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Hi, all! This is my first post, and I apologize if I am rehashing a oft-asked question. I searched and could not find any answer.

When did Magnus the Red join forces with Horus? As far as I know he was the last of the traitor primarchs to side with Horus.

I am reading Know No Fear, which I gather takes place perhaps a year after the Dropsite Massacre on Isstvan V. In his villain monologue in the middle of the book, Lorgar names all the traitor primarchs, and Magnus is among the names listed.

I've found this unofficial timeline: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222664-horus-heresy-timeline/

It says, among other things:

c160.003M31 The Council of Nikaea Primarchs Magnus, Sangunius, Fulgrim, Mortarion, attend.
459.004M31 Horus interned in the Delphos on Davin /Magnus uses sorcery to try and contact Horus
486.004M31 Magnus breaches the wards around the Emperors throne room to deliver a warning about Horus fall. Malcador dispatches Leman Russ to being Magnus back to terra
560.005M31 ... Horus contacts Russ and reveal Magnus use of Sorcery, encouraging him to destroy Magnus.
c400.006M31 Sons of Horus, Death Guard, Word Easters and Emperors Children arrive in Isstvan system
Invasion of Isstvan III
c900.006M31 The drop site massacre/ Magnus the red contacts Horus offering his service.

The last item I've quoted says that Magnus joins Horus at about the same time as the Dropsite Massacre occurs. Can anyone cite a source for that?

Thanks!

In the new storyline, we don't know, it hasn't happened yet.

We've got as far as Magnus being in the eye of terror, on the Planet of Ssorcerors, umming and arring about it.

The thousand sons definitely did not take part in the Dropsite Massacre. Magnus was chatting to Lorgar around that time tho, but refusing to join him.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lorgars claims in Know No Fear may have been a bit of bluster... Magnus can't really be described as loyal, he's been cast out of the imperium and forged a pact with a chaos god.. but he hasn't thrown in his lot with Horus either.

Thanks for the reply.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The thousand sons definitely did not take part in the Dropsite Massacre. Magnus was chatting to Lorgar around that time tho, but refusing to join him.

What source do you have this part from?

The book "The First Heretic", a novel about the Word Bearers, describes the dropsite massacre.

Also the Horus Heresy range coming from Forge World goes so far as to lay out deployment zones for all of the legions and support groups that fought in the massacre.

There may have been another Horus Heresy novel, but I cannot think of it.

Magnus chats to Lorgar at various points in the (wibbly wobbly) timeline in Aurelian and First Heretic.

You get a touch of Magnus indecision in Scars, and a bit more In the audio novel Thief of Revelations.

In The First Heretic, the chat with Magnus takes place before Lorgar turns to Chaos, before Lorgar learns what Chaos is.

The conversation ends when Lorgar asks Magnus if anything exists in the warp and Magnus responds by teleporting back to his ship, causing a shock wave that wrecks Lorgar's house.

Needless to say, this is not when Magnus was corrupted.

Yup. Although probably not by the inquisitions standards.. Magnus knows there are warp entities, and has bargained with them,..
And all his legionaries have companion daemons, but are too naive to know the threat they pose.

He was tricked by the chaos lords into sending a message of warning to the Emporer through the use of sorcery that the Horus Heresy was happening. It was forbidden to use sorcery for a reason, Unbeknownst to Magnus, the sorcerous message he sent wrecked things up with the webway the Emporer was repairing and causing his defences in the immaterium to collapse and forever more left Terra on the edge of a huge daemon invasion. This is the act that will cause his portal to require him to be sitting on the Golden Throne and essentially live out the next 10k yrs trapped in the warp fighting off the ocean of daemons all surrounding Terra. This is why the Emporer got real pissed and sent another chapter to slaughter the Thousand Sons as they were now inadvertently in the folds of Chaos. From there on they escape into the Eye along with the other traitors. I'm not sure what happens to Magnus from then but Ahriman is much more intentionally cruel and a willful pawn of the chaos lords, at some point he diverges from his master, casts the Rubrican and essentially runs the Thousand Sons since. I'd say that despite being an all powerful sorceror, Magnus's downfall was his own ignorance of what his decision would cause when trying to loyally and dutifully warn his beloved Emporer. Anyone else know what happened to Magnus since? Has he ever truly embraced Chaos afterwards? Is he even still alive?

 ProwlerPC wrote:
He was tricked by the chaos lords into sending a message of warning to the Emporer through the use of sorcery that the Horus Heresy was happening. It was forbidden to use sorcery for a reason, Unbeknownst to Magnus, the sorcerous message he sent wrecked things up with the webway the Emporer was repairing and causing his defences in the immaterium to collapse and forever more left Terra on the edge of a huge daemon invasion. This is the act that will cause his portal to require him to be sitting on the Golden Throne and essentially live out the next 10k yrs trapped in the warp fighting off the ocean of daemons all surrounding Terra. This is why the Emporer got real pissed and sent another chapter to slaughter the Thousand Sons as they were now inadvertently in the folds of Chaos. From there on they escape into the Eye along with the other traitors. I'm not sure what happens to Magnus from then but Ahriman is much more intentionally cruel and a willful pawn of the chaos lords, at some point he diverges from his master, casts the Rubrican and essentially runs the Thousand Sons since. I'd say that despite being an all powerful sorceror, Magnus's downfall was his own ignorance of what his decision would cause when trying to loyally and dutifully warn his beloved Emporer. Anyone else know what happened to Magnus since? Has he ever truly embraced Chaos afterwards? Is he even still alive?

The Emperor sent Russ to apprehend, not destroy Magnus. Horus changed the order in the hope that two potentially dangerous Legions would destroy each other and wouldn't be able to interfere with his plans. Yes, we know Magnus is alive and well as a Daemon Primarch on the Planet of Sorcerors.

The only recorded battle with Magnus since the rubric that I've heard of is the Battle of the Fang.
Magnus is a daemon prince... so embracing chaos is pretty much compulsory (Although he might deny it )


Magnus refused to talk to Abaddon, when he was prepping for the 13th black crusade.

Magnusite Thousand Sons are super-rare outside the Eye of Terror - the iconic blue armour of the Thousand Sons actually represents Ahriman's faction, who are effectively in a state of cold war with the Magnusites on the Planet of the Sorcerers.

MarsNZ wrote:The Emperor sent Russ to apprehend, not destroy Magnus. Horus changed the order in the hope that two potentially dangerous Legions would destroy each other and wouldn't be able to interfere with his plans.

Yes, I remember this. This is mentioned in the novel False Gods.

Captyn_Bob wrote:Magnus refused to talk to Abaddon, when he was prepping for the 13th black crusade.

Thanks. According to what source?

Furyou Miko wrote:Magnusite Thousand Sons are super-rare outside the Eye of Terror - the iconic blue armour of the Thousand Sons actually represents Ahriman's faction, who are effectively in a state of cold war with the Magnusites on the Planet of the Sorcerers.

Thanks. According to what source?

A slightly different question;

When the Emperor ordered Russ to bring him back to Terra, what do you think he was going to do to him? Punish him by making him sit on the Throne for the damage he did?

There would have been a stern scolding. Magnus would then be forced to stay inside while all the other primarchs went out recess.

If the Emperor was feeling especially angry, he might make Magnus write lines on a chalkboard.

The Thousand Sons are an interesting case.

They never really sided with Horus in the rebellion. Magnus was being disobedient, but he never intended to betray the Imperium. They do however hate the Wolves with a passion. Horus tricked the Wolves into attacking Prospero, and that pushed the Thousand sons into siding with Chaos. But unlike the other legions, the Thousand Sons really don't have a beef with the Emperor. They hate the Space Wolves, and they hate Tzeentch for how they got maneuvered.

Thats why Arhiman is searching for a cure, and possibly a way to escape Tzeentch's grasph. Magnus has pretty much just given up on that and is mostly just sulking in his tower.

SpectrumDT wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:Magnus refused to talk to Abaddon, when he was prepping for the 13th black crusade.

Thanks. According to what source?

-Codex Black Legion

Furyou Miko wrote:Magnusite Thousand Sons are super-rare outside the Eye of Terror - the iconic blue armour of the Thousand Sons actually represents Ahriman's faction, who are effectively in a state of cold war with the Magnusites on the Planet of the Sorcerers.

Thanks. According to what source?

-Ahriman Exile

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thamor wrote:
A slightly different question;

When the Emperor ordered Russ to bring him back to Terra, what do you think he was going to do to him? Punish him by making him sit on the Throne for the damage he did?

Magnus was always fated to sit on the golden throne, and control the human webway gate system. After he destroyed that plan, the Emperor wanted him back to sit in the throne, so he could hold the warp breach closed whilst the Emperor fought Horus.

(in the end Malcador ha to do this, but could only do so for a short period of time. Magnus assumedly could have managed it for much longer/indefinitely. )



(no source here, just conjecture and intuition, mostly gleaned from the Collected visions fluff, which is admittedly becoming outdated as the main storyline catches up)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Thousand Sons are an interesting case.

They never really sided with Horus in the rebellion. Magnus was being disobedient, but he never intended to betray the Imperium. They do however hate the Wolves with a passion. Horus tricked the Wolves into attacking Prospero, and that pushed the Thousand sons into siding with Chaos. But unlike the other legions, the Thousand Sons really don't have a beef with the Emperor. They hate the Space Wolves, and they hate Tzeentch for how they got maneuvered.

Thats why Arhiman is searching for a cure, and possibly a way to escape Tzeentch's grasph. Magnus has pretty much just given up on that and is mostly just sulking in his tower.

Unless the authors change the timeline, then the Thousand Sons will /eventually/ side with Horus. But it hasn't happened yet. (There's a bit of foreshadowing in Thief of revelations tho).

Part of me wants them not to... but I think it will happen.

Magnus first fought alongside the Traitors at Terra where they used their psychic powers to deadly effect, while the Word Bearers unleashed demon hordes, forcing the Loyalists to revoke Nikea and deploy Psykers to combat the threat.

In the new timeline, no one knows.

It would have been after the burning of Prospero. There isn't any in text evidence to support this, but after feeling betrayed by the Emperor, he threw in his lot with Horus. He didn't know Horus changed the order. but by thart point heh ad laready been trapped by Tzeench.

On an unrelated note, the situation with the message spell that broke the webwway happened slightly differently than has been described. Magnus didn't just stroll in and accidentally disrupt some wards. He found he couldn't get through and a warp entity (read Tzeench) offered him the power to break through. the effect would be similar to knocking on someones door with a tank shell. He decimated it

For what it's worth, the Thousand Son's Index Astartes article said "And in that instant, the City of Light, its silver towers and vast libraries and its Legion of Thousand Sons vanished from the face of Prospero, and the Imperium, forever. When Magnus and his Thousand Sons were seen again, it was above Istvaan V, fighting alongside Horus."

A salient point there is 'above' not 'on', the Forge World books give a great deal of detail on ground deployments but IIRC don't give many specifics about the fleet action other than it's brutality and one sidedness.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

SpectrumDT wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:Magnus refused to talk to Abaddon, when he was prepping for the 13th black crusade.

Thanks. According to what source?

-Codex Black Legion

Is that this one? http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Black-Legion.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
Magnus first fought alongside the Traitors at Terra where they used their psychic powers to deadly effect, while the Word Bearers unleashed demon hordes, forcing the Loyalists to revoke Nikea and deploy Psykers to combat the threat.

Thanks. What source do you have this from?

Yep, that codex Black legion.

SpectrumDT wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

SpectrumDT wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:Magnus refused to talk to Abaddon, when he was prepping for the 13th black crusade.

Thanks. According to what source?

-Codex Black Legion

Is that this one? http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Black-Legion.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
Magnus first fought alongside the Traitors at Terra where they used their psychic powers to deadly effect, while the Word Bearers unleashed demon hordes, forcing the Loyalists to revoke Nikea and deploy Psykers to combat the threat.

Thanks. What source do you have this from?

General backstory I think, not sure on a specific source. Maybe fluff sections of 5th Ed or 6th Ed SM, BRB or CSM books. Try Lexicanum too.

Just to be awkward , the hunt for Magnus , by Chris Wright, has Magnusite Rubricae wearing blue. This is contradictory to the story established by John French.

Of course when dealing with Tzeentch worshippers who live in the eye of terror, where a linear timeline is optional, is was never going to be easy was it.

Put that down to Wraight not knowing the fluff at all.

 Gashrog wrote:
For what it's worth, the Thousand Son's Index Astartes article said "And in that instant, the City of Light, its silver towers and vast libraries and its Legion of Thousand Sons vanished from the face of Prospero, and the Imperium, forever. When Magnus and his Thousand Sons were seen again, it was above Istvaan V, fighting alongside Horus."

A salient point there is 'above' not 'on', the Forge World books give a great deal of detail on ground deployments but IIRC don't give many specifics about the fleet action other than it's brutality and one sidedness.

Index Astartes is generally outdated these days tbh. It's probably been retconned.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:
For what it's worth, the Thousand Son's Index Astartes article said "And in that instant, the City of Light, its silver towers and vast libraries and its Legion of Thousand Sons vanished from the face of Prospero, and the Imperium, forever. When Magnus and his Thousand Sons were seen again, it was above Istvaan V, fighting alongside Horus."

A salient point there is 'above' not 'on', the Forge World books give a great deal of detail on ground deployments but IIRC don't give many specifics about the fleet action other than it's brutality and one sidedness.

Index Astartes is generally outdated these days tbh. It's probably been retconned.

What about the Thousand Sons fleet? It could have escaped from Prospero.

 Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:
It could have escaped from Prospero.

It's definitely possible. The TS fleet was scattered. We know one ship went back to Prospero, but the fate of the rest is unrecorded.

Chances are, some joined Horus, equally some may have remained loyal (although would have found working with imperial forces very difficult..)

 Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:
For what it's worth, the Thousand Son's Index Astartes article said "And in that instant, the City of Light, its silver towers and vast libraries and its Legion of Thousand Sons vanished from the face of Prospero, and the Imperium, forever. When Magnus and his Thousand Sons were seen again, it was above Istvaan V, fighting alongside Horus."

A salient point there is 'above' not 'on', the Forge World books give a great deal of detail on ground deployments but IIRC don't give many specifics about the fleet action other than it's brutality and one sidedness.

Index Astartes is generally outdated these days tbh. It's probably been retconned.

What about the Thousand Sons fleet? It could have escaped from Prospero.

Oh, I'm not saying it's not canon, but it does seem retconned.

MarsNZ wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
He was tricked by the chaos lords into sending a message of warning to the Emporer through the use of sorcery that the Horus Heresy was happening. It was forbidden to use sorcery for a reason, Unbeknownst to Magnus, the sorcerous message he sent wrecked things up with the webway the Emporer was repairing and causing his defences in the immaterium to collapse and forever more left Terra on the edge of a huge daemon invasion. This is the act that will cause his portal to require him to be sitting on the Golden Throne and essentially live out the next 10k yrs trapped in the warp fighting off the ocean of daemons all surrounding Terra. This is why the Emporer got real pissed and sent another chapter to slaughter the Thousand Sons as they were now inadvertently in the folds of Chaos. From there on they escape into the Eye along with the other traitors. I'm not sure what happens to Magnus from then but Ahriman is much more intentionally cruel and a willful pawn of the chaos lords, at some point he diverges from his master, casts the Rubrican and essentially runs the Thousand Sons since. I'd say that despite being an all powerful sorceror, Magnus's downfall was his own ignorance of what his decision would cause when trying to loyally and dutifully warn his beloved Emporer. Anyone else know what happened to Magnus since? Has he ever truly embraced Chaos afterwards? Is he even still alive?

The Emperor sent Russ to apprehend, not destroy Magnus. Horus changed the order in the hope that two potentially dangerous Legions would destroy each other and wouldn't be able to interfere with his plans. Yes, we know Magnus is alive and well as a Daemon Primarch on the Planet of Sorcerors.

When Russ attacked Prospero and ended up breaking Magnus's back, magnus reached out to Tzeench for help. That is when he joined chaos and untimately became a willing pawn in their aim. Horus was leading for forces of Chaos at the time, so he joined Horus right after Russ attacked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Thousand Sons are an interesting case.

They never really sided with Horus in the rebellion. Magnus was being disobedient, but he never intended to betray the Imperium. They do however hate the Wolves with a passion. Horus tricked the Wolves into attacking Prospero, and that pushed the Thousand sons into siding with Chaos. But unlike the other legions, the Thousand Sons really don't have a beef with the Emperor. They hate the Space Wolves, and they hate Tzeentch for how they got maneuvered.

Thats why Arhiman is searching for a cure, and possibly a way to escape Tzeentch's grasph. Magnus has pretty much just given up on that and is mostly just sulking in his tower.

For all the things the Tsons can see as great diviners, they do not know that Horus was the one to send Russ to destroy them. They think the Emperor did, and thus they hate the Empire. They hate the SW more because they were the forces that burned their home but they think the order came from higher.

Your gonna want to read A Thousand Sons.