New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby

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**rybackstun**

Someone wake me up when we get some confirmation about what BTs are going to be getting/losing.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Well they'll be existing... so that's something

**Yodhrin**

Crimson Devil wrote:
You know it is funny that the White Scars and Iron Hands have two of the most popular chapter tactics yet their Limited Editions are two of the last to sell out in the US. lol

A lot of us bought the Iron Hands special edition last time around, for myself I thought I was rewarding GW for finally paying the chapter some attention, which is technically true, if "gutting the chapter's background of everything that made the fans like them in the first place and turning them into a chapter of petty passive-aggressive spankers" counts as attention.

I doubt many will be making the same mistake twice.

**MajorWesJanson**

Unlike eldar, where everything got turned up to 12, marines seem to be staying about the same as the last book.

**Talys**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Unlike eldar, where everything got turned up to 12, marines seem to be staying about the same as the last book.

Oh, I wouldn't count GW out just yet

There have essentially been zero leaks, and we already know that SM get 35 point drop pods in the FA slot -- that's huge, all by itself. Cuts down the need to ally for taxi service and in a competitive space lets you take another ally detachment. Also, Devastators (and probably Tacs) can get Grav Cannons with amps, which is potentially huge (points cost matters, and special rules & formations matter even more). ASM lost the free drop pod, and barring some amazing formation, will probably still suck... but who plays vanilla Space Marines and takes ASM.

Oh yes, and we also know that it's possible to run the same Combat Doctrines more than once, another potentially massive buff. How many times have Ultramarines won on their CTs? Now, just imagine, they can use the same CT again. If you could get Relentless 2-3 times, Devastators suddenly look a lot better. If you can reroll all failed hits on Tacticals a few times, they don't look so bad anymore.

There are tank squads that will do Special Things, but we don't know what. Some of them might be good. But all it takes is for GW to underestimate ONE buffed unit/formation/combination, and there goes the farm.

Devil's in the details, man.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

TedNugent wrote:
Why did I buy the worst armies in 40k.

Are you still talking about Dark Angels? You are such a joker!

Formosa wrote:
Thats because you know the fluff, the fluff means nothing to someone looking at the shelf and seeing feudal knights and knights templar, all they will see is 2 slightly different types of knight, both with robes, tabards etc.

Unlike,say, Blood Angels and normal marines. If you look at the shelf, you will see red marines and other color marines and therefore instantly get the huge difference between the two armies.

**-Shrike-**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
Why did I buy the worst armies in 40k.

Are you still talking about Dark Angels? You are such a joker!

Formosa wrote:
Thats because you know the fluff, the fluff means nothing to someone looking at the shelf and seeing feudal knights and knights templar, all they will see is 2 slightly different types of knight, both with robes, tabards etc.

Unlike,say, Blood Angels and normal marines. If you look at the shelf, you will see red marines and other color marines and therefore instantly get the huge difference between the two armies.

Not sure if serious... but by looking at Blood Angels, you see red marines looking angry, swinging lots of sharp things around, with blood everywhere. That's enough to get the basic gist of the army.

**angelofvengeance**

Got my Dark Angels transfer sheet today- Beautiful doesn't do it justice. Truly awesome stuff they're knocking out at GW towers decals wise. No more of this silly fething cutting around the transfers nonsense for me. Looks like you can be as rough-arsed as you like now, as they've only coated the images and not the entire sheet they're on.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

-Shrike- wrote:
by looking at Blood Angels, you see red marines looking angry

Looking angry? From the self? How?

-Shrike- wrote:
swinging lots of sharp things around

I can very, very easily build a normal marine army where lots of people are swinging a lot of sharp things around, and a blood angel army where almost nobody swings sharp things around. Actually, I remember facing blood angel armies where I literally only saw some vehicles in front of me. And those that were transport carried people with more guns than sharp stuff.
Also, if we are using this as an argument, Black Templar can have their basic units literally full of people swinging chainsaws around. while dark angels are not that much about chainsawing people.

-Shrike- wrote:
with blood everywhere.

So, you are putting blood everywhere on your blood angels? Does that not look a bit… ridiculous and too much over the top? In a bad way?

Seriously, I cannot see how Black Templar could be considered too close from Dark Angels visually, while the Blood Angels are considered visually different enough from normal marines.

**Floyd73**

Just got my BA decal sheet in the post and am a bit confused....no regular marine sized shoulder pad chapter markings? Theres terminator and scout sizes but no regular. WTF?

**angelofvengeance**

Floyd73 wrote:
Just got my BA decal sheet in the post and am a bit confused....no regular marine sized shoulder pad chapter markings? Theres terminator and scout sizes but no regular. WTF?

Umm.. They aren't strictly for terminators. Those will fit on tac squads too.

**Floyd73**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Floyd73 wrote:
Just got my BA decal sheet in the post and am a bit confused....no regular marine sized shoulder pad chapter markings? Theres terminator and scout sizes but no regular. WTF?

Umm.. They aren't strictly for terminators. Those will fit on tac squads too.

Thanks. Not too happy they've increased the size, the old sizing was perfect.

**angelofvengeance**

Besides as a BA player, I'm not sure what there is to complain about in that regard since you've been showered with shiny shiny bling shoulder pads in all your chapter specific stuff lol.

**Jangus**

Whoopsie.

**Crimson**

People looking for information on the new codex should check out this B&C thread.

**Formosa**

-Shrike- wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
Why did I buy the worst armies in 40k.

Are you still talking about Dark Angels? You are such a joker!

Formosa wrote:
Thats because you know the fluff, the fluff means nothing to someone looking at the shelf and seeing feudal knights and knights templar, all they will see is 2 slightly different types of knight, both with robes, tabards etc.

Unlike,say, Blood Angels and normal marines. If you look at the shelf, you will see red marines and other color marines and therefore instantly get the huge difference between the two armies.

Not sure if serious... but by looking at Blood Angels, you see red marines looking angry, swinging lots of sharp things around, with blood everywhere. That's enough to get the basic gist of the army.

Yeah not sure if serious too.

Wolves at first glance: vikings in space
Blood angels at first glance: renaissance looking, blood obsessed, angelic
Dark angels at first glance: monastic knights, robes, cool looking knight characters.
Ultramarines at first glance: Romans in space
Black templars at first glance: robes, knights templar, cool looking knight characters.

All told to me by my niece, and she know nothing about 40k, this is how I came to the conclusion in the first place.

**KurtAngle2**

Iuchiban from Warseer (the one that spoiled many rules from several codices before they had been released) is going to post scan from his new Space Marines codex. He's at work not and will be back later this day

**JuniorRS13**

Crimson wrote:
People looking for information on the new codex should check out this B&C thread.

Some good stuff in there. Still curious about all the characters.

**-Shrike-**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
swinging lots of sharp things around

I can very, very easily build a normal marine army where lots of people are swinging a lot of sharp things around, and a blood angel army where almost nobody swings sharp things around. Actually, I remember facing blood angel armies where I literally only saw some vehicles in front of me. And those that were transport carried people with more guns than sharp stuff.
Also, if we are using this as an argument, Black Templar can have their basic units literally full of people swinging chainsaws around. while dark angels are not that much about chainsawing people.

You've missed the fething point. Of the Blood Angels specific units, how many of them involve hacking the enemy to bits, or getting very close to set them on fire? So what if you can build your close combat orientated army into a gunline?

-Shrike- wrote:
with blood everywhere.

So, you are putting blood everywhere on your blood angels? Does that not look a bit… ridiculous and too much over the top? In a bad way?

Seriously, I cannot see how Black Templar could be considered too close from Dark Angels visually, while the Blood Angels are considered visually different enough from normal marines.

1) This is 40k, where fascist psychopaths drive around in futuristic tanks to hit people with a sword. OTT is the status quo.

2) I was actually referring to the names and the iconography. Blood Angels (like Space Wolves and their wolfy stuff) have a lot of things with 'blood' in their name, and all of their upgrade kits have a drop of blood somewhere.
3) Because the distinction between Teutonic knights and Knights Templar is lost on most people, but insane BLOOD marines are different enough from the Roman style Ultramarines.

**CrashGordon94**

Crimson wrote:People looking for information on the new codex should check out this B&C thread.

So they still can do Bikes as Troops? Well, hopefully this implies that the Dark Angels will keep their X as Troops rules too...

**Warhams-77**

Compiled B&C SM codex info - via Warseer

new info from b&c(russ):

I have seen the new Marine Codex the command tanks are not in it. Tac Squads can take Grav, All dreadnoughts now have 4 base attacks. Only LOW is Calgar. No master of the Forge but Techmarines can take Conversion Beamers. Iron Hand Chapter Tactics now add +1 to feel no pain. Raven Guard lost Scout but now get Shrouded turn 1 and +1 to roll for Night fight. Most others stay similar. Any other questions i'll try my best to answer.

Sallies get 4+ FNP against flame weapons and preroll to wound with them. Scars can no longer scout land raiders. Templars can't take Librarians and get rage if they take damage from shooting the previous turn or overwatch. Bolter Drill can use special ammo now. Tac Doctrine lets tac squads reroll all hits in shooting and assault.

Formations looked ok nothing amazing. The termi one can DS from turn 1. No assault marine formation. Bike are troops if you take any HQ on a bike, no need to be five man now. Temis squads of both kinds got a 5 point drop but TH SS cost the same as before after buying the upgrade for them. Centurions are pretty much the same. Ultras get the 3 doctrines other chapters can use the tac one once a game if they take the decurian which is call Gladius Strike force.

no change in relics

Templars get counter attack too after getting shot. Other armies only get the tac doc if they take the extra expensive formations. The docs look a lot better Ultras probably have the best chapter tactics still. Twin links grav centurions in pods seems scary. Chapter Master is now an upgrade for a captain.

Basically they all allow to reroll ones for either shooting or assault depending on which one it is. Tacs reroll everything for the tac doc. Assault marines and assault centurions reroll all hits in combat for assault. Devs and Dev centurions reroll shooting to hit for theirs.

More from B&C

-Templars get counter attack too after getting shot.
-Other armies (not UM) only get the tac doc if they take the extra expensive formations.
-The docs look a lot better Ultras probably have the best chapter tactics still.Twin links grav centurions in pods seems scarey.
-Chapter Master is now an upgrade for a captain.
And regarding doctrines
Basically they all allow to reroll ones for either shooting or assault depending on which one it is. Tacs reroll everything for the tac doc. Assault marines and assault centurions reroll all hits in combat for assault. Devs and Dev centurions reroll shooting to hit for theirs.

[User comment, not from B&C source Russ] So,from what i understand of it,the UM trait IS the doctrines,one use each as in the old codex.If an UM army uses the formations that enables other chapters use the doctrines,they get more uses instead.

The best formation from what I saw is strike force ultra. Can arrive turn 1 get +1 shot if ds or +1 a if assault from a vehicle.

All vehicles can squadron you get bonus if you take 3. Whirlwinds get shred and pinning. Preds get monster and tank hunter.

Again,B&C

-Honour Guard are still there can be in units of 10 and can take raiders as transport.
-There is a Raider formation.
-Both anti air tanks got better, the stalker can fire twice at 2 targets or can be twin linked.
-Signum no change.
-Vanguard can reroll charge distance,1 or both dice,and ignore disordered charge.
-Most Character stayed the same,
-Emperor's Champion got a buff always s6 ap2 now.
-Telion is now a HQ.He is an IC.
-So is Cronos,he has 2 wounds and can join a unit if his tank is destroyed.
-Techmarines all have 2 wounds now.
-TFC can be taken in squadrons, if you have 3 you get +1 BS.

Same source as above

-Calgar can pick his Warlord Trait from the marine list the best one being FNP.
- Shrike and any jump unit he joins can infiltrate.
-Vulcan master crafts melt weapons.
-Khan gives scout to bikes rhinos and razors.
-No Iron Hand character.
-Lysander has 4 wounds and Eternal warrior still and Fist or Dorn is +6S. Fist is still unwieldy.
-Kantor makes Sternguards objective secured
-Helbrecth gives all units Hatred and Fleet once per game.
-Sicarius lets you effect reserves and give one tac squad a usr.
-Kahn, Sicarius and Him still only ap3.

-Honour Guard and Command Squads are Elites now you don't need characters to take them.
-All termis are 5 cheaper TH SS upgrade is 5 points more.
-You can take a librarian formation where one librarian can know any of the powers the others have if they don't cast and warp charges are on 3+

**General Hobbs**

Ravenguard got shafted :(

Looks like I might have to do my counts as Deathwatch army, since bolter drill is rumored to count for special ammo.

Love how Bolter and Chainsword shut down the rumor thread that the guy was answering questions on. The Mods there are such tools. They aren't cool like the Mods here.

**Kanluwen**

...Hrmh.

They gave them the Dark Angels Librarius Conclave formation--just without requiring Ezekiel and without the "Focused Interromancy" rule.

Hopefully Dark Angels get their own formation in their book.

**Requizen**

General Hobbs wrote:

Ravenguard got shafted :(

Looks like I might have to do my counts as Deathwatch army, since bolter drill is rumored to count for special ammo.

Bleh, I know. Last edition, Scout made them fairly worthwhile except that Kahn did the same thing for Scars... now they don't have it and he still does it. So much for being the sneaky, first strike type army. Shrouded turn 1 isn't bad... but that's pretty gakky compared to some of the other ones. Shrike looks somewhat better, I guess.

I hope they're missing something :\

I'd probably go Ultramarines (well, a successor) at this point.

**Bharring**

Did UM Dev tactics lose Relentless plus reroll snapshots Tactics-wide? (Sure, twinlink devs is by-the-numbers better, but feels a lot less... awesome.)

**SickSix**

Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.

**Nevelon**

SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.

It’s not like the HS slot wasn’t crowded before. It will be interesting to see if the squadron bonuses are going to be worth the points dedicated to getting 3x the units. It’s going to end up being a chunk of your army sunk in big units. For the cheaper tanks, sure. But even with the bonuses, I don’t see taking 3x preds or vindis.

**casvalremdeikun**

SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.

I know. Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter on the Preds will make for some easy Wraithknight murder.

3 TLLC plus 6 LC shots rerolling sounds? Yes please!

**kronk**

Nevelon wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.

It’s not like the HS slot wasn’t crowded before.

Looks like they made some room moving the Crusader and redeemer to the FA slot, not that those were taken in droves before.

**CrashGordon94**

Kanluwen wrote:
...Hrmh.

They gave them the Dark Angels Librarius Conclave formation--just without requiring Ezekiel and without the "Focused Interromancy" rule.

Hopefully Dark Angels get their own formation in their book.

Well, I suppose Deathwing/Ravenwing/DeathRaven formations would be good enough, just as long as my Biker/Termie heavy planned army isn't screwed.