New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby

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**Chief Librarian Mephiston**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.
I know. Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter on the Preds will make for some easy Wraithknight murder.

3 TLLC plus 6 LC shots rerolling sounds? Yes please!

The Wraithknight's a Gargantuan Creature. Doesn't Monster Hunter affect only Monstrous Creatures?

**Bartali**

General Hobbs wrote:

Ravenguard got shafted :(

Looks like I might have to do my counts as Deathwatch army, since bolter drill is rumored to count for special ammo.

Love how Bolter and Chainsword shut down the rumor thread that the guy was answering questions on. The Mods there are such tools. They aren't cool like the Mods here.

I facepalmed. You have a guy with an early codex for the faction you've built your website for, and they shut down the thread. Some people need to be a little less precious about discussion of toy soldiers on the internets.

**Chief Librarian Mephiston**

Yeah, that was totally absurd on their part.

**casvalremdeikun**

Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.
I know. Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter on the Preds will make for some easy Wraithknight murder.

3 TLLC plus 6 LC shots rerolling sounds? Yes please!

The Wraithknight's a Gargantuan Creature. Doesn't Monster Hunter affect only Monstrous Creatures?

Gargantuan Creatures are Monstrous Creatures as well. They just have some additional rules.

**Nevelon**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.
I know. Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter on the Preds will make for some easy Wraithknight murder.

3 TLLC plus 6 LC shots rerolling sounds? Yes please!

Yes, but is it 420 points (give or take, if they get changed) good? Without splitfire you only get to shoot one thing a turn. Sure, you are going to vaporize it, but how many things require that level of firepower? Facing a list without a giant juicy target, you are going to have problems. Plus you have the problems that face preds these days, weak side/back armor, the ability to move/fire effectively, etc.

I think a trio of whirlwinds at ~200 points is going to end up being a more practical option for most play. Ot TFCs. Possibly the AA tanks.

I was thinking about the low end preds and wondering if there was a place for them in a squadron? 3x Dakka preds (AC/HB) is less then 300 points (current pricing) and can put a lot of shots downrange. Does the addition of monster/tank hunter make it more worthwhile? Is 225 too overpriced for 3 naked preds with just the ACs up top? It will be interesting to get the new book and get into details.

**Kalashnichris**

Think the Stormwing formation will be in the codex or at least a valid formation? I've done ok with it.

**casvalremdeikun**

Nevelon wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Sounds like SM will be rolling heavy on the HS options now. I might actually have to get a third Predator and a 3rd Vindicator.
I know. Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter on the Preds will make for some easy Wraithknight murder.

3 TLLC plus 6 LC shots rerolling sounds? Yes please!

Yes, but is it 420 points (give or take, if they get changed) good? Without splitfire you only get to shoot one thing a turn. Sure, you are going to vaporize it, but how many things require that level of firepower? Facing a list without a giant juicy target, you are going to have problems. Plus you have the problems that face preds these days, weak side/back armor, the ability to move/fire effectively, etc.

I think a trio of whirlwinds at ~200 points is going to end up being a more practical option for most play. Ot TFCs. Possibly the AA tanks.

I was thinking about the low end preds and wondering if there was a place for them in a squadron? 3x Dakka preds (AC/HB) is less then 300 points (current pricing) and can put a lot of shots downrange. Does the addition of monster/tank hunter make it more worthwhile? Is 225 too overpriced for 3 naked preds with just the ACs up top? It will be interesting to get the new book and get into details.

Allegedly the AA tanks have Interceptor and the Stalker has Ignore Cover while in a squadron. For 225 pts, that is a pretty good anti-air platform. You are right about the Predator, but not a whole lot of stuff is going to get behind it before it annihilates(ha) multiple targets. If Squadrons don't have to fire at the same target, you could actually do some useful stuff.

I am actually looking forward to Bolted Drill affecting Sternguard Special Ammunition. Best little change to the IF Tactics.

**Bharring**

Does Skyfire allow full BS vs Jetbikes?

They'll already do a number on DE and CW Eldar tanks.

**Lord Lorne Walkier**

Now i get why Corax left. He got sick of GW 10k years ago. I feel like a sucker for getting my hopes up. Glad i did not get the Special Ed.

**Nevelon**

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Allegedly the AA tanks have Interceptor and the Stalker has Ignore Cover while in a squadron. For 225 pts, that is a pretty good anti-air platform. You are right about the Predator, but not a whole lot of stuff is going to get behind it before it annihilates(ha) multiple targets. If Squadrons don't have to fire at the same target, you could actually do some useful stuff.

I am actually looking forward to Bolted Drill affecting Sternguard Special Ammunition. Best little change to the IF Tactics.

If by “best little change” you mean “making one of the better units in the codex even better” I’m there with you. Bolter drill eliminates most of the problem with vengeance rounds, and turns hellfire into “all hits, all wounds, make a zillion armor saves” (OK that’s a slight exaggeration, but close) I’m not going to re-paint my army or anything, but if that’s true, I’m a little envious of the Sons of Dorn.

Which is wrong. Ultramarines’ sin is pride, not envy.

**warboss**

I like that techmarines are 2 wounds now like the other non-chain of command specialists like librarians and chaplains. Too bad that doesn't apply retroactively to BA and SW though.

**Chief Librarian Mephiston**

I'm starting to regret my Special Edition purchase, too, although not as much as I would if I were a Raven Guard player. From all reports, it doesn't sound like a whole lot got changed. I was certainly expecting a better Assault Squad with the new box, but instead we ended up with an already bad unit getting a slight nerf, and now Raven Guard with already bad Chapter Tactics taking a slight nerf as well. I really wish someone would post more details about the Decurion detachment and the various Formations, to see if that at least is worthwhile.

**casvalremdeikun**

Bharring wrote:
Does Skyfire allow full BS vs Jetbikes?

They'll already do a number on DE and CW Eldar tanks.

I wish they did, but for some reason they don't. Rules inconsistency number....8294.

**Crazyterran**

Nevelon wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Allegedly the AA tanks have Interceptor and the Stalker has Ignore Cover while in a squadron. For 225 pts, that is a pretty good anti-air platform. You are right about the Predator, but not a whole lot of stuff is going to get behind it before it annihilates(ha) multiple targets. If Squadrons don't have to fire at the same target, you could actually do some useful stuff.

I am actually looking forward to Bolted Drill affecting Sternguard Special Ammunition. Best little change to the IF Tactics.

If by “best little change” you mean “making one of the better units in the codex even better” I’m there with you. Bolter drill eliminates most of the problem with vengeance rounds, and turns hellfire into “all hits, all wounds, make a zillion armor saves” (OK that’s a slight exaggeration, but close) I’m not going to re-paint my army or anything, but if that’s true, I’m a little envious of the Sons of Dorn.

Which is wrong. Ultramarines’ sin is pride, not envy.

Speaking of Ultramarines, I wish I saw that thread before they locked it; I need to know how Tigurius changes.

The most used Special Character in Codex: Space Marines, and nobody asks about him. Gahh.

**Requizen**

Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote:
I'm starting to regret my Special Edition purchase, too, although not as much as I would if I were a Raven Guard player. From all reports, it doesn't sound like a whole lot got changed. I was certainly expecting a better Assault Squad with the new box, but instead we ended up with an already bad unit getting a slight nerf, and now Raven Guard with already bad Chapter Tactics taking a slight nerf as well. I really wish someone would post more details about the Decurion detachment and the various Formations, to see if that at least is worthwhile.

The guy who has done most of the previous Codex leaks on Warseer has the SM codex, and there's another guy on there doing things now.

Leman Russ SW on Warseer:

Only Calgar is LOW all others are HQ

Raven Guard get shrouded till the start of turn 2
Jump packs can still be used for movement and assault and get rerolls, I believe all units and Dreadnoughts get shrouded but not 100%

>Are Honor guards' rules changed? Do they still come with Art. armor, bolter, pistol and Power weapon? Thanks in advance, Leman Russ SW!
Still the same, get raider as transport, units of up to 10, can take relic blades and Champion can take Hammer.

If you take a full company all dedicated transports are free

You have to take a Demi company which is Captain or Chaplian, 3 Tac Squads, 1 Dev Squad or Dev Centurion Squad, one Assault, bike or Assault Centurion Squad then you can take different Auxiliary detachments. The Demi Company allows you to use the Tactical Doctrine once per game. Most of the Auxiliary detachment can be take on their own as a formation.

Didn't check scout bikes, if you take the scout formation they all get precision shot first turn and any turn they don't do anything they get shrouded.

Only Compulsory in gladius is a demi company, there are lots of auxiliaries you can take. No free stuff unless you take a full company then you get free dedicated transport.

Gadius is the name of the Decurion style formation the only thing you have to take is a demi company there are lots of options to take most of the stuff in the codex with it. heavy bolsters are not free neither is flakk.

**Experiment 626**

While the pts drop on Termies is welcomed, I think the biggest issue with them whether or not they're still stuck at only 1 heavy weapon unless they go for the full 10 man squad... if they could take 2 heavies for 6-10 strong squads, that would most certainly help significantly boost them back into seeing regular table time.

**Requizen**

Pred are in squadrons, Auto Canon still the same but if you take 3 you get monster and tank hunter.

**Mr Morden**

Looks like this will help people be happier with the Eldar Dex - oh wait...............

Wonder why they took out Master of the Forge?

Looks a pretty lazy update?

Would have been nice for First Founding Chapters like Raven Guard and Salamanders to get a single signature unique unit - we Know they have stealth squads and elite Terminators respectively................

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'm wanting more on the Chapter Tactics myself.

**warboss**

Mr Morden wrote:

Wonder why they took out Master of the Forge?

When you make the regular techmarine 2 wounds and give him the conversion beamer access, I suspect you pretty much covered 95% of why folks took the master of the forge. The tech will be a MOTF in all but probably one stat like LD or attacks.

**casvalremdeikun**

I hope they didn't make the Command Squad have to take the Company Champion and Apothecary like the BA Command Squad. I have no desire to take the stupid Company Champion. If the rumor is true and they are Elites, it kinda sucks but at least I can run a Command Squad with Pedro Kantor without having to take a Captain.

Edit: From the user's response, it looks like the Apothecary and Champ are still upgrades, so that is great.

**Nevelon**

warboss wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

Wonder why they took out Master of the Forge?

When you make the regular techmarine 2 wounds and give him the conversion beamer access, I suspect you pretty much covered 95% of why folks took the master of the forge. The tech will be a MOTF in all but probably one stat like LD or attacks.

I wonder if they will keep the dread FOC swapping. Guessing no, but <shrug>

**pretre**

Wait, if I take a full company, all transports are free? Shut the front door.

**SharkoutofWata**

warboss wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

Wonder why they took out Master of the Forge?

When you make the regular techmarine 2 wounds and give him the conversion beamer access, I suspect you pretty much covered 95% of why folks took the master of the forge. The tech will be a MOTF in all but probably one stat like LD or attacks.

My Astral Claws laugh at this update. We have a Special Character MotF, so that role is still filled. No demotions for my army.

**Las**

I dunno, I'm gonna wait on most of these. Not that I don't believe this guy per se, but he's going from memory. I think that these should be taken with salt, even if they are mostly correct.

**casvalremdeikun**

pretre wrote:
Wait, if I take a full company, all transports are free? Shut the front door.

Too bad you are paying like 2500 pts to get it on the field.

**Leth**

pretre wrote:
Wait, if I take a full company, all transports are free? Shut the front door.

All the land raiders!!!!

Unless the chapter tactics are pretty sweet the Demi company doesn't seem worth losing objective secured for. Will have to see if there are detachment bonuses as well as specific formation bonuses as well.

**pretre**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
pretre wrote:
Wait, if I take a full company, all transports are free? Shut the front door.
Too bad you are paying like 2500 pts to get it on the field.

Cheap HQ - 75
6 Tactical Squads - 840
3 Assault Squads - 420
3 Dev Squads - 420
That's 1755. Then add a butt-ton of points in transports for free. What 12 Razorbacks?

I guess it depends on what they define as a 'full company' though.

**Looky Likey**

Leth wrote:
pretre wrote:
Wait, if I take a full company, all transports are free? Shut the front door.

All the land raiders!!!!

Unless the chapter tactics are pretty sweet the Demi company doesn't seem worth losing objective secured for. Will have to see if there are detachment bonuses as well as specific formation bonuses as well.

BT Crusader squads with LRCs with free LRCs,

**MasterSlowPoke**

A full company will probably by

1 Captain
1 Chaplain
1 Command Squad
2 Dreads
6 Tactical Squads
2 Assault Squads
2 Dev Squads

100 marine bodies is 1300 points, so that leaves 550/700 points for the command models and upgrades at 1850/700. Probably not doable at 1850 but you might be able to squeeze something into 2k.

Looky Likey wrote:
BT Crusader squads with LRCs with free LRCs,

Crusader squads probably won't be an option.