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I don't suppose we could get a Mod here to stop the trolls and get the thread back on topic, which is news and rumors, not derision and mocking.

Yeah, on the subject of N&R, do we have any actual rules rumours/leaks for anything more than the basic tactical/assault squads? I'd like to know more about honour guard before I assemble the ones I have lying around.

I'm trying to figure out what the big pull of buying this new Space Marine book is. It's one of the highest priced books at $58, re-done now in two years...but I don't see that much new content. I imagine there will be new formations to come about soon, which will make up the majority of the updated content, but Space Marines haven't changed drastically in many years. The previous codex at least had centurions, what does this one have?

I also see the LE copies are up for sale at $165...well, at least no one can say "I didn't know this would happen!" when they get invalidated in two years (seeing as thay happened to the last whole bunch). I'm not really a fan of the "color-your-own-space-marine" art (the same goes for this in all of the other books), it feels like an attempt to just up the page count. But with the Dark Eldar book, there were descriptions of each of the factions to go with the art- are these Space Marine ones going to just be blank page and a guy on each one?

I'm willing to be open to reinterpretation on these things, but as it stands the new codex seems like an attempt to maintain the subscription status of playing 40k.

If we can stop arguing about pretty pointless stuff, I was told that space marines are all going to be moving to 32mm is this true?

Yeah, for me it just comes down to dusting off a few models or assemble a few key ones so no big deal for the old SM player.

The online army painter artwork looks more as filler to me that happens to show faction paint jobs.
I wonder if they will release the line-art so we can try stuff out in MSPaint (color fill ho!)?
The mechanicus codex's were overflowing with them.

The dev grav guns remind me a bit of noise marine weapons: the wandering around and shooting is helpful, the points cost, not so much.
Will grav guns on bikes still be preferred? We shall see.

I too wanted to try out this drop pod taxi service I keep seeing but never got to use. I could see tucking Skitarii into them and telling them not to get squished on entry.

I have a sneaking suspicion BT fluff will be no librarians again, some anti psionics buff would be nice.

"Soon" and my frantic army touch-up shall commence.

<edit> Yeah the bigger bases in the mix will look weird in my stuff, anywhere to get the bigger bases in bulk? Exploring options here: I could go big for Dev for now, the rest can wait.

Gosh darn auto correct was brutal this time so many funny edits "gravy-guns" indeed.

-Shrike- wrote:Yeah, on the subject of N&R, do we have any actual rules rumours/leaks for anything more than the basic tactical/assault squads? I'd like to know more about honour guard before I assemble the ones I have lying around.

I’m with you waiting with baited breath. I’m picking out parts and cleaning mold lines, sticky-tacking stuff together for now. Come Saturday, or when we get solid leaks, the glue will come out to finalize things.

pities2004 wrote:If we can stop arguing about pretty pointless stuff, I was told that space marines are all going to be moving to 32mm is this true?

The AM box only came with the new bases, for what that’s worth.

 Accolade wrote:
I'm trying to figure out what the big pull of buying this new Space Marine book is. It's one of the highest priced books at $58, re-done now in two years...but I don't see that much new content. I imagine there will be new formations to come about soon, which will make up the majority of the updated content, but Space Marines haven't changed drastically in many years. The previous codex at least had centurions, what does this one have?

All I know is my eyes just popped when I saw that even the ebook version is $50. And I'm sure most of the content will be copy-pasta from the previous book.

 Carnage43 wrote:
That's the core of the issue though....you CANNOT change bolt and chain weapons...or lascannons or plasma guns, they are literally in a dozen books. You can't change them without either making them something lame like "Astates bolter" and "chainsword mkII" or completely upsetting the balance of the game. I mean, imagine sister of battle with rending bolters.

I can imagine that. Are you even implying Sisters, with bolters, would be OP? Really? Those models with a statline full of 3's, using a S4 AP5 Rapid fire 24" weapon, would be OP if they got rending?
Are we playing the same game?
Currently, Sisters with bolters are ablative wounds for the special weapons.

I have to say that even though I can appreciate the idea of basic line art for symbols, iconography, etc. the execution here is very poor and looks very jarring compared to the rest of the book.

For reference, here's one of the equivalent pages from the 2003 Daemonhunters codex:


Still basic and simple, but the outline is a slightly photoshopped model picture, which gives a bit of texture and the whole thing just looks a bit more professional.

At least this time I won't have to pay extra for the iBook version, just because they throw in the force requisition tool.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
That's the core of the issue though....you CANNOT change bolt and chain weapons...or lascannons or plasma guns, they are literally in a dozen books. You can't change them without either making them something lame like "Astates bolter" and "chainsword mkII" or completely upsetting the balance of the game. I mean, imagine sister of battle with rending bolters.

I can imagine that. Are you even implying Sisters, with bolters, would be OP? Really? Those models with a statline full of 3's, using a S4 AP5 Rapid fire 24" weapon, would be OP if they got rending?
Are we playing the same game?
Currently, Sisters with bolters are ablative wounds for the special weapons.

Why are you still talking about Sisters?

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
That's the core of the issue though....you CANNOT change bolt and chain weapons...or lascannons or plasma guns, they are literally in a dozen books. You can't change them without either making them something lame like "Astates bolter" and "chainsword mkII" or completely upsetting the balance of the game. I mean, imagine sister of battle with rending bolters.

I can imagine that. Are you even implying Sisters, with bolters, would be OP? Really? Those models with a statline full of 3's, using a S4 AP5 Rapid fire 24" weapon, would be OP if they got rending?
Are we playing the same game?
Currently, Sisters with bolters are ablative wounds for the special weapons.

Why are you still talking about Sisters?

To be fair it was brought up as a reason why you could not change bolters in the new SM Codex (hint read the actual bbit he is quoting!)-

Its not a very good argument considering that GW don't care about what has gone before or constistancy - if they wanted t change them they would and the old Codexes that use bolters - and that also includes Inqusiiton would just have the old stats......unless House ruled.

Do we think the new SM Command vehicles will be in the Codex?

I doubt the Command Tanks will be in there. We would have probably have seen them on the website by now. If they are, hopefully we will get Grav Razorbacks since the turret fits.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I doubt the Command Tanks will be in there. We would have probably have seen them on the website by now. If they are, hopefully we will get Grav Razorbacks since the turret fits.

yawn - I guess they have to keep trying to retcon"new" stuff in to sell stuff to those who have all the stuff for their own Chapters - or they could actually do something for Chapters other than the "special needs" ones that would work for various successors.......or a propoer sniper squad /stealth for the Chapters who actually use them.

Just hope anything they do do looks better than the Centurions (shudder) or the flyers.

SickSix wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
My gawd you GW apologists are insufferable! You won't even acknowledge one of the most obvious declines in art we have ever seen!

So if they drew the damn things in crayon would you still say 'Well it serves the purpose of showing you what colors they are supposed to be.' ?

This is so pathetic. Just because they screwed other factions with the same crap artwork, doesn't mean it's okay to keep doing it!

Eh, it is a down grade from the sixth edition book, I agree.

But complaining it's not Forge World quality is just silly, considering it has never been on the same quality as Forge World.

Get your panties unbunched, boy!

It's a decline from previous codexes! It's not even the same quality from their own previous books. It's just hilarious, it's like a bunch of abused puppies, doesn't matter how much their master beats them, y'all will keep licking his hand.

Olgerth Istaarn wrote:The GW apologists truly provide endless entertainment. Because EVERYTHING IS AWESOME.

Jesus Christ you people are insufferable. Everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, hilariously hyperbolic GW hate is an "apologist". No one has said that the color plates are awesome. People have simply pointed out that they don't care because they are technical drawings and don't need to look amazing. People like IAmAGeek or Jadenim offer reasonable opinions to the contrary without being obtuse, and that's great and fosters discussion, which is the purpose of dakka. Then you to storm in and start raging like whining five-year olds who can't understand that different people have different opinions. In your narrow world view, everyone is either a raging lunatic fanboy or a righteous crusader against the GW menace.

Atleast the "apologists" are interested in discussion instead of devolving the thread into a sulphuric dakka hate stew.

 Talizvar wrote:
anywhere to get the bigger bases in bulk? Exploring options here:

Our friends at Secret Weapon and elsewhere are already hard at work defusing GW's latest gambit to force us all to buy new minis, yet again.



Behold, the 25mm to 32mm base adapter.

You'll have to try harder than that, GW.

Mymearan wrote:
Jesus Christ you people are insufferable. Everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, hilariously hyperbolic GW hate is an "apologist". No one has said that the color plates are awesome. People have simply pointed out that they don't care because they are technical drawings and don't need to look amazing. People like IAmAGeek offer reasonable opinions to the contrary without being obtuse, and then you to storm and start raging like whining five-year olds who can't understand that different people have different opinions. In your narrow world view, everyone is either a raging lunatic fanboy or a righteous crusader against the GW menace.

Doesn't work for Americans. It's either "us" or "them" pretty much all the time - there's no room for anything in between.

I'm looking forward to my 'dex copy, should arrive on saturday - and gave me the opportunity to order a blister of Crusaders for my Inq detachment, couldn't find them anywhere else but GW.

nekooni wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
Jesus Christ you people are insufferable. Everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, hilariously hyperbolic GW hate is an "apologist". No one has said that the color plates are awesome. People have simply pointed out that they don't care because they are technical drawings and don't need to look amazing. People like IAmAGeek offer reasonable opinions to the contrary without being obtuse, and then you to storm and start raging like whining five-year olds who can't understand that different people have different opinions. In your narrow world view, everyone is either a raging lunatic fanboy or a righteous crusader against the GW menace.

Doesn't work for Americans. It's either "us" or "them" pretty much all the time - there's no room for anything in between.

I'm looking forward to my 'dex copy, should arrive on saturday - and gave me the opportunity to order a blister of Crusaders for my Inq detachment, couldn't find them anywhere else but GW.

Wow, really? You're going to broad-stroke all Americans into one category. Definitely not hypocritical, definitely not the same thing the original offending poster was doing.

Mymearan wrote:

Jesus Christ you people are insufferable. Everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, hilariously hyperbolic GW hate is an "apologist". No one has said that the color plates are awesome. People have simply pointed out that they don't care because they are technical drawings and don't need to look amazing. People like IAmAGeek or Jadenim offer reasonable opinions to the contrary without being obtuse, and that's great and fosters discussion, which is the purpose of dakka. Then you to storm in and start raging like whining five-year olds who can't understand that different people have different opinions. In your narrow world view, everyone is either a raging lunatic fanboy or a righteous crusader against the GW menace.

Thanks for not lumping me in with that haha, I definitely wasn't trying to be obtuse. If you're happy with the drawings that's fine, as a guide for colour schemes they definitely serve their purpose. I was just pointing out there's much nicer ways it could've been done, using an example that's really from the same company.

Can we... uh... keep this constructive?

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mymearan wrote:

Jesus Christ you people are insufferable. Everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, hilariously hyperbolic GW hate is an "apologist". No one has said that the color plates are awesome. People have simply pointed out that they don't care because they are technical drawings and don't need to look amazing. People like IAmAGeek or Jadenim offer reasonable opinions to the contrary without being obtuse, and that's great and fosters discussion, which is the purpose of dakka. Then you to storm in and start raging like whining five-year olds who can't understand that different people have different opinions. In your narrow world view, everyone is either a raging lunatic fanboy or a righteous crusader against the GW menace.

Thanks for not lumping me in with that haha, I definitely wasn't trying to be obtuse. If you're happy with the drawings that's fine, as a guide for colour schemes they definitely serve their purpose. I was just pointing out there's much nicer ways it could've been done, using an example that's really from the same company.

Which is great and I for one appreciate, and yes I agree that the Forgeworld ones are much nicer, and if I could choose I would take those. It's no secret that I tend to have a positive outlook on GW, you and many others many times a negative one, which like I said is completely fine. What I find infuriating is people who categorize everyone "other side" as extremists (and yes that comment about Americans falls into that category, that doesn't help anyone) and won't listen to or respond to arguments. Obviously I'm far from perfect in this regard myself and sometime fall into that trap, but I try to be aware of it.

Very sorry for the tangent, mods you can remove this post and my above rant if its too much.

I have to say I loved all of the 6th edition codex cover art (esp. the dark angels book!). I have played dark angels since the end of 2nd/beginning of third, grey knights since their daemonhunter creation, chaos since 4th, and daemons since their first codex. I also started a carcharodon museum quality display army since the badab books (thank god I got two sets of transfer sheets before they killed those).

However I have always had a love for the Black Templar army... their colors, fluff, etc, is just plain gorgeous. I had purchased the 6th edition successor codex which was very proud of (and bears a Templar on the front!). I also amassed a large amount of templar bits and finally started my black Templar army a week ago to the doom that they were not going to be in the codex.

Well, I am glad to see they are in the codex, but their codex is the only one with art I will complain about. The centurion on the back = cool, the orange page edges = cool, the naked ultramarine of the front... wtf GW!

GW definitely could have done a better job here... how about the walking crimson fist dude from the 4th edition core rule book? Or Grimaldus?

Rule One is Be Polite. Stop calling each other aplogists and haters and trolls, etc. None of that qualifies as a relevant part of discussion and it is against our rules. Keep the argument about points rather than people. Thanks.

So far nothing I've seen leaked has made a convincing case for buying the new book. I'm not going to buy the new models, so I don't need rules for Eviscerators or Grav on Devs. The formations don't seem very interesting as of yet. Maybe something cool will be revealed this week. Otherwise $58 for a few minor changes to the codex seems quite steep.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I doubt the Command Tanks will be in there. We would have probably have seen them on the website by now. If they are, hopefully we will get Grav Razorbacks since the turret fits.

Especially as both are basically Forgeworld units, and GW said it would stop stealing forgeworld units for the codex. Thought the Landraider looked very different than the FW version, the rhino is still a Damocles HQ rhino with extra dish.

Hm,, New assault squad is more points due to loss of free drop pod and new dev kit has 40pt grav cannons? Is GW trying to make the new kits invalid?

Very confusing way to boost a new SM book but then again GW simply refuses to be creative with SMs.

Combi weapons on the dev Sarg is a nice upgrade. Also the magnetive able combi on the sprue will be much desired for Sternguard builders.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I doubt the Command Tanks will be in there. We would have probably have seen them on the website by now. If they are, hopefully we will get Grav Razorbacks since the turret fits.

Datamining actually had them listed.

I was very much hoping for something to boost up the Tacticals, Assaults, Tac Termis and Dreads. As those are my favourite SM units. I'm still remaining hopeful there is something we havent seen to change up or boost these guys until I can read the new book however.

I will be buying the new Dex (already pre ordered it) as my FLGS uses current rules for all so if I want to play SM I need it, simple as that.

And regardless of if they are "playable" I'll still try with my preferred SM units.

Overall I'm still excited about the new book.

 Kirasu wrote:
Hm,, New assault squad is more points due to loss of free drop pod and new dev kit has 40pt grav cannons? Is GW trying to make the new kits invalid?

Very confusing way to boost a new SM book but then again GW simply refuses to be creative with SMs.

New units are always a good test for the competence of rule writers, and GW ones fail more often than they succeed. It's only when they have 15+ years of experience with an unit, that they get it approximately right and sometimes not even then (Terminators).