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I would peg the stealth suit to be about XV9 sized. Little bigger than a broadside.

Also, man, if they limit Riptides I will LAUGH SO DAMN HARD. As a Tau player there is very little I find as stupid as riptide spam.

maceria wrote:
I would peg the stealth suit to be about XV9 sized. Little bigger than a broadside.

Also, man, if they limit Riptides I will LAUGH SO DAMN HARD. As a Tau player there is very little I find as stupid as riptide spam.

How would they limit the Riptide? Stormsurge is larger than it and will probably be our LoW. The special formations will have slots for Riptides. You can still use CADs.

Will the Farsight supplement-codex be legal to use after the new dex?

legal? yes! broken? most likely!

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
Will the Farsight supplement-codex be legal to use after the new dex?

Unlikely. Ask the Iyanden folks.

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
Will the Farsight supplement-codex be legal to use after the new dex?

There is no clear answer. Some supplements have stayed (Sentinels of Terra) and some supplements have gone (Iyanden).

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
Will the Farsight supplement-codex be legal to use after the new dex?

While possible, I think it's unlikely. If Eldar are any indication, FE is most likely gonna stop being legal with the new codex, though there is always hope. Personally I forsee some of the relics from FE (namely Talisman and ECPA) being transferred over to the main codex in some form or another, and Tau getting a Core formation in their Decurion for Battlesuits. Similar to how Eldar have three core formations, one of Storm Guardians, one for Battle Guardians, and one for bikes, I think (read as hope) Tau are going to get a Core formation for Fire Warriors, and a Core formation for Crisis Suits. So long as there is some way in the new codex to take my Crisis Suits as troops and/or build a battlesuit only army, I'll be happy.

That's what I'm expecting/hoping they don't screw it up further. My guess is that there will be a special Farsight decurion type detachment (maybe in White Dwarf) and crisis and broadside formations in the codex. The Farsight detachment will have those as mandatory with some other things as options. That's my guess.

I would agree with that warboss. Ideally we get the Dark Angels treatment where we get a seperate detachment for a Farsight style list. There will absolutely be formations for the various battlesuits (likely one for each type of suit or a shift in the apoc formations we have now, ie Crisis and Stealth Suits in one, and Riptides and Broadsides in another). I just really don't wanna have to take Fire Warriors and such to make a Decurion or Combined Arms list. I have nothing against FWs and such, I just wanna be able to make a full battlesuit list, since the battlesuits were the main reason I got into Tau in the first place.

I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
It's very unlikely the Riptide class will be turned into GMC's they just aren't big enough. And we have our new gigantic Supremacy Armor to cover that role from the looks of it.

Fix'd. The Stormsurge actually doesn't look much bigger than the Riptide, and much of its bulk is its weapons.

The Stormsurge is much bigger than a Riptide. If you compare the waists of each, you will see the stormsurge has a lot more detail in places you can't get detail into the Riptide.

Also, the numberings. The XV104 is the Riptide, and the first two numbers designates the size. The XV139 is the FW superheavy, and we know it stands as tall as one of the crazy FW knights. Because of that, it's logical to assume that the Stormsurge will be approximately the same size as an Imperial Knight (normal one, not the tall FW ones).

The biggest clue to its size is the foot. Look how large it is when next to troops. The Riptide's aren't that big.

GI_Redshirt wrote:I would agree with that warboss. Ideally we get the Dark Angels treatment where we get a seperate detachment for a Farsight style list. There will absolutely be formations for the various battlesuits (likely one for each type of suit or a shift in the apoc formations we have now, ie Crisis and Stealth Suits in one, and Riptides and Broadsides in another). I just really don't wanna have to take Fire Warriors and such to make a Decurion or Combined Arms list. I have nothing against FWs and such, I just wanna be able to make a full battlesuit list, since the battlesuits were the main reason I got into Tau in the first place.

To be honest, I can't see it. The only reason the Space Marine supplements are still in print is because Space Marines are the top sellers. Tau will almost certainly get a Decurion-style detachment, but Fire Warriors will probably be mandatory. The most you will get as far as battlesuits go is some sort of dedicated formation. Fortunately, because this is 7th edition, you can play that formation as a standalone army.

warboss wrote:I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.

Like they did with the Slaughtercult and Possessed? Or the Decurion and Tomb Blades? You forget: GW exists to sell models. There's a 100% chance of this happening with Tau. Inb4 mandatory Vespid!

On a more hopeful note, Tomb Blades are really good for Necorns and the Vaul's Wrath and Vypers can be made to work with Eldar.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)

They all have the standard Riptide legs with different tight plates, so they can't be that different in terms of size.

The Stormsurge doesn't have Riptide legs. Look at the pose and thickness.

 Gamgee wrote:
The Stormsurge doesn't have Riptide legs. Look at the pose and thickness.

It only has thicker tight plates, that's all. Also, I think you can pose the Riptide legs like that, so it doesn't make a difference either. They are all on the large oval base, yet their size doesn't change much when compared to their (shared) bases, so there is that too.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)

They all have the standard Riptide legs with different tight plates, so they can't be that different in terms of size.

They're different, looking at these pictures there's more detail on the Stormsurges lower legs than the Riptides:



And the Ghostkeel is definitely a fair bit smaller than the Riptide. Probably between broadside and riptide. The Ghostkeel seems to be on a round base, not the oval one.

The Stormsurge is in a crouching position as well. If it was standing it would tower over the Riptide which is standing in the leaked pics.

Edit
I think the Stormsurge and the Ghostkeel are completely new kits, and I think the Riptide is being repackaged to include new weapons options or something. Maybe it makes a variant we haven't seen yet? I find the first option more likely but you never know.

It's obvious none of the new kits shown look like they would need to be packaged in with existing models they just don't make sense to pack in with the Riptide. So if these are both models we have to ask ourselves. What was the Riptide kit pulled from reorder for?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)

They all have the standard Riptide legs with different tight plates, so they can't be that different in terms of size.

They're different, looking at these pictures there's more detail on the Stormsurges lower legs than the Riptides:
http://i.imgur.com/ArYzcgi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jjjKDsI.jpg

And the Ghostkeel is definitely a fair bit smaller than the Riptide. Probably Broadside sized or a bit bigger.

Ah, the joints tricked me . They still look eerily similar, so I still think that the size difference should be largely negligible.

GW are sneaking a GMC past you and you didn't even notice it. haha.

 Gamgee wrote:
GW are sneaking a GMC past you and you didn't even notice it. haha.

Nah, we already know how a Tau GMC looks like, and the Stormsurge is nowhere even near to that. The two new suits are gonna be normal MCs in the Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots so that GW can maximize the number of new models sold. They will pull a Necron and make Aun'va a LoW choice.

If they do do the Farsight book - be good to make it a proper independant enclave rather than allowing anything from the main codex - ie no etherials or new Tech.

The last codex allowing both made zero sense.

New tech makes sense though, tau defect and some funnel intel.

Etherials didn't though.

Yeah, they made up new fluff specifically to justify why the Enclaves have access to new tech like the riptide (if I'm not mistaken one of "the Eight" was a defector from the Empire that brought a whole ship full of goodies with her). Would be kinda stupid on GW's part to restrict access to any of the new models, unless they just aren't that interested in selling them. Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, they made up new fluff specifically to justify why the Enclaves have access to new tech like the riptide (if I'm not mistaken one of "the Eight" was a defector from the Empire that brought a whole ship full of goodies with her). Would be kinda stupid on GW's part to restrict access to any of the new models, unless they just aren't that interested in selling them. Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.

Chaos Space Marines would like a word...

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, they made up new fluff specifically to justify why the Enclaves have access to new tech like the riptide (if I'm not mistaken one of "the Eight" was a defector from the Empire that brought a whole ship full of goodies with her). Would be kinda stupid on GW's part to restrict access to any of the new models, unless they just aren't that interested in selling them. Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.

Except thats exactly what they do do - if you are special variant on the normal army theme - you gain stuff and loose stuff. Thats what happens with the Variant Astartes Chatpers and as already noted the Chaos Marines loose out on new Tech for no reason given they have whole chapters turning renegades with all the new kit.

Thats not to say Farsight could not have some unusual likely non Tau stuff - but it would be nice to have a theme rather than it being Codex +

You're actually proving my point, if anything. What I'm talking about would be like if heldrakes were restricted to armies led by undivided lords, or if they counted as a 0-1 Elite choice if you didn't bring an undivided lord. Or if only Alpha Legion were allowed to take units of cultists, or if Death Guard weren't allowed to use bikes or raptors at all, etc.

In that regard GW actually did make the CSM codex less restrictive than it used to be. The fact that it's also a pile of gak is irrelevant.

 Sidstyler wrote:
You're actually proving my point, if anything. What I'm talking about would be like if heldrakes were restricted to armies led by undivided lords, or if they counted as a 0-1 Elite choice if you didn't bring an undivided lord. Or if only Alpha Legion were allowed to take units of cultists, or if Death Guard weren't allowed to use bikes or raptors at all, etc.

In that regard GW actually did make the CSM codex less restrictive than it used to be. The fact that it's also a pile of gak is irrelevant.

Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades

The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?

There is the danger that the special chapters fall into of too many over themed units - like flying wolf sleds but in a ideal world - the chracter of the Farsight Enclaves could be kept without such excess.

I think we all agree there should be no Etherials in the FE list?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades

They should, yeah. Either that or they should return their focus to the Legions and think of some other way of representing the newly-turned renegades. The current codex doesn't do a very good job at representing either (and also sucks).

 Mr Morden wrote:
The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?

Yeah, and look at how happy a lot of those Blood Angels players were when their book dropped. They didn't seem to like their "theme" very much.

But no, there shouldn't be any ethereals in a FE list, for obvious reasons. That's a pretty significant part of the FE background and it would make no sense. But if they can find a way to explain FE getting riptides from defectors, and even made a point about how Farsight still has a lot of friends and sympathizers on Vior'la, I don't really see any reason to restrict access to the new suits (indeed it seems like they've set up the fluff specifically so that Farsight can get access to new stuff). Unless like I said, GW doesn't want money.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades

They should, yeah. Either that or they should return their focus to the Legions and think of some other way of representing the newly-turned renegades. The current codex doesn't do a very good job at representing either (and also sucks).

 Mr Morden wrote:
The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?

Yeah, and look at how happy a lot of those Blood Angels players were when their book dropped. They didn't seem to like their "theme" very much.

But no, there shouldn't be any ethereals in a FE list, for obvious reasons. That's a pretty significant part of the FE background and it would make no sense. But if they can find a way to explain FE getting riptides from defectors, and even made a point about how Farsight still has a lot of friends and sympathizers on Vior'la, I don't really see any reason to restrict access to the new suits. Unless like I said, GW doesn't want money.

Yeah thats the point your statement

Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.

is patently misleading when you look at the specific Astartes Chapters like the Blood Angels? Now an actual proper civil war in the Tau empire would be interesting

Its IMO the ongoing problem with the 40k rules - the lack of constistancy or indeed logic when it comes ot army composition and rules.

Again yeah GW would be sensible not to restrict units like the Riptide but GW don;t always make sense.