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HI all,
So, the Story behind my space marine army is that, posibly durring the 13 founding (ooooooohhhhh), the Inquisition recived trough backstabbing, lying, cheating and General Inquisitor Stuff, the closest Thing the Tau can call Geneseed. They, being Inquisitors, used this, and Genes from the Raven Guard, to create a new Chapter of Space Marines, the Shadow Hunters. Of course this went wrong, because ,along with the telltale blue Skin, the new Marines recived the Taus undieing commitment to the Greater Good, and appon aweakening, embarked on a crusade into Tau Space, finally Setteling on the planet Tigris, or T`gris. Later the came into Contackt with the Raven Guard, who convinced them to bow to the Emperor. The Shadow Hunters accepted this, and used it as a way to bring other Humans to the Path of the Greater Good. After answering the Salamanders call to return to Armageddon, the Chapter launched its Intire 3-9 companys to Armageddon. They would never return. After a severe Warpstorm, the intire Fleet was sucked into the Eye Of Teror, and, because this is 40k, chaos marines of the Black Legion took this time to Invade the planet Tigris, where the Chapter master and most of the 1 and 2 Company where. After a huge battle the defenders retreated to the Shrine of Corax, where the Raven Guard had left relics belonging to the Primarch, here, Scriptor Magister Ashult commited the ultimate sacrifice, sealing his brothrs in the Shrine, and also purging the planet of Chaos.
to be continued

Ember

I can sort of buy Eldar and Humans breeding because it goes into the long established fantasy trope of Elves and Humans being compatible, and Eldar and Humans look extremely similar to one another even when the author is trying to make them seem more alien and less like pretty, pointy eared skinny people. But Tau and Humans? No. You'd literally have better luck trying to breed a human together with a jellyfish.

Not to mention the thirteenth founding took place long, long before the Tau became a force on the galactic stage.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:

to be continued

Ember

Please don't.

It hit me right in the fluff

Exactly correct, Kain. The Tau were primitives at the time of that founding.

Even if the Tau were a successful competitor to the Imperium at the time they have no physical characteristics that would improve human-centric gene stock. They have zero psychic potential. There's no real reason to pollute humanity with what the Emperor would deem inferior xeno DNA.

On the flip side, with the miracle of gene-engineering there's no need to actually mate Humans and Tau in the traditional way. If you were going to conduct the vile heresy of transgenic crossbreeding, selective in-vitro fertilization followed by carefully monitored vat gestation makes a lot more sense than a cross-species coupling that may not be biologically viable.

Someone in the Mechanicum has probably tried something like this at some point. Mad science is a thing with the more radical tech priests, after all. However, in my unsupported opinion they probably chose something like Orks for toughness or Eldar for psychic potential rather than the genetically lackluster Tau as their nonhuman half of the pairing.

OP: Your heretical thoughts are noted and duly reported to the nearest Inquisitonal authority, citizen. In Imperator Virtu Est!

My two cents, you foul xeno lover, you.

I think it could be a cool idea from a modeling perspective, though fluff wise there is just so much that does not add up for the Imperium. With how purge-happy inquisitors tend to be, and the hate of xenos scum, it seems very unlikely that they would even consider touching a vial of Tau geneseed.

Maybe a more fitting background would be some sort of tampering with the geneseed process, or a renegade chapter/mad scientists wanted to make his own legion. But the Raven Guard not instantly purging a foul cross-bred space marine seems unlikely.

The whole idea behind it is that the Tau where a almost galacticlly nonexistent race then, and that the Inquisition was just experimenting with genetic mutations. The greater good existed then, though. SO YEAH IT MAKES PERFECT SENCE IF YOU THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!!!!
And honestly if Daemons and other Dimensions exist Human/Tau hybrids can too



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And why would the raven guard kill them when there only visible mutation is ther Blueish skin.
Raven Guard have an Albino Skin Mutation.

Ha

Oh boy. Somebody call the Moderati, we need an exterminatus here.

1) Human and Tau hybrids cannot exist- just as Eldar and Human ones can no longer exist either. They're not only different species, but come from different planets with a completely different evolutionary history. Tell me, with a straight face, do you think an Octopus could breed with a Deer? Because the genetic difference between a Tau and a Human will be GREATER than that.

2) Only human males can receive geneseed. Those that are genetically altered such as freakish Tau/Human hybrids will die. It's physically impossible for any to survive.

3) Lolwut. Having the genetic material of a Tau wouldn't make you suddenly fall for the Greater Good. Do you even know what the Tau are? Or why they follow the Greater Good to begin with?

4) Having blue skin is either going to get them purged or completely ostracized from any Imperial aid. Do you seriously not see the difference between somebody with pale white or grey skin and somebody with BLUE skin? One of those naturally occurs. The other is a couple shades off from normal human skin color/looks like a corpse. The other is not only completely unnatural, impossible, but also hints at far greater mutation deeper in the flesh.

Tau lack the sexual dimorphism found in humans. They're males and females are different, but not in any way immediately recognisable by a human outside of a dissection lab. Attempts to breed would be comparable to, as stated earlier, a human and a jellyfish.

Bypassing this limitation, assuming they are fertilised in-vitro (in a test tube), they would still probably not be compatible. Chromosomes are very tricky to mess with, there need to be the exact same amount and the locii need to line up just right for things like meiosis to take place. Slight deviations can lead to disastrous consequences such as Downs (which is caused by an extra chromosome). Do you want a space marine chapter of marines with Down's syndrome?

Even though I am on the nature side of the nature vs. nurture debate, even I think you over emphasise the importance of the Tau genes. Genes code for the production of a protein or RNA strand. These proteins can affect how information is transmitted or received inside the organism. Genes do not program directly for behaviour, especially not something as complex as loyalty to a cause. Even in the Tau empire, loyalty to the Greater Good is not some universal biological constant. The Farsight Enclaves are proof of this as they rejected the concept and work towards their own ends.

The Thirteenth Founding took place in the 35th millennium. At this time, Tau'n had just been discovered by an explorers and did not possess any of the advanced technology that it is known for. The Tau were primitive creatures that had recently discovered fire. Unless the inquisition is interested in breeding with primitive animals, they probably would have picked a different race. The Tau had yet to develop the Greater Good. That would not come for several generations at least, until after the invention of gunpowder and siege warfare as it was at the siege of Fio'Taun that they first appeared.

The Raven Guard would not allow traitorous marines to live, especially those that came from their own geneseed. Turning their backs on the Emperor's will is the cardinal sin that a space marine can commit. Minor infractions demand execution, major grievances result in expulsion from humanity and the complete destruction of any record containing their deeds and accomplishments. If the Raven Guard found the chapter, they would be honour bound to destroy them, especially if they are spreading seditious beliefs. They most certainly would not feel compelled to build a shrine to their primarch and then leave precious relics behind with a bunch of xenos rutting traitors.

Armageddon, Tigris (which shows up on the 30K map), and the Eye of Terror are quite a ways apart. To be called away to fight in Armageddon would be like calling a pizza hut two provinces away to place an order. The Black Legion is currently tied up fighting CREEED! at Cadia, meaning they would have some difficulty in attacking a world so far away.

I suggest that you take the time to revise your fluff. Maybe read some of the codexes for the armies that you are including before you stick them in there.

Or you could just rename the chapter Mary Sue Marines and call it a day.

No a deer could not breed with a Octopus. BUUUUUUUT there genes could be conbined <---- straight face

YES THE TAU HAVE A NATURAL BLUE SKIN COLOR!!!!!



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And Mabel they went to Armageddon to PROVE THEY WHERE LOYAL!!!!
And I know Tigris shows up. I read the books



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And they where invaded BEFORE THE BLACK LEGION WENT TO ARMAGEDDON

And Exterminatus is the WORST thing to do!!!
Common Guys lets kill our own People!!!!
FOR THE GREATER GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
No a deer could not breed with a Octopus. BUUUUUUUT there genes could be conbined <---- straight face

YES THE TAU HAVE A NATURAL BLUE SKIN COLOR!!!!!

No. You can't just mix and match genes without potentially killing that which you're toying with. Genetics does not work like lego blocks.

Just as a tip, when making a DIY Chapter, don't think outside the box. The box exists for a good reason. But just to see if you're actually serious, why not post this on the Bolter and Chainsword? They after all do have the Liber Astartes section.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
No a deer could not breed with a Octopus. BUUUUUUUT there genes could be conbined <---- straight face

YES THE TAU HAVE A NATURAL BLUE SKIN COLOR!!!!!

Genes are complicated and severe problems arise from slight differences. Even within a species (human), we have loads of diseases that come from slight mismatches.

And Mabel they went to Armageddon to PROVE THEY WHERE LOYAL!!!!

Mabel went to Armageddon! What will Dipper do?

And I know Tigris shows up. I read the books

Good. Now go read some more.

And they where invaded BEFORE THE BLACK LEGION WENT TO ARMAGEDDON

They. . . They never went to Armageddon. Armageddon has been attacked by Agron and his Khorny horde and Ghazghkul Mag Uruk Thraka.

And Exterminatus is the WORST thing to do!!!
Common Guys lets kill our own People!!!!
FOR THE GREATER GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!

There are cases where exterminatus becomes the only solution. When it is a choice between sacrificing a planet that you have evacuated everything you can or losing this system and probably others to whatever it is you're exterminating, I would be first in line to press the button.

Sorry I meant went to Cadiz it's been a long day.....



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And it was Mabey and Cadia

Frankly, there's a ton of deal-breaking flaws in your fluff. They've all been covered by other people in this thread already, and your attitude about this criticism is pretty telling.

Thank You.

Oh dear Omnissiah...

I'm all about the Xenotech.... But this...


THIS IS FETHING HERESY RIGHT HERE.

I declare Exterminatus upon this chapter. Fluff is WAYYYYY too out-of-setting.

It may help to ask and answer these questions. and be honest with yourself:

Why do you want this in your chapter?

What is your goal for a story here?

Why do you need to break the fluff so strongly to do it?

I want a semi heretical chapter, that linkes the Imperium to the Greater Good, I want a chapter that is mistrusted, like the Space wolves, but loyal like Raven guard.

There
I said it.
ember


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AND WHY THE STRONG FLUFF!!
THIS IS 40K!!!!!!

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
I want a semi heretical chapter, that linkes the Imperium to the Greater Good, I want a chapter that is mistrusted, like the Space wolves, but loyal like Raven guard.

There
I said it.
ember


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AND WHY THE STRONG FLUFF!!
THIS IS 40K!!!!!!

The only thing your Chapter would end up as is purged. Heavily. A task force of Raven Guard, multiple Raven Guard successors, and a healthy serving of some motley combination of the Ordo Malleus and the Ordo Xenos would drop on this... strange oddity, and wipe it out. It doesn't fit or work in 40K at all.

WE IS RAVEN GUARD SUCCSESOR!!!!!!!!
DEY NO PURGE US!!!!!!

Ember, still on the Shadow Hunter side.



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And also on the Tau side.

Common, just accept that stuff happens that can't be controlled by your perfect little Imperium, but we are HELPING you guys , so don't Exterminate us.





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But the Imperium has left us alone for a LONG time!!!!

Not so much left the Tau Empire alone as threw a few swipes which failed to squash the gnat which has only grown more incessantly annoying.

Excommunicate Traitorus

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Exactly correct, Kain. The Tau were primitives at the time of that founding.

Even if the Tau were a successful competitor to the Imperium at the time they have no physical characteristics that would improve human-centric gene stock. They have zero psychic potential. There's no real reason to pollute humanity with what the Emperor would deem inferior xeno DNA.

On the flip side, with the miracle of gene-engineering there's no need to actually mate Humans and Tau in the traditional way. If you were going to conduct the vile heresy of transgenic crossbreeding, selective in-vitro fertilization followed by carefully monitored vat gestation makes a lot more sense than a cross-species coupling that may not be biologically viable.

Someone in the Mechanicum has probably tried something like this at some point. Mad science is a thing with the more radical tech priests, after all. However, in my unsupported opinion they probably chose something like Orks for toughness or Eldar for psychic potential rather than the genetically lackluster Tau as their nonhuman half of the pairing.

OP: Your heretical thoughts are noted and duly reported to the nearest Inquisitonal authority, citizen. In Imperator Virtu Est!

My two cents, you foul xeno lover, you.

The Tau wouldn't even have DNA molecules that are even remotely compatible with humans. Our genetic coding is a peculiarity of our environment, and something from a different planet would have a very different genetic code. The Tyranids get a pass because that's literally their thing; but the Imperium and Tau? Nope. Absolutely no indication that they can do that and it wouldn't even make any thematical sense.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
WE IS RAVEN GUARD SUCCSESOR!!!!!!!!
DEY NO PURGE US!!!!!!

Ember, still on the Shadow Hunter side.



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And also on the Tau side.

Common, just accept that stuff happens that can't be controlled by your perfect little Imperium, but we are HELPING you guys , so don't Exterminate us.





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But the Imperium has left us alone for a LONG time!!!!

Honestly, I'm not sure if you're serious about this.
We've all said that your idea doesn't fit in with 40k fluff. However, you have shown no sign of changing your mind on this issue. Why post it here if you weren't willing to change it? You seem to have little knowledge on 40k lore, which is fine, but please don't ignore the advice of people who are giving you perfectly fine advice. curran12 has even tried to make your idea less... heretical, yet you won't accept it. You really aren't making a wonderful job of selling your chapter convincingly.
But hey, your guys, amiright? Your call.

Eh, to be honest it seems like Ember is having fun with it. More power to em.

Does this chapter make sense? Naw. But it's not like his heretical shenanigans take anything away from me.

If anything I appreciate the outside the box direction, somewhat a breathe of fresh heresy tainted air. Hell, when I was 14-15 my loyalist marines were rolling with DE, and it was the coolest thing in the world to me.

 clamclaw wrote:
Eh, to be honest it seems like Ember is having fun with it. More power to em.

Does this chapter make sense? Naw. But it's not like his heretical shenanigans take anything away from me.

If anything I appreciate the outside the box direction, somewhat a breathe of fresh heresy tainted air. Hell, when I was 14-15 my loyalist marines were rolling with DE, and it was the coolest thing in the world to me.

It's not supported at all by 40K at all. Same with Hello Kitty Marines or Female Space Marines, this is the sort of thing I'd turn down a game for 10/10 times. The TT is absolutely godawful mechanics-wise, the only reason to even stick around if for GW's fluff. If you slaughter that, there's simply no point.

If you really want to merge tau and Space marines in a fluff setting, you could have them work together, there are even precedents for human factions joining the tau... they have a word for it. so it is conceivable that a raven guard successor chapter has secret dealings with the tau and maintain facade of loyalty to the imperium because they like being in both situations. it would be precarious but similar to the ways the DA comport themselves in regard to hiding the secret of the Fallen.

The practicality of mixing the races in any meaningful way just isn't feasible. its like the Island of Dr. Moreau but on a level several orders of magnitude higher. so i think that route is a dead end.

The Tau were pre-Industrial at the time of the 13th Founding and blocked off by a Warp Storm by the time of the 21st Founding.

Not really sure why/how the Imperium would have wanted to make Human/Tau hybrids, or what they would have stood to gain.\ from doing so.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Not really sure why/how the Imperium would have wanted to make Human/Tau hybrids, or what they would have stood to gain.\ from doing so.

Especially considering that Tau are one of the few races that actually are physically inferior to humans.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 clamclaw wrote:
Eh, to be honest it seems like Ember is having fun with it. More power to em.

Does this chapter make sense? Naw. But it's not like his heretical shenanigans take anything away from me.

If anything I appreciate the outside the box direction, somewhat a breathe of fresh heresy tainted air. Hell, when I was 14-15 my loyalist marines were rolling with DE, and it was the coolest thing in the world to me.

It's not supported at all by 40K at all. Same with Hello Kitty Marines or Female Space Marines, this is the sort of thing I'd turn down a game for 10/10 times. The TT is absolutely godawful mechanics-wise, the only reason to even stick around if for GW's fluff. If you slaughter that, there's simply no point.

Eh, most of what you said is 100% opinion based though... I'm with you that the fluff is a big driving factor for people sticking with the game, but you can't pretend that everybody has the exact same stance as you. There is no wrong way to enjoy the hobby, and it's not required to take it seriously. People have different ways to derive enjoyment.

So some 10 year old kid rolls up to the store one afternoon and wants to play a game with his non-approved GW fluff themed Space Marines. Am I going to turn him down and tell him his narrative is gak? Absolutely not, he found a way to enjoy the game by his own means.