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 Mr Morden wrote:

Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades

Without going too far off-topic, that really doesn't mean that "they should have access to Loyalist technology".

Look at how the Heresy played out. Legions didn't turn traitor overnight, repainting everything and spikying it up. It was a gradual thing--and Horus along with his brothers went out of their way to ensure that the people they couldn't control were killed off before they made their big move at Isstvan.
And even then, they didn't get all of those people and some of them were those with what amounted to "the keys to the kingdom". It's not unreasonable to think that just because it says a Chapter went renegade, that it does not mean that everyone went renegade.

The Masters of the Forge(and their Techmarine underlings) reasonably might not be turning renegade alongside of the rest of those who turn renegade. The whole dual-allegiance to Mars and to the Chapter could result in the MOTF destroying his precious charges rather than letting them fall into the hands of traitors and oathbreakers.

I mean, there's literally tons of explanations beyond "because Legions didn't have it".

The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?

There is the danger that the special chapters fall into of too many over themed units - like flying wolf sleds but in a ideal world - the chracter of the Farsight Enclaves could be kept without such excess.

Pft. Logan Grimnar on Stormrider is awesome, don't know what you're talking about.

I think we all agree there should be no Etherials in the FE list?

But then what else would be "characterful"?

0-1 Riptides?
0-1 Stealth Teams if you're using the XV25 models, but as many as you'd like of the XV15?
No Pathfinder upgrades or any drones beyond Shield/Gun Drones?

There's a reason why the Farsight Enclave book introduced what amounts to a "sympathizer" element within the Tau Empire that feels that the Farsight Enclave is still loyal to the ideas of the Greater Good and that the Empire itself is beginning to be corrupted.
They also introduced a bit of a narrative element that essentially is the Tau Empire willing to look the other way to ensure that the FE is given equipment and supplies so that they can continue to be a buffer.

Is it possible that these aren't new Firewarriors? maybe an upgrade kit with new heads and back packs or something. The legs, arms, chest, and shoulder pads look exactly the same as the existing ones

As someone noted, the detail on the bodies is a bit crisper than the current castings.

 warboss wrote:
I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.

If the past Decurions have been any indication (Tomb Blades for Necrons, War Walkers/Vypers for Eldar, etc.), there will absolutely be an auto-include unit people didn't like. And going by the previous examples we've seen, personally I think the auto-include will be Piranhas. It fits with the theme of the past Decurions, a fast, vulnerable, unit for jumping around the board. Certainly makes more sense to have it as an actual Tau unit and not an auxiliary like Vespid or Kroot. The only other option I can think of would be Stealth Suits (thinking in terms of general units that don't see much play time and probably don't sell that much), but even they are still good, they just aren't used because the other Elite options are just so much better (speaking of which, can Stealth Suits be moved to FA please GW?)

So yeah, my prediction is Piranhas will be our forced include for Tau Decurion, but will see some kind of buff similar to Tomb Blades and Vypers (likely we'll get more weapon options like plasma rifles or missile pods, and possibly the ability to replace the gun drones like how Devilfish and the tanks can).

That would be my guess as they suck and I don't usually see anyone using them (just like Vypers)... and I don't have any. I might have to proxy a pair of Tetras as one pirahna instead. :(

edit: Suck is perhaps too strong of a word. Inefficient seems better. Anything they can do (except for last turn objective scoring) someone else in the Tau codex can do better and with the stupid 'take anything from anywhere" bound ally/detachment rules there are better last turn objective scorers as well.

The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...

Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?

The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.

My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.

IMHO & hoping...

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...

Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?

The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.

My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.

IMHO & hoping...

Personally I hope they are veteran fire warrior's

 brother marcus wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...

Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?

The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.

My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.

IMHO & hoping...

Personally I hope they are veteran fire warrior's

As long as they have shotguns & jetpacks, I don't care what they are called!

 GI_Redshirt wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.

If the past Decurions have been any indication (Tomb Blades for Necrons, War Walkers/Vypers for Eldar, etc.), there will absolutely be an auto-include unit people didn't like. And going by the previous examples we've seen, personally I think the auto-include will be Piranhas. It fits with the theme of the past Decurions, a fast, vulnerable, unit for jumping around the board. Certainly makes more sense to have it as an actual Tau unit and not an auxiliary like Vespid or Kroot. The only other option I can think of would be Stealth Suits (thinking in terms of general units that don't see much play time and probably don't sell that much), but even they are still good, they just aren't used because the other Elite options are just so much better (speaking of which, can Stealth Suits be moved to FA please GW?)

So yeah, my prediction is Piranhas will be our forced include for Tau Decurion, but will see some kind of buff similar to Tomb Blades and Vypers (likely we'll get more weapon options like plasma rifles or missile pods, and possibly the ability to replace the gun drones like how Devilfish and the tanks can).

New weapon options would require GW to release a new kit, which isn't likely. The best you can hope for is that your mandatory Piranhas will be somewhat cheaper.

I love how people refer to Tomb Blades and War Walkers/Vypers as "underwhelming".

That makes me wonder if they've actually read what the new things do.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 brother marcus wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...

Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?

The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.

My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.

IMHO & hoping...

Personally I hope they are veteran fire warrior's

As long as they have shotguns & jetpacks, I don't care what they are called!

Assault 3 range 16 pulse rifles and defensive enemy debuff grenades is my hope

New weapon options would require GW to release a new kit, which isn't likely. The best you can hope for is that your mandatory Piranhas will be somewhat cheaper.

Unfortunately you're probably right, but a man can dream right?

I love how people refer to Tomb Blades and War Walkers/Vypers as "underwhelming".

Prior to the 7th codices, they were pretty underwhelming. Never even saw a Tomb Blade model prior to 7th making them required for Decurion and them getting a buff. Same with Vypers. I would see War Walkers occasionally, but that was only from one Eldar player and only when he was making a more fun/casual list rather than a tournament list. Now all three are pretty awesome, but before this year? Not so much.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades

Without going too far off-topic, that really doesn't mean that "they should have access to Loyalist technology".

Look at how the Heresy played out. Legions didn't turn traitor overnight, repainting everything and spikying it up. It was a gradual thing--and Horus along with his brothers went out of their way to ensure that the people they couldn't control were killed off before they made their big move at Isstvan.
And even then, they didn't get all of those people and some of them were those with what amounted to "the keys to the kingdom". It's not unreasonable to think that just because it says a Chapter went renegade, that it does not mean that everyone went renegade.

The Masters of the Forge(and their Techmarine underlings) reasonably might not be turning renegade alongside of the rest of those who turn renegade. The whole dual-allegiance to Mars and to the Chapter could result in the MOTF destroying his precious charges rather than letting them fall into the hands of traitors and oathbreakers.

I mean, there's literally tons of explanations beyond "because Legions didn't have it".

Makes total sense and certainly explains a lot. There is a set protocol that every techmarine learns during his training on Mars as to what do in the event that your chapter goes renegade:

1. Launch all the drop pods.
2. Disable all the grav panels on all the land speeders.
3. Blow up all the whirlwind missile launchers.
4. Overload all the plasma cannons.
5. Set all the centurion suits to self-destruct.
6. Destroy the firing mechanisms on all the chapter's storm bolters.

It's step 6 where things really tend to get bogged down. I mean, practically every transport in the chapter's armoury comes equipped with one standard, so that's a lot of storm bolters to disable. And then there's all those storm bolters for the chapter's terminator armour. No wonder most Masters of the Forge never get to step 7 (destroy chapter fleet) before they're killed by their traitorous brethren. But each storm bolter is a rare and revered example of Imperial technology and if one were ever to fall into the hands of the Archenemy the consequences would be disastrous!

The leggings are more curved and crispy, too.

I have a different take on things,

The seeds of corruption come from the emperor himself for did he not create the primarchs that rebelled, so as the seeds of rebellion are hidden with in them they are hidden within the very technology he equipped them with,

but once sealed within the golden throne his malign influence was blocked, and the brand new (or rediscovered) technology the new chapters are equipped with is no longer blighted

so only those groups of marines without this new technology will fall to the ruinous powers, but nobody in the imperium sees this (or if they do they are executed for heresy)

 krazynadechukr wrote:
The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...

Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?

The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.

My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.

IMHO & hoping...

The base model is definitely the same. In the right corner of the picture the FWs thigh pad has the same imperfections as the current model of the same pose.

Which so long as all GW did was repackage FWs with another sprue you can count me out. The molds for the FWs are foul and there are way too many imperfections.

The slight hope is that somebody at the studio simply used old FW model bodies to get the most out of a dual kit. The other hope is that those arms, helmets, packs and shoulder guard are a upgrade kit that I can just add to the PF kit instead.

Anyone else notice the firewarrior that is only hold a pistol and moving forward has a non-standard left pauldron. I think that guy is not int he firewarrior kit, I think he meet be Fireteam leader. or a special firewarriror. Or is he already a model and I mistaken?

I'd say he's probably like this guy, would might mean this is a sort of close range, not completely gak at CC unit. Basically I3 WS3 with some sort of pulse shotgun (maybe 3 shots at 12" with pinning or something).

It's a shame we're not seeing any more pictures. I'm losing the #hype!

(Not really though)

Apparently the white dwarf that has the pics is actually a few issues in the future.

Its almost a month in the future (i.e. 3-4 issues) away.

Yeah, those were obviously pre-print proofs (or whatever they are called).

 warboss wrote:
Apparently the white dwarf that has the pics is actually a few issues in the future.

Cover said November....

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Apparently the white dwarf that has the pics is actually a few issues in the future.

Cover said November....

Because it's Visions.
Visions comes out at the end of each month; so if the releases for Tau are in October then the Visions showing them off will be a November release(because Visions showcases off what came the month before).

If you were to take a look at the GW website right now, you would see the September Visions issue was basically nothing but Stormcast Eternals and the stuff released in August.

Also, the numberings. The XV104 is the Riptide, and the first two numbers designates the size. The XV139 is the FW superheavy, and we know it stands as tall as one of the crazy FW knights. Because of that, it's logical to assume that the Stormsurge will be approximately the same size as an Imperial Knight (normal one, not the tall FW ones).

The FW supremacy armor is KX class, which is much bigger than XV class.

The White Dwarf cover that was for the Tau said October 10. And it seemed to be the second one as it had the Ghostkeel and talked in smaller text about having rules for a special game for the Stormsurge, So likely the Stormsurge will come out the week before.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Apparently the white dwarf that has the pics is actually a few issues in the future.

Cover said November....

Because it's Visions.
Visions comes out at the end of each month; so if the releases for Tau are in October then the Visions showing them off will be a November release(because Visions showcases off what came the month before).

If you were to take a look at the GW website right now, you would see the September Visions issue was basically nothing but Stormcast Eternals and the stuff released in August.

Ah, my bad. I see the White Dwarf cover says 10 October....

Merellin wrote:
The White Dwarf cover that was for the Tau said October 10. And it seemed to be the second one as it had the Ghostkeel and talked in smaller text about having rules for a special game for the Stormsurge, So likely the Stormsurge will come out the week before.

At least this confirms what was already suspected: Tau will be arriving in October.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tau-Empire-XV128-Stormsurge-Battlesuit

That's the current box.