea as it gives more reason to actually use Tacticals, but no double Special Weapons will always make them inferior to Bikers, so we'll see.
Got any pics Talys?

So...the way I am understanding it is that the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics have been moved to an armywide ability available to all Chapters. Chapter Tactics will be IN ADDITION to these Combat Doctrines. If this is the case, that is pretty cool.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So...the way I am understanding it is that the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics have been moved to an armywide ability available to all Chapters. Chapter Tactics will be IN ADDITION to these Combat Doctrines. If this is the case, that is pretty cool.

I believe the rumor is that (at least part of it) will be the ability to choose to fail morale checks, like the 5th Edition Codex Combat Tactics.

Which would be so amazing. Being able to get away from things, and then turn around and rapid fire them? So good.

Yep, and book keeping is pretty easy. I usually just make a set of cards and then use them up and flip them over, etc. It really helps me remember what to use and less likely to forget....I need to make a start of phase card as well.....

most hobby stores sell cheap wooden bases (of various sizes...I use 40mm) that you can paint and add details (such as decals) to remind you of what actions you have taken. just keep a stack near your board edge, when used...remove or just flip. Easy.

 Talys wrote:
Dunno what I would do for DA, because who knows about the new codex.

Give us the old battle force with updated models. The attack bike is pretty useless unless it can now be purchased for Ravenwing Knights or if they allow Assault Bike squads. The previous box was much better with the 6 bikes, land speeder, attack bike, and upgrade sprue. Big savings on it too.

 Whumbachumba wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Dunno what I would do for DA, because who knows about the new codex.

Give us the old battle force with updated models. The attack bike is pretty useless unless it can now be purchased for Ravenwing Knights or if they allow Assault Bike squads. The previous box was much better with the 6 bikes, land speeder, attack bike, and upgrade sprue. Big savings on it too.

The old battleforce is the best way to get bikes for ANY Space Marine army. 6-7 bikes (build the attack bike as just another bike) and a speeder for kicks. I should have bought one when I had the chance. It is great for army building a bikes army.

Im interested in what the salamanders were given. anyone have any info?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Im interested in what the salamanders were given. anyone have any info?

The lack of leaks this time around is infuriating! LOL.

The only thing we see are the Salamanders Tactical objectives in the white dwarf.

Grarg wrote:
Hey talys

Any chance that you can tell what the raven guard limited edition codex looks like?

Now that it seems more and more likely GW will do a constant 1-2 year churn on codexes and rulebooks, people still think of purchasing "limited editon" books for triple the price? What's the thought process behind that? Do you expect it to become a collector's item? Wouldn't you rather have an extra $100 worth of models?

A rulebook is a utilitarian item. Having a limited edition codex is sorta like having hand-painted toilet paper. When I buy a rulebook, I'm just concerned about the content. When I buy toilet paper, I'm mainly concerned about not having my hands covered in feces.

Same reason someone buys digital, or collects magic cards, or prefers hardback. Some people spend 3 or 4 times the price of the models to have them painted by other people. Some people have every single book that has come out since second edition on their wall. If I was one of them I would have no problem getting the limited edition, it looks like a joy to read and you get all those cool little things hat everyone wants but few will buy.

If they enjoy having it then what does it matter? I know people where cost is not really a consideration it's "do I want it or not". If they want it or they think they will enjoy it, they buy it. That's all that matters.

Grarg wrote:
Hey talys

Any chance that you can tell what the raven guard limited edition codex looks like?

Hey Grarg! There is a picture of the Raven Guard slipcase on the spread on P.13, but the photography is hard to make out, because it's an all-grey box. There's a tactical marine on the front (you can see the shoulder marking), and he looks to be in some sort of battle. The description reads, "The Raven Guard Codex is monochrome save for the red eye lenses of the Space Marines lurking in the dark". All of the covers look really nice.

The extra stuff for LE are:
- 36 Tacitcal Objective cards
- 6 metal objective markers
- 8 large format cards showcasing the 8 marks of power armor
- full color guide to the colors and insignia of the 190 space marine successor chapters

Looks like you actually get a bunch of unique stuff.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Now that it seems more and more likely GW will do a constant 1-2 year churn on codexes and rulebooks, people still think of purchasing "limited editon" books for triple the price? What's the thought process behind that? Do you expect it to become a collector's item? Wouldn't you rather have an extra $100 worth of models?

A rulebook is a utilitarian item. Having a limited edition codex is sorta like having hand-painted toilet paper. When I buy a rulebook, I'm just concerned about the content. When I buy toilet paper, I'm mainly concerned about not having my hands covered in feces.

First of all, I didn't buy the LE. But, here's my answer as to why I would buy one, and also, why I didn't buy this one.

To me, it's not just utilitarian. Why would I buy a book in hardcover instead of softcover, if it's past the new release period? It's the same thing -- these are nice things, one is nicer, and I'd rather have the nicer one. It looks nice on my gaming shelf today, and I'll use it a ton before it's retired. Then, in 2 years, it will look nice in my collection of old rulebooks, which I proudly display in my nerdy library filled with a few hundred scifi books and a few hundred RPG and gaming sourcebooks and a few hundred (legally purchased) Sci-Fi DVDs and Blu-Rays. I like my Scifi, what can I say.

For me, I am not just concerned about the content. I collect these things, and I will even sometimes go back and lovingly open up my Diety & Demigods or a pop open a Player's Handbook when I can't remember what level a spell was (quick, Polymorph Other, what level!!) or maybe spend a couple of evenings to read a hardcover Isaac Asimov or Frank Herbert novel.

Now, why did I NOT buy the LE? Here are all the reasons:

- If it came out ONE DAY earlier, it would be a no brainer. I'd be lined up to hit the buy button.
- Instead, my FLGS, which I like to support, wasn't sure if it was web order or local. And certainly don't want to get it one day later!!
- I would have bought it anyhow, if there were a Blood Angels cover. It's my favorite Space Marine chapter, and yeah, I know, they got their own book, but I don't care I play my BA models as a successor vanilla chapter all the time. Or gimme another cover with a red space marine.

Incidentally, I have never bought an LE book. I think the closest I came to it other than this one, was Tau, and that would have been an impulse purchase because it was sitting on the store shelf. Almost CWE too, but store couldn't guarantee when it would arrive, and I didn't want it late. There ya go

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So if I'm reading this right, Combat Doctrines are in addition to Chapter Tactics?
Wonder what Ultra's will have, then (for their chapter tactics).

Also 7 Chapter Tactics... well it looks like GW haven't completely destroyed BT yet, though the 'for codex-following' part is a bit worrying... GW may have made the BT more codex-compliant fluff-wise.

The quote says " or mostly Codex following" - which covers Black Templars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels to be honest. All of them have a couple of unusual/non codex "special" units but that's going to be true or the majority of Chapters in the Imperium of Man.

So the "Seven" are? Ultramarines, White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Black Templars and?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So if I'm reading this right, Combat Doctrines are in addition to Chapter Tactics?
Wonder what Ultra's will have, then (for their chapter tactics).

Also 7 Chapter Tactics... well it looks like GW haven't completely destroyed BT yet, though the 'for codex-following' part is a bit worrying... GW may have made the BT more codex-compliant fluff-wise.

The quote says " or mostly Codex following" - which covers Black Templars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels to be honest. All of them have a couple of unusual/non codex "special" units but that's going to be true or the majority of Chapters in the Imperium of Man.

So the "Seven" are? Ultramarines, White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Black Templars and?

Iron Hands.

Iron Hands. You're missing Iron Hands

EDIT:

Actually, Grarg, here you go:

Top row - Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard
Bottom Row - Iron Hands, Salamanders, Successor Chapters, White Scars



If I did a no-no snapping a pic of that spread, moderator please delete. Of all the things to show off though, I doubt a 2page spread on LE codex is something GW would mind much

Looks like this Limited Edition is more or less the same as the last.

....Aside from of course the rainbow of covers.

So are Chapter Tactics looking to be the same so far?

Also any word on Tactical Marine changes? I'd really like to use them over Bikers please...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So are Chapter Tactics looking to be the same so far?

Also any word on Tactical Marine changes? I'd really like to use them over Bikers please...

Based on the datacard text (scroll up to top of this page), I think there are Combat Doctrines (the 3 mentioned sound the same as the current ultramarine CT) which are unlocked by chapter tactics. However, it looks like other things can unlock the combat doctrines too, and that it stacks -- so you could get tactical doctrine x 2 or assault x 2 for instance. This would actually be pretty kickass for your primary detachment!

Also, Grav Cannon + Grav Amp is probably on the Heavy Weapons list -- just guessing by the format of GW lists, it will any 4 devastators can exchange heavy bolter for an item on the heavy weapons list. This means that the tactical squad has a decent chance of getting access to 1 grav cannon for a 10 man squad, that you'd probably combat squad out. That would be kinda cool too.

Imagine if you can reuse doctrines many times. That would give Devastators Relentless!! Or, allow all tactical marines to always reroll failed to hits; this could be pretty neat.

If the Gladius Strike Force is, in fact, analogous to the Decurion Detachment for Space Marines, I hope it will be able to be converted over to the Blood Angels pretty easily. It seems like it would be easy enough. Probably would have some mandatory Death Company. That or I hope that the Gladius Strike Force is actually compatible with the Blood Angels units somehow.

I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the Gladius Strike Force is, in fact, analogous to the Decurion Detachment for Space Marines, I hope it will be able to be converted over to the Blood Angels pretty easily. It seems like it would be easy enough. Probably would have some mandatory Death Company. That or I hope that the Gladius Strike Force is actually compatible with the Blood Angels units somehow.

I integrate my BA into the basic codex all the time. It gives me 4 options:

Option #1 -- I play my BA as a codex successor chapter all the time; nobody ever has a problem with it. Basically, I can use my tacticals, assault, devastator, vehicles, and drop pods. I can't use Dante, furiosos, priest, sanguinary guard, or death company. Which really isn't a huge deal.

Option #2 -- I mix and match by taking part of the force as a successor chapter, and the other part as an allied detachment with Dante, as the HQ. Keep in mind that this only works because on my marines, because all of my squads are all clearly identifiable by sculpted shoulderpads (mostly raided from DC and Sanguinary boxes). So I can say, the ones with the sculpted gold cups are the BA faction, for instance.

Option #3 -- I play them as straight BA!

Option #4 -- Play them with the Flesh Tearers formation as a taxi service! Ok, to be honest, I haven't done this yet. But I lent my BA models to a buddy to play them against me (playing my Eldar), paired with his shiny new Skitarii, so that kinda counts?

Since my lists are way more themed than "I MUST WIN", nobody ever minds. It also doesn't hurt that my minis look pretty decent on the table, and the two chapters I started 40k with since the 80s was Blood Angels and Grey Knights, which BOTH split off from the main rules. And although I have a few ultramarines painted, there's no way I want to go back and do EVERYTHING again, just to be blue! Besides, ever since DC, Sanguinary and now BA Tactical, the bits are just so much better than vanilla.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

Like Strikeforce Ultra didn't? Yeah, I play BA for all of their cool toys, so I am not leaving my DC, Sang Guard, Furiosos and etc. behind. I will make some custom rules for a Baal Strike Force variant of the Gladius Strike Force. Hell, I would buy the gak out of a White Dwarf that would contain an official Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves variant of the Gladius Strike Force.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

Like Strikeforce Ultra didn't? Yeah, I play BA for all of their cool toys, so I am not leaving my DC, Sang Guard, Furiosos and etc. behind. I will make some custom rules for a Baal Strike Force variant of the Gladius Strike Force. Hell, I would buy the gak out of a White Dwarf that would contain an official Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves variant of the Gladius Strike Force.

And the reasoning for people to play the standard marine codex then would be?!?!

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

Like Strikeforce Ultra didn't? Yeah, I play BA for all of their cool toys, so I am not leaving my DC, Sang Guard, Furiosos and etc. behind. I will make some custom rules for a Baal Strike Force variant of the Gladius Strike Force. Hell, I would buy the gak out of a White Dwarf that would contain an official Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves variant of the Gladius Strike Force.

And the reasoning for people to play the standard marine codex then would be?!?!

I am talking for variants of the Decurion-like detachment for the non-C:SM chapters. The C:SM chapters would have all of their goodies like the Centurions, Thunderfire Cannons, Land Speeder Storms, etc. These units would be unusable by other chapters. There would just be a variation of the Gladius Strike Force for Blood Angels(Baal Strike Force), Dark Angels, and Space Wolves. It would not invalidate the C:SM at all. And it would not invalidate the detachments from the individual codices either, since they would offer a more free-form way to make the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Looks like Eviscerators cost 25 pts, but you give up your BP and Chainsword to get them. Also, only 1-2 per 5-10. No special weapons besides the Flamer, so BA Assault Squads still have the edge.

I can have two flamers and two eviscerators? That's pretty awesome. Costs 215 for two flamers, two eviscerators, and a power weapon for the sergeant. Ten man strong, of course.
225 if you make the sergeant a veteran. Two hidden power fists aren't bad...

As for making your own blood angel strike force... If your group is fine with you making up your own rules, do what you want. I wouldn't play against it, but I'm not in your group.

Edit: wait, the assault marines cost as much as tacticals now? Maybe tacticals a are getting a price drop...

Edit 2: just saw you have to pay for the jump packs. Slightly less awesome. i was seriously considering taking assault marines for a minute...