Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They are listed as allies on convenience in the allied matrix I wonder how is this applied to actual fluff?

 Scorpionov wrote:
They are listed as allies on convenience in the allied matrix I wonder how is this applied to actual fluff?

Its not - I am not aware of any battles where the two forces acted together, ever. but happy to be corrected.

Like pretty much most allies I could maybe see Allies of Desperation - there is likely something that would make them fight on the same side - but its harder than most factions IMO.

Reasons I can think off:
I guess the recent Necron Codex does ahve them allying with "lesser" races fro their own survivial so maybe Chaos could do this - although its easier if the Necrons don't know their new allies have fallen until its too late.
Chaos might try and offer a way to grant them new biological bodies or cure the Flayer virus but Necrons are likely very wary about bargins with Alien Gods for obvious reasons.

A Flayer or Destroyer Cult and A Chaos esp Khornate Cult might not notice the differences between each other

I don't think Chaos can have peaceful relations with any race. They are here to wreck stuff and that's what they do. Even between chaos warbands, there is no consensus outside of Black Crusades.

I also think Allies Matrix is not accurate fluffwise. Why Tau should be Allies of Coveniance with Necrons (even though I admit Newcrons can now have kind of diplomatic relations with other races)? Same thing between Orks and Chaos... It is just a way to allow completely different armies from different players to be fielded together. But it's just my opinion!

 Scorpionov wrote:
They are listed as allies on convenience in the allied matrix I wonder how is this applied to actual fluff?

arent the necrons trying to seal off the warp from the real space galaxy? Wouldnt that be the antithesis of what chaos actually wants?

I wouldn't say the ally matrix makes much fluff-sense, but maybe it's intended so that people can create Dark Mechanicum armies and run with their Chaos marines?

Sort of like how Imperial Guard and CSM were Allies of Convenience in 6th, before all Imperial forces were lumped together and Chaos got real Renegade Guard.

 RazgrizOne wrote:

I also think Allies Matrix is not accurate fluffwise.

Yes - I agree with this!

Maybe the Necrons are pragmatic enough to make a temporary alliance with a Chaos warband if they both have the same enemies?

Necrons are the biggest threat to the chaos gods. They have the technology to cut off the warp. The pylons on cadia are of ancient necron origin, designed to close tge eye of terror (this of course makes absolutely no sense since the eye of terror was created with the birth of Slannesh in early M30, long, long after the necrons went to sleep - but writers will be writers). So I cannot see them allying at all.

I can't think of any reason why Necrons would hold any temporary alliance with Chaos. Hell, it's arguable they hate Chaos more than the Eldar as Chaos is the warp itself trying to invade the materium- the only true enemy of the Necron civilization.

The allies matrix is really weird.

The Necrons at best want to be the sole rulers of the galaxy, with everyone else beneath their order. At worst they want to destroy the entire immaterium.

Well actually at worst one of them wanted to destroy time itself and thus destroy all things. But hey, details.

Chaos is allies of convenience with the orks because that's what they actually were during the 13th Black Crusade.

As for Necrons, in oldcron fluff, Necrons HATED Chaos. Necrons had no soul and were the ultimate order, and were basically the anti-chaos. In the 13th Black Crusade, despite how they normally killed everything, Necrons primarily targetted Chaos and the Imperium, in those cases, just sat back and watched (but did not team up with them. So no allies of convenience there). The necron pylons on Cadia were made to hold back and seal the warp.

As for newcron fluff.... yea, there's really nothing. Honestly GW, if you're gonna make someone allies of convenience with someone else, couldn't you at least provide one fluff example?

The only way I can see some sort of alliance happening is if the Silent King has deemed the Tyranids a greater threat than Chaos and so the forces loyal to him would rather ally with Chaos if only to prevent the tyranids from increasing their numbers and possibly becoming stronger.

Others I'm certain would possibly let the tyranids and chaos batter and beat each other silly and then swiftly finish off the remnants of the victorious force once the dust settles.

Plucky warpsmith gathers necron bodies after engagement and infuses the husks with the neverborn. Boom, allied necrons+csm. Why anyone ever equates "never happened before" to "not possible" is confusing to me especially in fantasy settings.

JubbJubbz wrote:
Plucky warpsmith gathers necron bodies after engagement and infuses the husks with the neverborn. Boom, allied necrons+csm. Why anyone ever equates "never happened before" to "not possible" is confusing to me especially in fantasy settings.

If you're going that route; why can't the CSMs corrupt Guardsmen to make them allies?

 Kain wrote:

JubbJubbz wrote:
Plucky warpsmith gathers necron bodies after engagement and infuses the husks with the neverborn. Boom, allied necrons+csm. Why anyone ever equates "never happened before" to "not possible" is confusing to me especially in fantasy settings.

If you're going that route; why can't the CSMs corrupt Guardsmen to make them allies?

What fresh heresy is this?

 Kain wrote:

JubbJubbz wrote:
Plucky warpsmith gathers necron bodies after engagement and infuses the husks with the neverborn. Boom, allied necrons+csm. Why anyone ever equates "never happened before" to "not possible" is confusing to me especially in fantasy settings.

If you're going that route; why can't the CSMs corrupt Guardsmen to make them allies?

Indeed. I was pretty upset when guard got bumped down to 'come the apoc' from 'convenience' but then then traitor guard got basically their own codex in IA13 so that turned my frown upside down. I've run normal guard allied with CSM plenty of times just ignoring 'come the apoc' penalties. My opponents are totally cool with it. The rules are really more like guidelines anyway

Wouldn't it sort of depend on the chaos chapter in question? Night Lords and Iron Warriors don't have much love for the warp either.

There is a kind of reason, but many of you may consider it irrelevant and say it doesn't count, it's been retconned, etc.

It's from the time of 1st ed. In parallel to 40k Rogue Trader, there was a boardgame called Space Crusade by GW and Milton Bradley. You guys may know the more famous Heroquest. Space Crusade was basically 40k Heroquest, but instead of 1 character, you control a 5-man squad of Marines, and you can even equip them differently. It was totally sweet.

In Space Crusade, you had the precursor to what would be known as Necrons. They were just robotic skeletons carrying an evil looking rifle with a giant bayonet. They weren't known as Necrons back then; they were just seen as some rare and odd Xenos or long-dormant technology. In the manual, and all references to them at the time, they were known as:

Chaos Androids

Chaos Androids are the old Men of Iron that started off the end of the DAoT.

The fluff for my Night Lords has them getting corrupted by the warp and being repulsed by it. So they seek out some Necrons to see if they would have any way of countering the corruption. Needless to say, the Necrons' solution isn't all that much better than the original warp corruption.

I don't recall reading of anything in the fluff books that has Necrons looking eye to eye with Chaos.

Chaos forces seek souls (and skulls??) to appease their gods, and unless Khorne has an acquired taste for the living metal of the heads of Necron warriors I don't see Chaos warbands having any interest in crossing with the Necron unless it is things like needing to steal some things under their noses or "extracurricular activity" like revenge or coincidentally encountering eachother when both slides are slaughtering some hapless Imperial planet. FLuff-wise, Chaos forces encountered Tyranids in this manner in Shadowbrink, and withdrew when the fighting got bad and they were convinced the blood spilt was not worthy of Khorne.

The codex on Necrons also have the background setting for their awakening as chaotic, the individual lords of worlds/ systems fending for themselves. Not only does this mean that they might be at odds with other Necron fiefdoms, but means that their capricious nature allows the Necron to operate in great leeway to whoever's making up the story. They can fight Chaos alongside Imperials because they want to preserve XYZ and Chaos forces stand in the way while the Imperium does not, for example. On an entire flip side you can have the opposite story somewhere else, another Necron lord wipes out an imperial world and doesn't mind utilizing Chaos to play a part. Awakened Necron, according to the fluff, have many goals and ambitions, dependent on circumstance and temperament of their local leader, and just so happens that most see these objectives as common paths to their primary mission, which is restoring Necron supremacy. Using or destroying Chaos forces they come across naturally is open to interpretation to the relevant Necron lord; they might not want to ally with Chaos forces that desecrated a crownworld or looted one of their tombs.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Necrons are the biggest threat to the chaos gods. They have the technology to cut off the warp. The pylons on cadia are of ancient necron origin, designed to close tge eye of terror (this of course makes absolutely no sense since the eye of terror was created with the birth of Slannesh in early M30, long, long after the necrons went to sleep - but writers will be writers). So I cannot see them allying at all.

The Eye of Terror is where the old Eldar homeworld and major crown worlds used to be. The Pylons have nothing to do with the Eye, it's just coincidence because they were trying to close in on the Eldar.

Completely wrong old bean, it's established fluff I'm afraid, the pylons are necron in origin, that's been the case as far back as 3rd, incidentally the imperium has the capability to actually build them, but the first time in the heresy was stopped by the alpha legion, 2nd was eisenhorn killing quixos

It's a bit inaccurate to say that the "Imperium" can build them. More accurate to say "a few individual humans" figured out the meta-mathematics and arcane sciences required to construct one.

 Formosa wrote:
Completely wrong old bean, it's established fluff I'm afraid, the pylons are necron in origin, that's been the case as far back as 3rd, incidentally the imperium has the capability to actually build them, but the first time in the heresy was stopped by the alpha legion, 2nd was eisenhorn killing quixos

Are you responding to me? I never said they weren't Necron.

The Imperium has no such ability. A single person may have figured out the science behind it, in part or in full, and he died last I recall. (Unsure about the Alpha legion bit, I only know Quixos)

In 'Black Crusade' RPG there is mention of certain Chaos Lord who managed to get to understanding with Necron Lord who hangs around the Screaming Vortex, and they plundered some Space Hulk together. So, there is that.