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Except that someone lost their cat. And had a heart attack.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
If people lose their jobs for being late to work one day because of a traffic issue they have no control over, we may need better laws protecting workers. As far as the people life flighted out, that is what those choppers are there for. No person died or was harmed. Just a lot of inconvenience.

Some people find themselves in that position .Clearly you are oblivious to the suffering of others. What if the helicopter had no place to land, or the woman that had gone into labor had died along with the baby, for the sake of some spoiled idiots who wanted 15 minutes of fame?
For that matter, how much additional damage did that man's heart suffer because he couldn't get out of that jam in a timely manner.?

Relapse wrote:
Some people find themselves in that position .Clearly you are oblivious to the suffering of others. What if the helicopter had no place to land, or the woman that had gone into labor had died along with the baby, for the sake of some spoiled idiots who wanted 15 minutes of fame?
For that matter, how much additional damage did that man's heart suffer because he couldn't get out of that jam in a timely manner.?

Problem is, it's all a "What if" No one died (sorry cat, you're not a person still, and people should stop acting like you're such a big deal)

Does it suck that a guy was having a heart attack? Yes. Did he get the help he needed? Yes..... All good there.

But, if a person got fired because they were late due to as you put it "some spoiled idiots", I think there really are only two options there: 1. their employer is horrible, and no one probably wants to work for them anyway. 2. The person was really, really bad at their job and was on their last leg anyway.

Situation 2 is actually fairly easy to avoid: you show up at the right place, the right time, in the right "uniform" with the right attitude, and you'll have very little reason to be fired.


Now, keep in mind, I also think the protest these kids did was stupid and probably more damaging to their cause, however, if the article is true and they have done other protests/petitions with little to no acknowledgement, then I can see why they thought it was a "good" idea. If they were protesting merely because things hadn't changed, then again... they're idiots, because they are too young to know/realize that the "Government" generally moves very slowly.

If this was three thousand students marching over the bridge to protest tuition hikes and stopping traffic with their sheer numbers; I could maybe see that being okay.

Six people getting upset and deciding to close down a major highway, well that's pretty dumb. Imagine if any time you could find five other people who were upset about something you got together and did something like this.

"Carol is a total B-Word. Let's go shut down a highway."

"This BLT is garbage. Let's go shut down a highway."

"I feel like Obama is working on a mind control ray to get a third term. Let's go shut down a highway."

Scale matters. If you can seriously only get six people on board with your plan, it is not an issue that needs that kind of action.

 Bromsy wrote:


Scale matters. If you can seriously only get six people on board with your plan, it is not an issue that needs that kind of action.

Agreed.... as I think I said earlier, I think if you can only manage six people, you're either premature, or the issue isn't that serious.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Some people find themselves in that position .Clearly you are oblivious to the suffering of others. What if the helicopter had no place to land, or the woman that had gone into labor had died along with the baby, for the sake of some spoiled idiots who wanted 15 minutes of fame?
For that matter, how much additional damage did that man's heart suffer because he couldn't get out of that jam in a timely manner.?

Problem is, it's all a "What if" No one died (sorry cat, you're not a person still, and people should stop acting like you're such a big deal)

.

I bet to that women her cat mattered.

She should go shut down a highway then, it's clearly the only valid response. I suggest the one on the original protesters route when they have exams on.

 Bullockist wrote:
She should go shut down a highway then, it's clearly the only valid response. I suggest the one on the original protesters route when they have exams on.

They are not allowed on campus anymore, expelled from the US system. And one of them was a freshmen.

There is a time and place for showing support to whatever cause you are apart of. As a bay area resident myself, blocking freeways or especially bridges during the commute hours is a great way to piss off a bunch of people and do more harm then good to whichever "movement" is hot this week. Its happened to me and my girlfriend twice recently (takes about an hour to get home already, this kind of crap makes it 3+) and I'm sick of it. Its obsurd.

Relapse wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
If people lose their jobs for being late to work one day because of a traffic issue they have no control over, we may need better laws protecting workers. As far as the people life flighted out, that is what those choppers are there for. No person died or was harmed. Just a lot of inconvenience.

Some people find themselves in that position .Clearly you are oblivious to the suffering of others. What if the helicopter had no place to land, or the woman that had gone into labor had died along with the baby, for the sake of some spoiled idiots who wanted 15 minutes of fame?
For that matter, how much additional damage did that man's heart suffer because he couldn't get out of that jam in a timely manner.?

Really? The helicopter not having a place to land is not an issue, considering that the two people in need of care were in a state where they could be transported to an area where the helicopter could land and made it there. But, the real what if here, what if Godzilla had stepped in and crushed everybody. We should be outraged about that! Wait, that didn't happen. Everybody is fine minus the cat? Baby born and the man with the heart attack is fine? (I have no clue actually, since I have no evidence that these events even happened)

Well how about that. We have things to avoid these sorts of medical situations. That is just crazy! Lets still be mad about the delay while future generations are being saddled with debt! THAT CAT DESERVED TO LIVE YOU DARN DIRTY APES!

So we have a group that chooses to go to college, and willingly takes on debt based on that - choosing to inconvenience themselves with said debt.

At some arbitrary point, that self chosen inconvenience becomes so great and burdensome that they then get to go out and force inconvenience on other people to show how inconvenienced they are? Because screw everyone who isn't them and everyone else should pay attention to how sad their plight is or be damned.

I get it, college is of greater cost and less utility than in the past. That sucks. Not the fault of the people who are trying to commute across that bridge, most likely.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I remember when people were protesting about things slightly larger than what happened on their own 1 sq mile large bastion of sophism.

Yeah, increasing college costs in no way affect anyone else, it's all those darn selfish students!

Yeah, and those people who had serious medical conditions requiring immediate attention that couldn't get it without an airlift because they were trapped by the student caused traffic jam, blame the college and those dang tuition rates. Their next of kin would have understood they died for a good cause.

Not to be completely callous... but if you have an issue that a ton of people should care about, you have to make them care about it.... Hypothetically speaking, if Mr. Heart Attack had actually died, someone would have used it politically to get others to fight for lower tuition costs.



This is basically the exact same way that MLK made people care about his issues. The term he used was Non-Violent Direct Action. To MLK, that action was to be taken to create a situation that was so uncomfortable for the "oppressor" (or whoever it is that's being fought against), that they MUST come to the table and negotiate in good faith.

In this situation, there seems to be a few steps missing, since only 6 people were present at this protest, which means one of a few things. One being that they could be protesting "too soon". Or that things aren't as bad for people as these protesters seem to think.

On the flip side, the family of the person who had to be life flighted, the hospital/government entity paying for the lifeflight all should now sue the students for the costs and intentional infliction of phycial and emotional distress caused by that protest.

They want to play, they should pay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:
She should go shut down a highway then, it's clearly the only valid response. I suggest the one on the original protesters route when they have exams on.

They are not allowed on campus anymore, expelled from the US system. And one of them was a freshmen.

Excellent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
If people lose their jobs for being late to work one day because of a traffic issue they have no control over, we may need better laws protecting workers. As far as the people life flighted out, that is what those choppers are there for. No person died or was harmed. Just a lot of inconvenience.

Some people find themselves in that position .Clearly you are oblivious to the suffering of others. What if the helicopter had no place to land, or the woman that had gone into labor had died along with the baby, for the sake of some spoiled idiots who wanted 15 minutes of fame?
For that matter, how much additional damage did that man's heart suffer because he couldn't get out of that jam in a timely manner.?

Really? The helicopter not having a place to land is not an issue, considering that the two people in need of care were in a state where they could be transported to an area where the helicopter could land and made it there. But, the real what if here, what if Godzilla had stepped in and crushed everybody. We should be outraged about that! Wait, that didn't happen. Everybody is fine minus the cat? Baby born and the man with the heart attack is fine? (I have no clue actually, since I have no evidence that these events even happened)

Well how about that. We have things to avoid these sorts of medical situations. That is just crazy! Lets still be mad about the delay while future generations are being saddled with debt! THAT CAT DESERVED TO LIVE YOU DARN DIRTY APES!

Wait, so six people blocking a freeway is no problem, and CAUSING A PERSON ALMOST TO DIE IS NO BIG DEAL. What fething planet do you live on?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I remember when people were protesting about things slightly larger than what happened on their own 1 sq mile large bastion of sophism.

Yeah, increasing college costs in no way affect anyone else, it's all those darn selfish students!

Yeah, and those people who had serious medical conditions requiring immediate attention that couldn't get it without an airlift because they were trapped by the student caused traffic jam, blame the college and those dang tuition rates. Their next of kin would have understood they died for a good cause.

Not to be completely callous... but if you have an issue that a ton of people should care about, you have to make them care about it.... Hypothetically speaking, if Mr. Heart Attack had actually died, someone would have used it politically to get others to fight for lower tuition costs.



This is basically the exact same way that MLK made people care about his issues. The term he used was Non-Violent Direct Action. To MLK, that action was to be taken to create a situation that was so uncomfortable for the "oppressor" (or whoever it is that's being fought against), that they MUST come to the table and negotiate in good faith.

In this situation, there seems to be a few steps missing, since only 6 people were present at this protest, which means one of a few things. One being that they could be protesting "too soon". Or that things aren't as bad for people as these protesters seem to think.

On the flip side, the family of the person who had to be life flighted, the hospital/government entity paying for the lifeflight all should now sue the students for the costs and intentional infliction of phycial and emotional distress caused by that protest.

They want to play, they should pay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:
She should go shut down a highway then, it's clearly the only valid response. I suggest the one on the original protesters route when they have exams on.

They are not allowed on campus anymore, expelled from the US system. And one of them was a freshmen.

Excellent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
If people lose their jobs for being late to work one day because of a traffic issue they have no control over, we may need better laws protecting workers. As far as the people life flighted out, that is what those choppers are there for. No person died or was harmed. Just a lot of inconvenience.

Some people find themselves in that position .Clearly you are oblivious to the suffering of others. What if the helicopter had no place to land, or the woman that had gone into labor had died along with the baby, for the sake of some spoiled idiots who wanted 15 minutes of fame?
For that matter, how much additional damage did that man's heart suffer because he couldn't get out of that jam in a timely manner.?

Really? The helicopter not having a place to land is not an issue, considering that the two people in need of care were in a state where they could be transported to an area where the helicopter could land and made it there. But, the real what if here, what if Godzilla had stepped in and crushed everybody. We should be outraged about that! Wait, that didn't happen. Everybody is fine minus the cat? Baby born and the man with the heart attack is fine? (I have no clue actually, since I have no evidence that these events even happened)

Well how about that. We have things to avoid these sorts of medical situations. That is just crazy! Lets still be mad about the delay while future generations are being saddled with debt! THAT CAT DESERVED TO LIVE YOU DARN DIRTY APES!

Wait, so six people blocking a freeway is no problem, and CAUSING A PERSON ALMOST TO DIE IS NO BIG DEAL. What fething planet do you live on?

That's what I was wondering myself. It seems that since no one died, just came close, it's ok. Then on is brought the ridiculous Godzilla comparison. My guess is that the people who say it's no big deal have neither had to work a real job, didn't had a job where they had to work different shifts from their spouse in order to have someone with the kids, or just don't give a gak about other people since they blow off a couple of extremely possible instances where there could have been fatal consequences for people trapped in this. I can't fathom grown people that have to have how real life works and consequences of stupid actions explained to them in minute detail.
Perhaps if they were trapped with someone they actually cared about in a similar circumstance, they would be less inclined to sympathy with these tactics.

Following this logic, if the people got out and threw them off the bridge, hey no big deal.

 Frazzled wrote:


On the flip side, the family of the person who had to be life flighted, the hospital/government entity paying for the lifeflight all should now sue the students for the costs and intentional infliction of phycial and emotional distress caused by that protest.

They want to play, they should pay.

But... But, Obamacare!!!

Don't get me wrong here, there's really nothing right with the situation. Even though I agree that the pregnant lady and Mr. Heart Attack's families each have definite ground for a civil suit against these kids, I think it's a foolhardy errand simply because we all know that those kids won't have a way to pay for it at any point in their lives now.

bs. They are going to a UC school. These are not poor kids.

If they were working class they would be going to a Cal State school.

Relapse wrote:

That's what I was wondering myself. It seems that since no one died, just came close, it's ok. Then on is brought the ridiculous Godzilla comparison. My guess is that the people who say it's no big deal have neither had to work a real job, didn't had a job where they had to work different shifts from their spouse in order to have someone with the kids, or just don't give a gak about other people since they blow off a couple of extremely possible instances where there could have been fatal consequences for people trapped in this. I can't fathom grown people that have to have how real life works and consequences of stupid actions explained to them in minute detail.
Perhaps if they were trapped with someone they actually cared about in a similar circumstance, they would be less inclined to sympathy with these tactics.

Well, since we have the things to handle these situations, such as life flight which was utilized to save these people, it is not a big deal. This is why these services are available. In case of emergencies when a person cannot reach a hospital. Also, a Life Flight is far faster than driving or using an ambulance to get yourself to the Hospital. But, I guess since I have worked in the medical field since I was 18 and I know how situations like these are handled and responded to I guess I do not consider it such a big deal. You know, since I have the expertise and knowledge about how these situations are handled.

So Relapse, please explain to me in minute detail how these people were in such great danger when we have the equipment to handle such a crisis.

Horse gak.

They didn't have lifeflight on standby. He had to be waiting in an ambulance for some time. In heart situations, time is life.

 Frazzled wrote:
Horse gak.

They didn't have lifeflight on standby. He had to be waiting in an ambulance for some time. In heart situations, time is life.

Life Flight is ALWAYS on Standby. That is their job.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Horse gak.

They didn't have lifeflight on standby. He had to be waiting in an ambulance for some time. In heart situations, time is life.

Life Flight is ALWAYS on Standby. That is their job.

Unless IT WAS CIRCLING OVERHEAD WAITING TO PICK HIM UP there was a substantial time delay. Again horse gak.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Horse gak.

They didn't have lifeflight on standby. He had to be waiting in an ambulance for some time. In heart situations, time is life.

Life Flight is ALWAYS on Standby. That is their job.

Unless IT WAS CIRCLING OVERHEAD WAITING TO PICK HIM UP there was a substantial time delay. Again horse gak.

Okay, first off we really need a link to these events so we know what happened. Was he in an ambulance? Did the Heart Attack happen in his own car? If so, then yes Life Flight was the fastest possible scenario for him. There are very few situations where an ambulance is going to be faster than a helicopter.

 Frazzled wrote:
Taze them Bro!

As a former California student, protests on campus were a weekly event, like having lunch. Protest off campus and throw the ing book at em.

Someone with youtube-fu greater than mine needs to link a movie to the PCU "We're not gonna protest" scene.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Relapse wrote:

That's what I was wondering myself. It seems that since no one died, just came close, it's ok. Then on is brought the ridiculous Godzilla comparison. My guess is that the people who say it's no big deal have neither had to work a real job, didn't had a job where they had to work different shifts from their spouse in order to have someone with the kids, or just don't give a gak about other people since they blow off a couple of extremely possible instances where there could have been fatal consequences for people trapped in this. I can't fathom grown people that have to have how real life works and consequences of stupid actions explained to them in minute detail.
Perhaps if they were trapped with someone they actually cared about in a similar circumstance, they would be less inclined to sympathy with these tactics.

Well, since we have the things to handle these situations, such as life flight which was utilized to save these people, it is not a big deal. This is why these services are available. In case of emergencies when a person cannot reach a hospital. Also, a Life Flight is far faster than driving or using an ambulance to get yourself to the Hospital. But, I guess since I have worked in the medical field since I was 18 and I know how situations like these are handled and responded to I guess I do not consider it such a big deal. You know, since I have the expertise and knowledge about how these situations are handled.

So Relapse, please explain to me in minute detail how these people were in such great danger when we have the equipment to handle such a crisis.

It appears your appeal to authority ploy doesn't mean a lot when you overlook incidents like this:

http://www.universalhub.com/2014/traffic-jam-caused-protests-kept-paramedics


Or perhaps an added 10 minutes to response time is acceptable to you:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22883716


Do you really want me to go on, or shall I cite several more instances ?

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/fort_lee_woman_died_as_gwb_closures_delayed_medical_help.html

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/02/05/exclusive-23-minute-delay-for-paramedics-during-berkeley-protests-patient-later-died/

So, in detail, in a medical emergency, such as a heart attack, every second counts. When traffic is tied up as in the case of idiots blocking it, people can die. Shall I educate you further?

We aren't even talking about other emergency responders, like police of firetrucks getting stuck in these kinds of messes

These students have the right to peacefully assemble. They do not have the right to obstruct traffic.

So wait, did you really read those links Relapse? One says that because of a protest, they had to call another ambulance and it all worked out great. It was praising the backup plan. The second link you sent is complaining about traffic congestion and the need for ambulance services to have a green light device. The third is the corruption scandal involving Chris Christie in NJ and the 4th was delayed because of a city ordinance requiring police escort that took way longer than it should have.

I am not sure how you think this helps your case.

Entitlement. They want something and don't want to pay for it.
I had to join the army to go to college.

Some more on the idiots:

http://m.ksbw.com/news/santa-cruz-protesters-blocking-highway-1-fishhook/31586566

Relapse wrote:
Some more on the idiots:

http://m.ksbw.com/news/santa-cruz-protesters-blocking-highway-1-fishhook/31586566

That.... didn't add anything that we didn't already know.

Though, if that age was correct on the "28 year old" protester, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she was hit with a stiffer, or additional "conspiracy" charge as some sort of ringleader.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Entitlement. They want something and don't want to pay for it.
I had to join the army to go to college.

You believe that tuition rates should continue to increase at their current rate?

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Entitlement. They want something and don't want to pay for it.
I had to join the army to go to college.

You believe that tuition rates should continue to increase at their current rate?

Personally, I think if you look at the rate increases, combined with where much of that money goes, and yeah... I think the situation is pretty bad and can't be maintained. But I'm also with MWHistorian in that I have GI Bill/Vocational Rehab paying for my school.

And it's somewhat sad, I'm currently at a community college and there are people complaining that they can barely, or cannot afford the CC rates, it's crazy because they aren't even at a 4 year school.