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Not exactly. Fluff-wise, the standard lasgun/autogun isn't penetrating PA regularly at all, and only when you have a lot of people (as in, an entire Company) focusing on one guy who isn't bothering to use cover... and we have no real idea what caliber the autoguns of M40 use, or even what the rounds are made of (perhaps tungsten-nylon penetrators are standard? DPU? Who knows?), and from that extrapolating a lasgun's equivalent stopping power is likewise difficult.

The standard light rounds issued to most modern military armies may be all but entirely ineffective against power armor. We're really not provided enough concrete evidence in the fluff to say for certain.

Who are you talking too?

 Psienesis wrote:

Can flak armour stop a bullet?

Yes. That's what it's designed to do. You do know that flak armor is a real thing, right?

I generally assume it to be low quality cheap rubbish compared to real-world body armour...but there's also probably lore that says the opposite. Even the Lexicanum article on flak armour isn't clear, saying that it is meant to absorb the majority of impact from a shot before saying it stands up poorly to a direct hit.

Nuclear weapons don't do much against Void Shields. Or the point-defense lasers of the various voidcruisers.

And, yes, we could win a very Pyrrhic victory (maybe) by nuking large swaths of the planet into oblivion... but since the opposing force came from "somewhere else", then that's a net loss for us, since the invading army can just go back to wherever they came from, and we can't.

It's also erroneous to believe that the Imperium does not adapt to new enemies, tactics and the like. They most certainly do. This is why, for example, there's Preferred Enemy traits, Tyrannic War Veterans, and so on and so forth, to represent such adaptation... in addition to the many varieties of, say, IG Regiments that specialize in one or another type of warfare. These "canon Regiments" are stand-ins for thousands of other Regiments across the Imperium with similar styles.

 Fezman wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Can flak armour stop a bullet?

Yes. That's what it's designed to do. You do know that flak armor is a real thing, right?

I generally assume it to be low quality cheap rubbish compared to real-world body armour...but there's also probably lore that says the opposite. Even the Lexicanum article on flak armour isn't clear, saying that it is meant to absorb the majority of impact from a shot before saying it stands up poorly to a direct hit.

Please note that the lowly flak armor can withstand a heavy machine gun (heavy stubber) round. This is a feat most IRL military vehicles lack completely. Pound-to-pound, the IG flak armor should provide roughly the same level of protection as the armor on the Stryker APC.


Anyway, I would vote Tau. They are not humans, so the USA/Russia/China/EU wouldn't join them as soon as they touch ground (a possibility everyone in this thread has forgotten), and their army and tech is pretty 'meh' - it is better, but not beyond IRL comprehension. We could just reverse-engineer their stuff and get a win through numbers and the home turf advantage.

 Psienesis wrote:
Nuclear weapons don't do much against Void Shields. Or the point-defense lasers of the various voidcruisers.

And, yes, we could win a very Pyrrhic victory (maybe) by nuking large swaths of the planet into oblivion... but since the opposing force came from "somewhere else", then that's a net loss for us, since the invading army can just go back to wherever they came from, and we can't.

It's also erroneous to believe that the Imperium does not adapt to new enemies, tactics and the like. They most certainly do. This is why, for example, there's Preferred Enemy traits, Tyrannic War Veterans, and so on and so forth, to represent such adaptation... in addition to the many varieties of, say, IG Regiments that specialize in one or another type of warfare. These "canon Regiments" are stand-ins for thousands of other Regiments across the Imperium with similar styles.

... who are you talking too?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Modern military would wipe it's ass with Sisters of Battle in a ground war.

For that matter, we'd likely do the same to a Marine chapter.

you're assuming our weapons could penatrate marine armor.

bad assumption to make

Fluff says otherwise. Bolter rounds are only .75 caliber; what do you think an anti-tank hellfire missile fired from a drone would to a marine?

What drone?
Drones are only viable when you have complete air superiority and the enemy has no AA, otherwise they get shot down quickly.
A anti-tank missile could kill a Marine if it scores a direct hit. But we would run out of missiles and launch platforms long before we could even eliminate a single company. Marines don't just go stand in the open waiting for enemy airstrikes, they drop pod right into the enemy airbase and take it out.
Earth would be chanceless against Space Marines. In the fluff, we have small SM forces conquering worlds with tech that is far ahead of our current technology level. Modern Earth is rather primitive on a 40k scale.

Thing is you are thinking of this in ground war terms only. As long as spacecraft aren't in the equation, the United States alone has enough superior aircraft from the 70s that'd wipe the floor with anything the Imperium by itself can offer.

For example to translate into 40K a old fighter like say the F-14 Tomcat, you are looking at a 11/11/10 flyer, with up to 10 S8 Sparrow missiles able to fire up to 6 at 6 different targets while MOVING FLAT OUT. And BS in the 4-5 range just to be fair.

These are strict tactical considerations that may be true, but once again, at the operational & strategic stages, the Imperium would crush us. I think we should all stop saying “that IRL weapon system is better than its 40k counterpart then, we win the war”. War is not a rock/papers/scissors, and if the Imperium would have been beaten each time it would have encounter a more advanced independent human/xenos civilisation, it would have never span all over the Galaxy. I’m sure imperial archives are full of records telling how brave were defenders of planet X with their fancy technological stuff that take ages to be produce for a full scale war.

I like to think modern Earth could deal with any power-armoured army. I don't really agree with the idea that a squad, or even a company, of Marines can conquer a planet. Planets are big, and ours has lots of ways to destroy things. I see Marines more as shock troops. Even if each Marine is a walking tank...we have lots of ways to knock out tanks, and 1000 men is not a lot. And if a random Grot or insane cultist with an autogun can put a lucky bullet through the lens of a Marine's helmet I'm sure an A-10 Warthog (to pick an example everyone knows, military types might be able to provide more modern examples) could make a mess of power armour.

Marines NEVER operate alone in planetary invasion. They would be employed to destroy enemy’s most important nods I don’t think the US/NATO command infrastructure would resist the sudden strike of one or two SM chapters. Even though a hundred of thousands of our soldiers are defending these places, they woulds be wiped by orbital strikes and then Dreadnoughts, Terminator and Assault marines would be unleashed upon the few survivors. And don’t even think about calling air support or ground reinforcements; the air is full of spacejets fighters and your main forces are currently trying to survive the ungodly amount of ordnance the IG is throwing at them on the front line.

IG? We'd probably do quite well again. Most IG weapons and vehicles don't seem that far beyond 20th century technology (depends on the author as usual), and it seems a lot of regiments use the kind of tactics we stopped using around 1918. If it's a more forward thinking regiment that doesn't, for example, send huge crowds of troops forward on pain of death, it would be a closer call.

Perhaps we should also stop thinking of IG as a bunch of clowns in flak armor. Only conscripts recruited in time of great need are like this and they never take part in offensive operations like the invasion of Eerth would be. Other regiments like Cadian are the finest of what Humanity can produce and they would tread on us, with not a single feth given to losses. They are trained since childhood in totalitarian environments, their officiers are excelling in every type of warfare and they are backed by powerful psykers that would read in your commander’s mind. Some of them are actually treating their men like cannon fodder, but others are strategically brilliant; Myrondas Odon, Creed and consorts have nothing to be jealous to our commanders. I don’t see why NATO would stop an army that has successfully & almost simultaneously stopped Tyranids & Abbadon.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Modern military would wipe it's ass with Sisters of Battle in a ground war.

For that matter, we'd likely do the same to a Marine chapter.

you're assuming our weapons could penatrate marine armor.

bad assumption to make

Fluff says otherwise. Bolter rounds are only .75 caliber; what do you think an anti-tank hellfire missile fired from a drone would to a marine?

What drone?
Drones are only viable when you have complete air superiority and the enemy has no AA, otherwise they get shot down quickly.
A anti-tank missile could kill a Marine if it scores a direct hit. But we would run out of missiles and launch platforms long before we could even eliminate a single company. Marines don't just go stand in the open waiting for enemy airstrikes, they drop pod right into the enemy airbase and take it out.
Earth would be chanceless against Space Marines. In the fluff, we have small SM forces conquering worlds with tech that is far ahead of our current technology level. Modern Earth is rather primitive on a 40k scale.

We have more man-portable anti-tank rounds then there are marines in an entire chapter. We have more drones then there are marines with man-portable anti-air weaponry in an entire chapter.

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to command a war-effort in his absence.

The only way Space Marines could defeat modern Earth is with air/space assets, as we don't the technology to attack thunderhawks, battle-barges etc, but then that isn't "the Space Marines" winning the battle, it's basically them sitting in the back and watching their ships pummel us until there's nothing left. If Marines were dropped in say, Montana, and told to fight their way to the White House and capture it, they would never make it without orbital/thunderhawk bombardments paving the way.

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to take his place.The only way Space Marines could defeat modern Earth is with air/space assets, but then that isn't "the Space Marines" winning the battle, it's basically them sitting int he back and watching their ships pummel us until there's nothing left.

Yeah, sure, we would coherently face a full scale invasion without any hgher coordination. Full Spectrum Dominance is relying on heavy linkage between military units and perfect coordination of fires. When you electronic servers are taken down, your commanders are dead, and your satellites are off, I will be curious how you would resist.

Umm...to the people who are claiming that our technology is better than the Imperium, you have to be joking. I get that we are talking about taking a fictional setting and applying it to real world, so we all have to suspend reality for a moment. But, seriously, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that imperial tanks are not made out of steel. Even low grade ceramite is supposed to have significant heat and shock absorption qualities. We really do not have a great way of gauging the durability and strength of high quality ceramite, let alone adamantium. Our weapons are designed to penetrate known alloys, not the substances used in the 40k world where steel does indeed exist. To just assume that our guns could penetrate their defenses because our guns perform so well against our own defenses is significantly flawed logic.

Beyond that, we do not have lascannons, we do not have force field generators or void shields, we do not have the genetic engineering skills of the Astartes, etc. Titans may appear silly when you could just fire a missile at one...except that it would not penetrate its shields and even if it did, why is it safe to assume that it would penetrate its armor that is crafted from entirely unknown materials? They have vastly superior technology and to argue otherwise is just ludicrous (again, the conversation is already ludicrous so take that statement with a grain of salt). People have mentioned our nuclear arsenal. Ok...it is not as if the Imperium does not have the same technology, saying nothing of things such as viral bombs and the unrestricted chemical warfare that they would be more than willing to employ. Besides, if you nuke the planet then we are at an incredible disadvantage. Between their genetic engineering and experience fighting in such environments, they would have the upper hand.

To extend that statement to include Xenos tech...does anyone honestly think we have anything even remotely comparable to some of the more exotic weaponry that dissolves targets at the molecular level? Let's not get carried away with overestimating Earth's military forces or technology...

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Yeah, sure, we would coherently face a full scale invasion without any igher coordination. Full Spectrum Dominance is relying on heavy linkage between military units and perfect coordination of fires. When you electronic servers are taken down, your commanders are dead, and your satellites are off, I will be curious how you would resist.

I perfectly read it. Tell me what you find disturbing?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to command a war-effort in his absence.

This is wrong. Politicians want their power preserved, that's their No#1 objective. If they can't do this because the baddies can just pop up next to them and put mini-rockets into their bodies, then they will surrender, beg for mercy, and hope that their new conquerors won't mess up the established power structure. Politics 101.

Of course, this could only happen if they even try to fight. I think the chance for this is actually negligible. The world leaders would probably surrender without firing a single shot because submission is a billion times better option here than resistance.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Modern military would wipe it's ass with Sisters of Battle in a ground war.

For that matter, we'd likely do the same to a Marine chapter.

you're assuming our weapons could penatrate marine armor.

bad assumption to make

Fluff says otherwise. Bolter rounds are only .75 caliber; what do you think an anti-tank hellfire missile fired from a drone would to a marine?

What drone?
Drones are only viable when you have complete air superiority and the enemy has no AA, otherwise they get shot down quickly.
A anti-tank missile could kill a Marine if it scores a direct hit. But we would run out of missiles and launch platforms long before we could even eliminate a single company. Marines don't just go stand in the open waiting for enemy airstrikes, they drop pod right into the enemy airbase and take it out.
Earth would be chanceless against Space Marines. In the fluff, we have small SM forces conquering worlds with tech that is far ahead of our current technology level. Modern Earth is rather primitive on a 40k scale.

We have more man-portable anti-tank rounds then there are marines in an entire chapter. We have more drones then there are marines with man-portable anti-air weaponry in an entire chapter.

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to command a war-effort in his absence.

The only way Space Marines could defeat modern Earth is with air/space assets, as we don't the technology to attack thunderhawks, battle-barges etc, but then that isn't "the Space Marines" winning the battle, it's basically them sitting in the back and watching their ships pummel us until there's nothing left. If Marines were dropped in say, Montana, and told to fight their way to the White House and capture it, they would never make it without orbital/thunderhawk bombardments paving the way.

Mankind would not surrender after Obama was killed, yes. But would mankind surrender after an entire Space Marines Chapter drops into New York City, massacres the population and gets out before army units are mobilised enough to put up an organised defence?
We have enough drones and missiles to kill an entire Space Marine Chapter, yes. But would those still be any use after the Marines have dropped in and destroyed their base?
Even if our weapons and armour were more advanced than those of the Space Marines, we would still lose because the Marines have a crucial advantage over us. Mobility. Mobility is far mor important in warfare than numbers or raw strenght. The Marines could strike wherever we are weak and get out before we can respond (modern armies are notoriously slow to do so, requiring days up to weeks or even months to set up an operation.) The war would be fought entirely on their terms. It would be a massacre.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Modern military would wipe it's ass with Sisters of Battle in a ground war.

For that matter, we'd likely do the same to a Marine chapter.

you're assuming our weapons could penatrate marine armor.

bad assumption to make

Fluff says otherwise. Bolter rounds are only .75 caliber; what do you think an anti-tank hellfire missile fired from a drone would to a marine?

What drone?
Drones are only viable when you have complete air superiority and the enemy has no AA, otherwise they get shot down quickly.
A anti-tank missile could kill a Marine if it scores a direct hit. But we would run out of missiles and launch platforms long before we could even eliminate a single company. Marines don't just go stand in the open waiting for enemy airstrikes, they drop pod right into the enemy airbase and take it out.
Earth would be chanceless against Space Marines. In the fluff, we have small SM forces conquering worlds with tech that is far ahead of our current technology level. Modern Earth is rather primitive on a 40k scale.

We have more man-portable anti-tank rounds then there are marines in an entire chapter. We have more drones then there are marines with man-portable anti-air weaponry in an entire chapter.

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to command a war-effort in his absence.

The only way Space Marines could defeat modern Earth is with air/space assets, as we don't the technology to attack thunderhawks, battle-barges etc, but then that isn't "the Space Marines" winning the battle, it's basically them sitting in the back and watching their ships pummel us until there's nothing left. If Marines were dropped in say, Montana, and told to fight their way to the White House and capture it, they would never make it without orbital/thunderhawk bombardments paving the way.

Mankind would not surrender after Obama was killed, yes. But would mankind surrender after an entire Space Marines Chapter drops into New York City, massacres the population and gets out before army units are mobilised enough to put up an organised defence?
We have enough drones and missiles to kill an entire Space Marine Chapter, yes. But would those still be any use after the Marines have dropped in and destroyed their base?
Even if our weapons and armour were more advanced than those of the Space Marines, we would still lose because the Marines have a crucial advantage over us. Mobility. Mobility is far mor important in warfare than numbers or raw strenght. The Marines could strike wherever we are weak and get out before we can respond (modern armies are notoriously slow to do so, requiring days up to weeks or even months to set up an operation.) The war would be fought entirely on their terms. It would be a massacre.

Mankind would probably surrender after the eastern seaboard was left a flaming ruin by orbital bombardment, with another highly populated area probably getting glassed by multiple teratons worth of energy just to show they can do it again. Repeat this act of genocide until the remainder surrenders.

 Kain wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Modern military would wipe it's ass with Sisters of Battle in a ground war.

For that matter, we'd likely do the same to a Marine chapter.

you're assuming our weapons could penatrate marine armor.

bad assumption to make

Fluff says otherwise. Bolter rounds are only .75 caliber; what do you think an anti-tank hellfire missile fired from a drone would to a marine?

What drone?
Drones are only viable when you have complete air superiority and the enemy has no AA, otherwise they get shot down quickly.
A anti-tank missile could kill a Marine if it scores a direct hit. But we would run out of missiles and launch platforms long before we could even eliminate a single company. Marines don't just go stand in the open waiting for enemy airstrikes, they drop pod right into the enemy airbase and take it out.
Earth would be chanceless against Space Marines. In the fluff, we have small SM forces conquering worlds with tech that is far ahead of our current technology level. Modern Earth is rather primitive on a 40k scale.

We have more man-portable anti-tank rounds then there are marines in an entire chapter. We have more drones then there are marines with man-portable anti-air weaponry in an entire chapter.

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to command a war-effort in his absence.

The only way Space Marines could defeat modern Earth is with air/space assets, as we don't the technology to attack thunderhawks, battle-barges etc, but then that isn't "the Space Marines" winning the battle, it's basically them sitting in the back and watching their ships pummel us until there's nothing left. If Marines were dropped in say, Montana, and told to fight their way to the White House and capture it, they would never make it without orbital/thunderhawk bombardments paving the way.

Mankind would not surrender after Obama was killed, yes. But would mankind surrender after an entire Space Marines Chapter drops into New York City, massacres the population and gets out before army units are mobilised enough to put up an organised defence?
We have enough drones and missiles to kill an entire Space Marine Chapter, yes. But would those still be any use after the Marines have dropped in and destroyed their base?
Even if our weapons and armour were more advanced than those of the Space Marines, we would still lose because the Marines have a crucial advantage over us. Mobility. Mobility is far mor important in warfare than numbers or raw strenght. The Marines could strike wherever we are weak and get out before we can respond (modern armies are notoriously slow to do so, requiring days up to weeks or even months to set up an operation.) The war would be fought entirely on their terms. It would be a massacre.

Mankind would probably surrender after the eastern seaboard was left a flaming ruin by orbital bombardment, with another highly populated area probably getting glassed by multiple teratons worth of energy just to show they can do it again. Repeat this act of genocide until the remainder surrenders.

I have to disagree with your last statement; modern armies aren't bad with mobility: I don't know for your country, but French army (I mean, a part of it, I don't remember how many soldiers/tanks) can be moved nearly anywhere in 48h on this planet. As America has a lot more planes, boat and bases all over the world, I don't think it's hard to go from a point A to a point B quickly .

Tau.

I'm picking Tau because modern military wouldn't stand a chance in hell against any faction from 40k. It would just be a series of short battles followed by quick surrender/extermination.

The Tau are precise enough that civilian casualties would be minimized, and because of the "greater good" doctrine they'd probably let us keep most of our culture and join their empire. With Chaos, Orcs, Necron, etc. the population of Earth would be buthered, and with any Imperial faction we'd be forced to follow the Imperial Cult and there'd be mass killings to eradicate all other religions from our planet.

Religion is EXACTLY why the Imperium would have to kill almost every last soul on Earth. There is no way in hell any nation rolls over, even in the Marines iced every world leader it would not force a surrender. If anything it'd have the direct opposite result, forging the planet into a united front against the threat.

Not to mention people are assuming Marines COULD drop into a city like New York AND get out. Those pods drop and stay there. And those Thunderhawks, Stormravens, Valks, Vendettas, etc. that COULD evac would be getting blown apart by the handfuls by YF-22s, Su-47s, etc. (As I said before the aircraft from the 70s are better then the Imperium's offerings.) that the Imperium's amazingly backwards sensors wouldn't even be able to lock onto or SEE. It'd be a massacre for the Space Marines. And even the IG can't win an air battle, and our ground vehicles are generally faster and more maneuverable.

A Chimera is a slug compared to even a Bradley or Striker. And a Bradley has comparable firepower to the Chimera.

The only advantage is the orbital bombardments which if we are assuming they are here to take offer would not be used.


The worst match up for humanity is Chaos Daemons and CSM. As those two can play on our more fractious nature, and only attack after they have corrupted several high ranking officials. I.E. they'd make us kill ourselves and then pick off the remnants.

But anything that just shows up on our doorstep and tries to go full invasion is going to get hurt badly.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Fezman wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Can flak armour stop a bullet?

Yes. That's what it's designed to do. You do know that flak armor is a real thing, right?

I generally assume it to be low quality cheap rubbish compared to real-world body armour...but there's also probably lore that says the opposite. Even the Lexicanum article on flak armour isn't clear, saying that it is meant to absorb the majority of impact from a shot before saying it stands up poorly to a direct hit.

Please note that the lowly flak armor can withstand a heavy machine gun (heavy stubber) round. This is a feat most IRL military vehicles lack completely. Pound-to-pound, the IG flak armor should provide roughly the same level of protection as the armor on the Stryker APC.


Anyway, I would vote Tau. They are not humans, so the USA/Russia/China/EU wouldn't join them as soon as they touch ground (a possibility everyone in this thread has forgotten), and their army and tech is pretty 'meh' - it is better, but not beyond IRL comprehension. We could just reverse-engineer their stuff and get a win through numbers and the home turf advantage.

Outside of some of North America's natives, which nation has *ever* let someone else walk in and tell them what to do without a fight?

The big nations'd treat the Imperium the same way Chechnya treated Russia when it tried to throw its weight around.

On the other hand, Tau have a history of using advanced EMP tech to wreck Imperial forces on a battlefieldc level. (Farsight Enclave pg 20). Given that their tech works even on a LR battle tank, I'm pretty sure the Tau'd be capable of rendering entire earth tank divisions useless before they could make it to the battlefield. Remora drones would be able to strike Earth aircraft on the ground before they could make a response and be nigh-immune to counter-attack.

If you're wanting a model of what resistance to Tau rule would look like, Tibet is a good example. Earth would go from a primitive back-galaxy society to one with super-advanced technology. When the lot of the common people improves, resistance isn't as forthcoming.

I loathe this kind of question. The background of 40k has far too many writers without a idea of the way things work in the real world- which doesn't become a problem until you rely on them as your main source of evidence. One side is debating using things like actual physics, real weapons and their abilities, and the practice of war... while the other uses the unrealistic descriptions of sci-fi authors.

It's not anything that can really be answered "correctly", as one side is right simply because the authors of the universe state something to be true, and the other is right because of the application of a more realistic understanding.

And it's also not something that is wrong, and I'm not trying to insinuate one side to be smarter or anything, as my logic is telling me both are equally right.

That said, our military's could handle... probably no 40k armies. Size is essential here. One planet is nothing in the scale of the 40k universe. The United States has one of the largest military's on Earth, and we have around 2 and a quarter million soldiers, counting reserves, and all the different branches (and its dropping). Think about it, the Army is one of the largest branches and has a force of around 470,000 active duty members. That's it. I don't think there is a force in the 40k universe that comes even close to being as low as that. In fact, the Space Marines have theoretically TWO TIMES as many soldiers as the US Army active duty personnel. Then you think about the fact that there is only 7 Combat Arms branches, that number falls. Then you consider the tooth to tail ratio and other miscellaneous logistical problems and such. So we are down to much less than 100,000 soldiers that can take the field in either offensive or defensive operations (probably about half that number) in one of the largest ground army's in the world. Even if we had mind blowingly sophisticated and effective technology, we have absolutely no chance of winning anything but a small skirmish against any army in 40k.

And those Thunderhawks, Stormravens, Valks, Vendettas, etc. that COULD evac would be getting blown apart by the handfuls by YF-22s, Su-47s, etc. (As I said before the aircraft from the 70s are better then the Imperium's offerings.) that the Imperium's amazingly backwards sensors wouldn't even be able to lock onto or SEE. It'd be a massacre for the Space Marines. And even the IG can't win an air battle, and our ground vehicles are generally faster and more maneuverable.

Some of the Imperial aerial armada would certainly be shot down by those planes but after? The USAF of yours will scramble its 187 F-22, they would launch 250 missiles, return to base to refuel and get caught at ground by Elysian/SM/Orbital Strike/anything else. And it is certainly not the 2000 F-35 that would balance the war in the air, for the exact same reasons. Modern airbases are easy targets for an all-seing enemy coming from outer space; perhaps the first wave of Imperial fighters would be destroyed, but strategically, their better mobility and superior numbers will prevail. F-22 is an excellent tactical tool, nothing more, nothing less.

Needless to say, their stealth properties could probably countered by Imperial cruisers in space or whatever technology they have (don't forget the AdMech detain the secrets of the IA of the past, they know perfectly how to neutralize electronics since they are tasked withmakig sure the reemergence of any kind of computer would never happen). Stealth is not an automatic "I won"; even in our XXi° century, the stealth capabilities of the F-22 are getting more compromised with every day that goes by. Just like the Chinese/Russian Air Force will do, the Imperial Navy would rely on a far superior numbers and unavoidable waves of cheap missiles.
Imperial sensors are sometimes able to catch Eldar vessels in combat, I highly doubt Western technology will afraid them.

Problem is against Space Marines, 250 dead targets, with marines, dreads, vehicles etc. Wipes out chapters of equipment and man power. Guard a bit less so, But I just used the best example. A world invasion everything up an F-4 Phantom or Intruder is going to wreck the every loving hell out of the Imperium. And it's not just the USAF, Russia's Migs and SU-47, and the Euro craft like the Dasaults will be in the air, and British Harrier jump jets. Space Marines might take out one or two air bases or a carrier, but they'd have to do it via teleporter at best, cause they won't make it to the ground with drop pods or aircraft.

If it doesn't have void shields it burns.

Plus you are assuming the ship drops out of warp right over Earth. It CAN but the likely hood, with no astropath available, could dump a ship anywhere in the solar system and they'd have to advance with thrusters only, giving earth a lot of prep time.

Plus you are assuming the ship drops out of warp right over Earth. It CAN but the likely hood, with no astropath available, could dump a ship anywhere in the solar system and they'd have to advance with thrusters only, giving earth a lot of prep time.

Sounds you're mistaking Imperial strategists for dummies. They are used to plan planetary invasion, and just like I stated in my previous posts, they have already crushed many independant human civilisation, whether their technology was better or not. I see no reason why no Astropaths would be available.

Moreover, they are not stupid enough to waste their elite troops. Marines will never assault our defence without heavy preparation. Do you really think they will drop an entire chapter among hundreds of fighters? There are two things to wipe this out even before Marines pop out, they are called Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard. Marines are way too precious and NEVER operate alone in operations of such scales.

 godardc wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Modern military would wipe it's ass with Sisters of Battle in a ground war.

For that matter, we'd likely do the same to a Marine chapter.

you're assuming our weapons could penatrate marine armor.

bad assumption to make

Fluff says otherwise. Bolter rounds are only .75 caliber; what do you think an anti-tank hellfire missile fired from a drone would to a marine?

What drone?
Drones are only viable when you have complete air superiority and the enemy has no AA, otherwise they get shot down quickly.
A anti-tank missile could kill a Marine if it scores a direct hit. But we would run out of missiles and launch platforms long before we could even eliminate a single company. Marines don't just go stand in the open waiting for enemy airstrikes, they drop pod right into the enemy airbase and take it out.
Earth would be chanceless against Space Marines. In the fluff, we have small SM forces conquering worlds with tech that is far ahead of our current technology level. Modern Earth is rather primitive on a 40k scale.

We have more man-portable anti-tank rounds then there are marines in an entire chapter. We have more drones then there are marines with man-portable anti-air weaponry in an entire chapter.

Space Marines drop-podding down and killing "the head" only works in the 40K universe- in the real world, mankind wouldn't surrender because Obama got taken out by Space Marines- there are a million politicians and generals in the chain of command who are trained to command a war-effort in his absence.

The only way Space Marines could defeat modern Earth is with air/space assets, as we don't the technology to attack thunderhawks, battle-barges etc, but then that isn't "the Space Marines" winning the battle, it's basically them sitting in the back and watching their ships pummel us until there's nothing left. If Marines were dropped in say, Montana, and told to fight their way to the White House and capture it, they would never make it without orbital/thunderhawk bombardments paving the way.

Mankind would not surrender after Obama was killed, yes. But would mankind surrender after an entire Space Marines Chapter drops into New York City, massacres the population and gets out before army units are mobilised enough to put up an organised defence?
We have enough drones and missiles to kill an entire Space Marine Chapter, yes. But would those still be any use after the Marines have dropped in and destroyed their base?
Even if our weapons and armour were more advanced than those of the Space Marines, we would still lose because the Marines have a crucial advantage over us. Mobility. Mobility is far mor important in warfare than numbers or raw strenght. The Marines could strike wherever we are weak and get out before we can respond (modern armies are notoriously slow to do so, requiring days up to weeks or even months to set up an operation.) The war would be fought entirely on their terms. It would be a massacre.

Mankind would probably surrender after the eastern seaboard was left a flaming ruin by orbital bombardment, with another highly populated area probably getting glassed by multiple teratons worth of energy just to show they can do it again. Repeat this act of genocide until the remainder surrenders.

I have to disagree with your last statement; modern armies aren't bad with mobility: I don't know for your country, but French army (I mean, a part of it, I don't remember how many soldiers/tanks) can be moved nearly anywhere in 48h on this planet. As America has a lot more planes, boat and bases all over the world, I don't think it's hard to go from a point A to a point B quickly .

A teraton detonation would cause so much ecological damage that it would cause agriculture the world over to collapse. You can't fight a war if your country's collapsing behind you and the only way to stop a Dinosaur killer level blast from slamming into your planet every hour on the hour is to give up and bow to the Emperor.


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 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is against Space Marines, 250 dead targets, with marines, dreads, vehicles etc. Wipes out chapters of equipment and man power. Guard a bit less so, But I just used the best example. A world invasion everything up an F-4 Phantom or Intruder is going to wreck the every loving hell out of the Imperium. And it's not just the USAF, Russia's Migs and SU-47, and the Euro craft like the Dasaults will be in the air, and British Harrier jump jets. Space Marines might take out one or two air bases or a carrier, but they'd have to do it via teleporter at best, cause they won't make it to the ground with drop pods or aircraft.

If it doesn't have void shields it burns.

Plus you are assuming the ship drops out of warp right over Earth. It CAN but the likely hood, with no astropath available, could dump a ship anywhere in the solar system and they'd have to advance with thrusters only, giving earth a lot of prep time.

As someone who was in the Russian Army I can assure you the Earth has no defenses against a ship capable of shrugging off the dinosaur killer asteroid and dishing out dinosaur killer asteroid level blasts repeatedly. Just point at a country's most vital areas and blast it. Repeat until the world's ecosystem collapses or humanity surrenders. It's like the situation Japan faced at the end of world war 2. It might be able to fight America and make it bleed a million lives; but there's nothing it can do to stop America from dropping a nuke every few weeks and vaporizing a city. Only this time it's not a city but entire regions of the planet having chixilub sized craters being blasted into them and global environmental disruptions occuring after each full powered shot from a space ship that we can't even reach or even scratch the void shields of.

If none of them have orbital superiority, yet certain capabilities coming from it, such as even though they don't have a strike cruiser marines are allowed to deploy by drop pod still it would be interesting.

I have to say, if the dark elder in particular didn't have much in the name of air vehicles, they could be the easiest to handle maybe... The world would still end most likely, but if the DE are just hovering about on their readers, I have to guess that F-22's and the like could probably blow them out of the air currently.

I'd happen to guess that the same could happen with guard or marines in a ground war also, but if the marines have thunder hawks and the like in abundance, then it would be very different. Air to ground missiles should take a single marine out though, so you just go big on the air power.

Though, when they are dropping down and taking the air bases, then that tactic is out.

Subs with cruise missiles? Haha.

Tau, Necrons, elder, nids, chaos would wipe the floor with our world so fast it would be ridiculous, same goes for marines dropping down with a tech marine to hack, straight into the pentagon as well, control of all the US's nukes in probably under 10 minutes.... There will be no ground war.

Yes, there's not much hope to have facing the Imperium.

I'd happen to guess that the same could happen with guard or marines in a ground war also, but if the marines have thunder hawks and the like in abundance, then it would be very different. Air to ground missiles should take a single marine out though, so you just go big on the air power.

Even with guided ammo like GBU or Hellfire, that would not be a very cost-effective way to defeat the whole Imperial Forces. We would have to save this kind of ordnance for bigger stuff like Russes and LR, letting regular marines facing smaller weapons on the ground. And when our air superiority is over, well, we're fethed even harder.

Don't try to withstand the full might of the Hammer of the Emperor for bowing before him shall save your day

I'm assuming it isn't the full might of the imperium, 1 regiment of guard, or one company of marines, any more that that would be total overkill.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Outside of some of North America's natives, which nation has *ever* let someone else walk in and tell them what to do without a fight?

Any that had the chance to do so of course. That's the whole colonialism era plus some. India, China, half the mini-nations in the Prussian and Italian Unification Wars, and so on and so forth. Hell, if you want a recent example, then Crimea.

Also, it is worth noting that every time a nation resisted, they had:
- Backing from another, more powerful nation or nations.
- A chance in the long run to succeed.
Earth would have neither against the Imperium.

I don't say that Earth would surrender without any fight, just that the nations wouldn't fight. Maybe a general or two would turn renegade and attack the new governance, but they would be put down by other Earth forces supported by Imperial assets.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

If you're wanting a model of what resistance to Tau rule would look like, Tibet is a good example. Earth would go from a primitive back-galaxy society to one with super-advanced technology. When the lot of the common people improves, resistance isn't as forthcoming.

More like Afghanistan vs USA. Yeah, that worked out just fine, didn't it ?

 Da Stormlord wrote:
This was a hard choice for me, so i posted it here to see what people say. I excluded imperial guard and Astartes from this one for obvious reasons..

There is a small chance to beat Orks depending on the technology level of the Orks and the intelligence of the warboss by that i mean maybe 10 %.

Everybody else there is no chance to win.