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Okay, wondering about Hammer of Caliban now.
Can that Techmarine who's supposed to start shoved into the Land Raider have Servitors with him? And are they allowed to disembark ever or is he forced to stay on the LR forever?

CrashGordon94 wrote:
Okay, wondering about Hammer of Caliban now.
Can that Techmarine who's supposed to start shoved into the Land Raider have Servitors with him? And are they allowed to disembark ever or is he forced to stay on the LR forever?

the rule says just begin the game in the LR. As for Servitors, they are basically upgrades for the tech so yes he can add them. If you do disembark the tech, the LR will lose the BS5 though, it only confers while he's mounted.

I notice the Captain in Terminator armor is no longer available. Perhaps a future release incoming?

 bullyboy wrote:

CrashGordon94 wrote:
Okay, wondering about Hammer of Caliban now.
Can that Techmarine who's supposed to start shoved into the Land Raider have Servitors with him? And are they allowed to disembark ever or is he forced to stay on the LR forever?

the rule says just begin the game in the LR. As for Servitors, they are basically upgrades for the tech so yes he can add them. If you do disembark the tech, the LR will lose the BS5 though, it only confers while he's mounted.

If you have him get out and then back in, will it come back?

Nocturnus wrote:
I notice the Captain in Terminator armor is no longer available. Perhaps a future release incoming?

Good spot. Maybe that limited guy is becoming retail release?

I am still praying for a Terminator Character kit, like Chaos have.

 Commissar Merces wrote:


I'm just not convinced, with how much ignores cover there is, that ravenwing is going to have a prayer. Wyverns, Tau everything and daemon prince spam are still going to hurt DA bad.

Can you explain how Wyverns are going to hurt Ravenwing bikes?

S4 shred = 55% chance to wound against T5

They ignore cover? Okay, what does that do against a 3+ armor save? How is that an efficient way of clearing out Bike squads?

 TedNugent wrote:

 Commissar Merces wrote:


I'm just not convinced, with how much ignores cover there is, that ravenwing is going to have a prayer. Wyverns, Tau everything and daemon prince spam are still going to hurt DA bad.

Can you explain how Wyverns are going to hurt Ravenwing bikes?

S4 shred = 55% chance to wound against T5

They ignore cover? Okay, what does that do against a 3+ armor save? How is that an efficient way of clearing out Bike squads?

Because wyverns are extremely strong. Re-rolling to hit and to wound is so good.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Commissar Merces wrote:


I'm just not convinced, with how much ignores cover there is, that ravenwing is going to have a prayer. Wyverns, Tau everything and daemon prince spam are still going to hurt DA bad.

Can you explain how Wyverns are going to hurt Ravenwing bikes?

S4 shred = 55% chance to wound against T5

They ignore cover? Okay, what does that do against a 3+ armor save? How is that an efficient way of clearing out Bike squads?

I am goin to assume you have never seen a battery of wyverns firing before.......

When you can easily get 2 or 3 hits per blast and then have 4-12 shots....

Wyverns are nothing to scoff at. Absolutely brutal when there are 3 of them.

Take an allied (White Scar, perhaps) librarian conclave on bikes, get them all to roll on telepathy and fish for invisibility.

Wyvern-proof unit (most-likely 2 or 3 with the number of psykers fishing for it) right there.

The thing is, apart from tau, nothing there actually gets taken in any games i see.

We can all tailor lists to certain armies. It wont help in a competition

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
If Librarians get Ravenwing with a bike the Conclave formation becomes absurd. (Well, absurder than it already is...)

You can split four Librarians into four different squads to jink for a 2+ rerollable on allied units.

Why exactly do you think that would be absurd? The only conclusion I can draw is you're mistaken about how those rules all work completely.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Commissar Merces wrote:


I'm just not convinced, with how much ignores cover there is, that ravenwing is going to have a prayer. Wyverns, Tau everything and daemon prince spam are still going to hurt DA bad.

Can you explain how Wyverns are going to hurt Ravenwing bikes?

S4 shred = 55% chance to wound against T5

They ignore cover? Okay, what does that do against a 3+ armor save? How is that an efficient way of clearing out Bike squads?

3+ armor fails 1 out of 3 saves. a 3+ rerollable jink fails only 1 out of 9 saves, and if they buff that to a 2+ jink, 1 out of 36 failed saves.

 jokerkd wrote:
The thing is, apart from tau, nothing there actually gets taken in any games i see.

We can all tailor lists to certain armies. It wont help in a competition

Guard players take Wyverns all the time. They're one of the best units in the codex and one of its redeeming factors.

 Quintinus wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
The thing is, apart from tau, nothing there actually gets taken in any games i see.

We can all tailor lists to certain armies. It wont help in a competition

Guard players take Wyverns all the time. They're one of the best units in the codex and one of its redeeming factors.

I'll take your word for it.

I'm actually more interested in playing difficult armies to start with. I've lined up games against tau, Emperor's children and eldar so far to see how they go. Honestly didn't consider guard because every guard army I've played lately has been a pushover

I don't think the new book is op, but i have a much better chance now for sure

I'm thinking Dark Talons, Ravenwing Support Squadrons, and Black Knights are the real heroes of this book. Oh, and the return of Ironwing.

 jokerkd wrote:

 Quintinus wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
The thing is, apart from tau, nothing there actually gets taken in any games i see.

We can all tailor lists to certain armies. It wont help in a competition

Guard players take Wyverns all the time. They're one of the best units in the codex and one of its redeeming factors.

Honestly didn't consider guard because every guard army I've played lately has been a pushover

Considering that the codex is essentially the same as the 5th edition with a couple point costs rejigged (mostly against their favor) your experiences aren't surprising. Though I can certainly note that the DA player I played against wasn't exactly great either.

Praise the Lion!

Still any answer for AA that doesn't involve allies?

 Space Ghost wrote:
I'm thinking Dark Talons, Ravenwing Support Squadrons, and Black Knights are the real heroes of this book. Oh, and the return of Ironwing.

And just think, if they fix the HQ issue with RW, you can get more than just Sammael. Maybe an Interrogator-Chaplain or Librarian. The formations are the saving grace of the Ravenwing Strike Force, they just happen to be really good too.

I'm surprised that no one has commented on the nonsense that is the 50pt dw terminator with th/ss, return to massive over priced dw termies of 3rd

 Formosa wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has commented on the nonsense that is the 50pt dw terminator with th/ss, return to massive over priced dw termies of 3rd

Considering a basic DW terminator dropped in price, we're only paying 1pt more than we used to (50pts instead of 49) which isn't -that- bad.

It lines up with DW terminators being 5pts more than their SM counterparts, an Ultramarine terminator with TH/SS costs 45pts, a Deathwing terminator costs 50 because of...reasons? Easier access to no-scatter deep strike? Fearless? Hatred: CSM? Fancier hats?

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has commented on the nonsense that is the 50pt dw terminator with th/ss, return to massive over priced dw termies of 3rd

Considering a basic DW terminator dropped in price, we're only paying 1pt more than we used to (50pts instead of 49) which isn't -that- bad.

It lines up with DW terminators being 5pts more than their SM counterparts, an Ultramarine terminator with TH/SS costs 45pts, a Deathwing terminator costs 50 because of...reasons? Easier access to no-scatter deep strike? Fearless? Hatred: CSM? Fancier hats?

You are paying for Split Fire and the ability to make mixed squads. Being able to take two CMLs and have them fire at completely different from what you are assaulting is pretty cool. I would LOVE Split Fire on Terminators. I would actually take Tactical Terminators if they came with Split Fire (and would attach Pedro Kantor to them for added fun).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has commented on the nonsense that is the 50pt dw terminator with th/ss, return to massive over priced dw termies of 3rd

Considering a basic DW terminator dropped in price, we're only paying 1pt more than we used to (50pts instead of 49) which isn't -that- bad.

It lines up with DW terminators being 5pts more than their SM counterparts, an Ultramarine terminator with TH/SS costs 45pts, a Deathwing terminator costs 50 because of...reasons? Easier access to no-scatter deep strike? Fearless? Hatred: CSM? Fancier hats?

You are paying for Split Fire and the ability to make mixed squads. Being able to take two CMLs and have them fire at completely different from what you are assaulting is pretty cool. I would LOVE Split Fire on Terminators. I would actually take Tactical Terminators if they came with Split Fire (and would attach Pedro Kantor to them for added fun).

That's all perfectly valid, but I think you're underselling the importance of fancier hats

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has commented on the nonsense that is the 50pt dw terminator with th/ss, return to massive over priced dw termies of 3rd

Considering a basic DW terminator dropped in price, we're only paying 1pt more than we used to (50pts instead of 49) which isn't -that- bad.

It lines up with DW terminators being 5pts more than their SM counterparts, an Ultramarine terminator with TH/SS costs 45pts, a Deathwing terminator costs 50 because of...reasons? Easier access to no-scatter deep strike? Fearless? Hatred: CSM? Fancier hats?

You are paying for Split Fire and the ability to make mixed squads. Being able to take two CMLs and have them fire at completely different from what you are assaulting is pretty cool. I would LOVE Split Fire on Terminators. I would actually take Tactical Terminators if they came with Split Fire (and would attach Pedro Kantor to them for added fun).

That's all perfectly valid, but I think you're underselling the importance of fancier hats

A stampede of angry TF2 players closes in on the thread

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has commented on the nonsense that is the 50pt dw terminator with th/ss, return to massive over priced dw termies of 3rd

Considering a basic DW terminator dropped in price, we're only paying 1pt more than we used to (50pts instead of 49) which isn't -that- bad.

It lines up with DW terminators being 5pts more than their SM counterparts, an Ultramarine terminator with TH/SS costs 45pts, a Deathwing terminator costs 50 because of...reasons? Easier access to no-scatter deep strike? Fearless? Hatred: CSM? Fancier hats?

You are paying for Split Fire and the ability to make mixed squads. Being able to take two CMLs and have them fire at completely different from what you are assaulting is pretty cool. I would LOVE Split Fire on Terminators. I would actually take Tactical Terminators if they came with Split Fire (and would attach Pedro Kantor to them for added fun).

That's all perfectly valid, but I think you're underselling the importance of fancier hats

The Deathwing Command Squad lets you buy a bitchin' pimp cane with a sword at the end. The benefits of this should be obvious.

On topic of deathwing command squad.... Am I missing something, or is there literally no point in taking a standard deathwing squad in the deathwing detachment? Why would you not take a command squad? Especially when an apothecary is a 5 point upgrade only?

Whilst we're on that topic.... Why would you ever take the strike force over the detachment? The stirke force forces you to pick a turn they arrive. The detachment allows you to assess the battle and choose to pass or fail reserves..... To me the strike force seems pointless outside of adding deathwing to the lions blade.

You can only take a single Deathwing Apothecary in the army, and the Command squad maxes out at 5 dudes. It's pretty much lesser version of the Company Vets/Command Squad debacle, there's not much difference.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
On topic of deathwing command squad.... Am I missing something, or is there literally no point in taking a standard deathwing squad in the deathwing detachment? Why would you not take a command squad? Especially when an apothecary is a 5 point upgrade only?

Whilst we're on that topic.... Why would you ever take the strike force over the detachment? The stirke force forces you to pick a turn they arrive. The detachment allows you to assess the battle and choose to pass or fail reserves..... To me the strike force seems pointless outside of adding deathwing to the lions blade.

The command squad is a compromise of more options for less models. All the command squads are the same. Less models but much better options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, do you know what else ignores cover? Pure close combat daemon armies.....

Wait you can "choose" to fail reserves? And are there really a lot of reasons to do that? Seems like playing 110-400 pts down is not awesome

jakejackjake wrote:
Wait you can "choose" to fail reserves? And are there really a lot of reasons to do that? Seems like playing 110-400 pts down is not awesome

Where can you choose to fail reserves? Is that a formation bonus or something?

Choosing to fail reserves can be quite powerful. Maybe you have a weak squad in reserves (like flat Tactical Marines, Scouts, Cultists, etc) and you don't want it to come in til later - you just want them to get on objectives last turn. Maybe you have a counter unit that you want to wait to get on after the thing it counters - this comes up a lot in flyer v flyer matchups, where the second flyer on wins. Maybe you want a combo to happen - Teleport Homer unit comes down first, waits a turn, and then the unit that needs the Homer comes in the turn after.