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And why hasn't GW released black female space marine!?!

I'm sick of the man trying to keep us down!!!

No justice no peace...

Ah I love the smell of cultural marxism in the morning.

No other smell like it in the world.

I honestly don't give a crap if gw don't paint there minatures black who gives a feck seriously this isn't the problem the true problem is why any one thinks any one else other than them selves must or should paint there miniatures multi cultural its OK to be white you know just as much as it is to be any other colour of skin.

You know what would happen in a game if we all painted a team of multi racial marines as soon as you use snipers to kill one even if it's a legit target like the guys holding a plasma gun but happens to be painted black some one some where would call you racist for doing it . I am sorry but its a game nothing more so feck all race crap or hard feelings my guys are white because I want them to be and it fits in with the fluff of my dark eldar being pale.

I have to say as well I have never seen a black skin tone painted well at all seen a few beautiful Japanese and Chinese skin tones think the models where from infinite but not seen a decent black skin tone at all.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Do you know what is silly? Vikings riding wolves. Some Viking riding an antigrav sledge that is tracted by wolves.

Yes, but so is shoehorning in a variety of genders into a theme based around white people. Instead ask for a chapter to be more represented of a differing culture.

There is a Space Marine chapter I saw once in GW fluff that are based of The Maori people in NZ. They had the moko designs on their army and everything. GW has all these cultures in the fluff to use, but instead the popular ones happen to be white or alien. (Oh gee, wonder why...)

So instead ask for the other cultures to be represented if you desire, dont simply demand the other ones change.

I am pretty sure thats all he is arguing for. Its what I prefer as well.

Yes just ask for a new cool faction/ subfaction representing whatever you want to see represented instead of stretching the already stretched themes, for no apparent reason other than selective overreaction.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
You can make up reasons for racism being alive and kicking in 40th millenium, wasnt there a book about genocide of natives to make place for new Imperial settlers? I find the idea that just external threat would eradicate racism in a world like that a bit naive tbh.

And you're missing the point: racism isn't gone in 40k, it just has a new target. The Imperium's attitude towards non-humans would make the average KKK member look like a reasonable moderate, and genociding an entire non-human civilization to make room for human settlers is exactly what we'd expect. It just isn't plausible that the Imperium would care about the same racism that existed 40,000 years ago in a completely different society.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think the issue many have missed is how many of the cultures that are popular in 40k are actually taken from white culture inspiration. I think Tallarn are the only ones who of our current selection that should feature middle easterners. The rest are taken from white cultures.

This isn't true at all. Catachans are the Vietnam-era US army in space, and that was certainly not an all-white culture. Cadians are generic scifi soldiers with no real-world cultural inspiration. DKoK have uniforms taken from real WWI designs, but their culture has nothing to do with it (and no culture like it ever existed in the real world). Elysians are generic scifi soldiers like Cadians. So of the four IG regiments that GW currently produces none of them have this supposed "white culture" inspiration.

Ive been playing 40k since the the early 90's.

In that roughly 25 years I have known a number of non-white players and collectors. I have never heard any of them raise this issue. Thinking back on it I don't remember any of them going out of their way to include non-white models.

I do however recall a number of obnoxious white douches who did it, and for all the wrong reasons...

I knew a black guy that played space wolves and he painted them all in the traditional manner. Should I phone him up and inform him he's a racist because he didn't paint his tiny men dark enough?

@CT GAMER

No, of course not. But, you would be equally wrong to take offense of people who do paint them in non white colour and want them to be various sex. That's the issue there. We are not trying to prevent people from having an army painted the way they want with the model they want with the sex they want.

I would like to have Cadian females since there is a lot of them in the fluff, but I can't because GW doesn't make any. I would also like to have better paint tutorials for other shade of skin beside white, but I don't have them either. The problem isn't what you do with your stuff. The problem is your opposition to me having more options for my stuff. That's the point we are trying to make.

Also, when we ask the reasons for your dislike of diversity in artwork, models and paints we receive only excuses based on traditionnalist and rather bigoted point of views. If you want your army to be true to their cultural inspiration, then Space Wolf need females for 10 to 20% of the viking raiders were women, they have mythological figures like valkyries who were all women too. Ultramarines are greeko-roman so were are their females greeko-roman mythologie is filled with warrior women most notable of them all the Amazons. The Dark Angels and Black Templar are knights. Female in disguise has knights is a popular thrope in medieval strories from the early songs of Robin Hood to Knig Arthur's court which counted both a muslim guy and two women at the round table and we aren't counting women who indeed went to battle has knights. Viet-nam war inspired guardsmen? Were are the South Vietnamese? Even the cultures from which these armies draw inspirations were more diverse then what we see. W

 Swastakowey wrote:
Yes, but so is shoehorning in a variety of genders into a theme based around white people.

Genders? Vikings?
http://www.tor.com/2014/09/02/female-viking-warriors-proof-swords/

 CT GAMER wrote:
Never heard of it.

I put a link on my previous message.

 CT GAMER wrote:
So are you claiming that people/groups have never made weakly backed claims of perceived racism/racial bias in mass media and entertainment content(movies, TV, etc )?

Maybe they have, but it is nowhere as prevalent as you make it to be.

 CT GAMER wrote:
I knew a black guy that played space wolves and he painted them all in the traditional manner. Should I phone him up and inform him he's a racist because he didn't paint his tiny men dark enough?

Has he lectured you on how you should not paint your space wolves blacks, or how GW should not do it?

What I don't understand is why it s a sensitive issue. Black, white, male female, as long as the minis look cool, I'm game

@Gordon Shumway

I completly agree with you, but some need some convincing and other some reassuring.

gw is white.
the majority of the market is white.
warhammer is a power fantasy.
power fantasy's need to relate to the market.

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
You can make up reasons for racism being alive and kicking in 40th millenium, wasnt there a book about genocide of natives to make place for new Imperial settlers? I find the idea that just external threat would eradicate racism in a world like that a bit naive tbh.

And you're missing the point: racism isn't gone in 40k, it just has a new target. The Imperium's attitude towards non-humans would make the average KKK member look like a reasonable moderate, and genociding an entire non-human civilization to make room for human settlers is exactly what we'd expect. It just isn't plausible that the Imperium would care about the same racism that existed 40,000 years ago in a completely different society.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think the issue many have missed is how many of the cultures that are popular in 40k are actually taken from white culture inspiration. I think Tallarn are the only ones who of our current selection that should feature middle easterners. The rest are taken from white cultures.

This isn't true at all. Catachans are the Vietnam-era US army in space, and that was certainly not an all-white culture. Cadians are generic scifi soldiers with no real-world cultural inspiration. DKoK have uniforms taken from real WWI designs, but their culture has nothing to do with it (and no culture like it ever existed in the real world). Elysians are generic scifi soldiers like Cadians. So of the four IG regiments that GW currently produces none of them have this supposed "white culture" inspiration.

True I suppose.

I still would rather cultures be shown through bringing back the old stuff which had heaps of cool cultures. It was the theme of the Guard, all the cultures from their respective planets coming together (sometimes with difficulty) to fight its enemies. I would say though, that GW fluff as far as I can tell, has planets made entirely of one race and culture.

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
You can make up reasons for racism being alive and kicking in 40th millenium, wasnt there a book about genocide of natives to make place for new Imperial settlers? I find the idea that just external threat would eradicate racism in a world like that a bit naive tbh.

And you're missing the point: racism isn't gone in 40k, it just has a new target. The Imperium's attitude towards non-humans would make the average KKK member look like a reasonable moderate, and genociding an entire non-human civilization to make room for human settlers is exactly what we'd expect. It just isn't plausible that the Imperium would care about the same racism that existed 40,000 years ago in a completely different society.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think the issue many have missed is how many of the cultures that are popular in 40k are actually taken from white culture inspiration. I think Tallarn are the only ones who of our current selection that should feature middle easterners. The rest are taken from white cultures.

This isn't true at all. Catachans are the Vietnam-era US army in space, and that was certainly not an all-white culture. Cadians are generic scifi soldiers with no real-world cultural inspiration. DKoK have uniforms taken from real WWI designs, but their culture has nothing to do with it (and no culture like it ever existed in the real world). Elysians are generic scifi soldiers like Cadians. So of the four IG regiments that GW currently produces none of them have this supposed "white culture" inspiration.

Well the book was about human Imperials genociding human, not alien natives.

It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly. Opressed and scared individuals fueled with paranoia, living in a violent times in overcrowded places and backwards cultures, that just begs for conflicts driven by differencies including racial ones, especialy given the inherent distrust to everything different that humans seem to carry. Again, what I see is your made up reasons not the ultimately plausible version of fluff.

As for guard regiments, yes Catachans should be racialy diverse that would be in line with their theme, Arnold's squad from Predator with Rambo but 10x tougher, sounds great. You're giving too much weight to the word culture in relation to guard regiments fluff though and visual design is imo most important when it comes to theme. Id say DKoK are clearly associated with white people and Cadians are meant to be main Imperial force, with said Imperium having nods to medieval one, Soviet and Nazi regimes, WW I etc - the majority of it being based on white cultures history. Elysians I dont know tbh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@epronvost

The viking archetype is white male. Valkyries elite unit for Space Wolves? Great idea. Some women into an SW squad? Maybe, Im not sold as they soften the image of archetypical viking. Black skinned Space Wolves? Nope.

Then amazons as a separate sm unit for those greek inspired chapters, not that bad. Not something Id like to see but not immersion breaking either.

Do you really want a female in disguise thrope for black templars though heh?

Plumbumbarum wrote:
It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly. Opressed and scared individuals fueled with paranoia, living in a violent times in overcrowded places and backwards cultures, that just begs for conflicts driven by differencies including racial ones, especialy given the inherent distrust to everything different that humans seem to carry. Again, what I see is your made up reasons not the ultimately plausible version of fluff.

Ok, let's assume this is true for the sake of discussion. Why would the Imperium's racism follow the same divisions as racism from 40,000 years earlier on a long-forgotten planet and culture? Do you still have racist attitudes based on ancient Sumerian racism? The much more plausible scenario is that the targets of racism will have changed completely after 40,000 years of history, and will have nothing to do with the racism of 2015. So an accurate representation of racism in 40k might be a picture of a black guy and a white guy uniting to murder some other white guy based on prejudices that wouldn't make any sense to us.

You're giving too much weight to the word culture in relation to guard regiments fluff though and visual design is imo most important when it comes to theme.

So let me get this straight: the uniforms the DKoK soldiers wear are far more important in defining them than things like their civilization-destroying nuclear war or their obsession with martyrdom?

Cadians are meant to be main Imperial force

Yes, and their inspiration is the same old generic scifi soldiers that exist everywhere else. They have no real-world cultural inspiration behind them.

Hybrid Son of Oxyotl, I find it symptomatic that you in particular would use "hard data" like that fifty fifty viking squads link of yours

http://www.missedinhistory.com/blog/raining-on-your-parade-about-those-women-viking-warriors/

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Ah I love the smell of cultural marxism in the morning.

No other smell like it in the world.

You did not just use that term unironically...

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly. Opressed and scared individuals fueled with paranoia, living in a violent times in overcrowded places and backwards cultures, that just begs for conflicts driven by differencies including racial ones, especialy given the inherent distrust to everything different that humans seem to carry. Again, what I see is your made up reasons not the ultimately plausible version of fluff.

Ok, let's assume this is true for the sake of discussion. Why would the Imperium's racism follow the same divisions as racism from 40,000 years earlier on a long-forgotten planet and culture? Do you still have racist attitudes based on ancient Sumerian racism? The much more plausible scenario is that the targets of racism will have changed completely after 40,000 years of history, and will have nothing to do with the racism of 2015. So an accurate representation of racism in 40k might be a picture of a black guy and a white guy uniting to murder some other white guy based on prejudices that wouldn't make any sense to us.

You're giving too much weight to the word culture in relation to guard regiments fluff though and visual design is imo most important when it comes to theme.

So let me get this straight: the uniforms the DKoK soldiers wear are far more important in defining them than things like their civilization-destroying nuclear war or their obsession with martyrdom?

Cadians are meant to be main Imperial force

Yes, and their inspiration is the same old generic scifi soldiers that exist everywhere else. They have no real-world cultural inspiration behind them.

1. Why not? They have equipment looking like supercharged 20th century, maybe their racism is supercharged 20th century like as well. Im just saying that arguments can go both ways and there is no hard ultimate reason for GW to start showing all regiments as diverse because it's "more plausible".

2. Yes Id say so, especialy when it comes to their skin colour. Just like Tallarn or Catachan, uniforms facial features and skin colour should compliment themselves for at least some resembling of consistency imo.

3. Yes and no. They still operate that WW I esque equpiment and have comissairs who are clearly white people history based, though indeed there are no clear nods on Cadians themselves. Except for, ofc, all oc them being white on GWs art.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
1. Why not? They have equipment looking like supercharged 20th century, maybe their racism is supercharged 20th century like as well. Im just saying that arguments can go both ways and there is no hard ultimate reason for GW to start showing all regiments as diverse because it's "more plausible".

It's "more plausible" for the same reason that you don't have racist attitudes based on whatever racism existed in ancient Sumeria. From the point of view of 40k all of our 20th century attitudes are much more distant than the ancient Sumerians are to us.

2. Yes Id say so, especialy when it comes to their skin colour. Just like Tallarn or Catachan, uniforms facial features and skin colour should compliment themselves for at least some resembling of consistency imo.

And exactly how many DKoK have you seen without their uniforms? How do you know what race they are?

3. Yes and no. They still operate that WW I esque equpiment and have comissairs who are clearly white people history based, though indeed there are no clear nods on Cadians themselves. Except for, ofc, all oc them being white on GWs art.

So because they have one feature (commissars) that are related to a "white" culture, just like every other IG regiment, Cadians are somehow inspired by "white culture". That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Also, the only reason Cadians are always white in GW's art is that in our society the default character is almost always a straight white man, and artist who don't think about race/gender/etc very much tend to go with that default. They aren't based on any real-world race or culture where white people are an overwhelming majority.

There's nothing to fuss about, if you don't want your entire army white like GW always has them shown just paint them as you want. I've painted a darkish skinned latino Chaos Marine and a few others black. I'm white by the way, I just like cultural variety in my army. If you look as the cover of the HH book "Galaxy in Flames ", there is a black Death Guard marine right there for everyone to see.

nudibranch wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Ah I love the smell of cultural marxism in the morning.

No other smell like it in the world.

You did not just use that term unironically...

I fail to see the problem, we have already seen a bunch of other pseudo intellectual bull gak spewed from both sides here I just thought I would pile on.

The back and forth in this thread is what you'll see each and every time something like this comes up. It happened when another guy asked it, and when I asked it, and now when you asked it. It'll take a much longer time for that to change, as the norm is still, sadly, the white male.

Through my 25 years of life, I've learned that asking other people to try and see things from your or another person's point of view is pointless.
"I've never seen anyone complain about it before,"
"Their main customers are blah and blah,"
"Oh it's just a fantasy world, they can be however the creators want,"
"Why not make your own _____ instead of complaining,"

If the shoe was on the other foot, you can bet your butt the other side would be complaining and feeling the same as you do, but it's not and as is the norm with people, they only care when it directly affects them; thus all the excuses and arguments against any kind of new diversity.

This isn't a new thing that is solely 40k's, but is seen in almost all sci-fi and fantasy works by "the norm." I myself have simply just stopped asking and no longer buy or support anything that doesn't have at least some diversity. I make sure to research any books, games, movies, thoroughly before I go for it, and it honestly just makes me sad.

As a youngster my head was filled with the wonders of knights and dragons and aliens and spaceships, but I've grown more and more like my chaos space marines, jaded, frustrated, and cynical. The simple fact that in so many settings and mediums used to escape reality, it's really only for some people, not all.

There are "islands" of diversity out there, but the majority of "the world" is Europe.
Haha even said a couple times before in thread ad repeated in almost any other one about such a subject, obviously the whole world will merge into just one big western white mass of people, and not trillions of light-years, millions of years on different planets, thousands of new and differing climates, nor the gods themselves can change it apparently.

epronovost wrote:

I would like to have Cadian females since there is a lot of them in the fluff, but I can't because GW doesn't make any. I would also like to have better paint tutorials for other shade of skin beside white, but I don't have them either. The problem isn't what you do with your stuff. The problem is your opposition to me having more options for my stuff. That's the point we are trying to make.

Some people seem to have this idea that you can't add anything to the game without taking something else away, I guess.

But no, we absolutely can not have more options or include anyone else. Even one head bit rendered unusable because it was sculpted with a clearly female face instead of a billionth bald and screaming male is too much. PC GONE MAD!

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Hybrid Son of Oxyotl, I find it symptomatic that you in particular would use "hard data" like that fifty fifty viking squads link of yours

http://www.missedinhistory.com/blog/raining-on-your-parade-about-those-women-viking-warriors/

Not sure where you are going. Those were vikings. Maybe warriors or maybe not, but female vikings. And, from your very own link:
“And there is plenty of evidence that, yes, there were female Norse warriors (and neither I nor the source am saying there were not). ”
So what is wrong with female space wolves again?

I just wanted to point out the fact that wanting some diversity like female heads in IG boxes does not make you an egalitarist/leftist/excited militant.

Personnally, I don't try to force others to paint their forces in a mulitcultural way and I will never criticize them for playing a white-only army. Stating that it is what I actually do when I ask for black catachans or female bits is utterly stupid and is more a bigot reaction than anything else.

Space Marines should stay male, SW should stay vikings and should not be "multiculturalized" because their true nature is linked with medieval knights and generic Nordic barbarians.

What I and others in this thread are advocating is just "put some women and black guys where it would actually make sense" that is to say IG.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly.

As I mentioned a bunch of time itt already, it is. See mutants and abhumans. That racism has been made plain and easy for all to see and is an integral part of the setting, unlike the racism you want to see.

@Hybrid Son of Oxayotl where Im going is that you posted that obviously sensationalist and stretched article as some kind of proof that the other poster knows nothing and you have the truth in hand, while in fact I for example would be ashamed to post a link like that without a huge disclaimer. Just as I need a disclaimer now that I cant say this guy is valid for sure but he claims to be an archeologist and claims that most scholars belive that 99.9% of warriors were male

http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2013/07/29/shield-maidens-true-or-false/

Posted for the sake of balance. The sources for this are too few to draw ultimate conclusions, let alone ridiculous one like that fifty fifty claim. Also obviously it matters whether they were warriors or just wives or migrants in context of Space Wolves, do I really have to explain that?

I already posted my opinion about female sw btw:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
@epronvost

The viking archetype is white male. Valkyries elite unit for Space Wolves? Great idea. Some women into an SW squad? Maybe, Im not sold as they soften the image of archetypical viking. Black skinned Space Wolves? Nope.

Then amazons as a separate sm unit for those greek inspired chapters, not that bad. Not something Id like to see but not immersion breaking either.

Do you really want a female in disguise thrope for black templars though heh?

Plumbumbarum wrote:
The sources for this are too few to draw ultimate conclusions

Depends on what you intent on proving. If you want to prove that 50% of viking warriors were women, yes, you cannot draw that conclusion. If you want to prove that the idea of viking female warrior is not considered ridiculous by historians, then it definitely proves it. Therefore the argument that there should be no women among the space wolves because “Blah blah historical vikings blah blah and just forget about spitting acid and using jetpacks and bikes and absolutely no boat and all that” is moot.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
You can make up reasons for racism being alive and kicking in 40th millenium, wasnt there a book about genocide of natives to make place for new Imperial settlers? I find the idea that just external threat would eradicate racism in a world like that a bit naive tbh.

And you're missing the point: racism isn't gone in 40k, it just has a new target. The Imperium's attitude towards non-humans would make the average KKK member look like a reasonable moderate, and genociding an entire non-human civilization to make room for human settlers is exactly what we'd expect. It just isn't plausible that the Imperium would care about the same racism that existed 40,000 years ago in a completely different society.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think the issue many have missed is how many of the cultures that are popular in 40k are actually taken from white culture inspiration. I think Tallarn are the only ones who of our current selection that should feature middle easterners. The rest are taken from white cultures.

This isn't true at all. Catachans are the Vietnam-era US army in space, and that was certainly not an all-white culture. Cadians are generic scifi soldiers with no real-world cultural inspiration. DKoK have uniforms taken from real WWI designs, but their culture has nothing to do with it (and no culture like it ever existed in the real world). Elysians are generic scifi soldiers like Cadians. So of the four IG regiments that GW currently produces none of them have this supposed "white culture" inspiration.

Well the book was about human Imperials genociding human, not alien natives.

It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly. Opressed and scared individuals fueled with paranoia, living in a violent times in overcrowded places and backwards cultures, that just begs for conflicts driven by differencies including racial ones, especialy given the inherent distrust to everything different that humans seem to carry. Again, what I see is your made up reasons not the ultimately plausible version of fluff.

As for guard regiments, yes Catachans should be racialy diverse that would be in line with their theme, Arnold's squad from Predator with Rambo but 10x tougher, sounds great. You're giving too much weight to the word culture in relation to guard regiments fluff though and visual design is imo most important when it comes to theme. Id say DKoK are clearly associated with white people and Cadians are meant to be main Imperial force, with said Imperium having nods to medieval one, Soviet and Nazi regimes, WW I etc - the majority of it being based on white cultures history. Elysians I dont know tbh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@epronvost

The viking archetype is white male. Valkyries elite unit for Space Wolves? Great idea. Some women into an SW squad? Maybe, Im not sold as they soften the image of archetypical viking. Black skinned Space Wolves? Nope.

Then amazons as a separate sm unit for those greek inspired chapters, not that bad. Not something Id like to see but not immersion breaking either.

Do you really want a female in disguise thrope for black templars though heh?

WWI was not fought solely by white people as you erroneously imply:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/369th_Infantry_Regiment_%28United_States%29

There were numerous non white soldiers fighting in WWI. DKOK are a smorgasbord of all WWI forces so it isn't too ridiculous to have diverse DKOK.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
You can make up reasons for racism being alive and kicking in 40th millenium, wasnt there a book about genocide of natives to make place for new Imperial settlers? I find the idea that just external threat would eradicate racism in a world like that a bit naive tbh.

And you're missing the point: racism isn't gone in 40k, it just has a new target. The Imperium's attitude towards non-humans would make the average KKK member look like a reasonable moderate, and genociding an entire non-human civilization to make room for human settlers is exactly what we'd expect. It just isn't plausible that the Imperium would care about the same racism that existed 40,000 years ago in a completely different society.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think the issue many have missed is how many of the cultures that are popular in 40k are actually taken from white culture inspiration. I think Tallarn are the only ones who of our current selection that should feature middle easterners. The rest are taken from white cultures.

This isn't true at all. Catachans are the Vietnam-era US army in space, and that was certainly not an all-white culture. Cadians are generic scifi soldiers with no real-world cultural inspiration. DKoK have uniforms taken from real WWI designs, but their culture has nothing to do with it (and no culture like it ever existed in the real world). Elysians are generic scifi soldiers like Cadians. So of the four IG regiments that GW currently produces none of them have this supposed "white culture" inspiration.

Well the book was about human Imperials genociding human, not alien natives.

It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly. Opressed and scared individuals fueled with paranoia, living in a violent times in overcrowded places and backwards cultures, that just begs for conflicts driven by differencies including racial ones, especialy given the inherent distrust to everything different that humans seem to carry. Again, what I see is your made up reasons not the ultimately plausible version of fluff.

As for guard regiments, yes Catachans should be racialy diverse that would be in line with their theme, Arnold's squad from Predator with Rambo but 10x tougher, sounds great. You're giving too much weight to the word culture in relation to guard regiments fluff though and visual design is imo most important when it comes to theme. Id say DKoK are clearly associated with white people and Cadians are meant to be main Imperial force, with said Imperium having nods to medieval one, Soviet and Nazi regimes, WW I etc - the majority of it being based on white cultures history. Elysians I dont know tbh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@epronvost

The viking archetype is white male. Valkyries elite unit for Space Wolves? Great idea. Some women into an SW squad? Maybe, Im not sold as they soften the image of archetypical viking. Black skinned Space Wolves? Nope.

Then amazons as a separate sm unit for those greek inspired chapters, not that bad. Not something Id like to see but not immersion breaking either.

Do you really want a female in disguise thrope for black templars though heh?

WWI was not fought solely by white people as you erroneously imply:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/369th_Infantry_Regiment_%28United_States%29

There were numerous non white soldiers fighting in WWI. DKOK are a smorgasbord of all WWI forces so it isn't too ridiculous to have diverse DKOK.

Note however that the DKOK are spesifically inspired by the German forces, which had far less diverse units in the war.

 Sienisoturi wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
You can make up reasons for racism being alive and kicking in 40th millenium, wasnt there a book about genocide of natives to make place for new Imperial settlers? I find the idea that just external threat would eradicate racism in a world like that a bit naive tbh.

And you're missing the point: racism isn't gone in 40k, it just has a new target. The Imperium's attitude towards non-humans would make the average KKK member look like a reasonable moderate, and genociding an entire non-human civilization to make room for human settlers is exactly what we'd expect. It just isn't plausible that the Imperium would care about the same racism that existed 40,000 years ago in a completely different society.


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 Swastakowey wrote:
I think the issue many have missed is how many of the cultures that are popular in 40k are actually taken from white culture inspiration. I think Tallarn are the only ones who of our current selection that should feature middle easterners. The rest are taken from white cultures.

This isn't true at all. Catachans are the Vietnam-era US army in space, and that was certainly not an all-white culture. Cadians are generic scifi soldiers with no real-world cultural inspiration. DKoK have uniforms taken from real WWI designs, but their culture has nothing to do with it (and no culture like it ever existed in the real world). Elysians are generic scifi soldiers like Cadians. So of the four IG regiments that GW currently produces none of them have this supposed "white culture" inspiration.

Well the book was about human Imperials genociding human, not alien natives.

It's just as plausible for the Imperium to be racist both externaly and internaly. Opressed and scared individuals fueled with paranoia, living in a violent times in overcrowded places and backwards cultures, that just begs for conflicts driven by differencies including racial ones, especialy given the inherent distrust to everything different that humans seem to carry. Again, what I see is your made up reasons not the ultimately plausible version of fluff.

As for guard regiments, yes Catachans should be racialy diverse that would be in line with their theme, Arnold's squad from Predator with Rambo but 10x tougher, sounds great. You're giving too much weight to the word culture in relation to guard regiments fluff though and visual design is imo most important when it comes to theme. Id say DKoK are clearly associated with white people and Cadians are meant to be main Imperial force, with said Imperium having nods to medieval one, Soviet and Nazi regimes, WW I etc - the majority of it being based on white cultures history. Elysians I dont know tbh.


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@epronvost

The viking archetype is white male. Valkyries elite unit for Space Wolves? Great idea. Some women into an SW squad? Maybe, Im not sold as they soften the image of archetypical viking. Black skinned Space Wolves? Nope.

Then amazons as a separate sm unit for those greek inspired chapters, not that bad. Not something Id like to see but not immersion breaking either.

Do you really want a female in disguise thrope for black templars though heh?

WWI was not fought solely by white people as you erroneously imply:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/369th_Infantry_Regiment_%28United_States%29

There were numerous non white soldiers fighting in WWI. DKOK are a smorgasbord of all WWI forces so it isn't too ridiculous to have diverse DKOK.

Note however that the DKOK are spesifically inspired by the German forces, which had far less diverse units in the war.

Actually they're not. Aesthetically they resemble a mixture of different forces, including German, but moreso French:



They seem more 'generic WW1' inspired than 'German WW1' specifically (despite the name). And their whole martyrdom philosophy doesn't really resemble any specific WW1 military.