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An airbrush amongst a group of gamers can banish unpainted models in no time.
It lets you hose down an army quickly, and the details and flesh can be done afterwards.

The modelling part is the bit that slows me down. I am obsessive about mold-lines. And I magnetise everything.
So, painting comes along way down the list of things to get a model to the table.

Regarding the topic. I blame Wh40k Dawn of War. It introduced lots of people who aren't passionate about modelling to the hobby.

I can understand why some people are upset about unpainted armies. They kinda kill the whole point of miniature wargaming. Without interesting looking models, they could as well be played with counters or something like that.

I recently inherited a 1500ish point Vostroyan army from a friend. He had attempted to paint them batch-style, so I got fifty guys painted red, washed, and with painted hats. Also five red tanks of various styles and around ten HWTs.

Over the course of Memorial Day I painted around four and a half hours, and got all five tanks and twenty infantrymen done with base coat, ink and highlight.

I don't understand people who "can't find time" to paint.

the_scotsman wrote:
I recently inherited a 1500ish point Vostroyan army from a friend. He had attempted to paint them batch-style, so I got fifty guys painted red, washed, and with painted hats. Also five red tanks of various styles and around ten HWTs.

Over the course of Memorial Day I painted around four and a half hours, and got all five tanks and twenty infantrymen done with base coat, ink and highlight.

I don't understand people who "can't find time" to paint.

I think it's more about prioritizing certain things. For example, I get off of work at 6. Essentially I have 4-5 hours before I need to think about getting ready for bed. In that span I need to cook and eat dinner, clean up my place a little, browse the internet a bit, play witcher 3. That doesn't leave much time to paint. So it's all about juggling available time to different activities. I used to try to at least paint one model a day, that helped a lot. But after painting Imperial Guard and Tyranids I'm a little burned out on painting troops in batches so I've been focusing on just characters and HQ units.

There is only a hierarchy if the people you see as below you care what you think. Personally, I wont play with snobs who thumb their nose at other players for any reason. People who show up to have fun with good sportsmanship at the top of my pyramid.

Lance845 wrote:

There is only a hierarchy if the people you see as below you care what you think. Personally, I wont play with snobs who thumb their nose at other players for any reason. People who show up to have fun with good sportsmanship at the top of my pyramid.

I showed up to a neighbourhood bbq completely naked, those snobs kicked me out. Geez, they're so elitist with their basic expectation of clothing. Snobs, the lot of'm.

Wasn't there just recently another thread about painted minis? The elitism is strong with this one...

Like I said in the previous thread, I have no problem with unpainted minis. 40k is a major time commitment, and new players or people who are simply busy often don't have the time to get an army fully painted. The new pace of releases from GW isn't helping any either.

I will gladly play against minis in any state of pain coverage, but I prefer to play against fully painted armies.

So, if you have so little time that you literally can't paint your army how exactly is it that you have time to play with your unpainted models?

Lance845 wrote:
There is only a hierarchy if the people you see as below you care what you think. Personally, I wont play with snobs who thumb their nose at other players for any reason. People who show up to have fun with good sportsmanship at the top of my pyramid.

To be honest, I don't understand what's the point of buying all these expensive miniatures if one isn't going to paint them to high standard. I think that the aesthetic aspect is very important in miniature wargaming. If not, why not skip the whole "spend a lot of money on miniatures" part and play with counters?

I don't think it's anything wrong to be snobbish in an expensive hobby. It's not like your ability to make living or anything important like that depends on Wh40k players not being snobbish on tabletop.

MarsNZ wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
If ya got time to play, you got time to paint. I won't play against unpainted models.

Yeah, a 2-3 hour game totally compares to painting 1500+ points of mini's, especially things like Imperial Guard, Orks, etc. Good comparison.

I'm really appreciative of people who are up front with their decision to not play my army, because it always improves my gaming experience when I don't have to play them.

I only have so much free time to get games in, why waste it playing against someone who doesn't paint?

I only have so much time to spend on my luxury hobbies, why waste it playing against someone who I'm clearly not going to enjoy the time with?

Which also begs the question, why should I use my very limited time on painting when I have the chance to actually get in a game with people I do enjoy spending time with?

It's very simple. Some people are into the modeling and painting side of things, which is great! I want to play games with my friends, so that's where the time gets spent in my hobby.

As I said, entirely seriously, if someone isn't go to play unpainted armies and speaks up about it, that's fine. Because I don't want to play someone like that as much as they don't want to play me.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I only have so much time to spend on my luxury hobbies, why waste it playing against someone who I'm clearly not going to enjoy the time with?

Which also begs the question, why should I use my very limited time on painting when I have the chance to actually get in a game with people I do enjoy spending time with?

It's very simple. Some people are into the modeling and painting side of things, which is great! I want to play games with my friends, so that's where the time gets spent in my hobby.

If you're not in it for modelling then why not ditch miniatures altogether?

Priorites, Gaming is awesome, models are great (and kind of needed) and painting kinda nice. And there is also terrain to work on which is pretty cool (as in: more so than painted minis).

I don't think anybody play unpainted minis as a choice, it's just that painting them can be at the very bottom of a long list of things to do.

I think a lot of people are scared of painting miniatures, they want the miniatures to be like the box set image in their choice of scheme, then when they try their hand on painting... It looks like doo doo.

painting takes time and practice just like anything else. Gaming with painted miniatures and terrain brings the game to tenfold of enjoyment. If you're not into painting, then look into painting services with your disposable income instead of gathering more grey plastic crack.

Miniature protection should also be a priority for those that have painted miniatures, I have seen some quality painting get dinged due to putting them in a box.

Im one of those who plays with half finished armies. I find painting difficult. Id love to find time to do it. My flgs didnt teach newbies how to paint so ive basicaly taught my self. And now i know how i want to do it justice. So trying to find 5 hours or so to paint (im slow at it) whislt juggling school work and other hobbies is hard.

I think it dosnt help new players how much the standerd of painting has gone up used to be you could get away with only five paints and one brush. So it becomes i thing of you being to scared of ruining your nice new models.

Eh Another painted vs not painted thread.. already?

The only reason id ever refuse to play a player is if they are known cheaters or people that have personally wronged me.

That said. I will still poke fun at the grey legion if its in the same state for many games in the same way i judge my own army being in the same state of transition from old to new paint.
But damnit im still trying

But i do think of a grey legion player less than one with even a basic painted army.

I love painting. That said, I don't always feel like doing it. It's a hobby, right? Something that you do in your spare time to have a fun and enjoyable time, right? I don't want that to turn into a job. So I paint whenever I feel like it. I will put grey models on the table and I shouldn't feel ashamed of that and nobody really should. It might seem wrong to some people, but many people are here to game( I don't play 40K anymore ,but my point still stands). I am one of those people and although gaming is more important to me, I also like the hobby aspect. That's why I am not limiting myself to hex and counter wargames and boardgames. Nobody has the rights to tell me that I am not a true hobbyist and I am doing things wrong. It's my spare time. Sorry to say it , but it sounds a bit snobbish indeed. I usually paint 2-3 models per week, but sometimes I don't feel like painting for months. Sorry,but that won't stop me from playing the games I love just to please someone.

It seems to me that more and more we're splitting into two hobbies. One group of folks have chosen to take a large part of the hobby (painting) and make it optional or even -in many cases- irrelevant. That's their decision, but at a certain point we're not even participating in the same hobby.

There's "wargaming" in which miniatures exist, but without any community expectation that they will necessarily be painted, the game could just as easily be played with chits or printed cardboard stand-ups. Indeed many folks openly declare that they feel no desire to paint their miniatures.

On the other hand there's "miniature wargaming". A hobby in which the visual element of the game is central to the hobby. Painted miniatures are an expected and vital part and the hobby could not exist without them.

I know which hobby I want to be apart of.

 Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I only have so much time to spend on my luxury hobbies, why waste it playing against someone who I'm clearly not going to enjoy the time with?

Which also begs the question, why should I use my very limited time on painting when I have the chance to actually get in a game with people I do enjoy spending time with?

It's very simple. Some people are into the modeling and painting side of things, which is great! I want to play games with my friends, so that's where the time gets spent in my hobby.

If you're not in it for modelling then why not ditch miniatures altogether?

Maybe because he enjoys the game?

I have to be honest, I've just started a new army, I am a competent painter and when I put my mind to it I am very quick aswell...

However I have to admit that starting a new army from scratch and once you have it all built up it does seem like abit of a task, and I enjoy painting, so I can imagine what its like for people who aren't as keen.

Tbh im just glad I can get a PUG and play with my new army, safe in the thought that soon it will be painted.

What im getting at is most people probably have all the will to one day field a painted army, but that's hobby time that could be spent playing, not painting.

 Eilif wrote:
It seems to me that more and more we're splitting into two hobbies. One group of folks have chosen to take a large part of the hobby (painting) and make it optional or even -in many cases- irrelevant. That's their decision, but at a certain point we're not even participating in the same hobby.

There's "wargaming" in which miniatures exist, but without any community expectation that they will necessarily be painted, the game could just as easily be played with chits or printed cardboard stand-ups. Indeed many folks openly declare that they feel no desire to paint their miniatures.

On the other hand there's "miniature wargaming". A hobby in which the visual element of the game is central to the hobby. Painted miniatures are an expected and vital part and the hobby could not exist without them.

I know which hobby I want to be apart of.

Have you considered that there is a middle ground? Like I said, I enjoy the hobby aspect and that's why I am playing miniature wargames. Yes, it is secondary to playing, but it is a nice bonus, additional content if you will. Yes, it enchances the game. That's why I am slowly painting my Malifaux collection and I feel great satisfaction when I put a newly painted model on the table. But that doesn't stop me from playing my bare metal Infinity army, which next on my to-paint list. I am not lazy, it's just that I like playing and I am only a human with limited time on his hands.

MarsNZ wrote:
Maybe because he enjoys the game?

Then why play 40k? The game sucks, it's just something you put up with to use your nicely painted miniatures. If you're happy to play with cardboard tokens instead of real models then why not play one of the vastly superior games that are available?

 Peregrine wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Maybe because he enjoys the game?

Then why play 40k? The game sucks, it's just something you put up with to use your nicely painted miniatures. If you're happy to play with cardboard tokens instead of real models then why not play one of the vastly superior games that are available?

Of course that is your opinion peregrine. In MY opinion the game is fun to play, and although I like painted models, I am not what you would call an elitist painter as many in this thread seem to be.

You don't have a right to tell people that they are wrong/ lazy/ 'not a real 40k player' for playing with unpainted models. You do have the right to not play them and vice versa. Presenting highly charged opinions as facts doesn't make your stance any more true then before so stop doing it.

I still have a lot of models to paint, but I refuse to field a unit if they aren't painted. I wouldn't refuse to play against an unpainted army, but feel it does take some of the atmosphere away from the game.

 Peregrine wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Maybe because he enjoys the game?

Then why play 40k? The game sucks, it's just something you put up with to use your nicely painted miniatures. If you're happy to play with cardboard tokens instead of real models then why not play one of the vastly superior games that are available?

Yeah, anyone who's been on this forum for at least 5 minutes knows your opinion on pretty much any topic. We like 40k, we don't obsess over painting models preferring to go at our own pace. We don't really care what your opinion on our hobby is.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
In MY opinion the game is fun to play

How many other wargames have you played?

You don't have a right to tell people that they are wrong/ lazy/ 'not a real 40k player' for playing with unpainted models.

Of course I do, and I will.

MarsNZ wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Maybe because he enjoys the game?

Then why play 40k? The game sucks, it's just something you put up with to use your nicely painted miniatures. If you're happy to play with cardboard tokens instead of real models then why not play one of the vastly superior games that are available?

Yeah, anyone who's been on this forum for at least 5 minutes knows your opinion on pretty much any topic. We like 40k, we don't obsess over painting models preferring to go at our own pace. We don't really care what your opinion on our hobby is.

Pretty much.

I see unpainted models for every game except X wing, ultimately it's someone else's stuff so who cares? If you do care, then feel free to decline and carry on. Probably for the best anyway, who wants to play with a snob?

In saying that painted armies are of course better to play with, every one agrees on that. But there is no reason to be upset that someone didn't spend their time on their stuff.

 Swastakowey wrote:
In saying that painted armies are of course better to play with, every one agrees on that. But there is no reason to be upset that someone didn't spend their time on their stuff.

You don't see the contradiction here? If painted armies are clearly better to play with then not painting your army is saying "I don't care enough about your enjoyment of the game to paint my models". And I'd say that's a pretty good reason to criticize someone.

At my LGS there's been a very slight uptick in gray legions simply due to the current release schedule GW's been on. Harlequins, Eldar, new Knights, Skitarii, Ad Mech. Book releases and fresh models have been dropping fast and furious, so fast that not everyone's had a chance to keep up with painting.