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Started looking at these after seeing a few of the minis around Dakka, and now I have many, many questions which I'm hoping you guys can help with. What draws me to these the most is (roughly in order), the huge number/range of minis for the price, the solo play option, and the fact I like the idea of a D&D campaign but lack the time, players or GM. For the moment, I'm just looking at Ravenloft, Ashardalon and Drizzt, rather than the expansions.

Anyway, the questions

On the rules:
- How extensive are the pre-built campaigns included in the boxes? With the random Monsters/tiles, are they replayable?

- How hard is it to go beyond that, by creating your own scenarios or altering aspects of existing ones? Is there much fan-made expansion material out there?

- Similarly, how hard is it to create new Hero/Monster profiles? If, say, I wanted to reskin the mechanics to run my Fellowship of the Ring through Moria fighting Goblins and Trolls, or do a bit of undead-bashing with minis themed on my favourite Skyrim Characters, is that sort of thing doable.

- As a wargamers rather than a board gamer, will I find the rules to shallow, or is there enough variety to keep me interested?

- On the other hand, is it going to be too daunting for non gamers to pick up?

On the minis:
- What kind of quality are the minis? Considering, say, Infinity or Malifaux as 10/10, 40k/WFB ranging between 5-7, Reaper Bones 4-6 and Green Army Men as 1, where do these minis fit on that scale? I'm not expecting the best looking things ever, but want something I can paint up and have it look good.

- Less important, but where do these guys fit between Heroic and True scaling?

- Can anyone give me a rundown of exactly what minis you get in any of the sets? All I can find is numbers and bad descriptions. For a few billion bonus points, does anyone have pics of the mini contents of each?


Bonus Round:

- Are there any other options I should be considering? I know Mantic have Dungeon Saga coming, but are there any others worth looking at or waiting for?

- of the 3 D&D sets, which one is best as a package? A cursory glance at some reviews puts Ashardalon ahead in terms of rules and variety, but I'm interested in any opinions.


Thanks in advance for any answers!

I'll try to answer your questions, I have the dragon and the ravenloft set.


- How extensive are the pre-built campaigns included in the boxes? With the random Monsters/tiles, are they replayable?
Calling them campaigns is probably a bit misleading. They're mostly stand alone scenarios linked by a common location and villains, although the Ashardalon set has a way to link scenarios into a kind of campaign. But the basic rules limit you to only 1 level up, so it's not like a "real" D'n'D campaign. That said there are a lot of them, and I haven't managed to play all of them yet despite owning them since release pretty much!

- How hard is it to go beyond that, by creating your own scenarios or altering aspects of existing ones? Is there much fan-made expansion material out there?
Dunno about fan material, but the game is very simple and robust and it works off streamlined fourth edition Dungeons and Dragons mechanics, so it would be very easy to make your own scenarios.

- Similarly, how hard is it to create new Hero/Monster profiles? If, say, I wanted to reskin the mechanics to run my Fellowship of the Ring through Moria fighting Goblins and Trolls, or do a bit of undead-bashing with minis themed on my favourite Skyrim Characters, is that sort of thing doable.
Heroes and monsters are pretty much streamlined 4th edition ports, so if you got your hands on the fourth edition source books (which are probably pretty cheap these days) you'd have a wealth of material which could be easily converted.

- As a wargamers rather than a board gamer, will I find the rules to shallow, or is there enough variety to keep me interested?
A tough one to answer. I'd say a tenative yes. There's enough interesting stuff here to keep it going, and each of the heroes plays quite differently with a different selection of powers, strengths and weaknesses.

- On the other hand, is it going to be too daunting for non gamers to pick up?
Nah it's pretty easy to pick up and plays very quickly. I've played it with loads of non gamers and they got it pretty quick.

On the minis:
- What kind of quality are the minis? Considering, say, Infinity or Malifaux as 10/10, 40k/WFB ranging between 5-7, Reaper Bones 4-6 and Green Army Men as 1, where do these minis fit on that scale? I'm not expecting the best looking things ever, but want something I can paint up and have it look good.
The minis are okay. Not the best things in the world but they're alright. Some are worse than others, and any delicate weapons tend to be very bendy. The bigger the mini, generally the better it looks. The red dragon is especially nice in my opinion.

- Less important, but where do these guys fit between Heroic and True scaling?
Heroic scaled but slightly smaller than 40K guys.

- Can anyone give me a rundown of exactly what minis you get in any of the sets? All I can find is numbers and bad descriptions. For a few billion bonus points, does anyone have pics of the mini contents of each?
I don't have my Ashardalon set to hand and my Ravenloft set is doing duty in the school board games collection right now. I will do my best to remember the miniatures included.
Ravenloft: (Uhm, I should note that my "good" and "okay" ratings here are quite generous.)
1 Vampire, good quality sculpt, for the main villain.
1 Hag, good quality sculpt, for a lesser villain
1 Kobold Mage, good quality sculpt, for a lesser vilalin.
1 Flesh Golem, okay quality sculpt, for a lesser villain.
1 Zombie Dragon, good quality sculpt, for a lesser villain
1 Dracolich, okay quality sculpt, very large, for a main villain.
1 Dragonborn Fighter, good quality sculpt, hero
1 Elf Wizard, okay quality sculpt, hero
1 Dwarf Cleric, okay quality sculpt, hero
1 Human Rogue, okay quality sculpt (weird pose) hero
1 Human Ranger, okay quality sculpt, (bendy sword) hero
3 Wolves, poor quality sculpt (look more like badgers!) minions
3 Rat swarms, okay quality sculpt, minions
3 Kobolds with spears, good quality sculpt, minions
3 Zombies, okay quality sculpts, minions
3 Ghouls, good quality sculpts (though a bit oversized), minions
3 Skeletons, okay quality sculpts (bendy swords! and legs), minions
3 Wraiths, okay quality sculpts (transparent plastic), minions
3 Blazing skeletons, okay quality sculpts (transparent plastic) minions
3 Gargoyles, good quality sculpts, minions
3 giant spiders, okay quality sculpts, minions
(I think that's everything?)

Hmmm. For Ashardalon I think I will forget most of them at this point. The mini quality was generally better, and there were:
Orcs: Archers, warriors and a leader
Kobolds, quite nice again
Duregar: Warriors and a leader
Rage Drake: Large quadrapedal dragon monster, quite nice looking
Red Dragon: Pretty awesome dragon mini
Grells: Creepy tentacle brain monsters, lovely sculpts

Unfortunately I can't bloody remember the rest, but there's an equivalent amount of monsters and they're cooler than the Ravenloft ones from what I recall!

I prefered how Ashardalon played and also how the miniatures looked, but Ravenloft is pretty fun.

- Are there any other options I should be considering? I know Mantic have Dungeon Saga coming, but are there any others worth looking at or waiting for?
Descent? More complex, but often gets mentioned in these discussions!

- of the 3 D&D sets, which one is best as a package? A cursory glance at some reviews puts Ashardalon ahead in terms of rules and variety, but I'm interested in any opinions.
I would go with Ashardalon out of what I've played. Both are good though and you can easily mix and match them.

Thanks a bunch for the comprehensive answers!

Sounds like it'll do nicely for what I want (something I can set up and play without being too labour intensive or convoluted), and I'll have a look for those sourcebooks!

One thing you need to know, these games (although they can be fun in their own right) are in no way, shape, or form anything like playing an actual roleplaying game. You lay out a tile at a certain time and then place a certain number of monsters in certain spaces, fight them, and repeat. These board game are much more about managing depleting resources than anything else.

Yeah it's a dungeon crawl in the simplest version of the idea- "explore" a dungeon, kill monsters, get treasure, accomplish the objective, done!

It's not "narrative" in any sense. But it is fun, especially in your situation!

Yeah, I certainly don't expect it to replace having a proper RPG group (one day...) or anything, just something where I can hack through a selection of baddies with a character of choice without having to try and 'play' both sides, hence the fact that the card controlled Monsters are appealing. The simplicity helps too; I figure I'm far more likely to get non gaming friends to play this than I would D&D proper or any out and out wargame.

That, and some fun minis to paint without committing to a whole army.

It is definitely fun for what it is and it can be pretty challenging. You ought to try out the new one, Temple of Elemental Evil.

*Shamefaced*
I am definitely picking that one up. I hope the minis with it are nice!

My buds played it last Friday night and described the miniatures as being of standard board game quality. They have the other sets so I guess that means they are the same.

Yeah, I saw that, but it looks like it's not actually out in the UK yet. I'll start with WoA, but I think it's a pretty realistic prospect that I'll end up with all of these sets!

I only own Drizzt personally and I really like it. I have played Ashardalon, though.

Personally, I am invested into Super Dungeon Explore, rather than D&D. The other main systems are Myth and Descent.

I like the SDE minis style, and there is supposed to be some sort of campaign in the works.

The D&D stuff is compelling, as it seems to strip the game down to its core of gameplay and models.

I pre-ordered Forgotten King but my gaming group did not care for the first edition of SDE. I'm hoping FK will convince them ...

Great answers and feedback here already so far, so I'll add my own.

 Paradigm wrote:

On the rules:
- How extensive are the pre-built campaigns included in the boxes? With the random Monsters/tiles, are they replayable?

The campaigns are really more just a series of missions. There's a kind of mini-campaign inside Ashardalon based around villagers (I think) but it's been awhile. Since the board is randomly generated, they're pretty much endlessly replayable - especially if you have more than 1 of the sets, which makes it a doddle to add more or vary the tiles/monsters etc. Even more monsters and stuff are able to be added in via the Dungeon Command sets (which are also their own game, but they come with cards compatible with this series).

- How hard is it to go beyond that, by creating your own scenarios or altering aspects of existing ones? Is there much fan-made expansion material out there?

Very easy. I haven't looked much, but there's a lot on BGG, but as I said, the variation of cards/monsters/tiles makes it simple anyway. The scenarios are also pretty simple in terms of "rules and write-up" so you could make your own easily using one box set and the existing ones as a starting template.

- Similarly, how hard is it to create new Hero/Monster profiles? If, say, I wanted to reskin the mechanics to run my Fellowship of the Ring through Moria fighting Goblins and Trolls, or do a bit of undead-bashing with minis themed on my favourite Skyrim Characters, is that sort of thing doable.

Yeah, again quite easy. Having more than 1 of the boxes would make it even easier (more profiles to base new ones off) and there are blank cards over on BGG. There's lots of premade BGG ones there as well. Or if you don't want to print and put together physical cards, you could just make up profiles and use a deck of normal playing cards with monsters assigned to the specific cards. Ace of Spades = Sauron! = You're fethed!

- As a wargamers rather than a board gamer, will I find the rules to shallow, or is there enough variety to keep me interested?

They're really simplified D20 rules. D&D Feats etc are turned into character skills, kinda, and the characters are limited. They're not a mile off the WotC Star Wars Miniatures D20 rules, and I thought that game was pretty decent fun.

- On the other hand, is it going to be too daunting for non gamers to pick up?

Well, it's not Monopoly, but it's not especially hard either, and doesn't have the FFG boardgame problem of ten thousand chits and counters combined with weird dice and a thick rulebook.

On the minis:
- What kind of quality are the minis? Considering, say, Infinity or Malifaux as 10/10, 40k/WFB ranging between 5-7, Reaper Bones 4-6 and Green Army Men as 1, where do these minis fit on that scale? I'm not expecting the best looking things ever, but want something I can paint up and have it look good.

Um.. between 3-7? Then, there are some really nice (I think) Bones and lots of Warhams that are below par as well. They're basically all taken from the D&D Miniatures game prepaints, but without the pre-paint. Lots of pics of those around on the web.

Alternately, you've seen a few of mine. Here are some others -
BulldogUK is a beast. His paintjobs helped to inspire me to buy the sets
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2993886
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2993901
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3255611

- Less important, but where do these guys fit between Heroic and True scaling?

Closer to truescale, but I wouldn't call them true truescale. You'll notice that the dwarves are much more like GW's LotR range than GW's WFB range, for example.

- Can anyone give me a rundown of exactly what minis you get in any of the sets? All I can find is numbers and bad descriptions. For a few billion bonus points, does anyone have pics of the mini contents of each?

Check BulldogUK above.

Bonus Round:
- Are there any other options I should be considering? I know Mantic have Dungeon Saga coming, but are there any others worth looking at or waiting for?
- of the 3 D&D sets, which one is best as a package? A cursory glance at some reviews puts Ashardalon ahead in terms of rules and variety, but I'm interested in any opinions.

Ashardalon is definitely broader, and the rules are a little tighter. I think it's supposed to be a little harder than Ravenloft. Having said that I haven't played Drizzt, which I understand had a bit of power creep with the player characters. I didn't know that the new one Elemental Evil existed until this thread, and my usual source of these games only has one left, so I'll order it next payday, assuming it's still in stock...

Other options for solo-friendly, co-op dungeon crawls... that's a hard one. Descent V1 or V2 has some great models, but is heavier on the rules and is only GM vs Player to my knowledge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/628316.page

And this:
http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/ToEE_Campaign.pdf

And the free full rules:
https://dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/Castle_Ravenloft_RuleBook.pdf
http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/Wrath_Ashardalon_RuleBook.pdf
https://dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/LoD_Rulebook_EN.pdf



And free DLC adventures:
http://archive.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/20100816
http://archive.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/20110408

Forum Support:
http://community.wizards.com/forums/105921

User-created ones:
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2986126

Lots of stuff on youtube as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vNCMIl6Yto

Cheers Az, that's fantastic!

I have Drizzt and Ravenloft, and have finished both games a few times and made extra monsters/scenarios (mostly using 40k minis though) with them. I've also found them perfect for making new games, like a homemeade dungeonbowL OR even as a Zone Mortalis board. But anyway, back to the games:

On the rules:
- How extensive are the pre-built campaigns included in the boxes? With the random Monsters/tiles, are they replayable?

They are very replayable - but in different ways. Ravenloft because it is harder (as in, you'll lose if you're unlucky/don't powergame and act like an idiot, and the basic monsters are much more dangerous), drizzt because even if it is ridiculously easy (drizzt and catty-brie can essentially solo the entire game, although some of the bosses will cause trouble), but because it's very easy to create fun new scenarios (there are a good few pieces in the box that seem to serve no other purpose, like timepieces or treasures)

- How hard is it to go beyond that, by creating your own scenarios or altering aspects of existing ones? Is there much fan-made expansion material out there?

It's extremely easy, don't worry. The rule system is pretty basic, and can be expanded on without being unbalanced as long as you base yourself upon existing weapons/abilities. Furthermore, it's also very easy to make extra missions, tiles, and gamemodes- I advise trying a hardcore mode with less healing available, more booses, and obligatory encounter cards every 2 turns

- Similarly, how hard is it to create new Hero/Monster profiles? If, say, I wanted to reskin the mechanics to run my Fellowship of the Ring through Moria fighting Goblins and Trolls, or do a bit of undead-bashing with minis themed on my favourite Skyrim Characters, is that sort of thing doable.

Yep!

- As a wargamers rather than a board gamer, will I find the rules to shallow, or is there enough variety to keep me interested?

There is enough variety to keep you interested (especially in Drizzt). But as I said at the start, it's also pretty useful for wargamers (Zone Mortalis board, same scale so you can add in your own models from most games with basic homemade rules without breaking the game). Tactically, it gets very interesting when the bosses appear, or if you draw an unlucky encounter card or two.

- On the other hand, is it going to be too daunting for non gamers to pick up?

Nope. I got my vastly younger cousins playing when they were 6, and them did moderately well/

On the minis:
- What kind of quality are the minis? Considering, say, Infinity or Malifaux as 10/10, 40k/WFB ranging between 5-7, Reaper Bones 4-6 and Green Army Men as 1, where do these minis fit on that scale? I'm not expecting the best looking things ever, but want something I can paint up and have it look good.

The ones in Ravenloft are about as good as 40k ones, if sometimes a bit harder to paint (if you google it, a lot of people do paint them). The ones in Drizzt seem easier to paint, but aren't really as good.

- Can anyone give me a rundown of exactly what minis you get in any of the sets? All I can find is numbers and bad descriptions. For a few billion bonus points, does anyone have pics of the mini contents of each?

As I said, google it again
There are few good unboxing videos out there, and some people put photos of all the painted models on their blogs. Here are a few links, which also contain models lists:
http://paulgestwicki.blogspot.fr/2014/02/painting-drizzt-part-1-technical.html
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/901953/painted-castle-ravenloft-minis
http://fatdragongames.proboards.com/thread/2560/castle-ravenloft-boardgame-painted-minis

- of the 3 D&D sets, which one is best as a package? A cursory glance at some reviews puts Ashardalon ahead in terms of rules and variety, but I'm interested in any opinions.

From a friend who has all three, I'd agree: it seems to be halfway between Drizzt (good rules) and Ravenloft (good models, harder to win the last levels). The games can also be combined pretty well, and I believe Wizards relaesed some good FAQ for combining them.

Thanks again! Pretty much sold on Ashardalon now, I'll be ordering it as soon as I can!

Hadn't thought of doing a sci-fi mod for Zone Mortalis, that could be fun!

You might want to pick up a couple of copies of Dungeon Command instead, its very quick to get into and fully prepackaged for pick up and play games.

If you want a band of adventurers in a dungeon I would hold back on Ashardalon and pick up Super Dungeon Explore, Descent or wait until late this year for Dungeon Saga.

They aren't D&D but neither are the other games on this thread frankly. If you want D&D boardgame that is actually D&D pick your favourite edition, and any of the tilesets and miniature sets available and pregen some characters and monsters.

 Orlanth wrote:
You might want to pick up a couple of copies of Dungeon Command instead, its very quick to get into and fully prepackaged for pick up and play games.

If you want a band of adventurers in a dungeon I would hold back on Ashardalon and pick up Super Dungeon Explore, Descent or wait until late this year for Dungeon Saga.

They aren't D&D but neither are the other games on this thread frankly. If you want D&D boardgame that is actually D&D pick your favourite edition, and any of the tilesets and miniature sets available and pregen some characters and monsters.

Any particular reason why those other games are better? SDE is out simply as I can't stand the aesthetic. Dungeon Saga is something I'm very likely to pick up down the line, but probably won't be out for quite some time. Looking at Descent, I see no solo play option, more fiddly mechanics (not necessarily an issue for me, but potentially offputting for nongaming friends/family) and a similar mini/card/token count at a substantially higher price, so I'm not immediately seeing the upside. But I'm interested to hear your thoughts on why it's better.

From what I seeing in this thread, WoA seems to be ticking all my boxes (solo option, simple mechanics, nice minis, good price, quick to set up/play, easily mod-able), so I guess the question now is, are there any games that do all of that better?


Dungeon Command looks more like an abstracted skirmish wargame than a board game, and I have actual wargame rules for just about anything I'd want already, so I'm looking for something a little more contained and simple here.

As for not-D&D-ness, that's not a huge issue (although the compatibility with the 4th ed sourcebooks is handy).

Those painted mini shots have inspired me to paint up my set of Ravenloft guys. I'm running an intro scenario for D'n'D for some of the kids in my school (practically against my will but they clamored for it so...), some durable minis are needed to survive their enthusiasm!

 Da Boss wrote:
Those painted mini shots have inspired me to paint up my set of Ravenloft guys. I'm running an intro scenario for D'n'D for some of the kids in my school (practically against my will but they clamored for it so...), some durable minis are needed to survive their enthusiasm!

You teach them as well? I can see all kinds of motivation opportunities there. "Get your essay in by Tuesday or your brave and noble Paladin might just be caught in a freak rockslide next session... Dungeons are dangerous places, after all! *maniacal laughter*"

If you fancy expanding your monster selection and want durability, try Reaper Bones as well, those things are very tough and perfect for lending to overzealous kids!

Hah! Well, they're in my form group. I've a group of older kids that I teach who want to play, but I'm refusing to teach them til AFTER their GCSEs. Don't want enraged parents coming to murder me for their kids failing the examinations because they were too busy slaying a dracolich!

Bones is a good shout, I hope I can find a shop that sells it somewhere...

Edit: The minis have been pretty fun to paint. Little groups of three, fairly simple, and reasonably diverse. Got 23 painted since yesterday!

EBay is a good source for Bones, at least in the UK. There's not the whole range, but you should be able to find most common ones on there for a couple £/€. Even the mid-sized dragons and such can be had for about a tenner.

That's some fast progress! Any plans for pics?

The minis range in quality as noted by others. I would give them a 2-5 or 6 on your scale. For painted examples, you could see my Blog, starting here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570/583487.page#7678785 I have some of the Ashardalon minis painted and posted.

I would get the Ashardalon game first, then Ravenloft if you want a sequel. Even better would be the Temple of Elemental Evil, which I have now. It looks to have a nice campaign system. The Legend of Drizzt, well, the characters come out as a bit 'Mary Sue' :S My group, we've played throught the first three and enjoyed them.

The Dungeon Command is a separate game altogether. The minis with it are terribly pre-painted. They do come with cards so that you could use them in the Board games, if you wanted to mix and match.

Cheers for the link RH, some nice paintwork there. Looks like the quality of the minis themselves varies a bit, but most look at least decent and for any that o just can't stand, I think my collection should turn up some suitable replacements.

Ashardalon was top of the list, ToEE looks like it'll be a nice follow up.

I bought Wrath of Asherdalon the other day when I came across it after seeing this thread last month and have just played the solo mission.

I chose a cleric with the recommended card selection for first games and off I went.

First tile explored and I come up against a gibberish mouther and a trap that I walk straight into taking my first damage. It had 2 hp so it took me 2 turns to kill it as my ability cards only did 1 damage and I wasnt sure if they stacked. Once it died I got a treasure card that was a +1 to attack sword.

Feeling like a boss I explored my second tile and from this point on everything blew up in my face. I spawned a grell, and an encounter card spawned a bear as well. I tried to run away from them and explore a different path, only to find a duergar which I also left as I ran down a third path.
This duergar was spawned in a X junction and subsequently spawned a snake, a cultist, and a legion devil which then spawned 2 more devils next to itself. I got mobbed as they caught up and died having to use one of the 2 resurrection token things. I then used a one-use ability to disappear for the turn and reappear on any tile I wanted so I spawned at the unexplored edge of path 1 which was now clear as everything was down path 3 still.

As I ran through a couple more tiles as the hoard behind me grew thanks to the duergar exploring more paths as it followed me, I eventually made the exit tile spawn. Now I had to somehow kill the 6 hp kobolt boss and leave before the hoard caught up. I whittled it down to 2 hp successfully using a one use 3 damage card and 1 other attack succeeding before the hoard caught up and killed my cleric.

I dont know whether it was bad luck but I got overwhelmed by spawns extremely fast. On the board at the end there were 2 grell, 2 cave bears, 2 kobolt troops, 2 cultist, a snake, 3 legion devils and the kobolt boss.

I only managed the 1 kill because I chose to run due to being dazed by stuff near constantly making me only able to attack OR move, not both. Daze did seem near-gamebreaking for solo.

I had fun tho.

That first mission is a bit of a pig really; took my several attempts, and I only beat it when I ended up drawing the Exit tile very early on (and thus fought the boss on near full HP). Incidentally, I've found the Dwarf is very good for solo/tough missions. A bonus against poison, a 'free' surge with her mandatory Daily power and the option for a +11 and/or move+attack (as one action, so you can essentially double move and still attack) make her able to soak up a lot of damage and dish it out too.


You'll find the second mission a lot easier, with multiple heroes and the simple goal of killing a dozen monsters. There are also tactics for avoiding some traps with careful movement or being able to minimise enemy damage with clever placing ect that will come with time.

That stuff is why I prefer WoA to EtCR - I love the way monsters can key other monsters and end up with the whole place going on alert, it's awesome and feels much more like a D'n'D game. It does increase the difficulty, but you find better items to make up for it.

Try the Villagers mission. Each Villager has it's own AI, and it's amusing trying to juggle six or so at once. Make sure the kid doesn't put the whole cavern on alert!

Lol. When I and my group played that scenario, we quickly realized what the kid was going to do, so we made sure to set things up to put him into Harms' Way immediately. Good thing there are no alignment issues to worry about in WoA Sorry Little Timmy, but we want the monsters to eat you.

My group played through the first scenario of the ToEE. Brutal. A TPK for the first try. But we learned, and managed to make it out of the dungeon safely the second try. The Campaign rules really seem well done.