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I have. My opponent disagreed. He did agree however that (for the same reason) that only Twin-linked allows re-rolls.

Of course this opponent and I disagree on a number of rules, such as how many dice you roll To Hit with certain Witchfire powers.

Pretty much every large discussion on dakka, he and I disagree on.

Other opponents have agreed that Preferred Enemy works with blasts, when shooting at their preferred enemy.

 Happyjew wrote:
extremefreak, disregarding blasts for the moment.

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Ork unit, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my To Hit dice?

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Eldar unit, do I have the ability to re-roll my To Hit dice?

1. Yes. No explanation needed.

2. If we use the logic presented here, then yes you do have the ABILITY to re-roll to hit dice. This is because no matter what you are shooting at, your profile still says "Prefered Enemy (Insert Anything Here)." It funtionally works just like BS 6. Can you reroll given the correct circumstance? Yes? Reroll granted. It follows the exact same logic path.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Re rolling a hit has nothing to do with the scatter dice.

Has anyone tried to do this in an actual game and if so what was your opponent's reaction ?

Do what in an actual game? Play that PE gives blasts rerolls? Of course I do, never had any complaints. If anyone does question it showing them Gets Hot generally clears it up quickly. Particularly when you point out it is like when Tau players up their Riptide to Bs6 to get a reroll on the blast.

Play PE (Orks) gives rerolls on blasts vs Space Marines then surely not. I imagine that would be a tough explanation.

Play prescience and guide give rertolls on blast? Then basically same as above for PE, do it all the time don't get questioned often on it.

I have asked a lot of people I game with including TOs and everyone said no.

Did any of you read the actual rules?

Lol. I can ask you the same .

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Lol. I can ask you the same .

Yes as pointed out I have read the relevant rules and pointed to identically worded rules that use rerolls 1 as an example trigger. What do you guys think qualify for rerolls on blasts?

 FlingitNow wrote:


The relevant part of gets hot is identical hence it is relevant. Did you bother to even read it?

I read it, re-read it, read it again, tried to wrap my mind around it, and failed. To be fair I was debating rules on the internet while hungover after a bachelor party and a 4 hour drive home, and now I've napped so I'm much better!

Everything deals with a separate d6 for blast weapons that is not a to-hit die, so Gets Hot is a completely different situation, but I'll address the part I'm assuming you're talking about. I'd say RAI is that when the re-roll rules transfer to the Gets Hot roll, as this says, the "1" counts as a failure to hit for the purposes of the transferred rule, even though it's not a to hit roll. So that is indeed the same as the blast weapon, except that RAW makes even less sense. So yes, I'd guess RAI for Gets Hot is that you can re-roll both Guide (same reasoning as before) and also PE, because in this case the die in question can indeed be a "1". Although with PE you get the problem of *this* hit not being against the actual preferred enemy... sooo who knows on that one. If PE said the enemy you're targeting, that'd be one thing. But it says the enemy you're attacking, so that's muddying the waters again. I'd probably allow it, personally... but allowing PE on this roll of "1" doesn't mean I'd allow PE on the scatter dice, that are incapable of rolling a "1."

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
extremefreak, disregarding blasts for the moment.

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Ork unit, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my To Hit dice?

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Eldar unit, do I have the ability to re-roll my To Hit dice?

1. Yes. No explanation needed.

2. If we use the logic presented here, then yes you do have the ABILITY to re-roll to hit dice. This is because no matter what you are shooting at, your profile still says "Prefered Enemy (Insert Anything Here)." It funtionally works just like BS 6. Can you reroll given the correct circumstance? Yes? Reroll granted. It follows the exact same logic path.

1- no. If you roll a non hit that is not a one you do not have a re-roll. If you roll a hit, you also do not have a re-roll. You only have a re-roll granted when you roll a hit roll of 1. If you are using a weapon that does not have a hit roll, you cannot make this roll. I find it amusing how many people in this thread are "I ONLY ARGUE THE RAW IN POSTS" yet waffle when it comes to this because it affects an army they play[this is not a reference to anyone I am quoting above]. How many rerolls does a model have when it fires its assault 4 weapon with bs 4 and rolls 4 2's? the same as a blast weapon with preferred enemy that did not roll a 1. Ie 0 rerolls.

It's misleading for sure.

blaktoof wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
extremefreak, disregarding blasts for the moment.

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Ork unit, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my To Hit dice?

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Eldar unit, do I have the ability to re-roll my To Hit dice?

1. Yes. No explanation needed.

2. If we use the logic presented here, then yes you do have the ABILITY to re-roll to hit dice. This is because no matter what you are shooting at, your profile still says "Prefered Enemy (Insert Anything Here)." It funtionally works just like BS 6. Can you reroll given the correct circumstance? Yes? Reroll granted. It follows the exact same logic path.

1- no. If you roll a non hit that is not a one you do not have a re-roll. If you roll a hit, you also do not have a re-roll. You only have a re-roll granted when you roll a hit roll of 1. If you are using a weapon that does not have a hit roll, you cannot make this roll. I find it amusing how many people in this thread are "I ONLY ARGUE THE RAW IN POSTS" yet waffle when it comes to this because it affects an army they play[this is not a reference to anyone I am quoting above]. How many rerolls does a model have when it fires its assault 4 weapon with bs 4 and rolls 4 2's? the same as a blast weapon with preferred enemy that did not roll a 1. Ie 0 rerolls.

So Preferred Enemy does not allow any sort of re-roll on a To Hit roll? Interesting argument.

 Happyjew wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
extremefreak, disregarding blasts for the moment.

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Ork unit, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my To Hit dice?

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Eldar unit, do I have the ability to re-roll my To Hit dice?

1. Yes. No explanation needed.

2. If we use the logic presented here, then yes you do have the ABILITY to re-roll to hit dice. This is because no matter what you are shooting at, your profile still says "Prefered Enemy (Insert Anything Here)." It funtionally works just like BS 6. Can you reroll given the correct circumstance? Yes? Reroll granted. It follows the exact same logic path.

1- no. If you roll a non hit that is not a one you do not have a re-roll. If you roll a hit, you also do not have a re-roll. You only have a re-roll granted when you roll a hit roll of 1. If you are using a weapon that does not have a hit roll, you cannot make this roll. I find it amusing how many people in this thread are "I ONLY ARGUE THE RAW IN POSTS" yet waffle when it comes to this because it affects an army they play[this is not a reference to anyone I am quoting above]. How many rerolls does a model have when it fires its assault 4 weapon with bs 4 and rolls 4 2's? the same as a blast weapon with preferred enemy that did not roll a 1. Ie 0 rerolls.

So Preferred Enemy does not allow any sort of re-roll on a To Hit roll? Interesting argument.

so if you roll a 2 to hit with preferred enemy you feel that you have the ability to re-roll? If you have the ability to re-roll why can't you re-roll the die?

I have a model, models have the ability to have abilities, and one of these abilities has the ability to re-roll if i roll a certain dice, therefore all models have the ability to re-roll using fail logic

or you have the ability to reroll if you are actually allowed to reroll the die. IF you are not allowed to reroll the die, you do not have the ability to reroll.

blaktoof wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
extremefreak, disregarding blasts for the moment.

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Ork unit, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my To Hit dice?

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Eldar unit, do I have the ability to re-roll my To Hit dice?

1. Yes. No explanation needed.

2. If we use the logic presented here, then yes you do have the ABILITY to re-roll to hit dice. This is because no matter what you are shooting at, your profile still says "Prefered Enemy (Insert Anything Here)." It funtionally works just like BS 6. Can you reroll given the correct circumstance? Yes? Reroll granted. It follows the exact same logic path.

1- no. If you roll a non hit that is not a one you do not have a re-roll. If you roll a hit, you also do not have a re-roll. You only have a re-roll granted when you roll a hit roll of 1. If you are using a weapon that does not have a hit roll, you cannot make this roll. I find it amusing how many people in this thread are "I ONLY ARGUE THE RAW IN POSTS" yet waffle when it comes to this because it affects an army they play[this is not a reference to anyone I am quoting above]. How many rerolls does a model have when it fires its assault 4 weapon with bs 4 and rolls 4 2's? the same as a blast weapon with preferred enemy that did not roll a 1. Ie 0 rerolls.

So you're on the side that Guide and Prescience don't give you rerolls on blasts is that correct?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deathypoo wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:


The relevant part of gets hot is identical hence it is relevant. Did you bother to even read it?

I read it, re-read it, read it again, tried to wrap my mind around it, and failed. To be fair I was debating rules on the internet while hungover after a bachelor party and a 4 hour drive home, and now I've napped so I'm much better!

Everything deals with a separate d6 for blast weapons that is not a to-hit die, so Gets Hot is a completely different situation, but I'll address the part I'm assuming you're talking about. I'd say RAI is that when the re-roll rules transfer to the Gets Hot roll, as this says, the "1" counts as a failure to hit for the purposes of the transferred rule, even though it's not a to hit roll. So that is indeed the same as the blast weapon, except that RAW makes even less sense. So yes, I'd guess RAI for Gets Hot is that you can re-roll both Guide (same reasoning as before) and also PE, because in this case the die in question can indeed be a "1". Although with PE you get the problem of *this* hit not being against the actual preferred enemy... sooo who knows on that one. If PE said the enemy you're targeting, that'd be one thing. But it says the enemy you're attacking, so that's muddying the waters again. I'd probably allow it, personally... but allowing PE on this roll of "1" doesn't mean I'd allow PE on the scatter dice, that are incapable of rolling a "1."

So you agree PE triggers the clause "if you have the ability to reroll your to hit rolls" for Gets Hot (which is explicit in those rules). Why would it not trigger that exact clause everywhere else the clause occurs?

... because Gets Hot is the only place where the explicit admission is made; nowhere else has the exact same clause. It triggers on Gets Hot because Gets Hot explicitly says so (as an exception to the normal rules), not because the Gets Hot wording is redundant.

Its pretty obvious that the inclusion of re-roll 1's on Gets Hot Blasts mirrors re-rolls that the firing unit WOULD get on 1's if they were firing normal weapons at a preferred enemy.

Trasvi wrote:
... because Gets Hot is the only place where the explicit admission is made; nowhere else has the exact same clause. It triggers on Gets Hot because Gets Hot explicitly says so (as an exception to the normal rules), not because the Gets Hot wording is redundant.

Its pretty obvious that the inclusion of re-roll 1's on Gets Hot Blasts mirrors re-rolls that the firing unit WOULD get on 1's if they were firing normal weapons at a preferred enemy.

It is not an exception though but an example. So either Gets Hot is wrong or PE works for blasts. Now which is it?

It is an exception, not an example. Can you prove otherwise?

If it were an exception, then your argument should work just as well if you completely ignore the Gets Hot section (because the wording is redundant in your view). Can you do that?

Trasvi wrote:
It is an exception, not an example. Can you prove otherwise?

If it were an exception, then your argument should work just as well if you completely ignore the Gets Hot section (because the wording is redundant in your view). Can you do that?

We can ignore the Gets Hot section the RaW has been clearly laid out in this thread. However some disagreed it was the intent hence an example for an identical clause illustrates this is not only clear RaW but also clear RaI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I find myself questioning if you've read Gets Hot as there is absolutely no doubt in the wording that it is an example rather than an exception. Do you have any evidence that it is merely an exception? I'm genuinely interested in how you could interpret the sentence in that manner.

blaktoof wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
extremefreak, disregarding blasts for the moment.

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Ork unit, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my To Hit dice?

If I have preferred enemy (orks) and I shoot at an Eldar unit, do I have the ability to re-roll my To Hit dice?

1. Yes. No explanation needed.

2. If we use the logic presented here, then yes you do have the ABILITY to re-roll to hit dice. This is because no matter what you are shooting at, your profile still says "Prefered Enemy (Insert Anything Here)." It funtionally works just like BS 6. Can you reroll given the correct circumstance? Yes? Reroll granted. It follows the exact same logic path.

1- no. If you roll a non hit that is not a one you do not have a re-roll. If you roll a hit, you also do not have a re-roll. You only have a re-roll granted when you roll a hit roll of 1. If you are using a weapon that does not have a hit roll, you cannot make this roll. I find it amusing how many people in this thread are "I ONLY ARGUE THE RAW IN POSTS" yet waffle when it comes to this because it affects an army they play[this is not a reference to anyone I am quoting above]. How many rerolls does a model have when it fires its assault 4 weapon with bs 4 and rolls 4 2's? the same as a blast weapon with preferred enemy that did not roll a 1. Ie 0 rerolls.

So Preferred Enemy does not allow any sort of re-roll on a To Hit roll? Interesting argument.

so if you roll a 2 to hit with preferred enemy you feel that you have the ability to re-roll? If you have the ability to re-roll why can't you re-roll the die?

I have a model, models have the ability to have abilities, and one of these abilities has the ability to re-roll if i roll a certain dice, therefore all models have the ability to re-roll using fail logic

or you have the ability to reroll if you are actually allowed to reroll the die. IF you are not allowed to reroll the die, you do not have the ability to reroll.

No. But then again I've never said that if you roll a 2 To Hit you can reroll. I have said that since Preferred Enemy gives you the ability to re-roll To Hit, when shooting your preferred enemy, then you have permission to re-roll scatter. You, however, appear to be claiming that a BS1 model that rolls 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 for its To Hit, can't re-roll any of the dice, contrary to what Preferred Enemy says.

 Happyjew wrote:

No. But then again I've never said that if you roll a 2 To Hit you can reroll. I have said that since Preferred Enemy gives you the ability to re-roll To Hit, when shooting your preferred enemy, then you have permission to re-roll scatter. You, however, appear to be claiming that a BS1 model that rolls 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 for its To Hit, can't re-roll any of the dice, contrary to what Preferred Enemy says.

Happyjew, you must know that Blacktoof is NOT saying BS1 can't re-roll a 1 to hit. Willfully misinterpreting someone and deliberately obfuscating the issue is definitely a sign that your side of the debate is weak.

Deathypoo wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

No. But then again I've never said that if you roll a 2 To Hit you can reroll. I have said that since Preferred Enemy gives you the ability to re-roll To Hit, when shooting your preferred enemy, then you have permission to re-roll scatter. You, however, appear to be claiming that a BS1 model that rolls 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 for its To Hit, can't re-roll any of the dice, contrary to what Preferred Enemy says.

Happyjew, you must know that Blacktoof is NOT saying BS1 can't re-roll a 1 to hit. Willfully misinterpreting someone and deliberately obfuscating the issue is definitely a sign that your side of the debate is weak.

Except he has. When I asked, if when shooting at a Preferred Enemy, do I have the ability to re-roll any of my dice. He said no. If I can re-roll 1s then the answer to my question must be yes. I didn't ask if I could re-roll all of my dice, just any.

Did the Rules change in any way since the last "Blast weapons and Re-Rolls" debate?

I don't think so, unless someone has a specific quote.... I recommend mod lock as the argument has not changed.

A) Having the ability "as a constant" as long as you have re-rolls (of any kind)
B) Having the ability once the dice roll is ascertained (did you roll a "1" ?)

Repeat Ad Infinitum.

Gotta love this one

Please lock.

ConanMan wrote:
this makes no sense, why list Vauls support as benefiting from preferred enemy when 2/3rds of those units cannot benefit from it in shooting and 1/3rd of it cannot benefit from wounding... seems that they intend some sort of "to hit" and "to damage" bonus to Vauls.

Or to put it another way only Vibro Canons really get preferred enemy

they all get PE and they can all use it when they are assaulted.

Seriously even the white dwarf battle reports allow rerolls of blasts with preferred enemy as does most tournaments I have no idea why you guys are allowing yourself to be trolled in this debate.

As for faction based preferred enemy the usr actually says you only have the ability to reroll against that faction. Without that faction you have no ability to reroll.

gungo wrote:
Seriously even the white dwarf battle reports allow rerolls of blasts with preferred enemy as does most tournaments I have no idea why you guys are allowing yourself to be trolled in this debate.

As for faction based preferred enemy the usr actually says you only have the ability to reroll against that faction. Without that faction you have no ability to reroll.

And in published codices they've said it doesn't work. So you can either take the word of the White Dwarf staff or the word of the people writing the rules. I know which one I'd go for.

Specifically, I'm referring to the entry on the Hemlock Wraithfighter in the Iyanden Supplement. "Just remember that, as the Hemlock gains no benefit from Spirit Mark (it doesn't roll to hit in a conventional manner) ..."

Spirit Mark (from the codex the supplement was written for, and referenced in the Lord of the Sorrowful Dead Iyanden Warlord trait): "All Wraithguards, ..., and Hemlock Wraithfighters can re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 against spirit-marked units."

Is the Hemlock's weapon a blast, though?
I'm honestly just asking as I don't know.

Chrysis wrote:

gungo wrote:
Seriously even the white dwarf battle reports allow rerolls of blasts with preferred enemy as does most tournaments I have no idea why you guys are allowing yourself to be trolled in this debate.

As for faction based preferred enemy the usr actually says you only have the ability to reroll against that faction. Without that faction you have no ability to reroll.

And in published codices they've said it doesn't work. So you can either take the word of the White Dwarf staff or the word of the people writing the rules. I know which one I'd go for.

Specifically, I'm referring to the entry on the Hemlock Wraithfighter in the Iyanden Supplement. "Just remember that, as the Hemlock gains no benefit from Spirit Mark (it doesn't roll to hit in a conventional manner) ..."

Spirit Mark (from the codex the supplement was written for, and referenced in the Lord of the Sorrowful Dead Iyanden Warlord trait): "All Wraithguards, ..., and Hemlock Wraithfighters can re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 against spirit-marked units."

For one the illyden supplement is no longer legal it was written for 6th edition according to the people who write the rules.
Secondly your first quote is out of context.
And thirdly to prove how out of context it truly is the current rules for spirit mark specifically states it allows "wraith units, including the hemlock wraithfighter to reroll to hit rolls of 1"...... The hemlock only has small blasts

Current rules trumps old rules from a non legal supplement.

gungo wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

gungo wrote:
Seriously even the white dwarf battle reports allow rerolls of blasts with preferred enemy as does most tournaments I have no idea why you guys are allowing yourself to be trolled in this debate.

As for faction based preferred enemy the usr actually says you only have the ability to reroll against that faction. Without that faction you have no ability to reroll.

And in published codices they've said it doesn't work. So you can either take the word of the White Dwarf staff or the word of the people writing the rules. I know which one I'd go for.

Specifically, I'm referring to the entry on the Hemlock Wraithfighter in the Iyanden Supplement. "Just remember that, as the Hemlock gains no benefit from Spirit Mark (it doesn't roll to hit in a conventional manner) ..."

Spirit Mark (from the codex the supplement was written for, and referenced in the Lord of the Sorrowful Dead Iyanden Warlord trait): "All Wraithguards, ..., and Hemlock Wraithfighters can re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 against spirit-marked units."

For one the illyden supplement is no longer legal it was written for 6th edition according to the people who write the rules.
Secondly your first quote is out of context.
And thirdly to prove how out of context it truly is the current rules for spirit mark specifically states it allows "wraith units, including the hemlock wraithfighter to reroll to hit rolls of 1"...... The hemlock only has small blasts

Current rules trumps old rules from a non legal supplement.

Where is it stated that the Iyanden Supplement is no longer legal, rather than in a rather problematic place because what it supplements has been obsoleted?

Which quote are you referring to as my "first"? My quote of you, or my quote from the Iyanden supplement? The section is from the supplement writers advice on how to use the various wraith units, and includes the quoted "reminder" about how the rules work.

The fact that they specifically call out the Wrathfighter as subject to Spirit Mark in the new codex is completely irrelevant, as they specifically called it out in the old codex as well. The one with the supplement that says it doesn't actually do anything. Which isn't unusual, because GW often give units rules they can't use for the sake of consistency. Jetbikes with Battlefocus, Old One Eye with Living Battering Ram, etc

For one the illyden supplement is no longer legal it was written for 6th edition according to the people who write the rules. 
Secondly your first quote is out of context. 
And thirdly to prove how out of context it truly is the current rules for spirit mark specifically states it allows "wraith units, including the hemlock wraithfighter to reroll to hit rolls of 1"...... The hemlock only has small blasts 

Current rules trumps old rules from a non legal supplement.

Yeah I was on the other side of the argument in 6th due partly to that rule. When 7th came out and the Gets Hot rule specifically called out reroll 1s abilities as rules that trigger an identical clause I changed my position... The Craftworld codex further highlights this is how it works now in 7th.