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no relic bearer for company masters? this is bs, im retiring my deathwing command squad for knights now, that was such a dumb move, the relic bearers apparently all dedicaded that the captains werent worth their time anymore.

it was hardly a broken combo, it was an upgrade nobody took beacsue fearless was everywhere or ld 8+ which made the relic bearer not very useful.

man now im going to need to move to deathwing knight now.. and their god awful.

To be honest, the "people wont play against unbound" is a bit pointless considering a lot of people wont even play against some bound armies these days. Maybe half of the players at my local store wont play against eldar at all

Has anyone noticed how awesome sammaels landspeeder is now?

Armour 14 with a 4++ or rerollable 3+ jink AND vector strike type shenanigans!

 jokerkd wrote:

Has anyone noticed how awesome sammaels landspeeder is now?

Armour 14 with a 4++ or rerollable 3+ jink AND vector strike type shenanigans!

That's good since I already have the model (I actually don't have the jetbike Sammy ). Looking forward to using it for something other than fun and giggles.

Greenwing Command squads got a boost in that any can take from the speical weapons list.

Give them grav-guns with a Sacred Standard (relentless, counter-attack) to unlock the Salvo 3 max range.

Mix and match gear/transports/IC for some sick sick stuff:
Apothecary and/or SS for 3++ or Azreal for 2+/4++ tank
Slot in Lions Blade Detachment for full Ballistics on overwatch...that is a freaking nasty unit for counter charge.
Double up the Demi-companies for double the fun with free pods...(probably not feasible points wise)
Prescience librarian to twin link!?

DW Command squad Apoth went down to the cost of 1 MB, I didn't notice that before.

 Brillow80 wrote:
Greenwing Command squads got a boost in that any can take from the speical weapons list.

Give them grav-guns with a Sacred Standard (relentless, counter-attack) to unlock the Salvo 3 max range.

Mix and match gear/transports/IC for some sick sick stuff:
Apothecary and/or SS for 3++ or Azreal for 2+/4++ tank
Slot in Lions Blade Detachment for full Ballistics on overwatch...that is a freaking nasty unit for counter charge.
Double up the Demi-companies for double the fun with free pods...(probably not feasible points wise)
Prescience librarian to twin link!?

DW Command squad Apoth went down to the cost of 1 MB, I didn't notice that before.

I'm wondering why the veteran squad is still even a thing now.

The command squad is identical base and has way more options

 jokerkd wrote:

 Brillow80 wrote:
Greenwing Command squads got a boost in that any can take from the speical weapons list.

Give them grav-guns with a Sacred Standard (relentless, counter-attack) to unlock the Salvo 3 max range.

Mix and match gear/transports/IC for some sick sick stuff:
Apothecary and/or SS for 3++ or Azreal for 2+/4++ tank
Slot in Lions Blade Detachment for full Ballistics on overwatch...that is a freaking nasty unit for counter charge.
Double up the Demi-companies for double the fun with free pods...(probably not feasible points wise)
Prescience librarian to twin link!?

DW Command squad Apoth went down to the cost of 1 MB, I didn't notice that before.

I'm wondering why the veteran squad is still even a thing now.

The command squad is identical base and has way more options

More bodies?

Also, not sure if this was covered but:

Vengeful Strike: A model with the Deathwing special rule that arrives by Deep Strike treats all of its ranged weapons as having the twin linked special rule until the end of the turn.

note: almost all the HQ's have the Deathwing special rule.

After reviewing the whole codex... three things are obvious to me.

1. GW can't proof read or write rules worth a feth

2. Ravenwing are the power build IF their detachment get's FAQd for librarians to get the ravenwing rule

3. Rules as written, you can't run a pure, bound deathwing army without auto losing.

Quick question, so the RW and DW formations can be taken in addition to a CAD or different detachment by themselves or only part of the Lions Blade?

 Commissar Merces wrote:
After reviewing the whole codex... three things are obvious to me.

1. GW can't proof read or write rules worth a feth

2. Ravenwing are the power build IF their detachment get's FAQd for librarians to get the ravenwing rule

3. Rules as written, you can't run a pure, bound deathwing army without auto losing.

Did you notice the DW Command Squad can take a DW Company Banner or a Sacred Banner...even though the Company banner gives more benefit at less cost?

It reminded me of the MotW on the prior SW codex...

Holy crap!! Those vehicle formations are insane!!. Land raider and vindis , just fire them all as separate blasts, cast powers on the entire unit.....wow. I can see some crazy allied shenanigans with IG and engineseers. Once the first turn is done he can leave and join any other unit giving them monster and tank hunters.....jesus

Dark shroud formation solves so many of the issues with it, gives the entire unit a +3 cover save at all times while also giving it ablative wounds.....Jesus this is a resilient army

And interomancy is awesome, so many good powers. Great for any assault based army.

Even with the nerf to rad grenades the -1 ws and init is pretty nice. Still be running it on my cmd squad. White scars and ravenguard definitely fill different niches as a bike army. Can even run all black wing Knights if you want lol.

Quick question, so the RW and DW formations can be taken in addition to a CAD or different detachment by themselves or only part of the Lions Blade?

I'm pretty sure all can be taken in addition to a CAD, or standalone.
RW Attack/Support/Silence Squadrons and DW Redemption are formation detachments with the Dark Angels faction.

Deathwing/Ravenwing Strike Force(s) are detachments of those names (not formations)

 Leth wrote:
Holy crap!! Those vehicle formations are insane!!. Land raider and vindis , just fire them all as separate blasts, cast powers on the entire unit.....wow. I can see some crazy allied shenanigans with IG and engineseers. Once the first turn is done he can leave and join any other unit giving them monster and tank hunters.....jesus

Dark shroud formation solves so many of the issues with it, gives the entire unit a +3 cover save at all times while also giving it ablative wounds.....Jesus this is a resilient army

That was the idea, dark angels are,imo the most resilient space marines. It's part of their shtick. "Not one step back" and all that.

The formations help a bit, but man... GW needs to FAQ the crap out of this the day it drops.

Flgs will be fine, if they try to force you to not run generic HQs politely find another person to play.

yeah the command sqd is great with all grav guns and relentless. nathecium prices are odd though. 5pts for DW, 15pts for regular and 30pts fro RW.

 bullyboy wrote:
yeah the command sqd is great with all grav guns and relentless. nathecium prices are odd though. 5pts for DW, 15pts for regular and 30pts fro RW.

I'd wager vets is due to "normal" marines, swap a bolt pistol (or nothing?) To get it.

DW you probably swap out the power fist...

RW you swap a bolt pistol, but because T5 you pay more...

"Balance"

Ravenwing with re rollable 3+cover saves and gets hot weapons on top of being the best unit to attach characters too and improved toughness.

Yea, it's much more powerful on that unit

Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

You could do that... but if you go first, your dreadnought isn't going to be still alive by the end of the turn?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

because the formation rule dictates that ALL units must start in Deep Strike Reserve so nothing will appear until Turn 2.

Obviously, just ally this formation with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force that drops on Turn 1.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
We all know the real reason is to sell models. If a SM army of 10 could take on an Ork or IG army of 100+, no one would buy Orks or IG (except for the occasional nutter like me).

If an in-game arguement is needed I always figured that 40k is not a 1:1 representation for most armies. IE 1 marine model=1 marine, but 1 IG/Ork/Nid model=10 or more actual troops.

To back this up, Guardsmen are even almost as tall as power armored marines on the tabletop.

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

because the formation rule dictates that ALL units must start in Deep Strike Reserve so nothing will appear until Turn 2.

Obviously, just ally this formation with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force that drops on Turn 1.

Not the formation, the Strike Force. The strike force does not arrive as one.

Explain to me why people are upset that they can't run a "pure Deathwing" i.e. all terminator army? Nobody in their right mind did that! Sure, in the old codex you could come in on turn one, but you also had to have half your units on the table or you automatically lost. What, were people hiding single terminators in ruins? Dark Eldar have more durable armies than that!

Yes, it sucks that you instantly lose if you make the Deathwing formation your entire army. If only there was some way to take multiple detachments or formations in the same army...

The real problem is that GW's rules writing has apparently reached a new low. RW unable to take an HQ other than Sammael? Useless slots in formations and FOC's? I'm starting to wonder if the ability to take heavy weapons on every Eldar Windrider really was a typo, along with the Wraithknight's points cost. At least the issue is so glaring that GW might have to (gasp!) FAQ the problem away, like they did with an issue in the last Space Wolves codex.

With every new codex, things change. I had to adapt in more ways than one to how the new Eldar play. Same deal with people playing the new Necrons and the new Space Marines. Things changing in the new codex is to be expected. It's half the justification for buying the new codex in the first place! I don't speak for everyone, but I noticed that no one is clamoring for the old Dark Angel codex. Maybe that's some sort of indication...

Yes, formations are a massive cash grab on GW's part. No, they aren't massively unbalancing the game. None of the new formations released this year have been broken. Too powerful and nasty for casual play, sure. The main problem is that not all armies have the new formations, or don't bring the same level of power with them as other armies.

You have every right to not want to use or play against regular formations, and that's fine. But I and many others are thoroughly enjoying the power of the new formations, and fully intend to use them. I'll bet that we'll soon see plenty of Dark Angel players joining us soon now that their codex isn't bottom-tier anymore.

TL;DR: Stop being a Nurgling and rinse the nostalgia out of your eyes. Embrace the change, because it certainly hasn't been for the worse.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

because the formation rule dictates that ALL units must start in Deep Strike Reserve so nothing will appear until Turn 2.

Obviously, just ally this formation with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force that drops on Turn 1.

Not the formation, the Strike Force. The strike force does not arrive as one.

no, but the earliest it can arrive is Turn 2, even Drop pod dreads.

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

because the formation rule dictates that ALL units must start in Deep Strike Reserve so nothing will appear until Turn 2.

Obviously, just ally this formation with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force that drops on Turn 1.

Not the formation, the Strike Force. The strike force does not arrive as one.

no, but the earliest it can arrive is Turn 2, even Drop pod dreads.

why? Nothing in the Strike Force says anything about ignoring Drop Pod Assault, which would put half the pods in on turn one. What you are saying is only true of the formation.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
...but you also had to have half your units on the table or you automatically lost.

This has never been a rule.


For the last couple of editions, you lost automatically if you had nothing on the table at the end of the turn.

And the reserves rules previously required you to deploy half of your army... but units that had to start in reserve didn't count for that.

You seem to be misremembering and merging those two rules.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

because the formation rule dictates that ALL units must start in Deep Strike Reserve so nothing will appear until Turn 2.

Obviously, just ally this formation with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force that drops on Turn 1.

Not the formation, the Strike Force. The strike force does not arrive as one.

no, but the earliest it can arrive is Turn 2, even Drop pod dreads.

why? Nothing in the Strike Force says anything about ignoring Drop Pod Assault, which would put half the pods in on turn one. What you are saying is only true of the formation.

Deathwing Strike Force

Summoned to War

All units in the detachment must start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. emphasis mine

doesn't matter if you have drop Pods, the rule indicates that all units must start in deep Strike Reserve. Not sure what makes you see that any differently.

 insaniak wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
...but you also had to have half your units on the table or you automatically lost.

This has never been a rule.


For the last couple of editions, you lost automatically if you had nothing on the table at the end of the turn.

And the reserves rules previously required you to deploy half of your army... but units that had to start in reserve didn't count for that.

You seem to be misremembering and merging those two rules.

I see, thank you. My memory of irrelevant rules apparently fades fast. I do know that you still lose at the end of the game turn and not the player turn in the current edition, which is why null deployment is a thing. It's a shame that Dark Angels can no longer pull it off with their elite units, but they do still have Drop Pods right?

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can someone explain to me why if you take Venerable Dreadnought with the Deathwing Strike Force that you couldn't just drop them turn 1 and not auto-lose?

because the formation rule dictates that ALL units must start in Deep Strike Reserve so nothing will appear until Turn 2.

Obviously, just ally this formation with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force that drops on Turn 1.

Not the formation, the Strike Force. The strike force does not arrive as one.

no, but the earliest it can arrive is Turn 2, even Drop pod dreads.

why? Nothing in the Strike Force says anything about ignoring Drop Pod Assault, which would put half the pods in on turn one. What you are saying is only true of the formation.

Deathwing Strike Force

Summoned to War

All units in the detachment must start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. emphasis mine

doesn't matter if you have drop Pods, the rule indicates that all units must start in deep Strike Reserve. Not sure what makes you see that any differently.

Drop pods ALWAYS start in Deep Strike Reserve. This changes nothing. They still gain the effect of Drop Pod Assault and half come in turn one.

wow, never realized that Drop Pods actually had Deep Strike Reserve rule, just thought half had to go in reserve.

This sort of mitigates the rule somewhat, but not if you go first and all the dreads/pods are destroyed by opponent on Turn 1.Not that difficult to do, especially since you'll probably only have 1 or 2 dreads actually arrive.

 bullyboy wrote:
wow, never realized that Drop Pods actually had Deep Strike Reserve rule, just thought half had to go in reserve.

This sort of mitigates the rule somewhat, but not if you go first and all the dreads/pods are destroyed by opponent on Turn 1.Not that difficult to do, especially since you'll probably only have 1 or 2 dreads actually arrive.

Each Dread and pod makes for a separate target. Drop in your own deployment done and get some cover. Possibly disembark behind the pods to stay out of LOS.