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Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Actually with very little work they can be turned into a great anti-mech assaulter. Give them AP3 (for their diamond claws) S4 and A2.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I mean I think there are a million ways to make them better and more appealing options. A couple off the top of my head are:

Reduce points per model to 12-13 and offer them the ability to be taken as troop choices, that way they'd be an expensive troop choice with a lot of mobility and strong shooting, but weak armour and short range. It also just makes sense with the fluff as they're more accepted than the Kroot within the Tau society, but can't be troops?

Another possibility is to reduce cost and just give them more weapon options, as that way they'd have more potential utility with their movement. I think they're the only unit in the whole codex that only come with a total of one type of weapon that they can pick from. I know things like the Krootox and Sniper Drones only get one but one is an optional unit in a group with many options, and the other at least has options with the Marksmen to mix things up, this guys have one and only one choice. It wouldn't have to even be for every model, make it every Xth model can get a different gun, or one per squad, or something D:

Heck they can go a different direction and make them a very specialized unit choice that can stay high in cost and take an FA slot, but be a strong melee unit, something Tau doesn't have, and can use these guys at the expense of a little more points than other comparable options if they don't want to take allies to get those options.

It just always felt like the design of the Vespids was so lazy, when they're actually pretty interesting models that have good fluff.

I'll pluck you like a flower.

Tau Painting Blog [Updated: 12/27/15 Happy Dronecember!] : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662024.page#8088404

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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Either give Vespids assault 2 on their weapons or Jet Infantry rule so they could JSJ around terrain. As they currently stand having the Jump Infantry rule makes them seem like an assault infantry unit but they lack the volume of attacks and strength to be worth much in CC.

Plastic models would go a long way as well but that's not a $100 giant mecha suit so GW won't make it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 01:45:30


"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yea, plastic models would make me buy them probably just because I want to paint them. I can't really stand working with metal as the paint always chips :/.

It would actually be really cool to see them get JSJ, something I should have probably mentioned as right now like you said they basically get into close range to shoot, and then die because they're out in the open. I know they were supposed to be Marine Hunters originally, but right now their weapons are only slightly better than basic Pulse Rifles, due to their AP, but at double the cost and half the range, without benefiting from the myriad of buffs Fire Warriors do. It's insane.

Really, could you imagine if they got JSJ, the ability to put one Fusion/Plasma in the squad, and were able to be taken as troops for like 15 points each in a special army comp style of Tau that focused on that style of play? It would be like the Firesight Enclave but completely different as they'd have more units that were weaker, but utilized only models that could JSJ. It would be an amazingly fun army to play in terms of tactics because it would be mostly short ranged, but fast moving, and would require a lot of intelligent positioning in all phases of the game.

I'll pluck you like a flower.

Tau Painting Blog [Updated: 12/27/15 Happy Dronecember!] : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662024.page#8088404

LVO List Data Base (Submit your list if you played! Growing All the Time!): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y28px3mgjeergdn/AADDpUf3n_u2QfkiYzDzHSh0a?dl=0 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 Tinkrr wrote:
Yea, plastic models would make me buy them probably just because I want to paint them. I can't really stand working with metal as the paint always chips :/.


They haven't been metal for a few years but rather finecast and there isn't much chipping with that. Maybe some sagging if you leave it out in summer direct sunlight all day but not chipping (and the obvious casting flaws).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 02:40:44


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I say give them rending in melee and an additional attack each. Let them really fill a niche.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 warboss wrote:


They haven't been metal for a few years but rather finecast and there isn't much chipping with that. Maybe some sagging if you leave it out in summer direct sunlight all day but not chipping (and the obvious casting flaws).

Oh, weird, had no idea. Though if I'd buy a model just to play around with painting I'd try to get it cheap, but I only see metallic ones on Ebay D:


Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I say give them rending in melee and an additional attack each. Let them really fill a niche.

Heck, give them a FNP save if they're in CC since like other bugs they can have limbs hacked off and keep going, but most bullets that wound would just hit their chest, or be large splashes of plasma/melta/explosion, and most likely and kill them anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 04:08:43


I'll pluck you like a flower.

Tau Painting Blog [Updated: 12/27/15 Happy Dronecember!] : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662024.page#8088404

LVO List Data Base (Submit your list if you played! Growing All the Time!): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y28px3mgjeergdn/AADDpUf3n_u2QfkiYzDzHSh0a?dl=0 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Vespid feel like a sorry attempt to give Tau a different unit without making it different....yea....

They have anti-marine guns and good enough BS to use it, but the rate of fire + range + cost = theyre pathetic at anti-marine armor ESPECIALLY since half the damn dex is superb at dealing with marines, either through sheer numbers (my playstyle) or high AP spam via plasma suits/riptides.
Yet they have jumppacks, really high init, and hit and run. 3 rules that lead them to be a melee unit....but they have jack squat for strength, no armor or fnp, no melee weapon options, and crap leadership.

I dont get them. Theyre the only unit in the dex i literally cannot figure out how to use them properly. Ive used the fliers to a good outcome, and thats not exactly an easy thing to do lol. Vespid literally cant do anything another unit can do better and cheaper lol. Its not even FOC-related decision either since our FA is usually pretty empty while elite/heavy is typically full. They are so bad at both assault and shooting that using a FA instead of Elite or Heavy still doesnt justify them. And that was my thoughts when i try to use them, free up some Heavies by having a squad of Vespid instead of an Ionhead so i could bring some Sniper Drones. The drones did the Vespids' job three-fold.....just..what the hell lol

Really wish they would revamp them to be more melee. Even if they dont become godly, but just average, i'd be happy because of screening possibilities not to mention a unit for Farsight to join that actually WANTS HIM outside his deepstrike and massive suit squad rules. Farsight is so out of place i cant even play a theme'd army with him without ending up in a Farsight bomb...which i despise doing because its a dick move

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/24 05:00:33


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre




DFW area Texas - Rarely

Vespid are good in city fights, with dense terrain.

They can usually get good los blocking from enemy units, and with skilled flyer can jump around the difficult terrain without too much worry. Their mobility allows them to isolate enemy units, and shoot them. At least I think that is the theory anyway.

If I recall, they were added to the tau codex about the time cities of death came out...

I love the vespid, and agree...they are on the cusp of usefulness. I have a TON of them, and even did conversions to different wings, and love them - they are just terrible in normal games - I mainly use them in apoc, or dense city fights.

DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




You need more then them scoring for gun drones not to suck
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

"doktor_g's law of new 40k codicies" predicts that if the models are not owned by doktor_g, they will get a giant buff in the next codex.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/24 06:31:11


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 doktor_g wrote:
"doktor_g's law of new 40k codicies" predicts that if the models are not owned by doktor_g, they will get a giant buff in the next codex.


Talys' law of new 40k codicies states that if Talys is modelling that faction, the codex will get a giant nerf for every unit in the next codex

Case in point... my last 3 factions, in order, were: Grey Knights, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels. Bwahahahaaha

Okay, technically, I mess around with Eldar models, and they've never really been nerfed. But my Eldar don't get the kind of love that my fave factions get, so maybe that's why. There's some kind of inverse relationship thing going. As Talys' modelling efforts to a faction increases towards infinity, the power level of that faction decreases towards zero. At least nobody will ever accuse me of playing OP factions.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/24 07:01:42


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Wow, those kits in the OP look amazing. Well done GW!
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

I feel like the only person whos ever had luck with vespids. They always made their points back for me whenever I used them, hell usually the strain leader alone made its points back for me, my one strain leader has wracked up a kill tally (in melee no less) that includes multiple chapter masters, I dunno if I got lucky or what, but damn.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





chaos0xomega wrote:
I feel like the only person whos ever had luck with vespids. They always made their points back for me whenever I used them, hell usually the strain leader alone made its points back for me, my one strain leader has wracked up a kill tally (in melee no less) that includes multiple chapter masters, I dunno if I got lucky or what, but damn.


You must have the luckiest vespids around.

Down with Allies, Solo 2016! 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

No, just the strainleader. The rest of the unit usually dies right after they let off their first volley of shots (which I guess is to say they perform roughly average), but the strainleader... my god, its a monster. I look at its stats and I cant figure out how it can be, but it is.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in ca
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Winnipeg, MB

Some more close up shots of the new Tau Suit. It even comes pre-socketed and tells you what magnets to use.
[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.30.23 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.30.58 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.31.37 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.32.17 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.32.40 AM.png]

 Filename Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.33.01 AM.png [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 389 Kbytes

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.33.39 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.33.55 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.34.14 AM.png]

[Thumb - Screen Shot 2015-09-24 at 8.33.20 AM.png]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 13:58:02


   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

 Plains of War wrote:
Some more close up shots of the new Tau Suit. It even comes pre-socketed and tells you what magnets to use.

That's the forgeworld thread you're looking for.

Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




United States

chaos0xomega wrote:
I feel like the only person whos ever had luck with vespids. They always made their points back for me whenever I used them, hell usually the strain leader alone made its points back for me, my one strain leader has wracked up a kill tally (in melee no less) that includes multiple chapter masters, I dunno if I got lucky or what, but damn.


You are not alone here. Whenever I field them, they always make their points back and I feel like I can gift them the game MVP, most times. In my last outing, they deep struck in turn two, killed a unit of marines, claimed me some objectives (while blocking opponents), wrecked a furioso in one volley, and then claimed the last objective to save primary. With a markerlight boost, they are even more incredible.

   
Made in us
Sergeant Major




Fort Worthless, TX

Do you think that there will be other arms released for the Tau titan down the road? And I'm not talking about just the melta one. When I saw them selling arms separately I thought about the warhound titan.

GW - If it ain't broke, fix it until it is. 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

I'm expecting a big burst cannon thing. And maybe some more missiles.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Nevermind wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I feel like the only person whos ever had luck with vespids. They always made their points back for me whenever I used them, hell usually the strain leader alone made its points back for me, my one strain leader has wracked up a kill tally (in melee no less) that includes multiple chapter masters, I dunno if I got lucky or what, but damn.


You are not alone here. Whenever I field them, they always make their points back and I feel like I can gift them the game MVP, most times. In my last outing, they deep struck in turn two, killed a unit of marines, claimed me some objectives (while blocking opponents), wrecked a furioso in one volley, and then claimed the last objective to save primary. With a markerlight boost, they are even more incredible.


You're playing bad lists if they are doing well against them
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

I dont think the problem is a bad list when your strain leader consistently kills chapter masters in cc, thats really more luck, and possibly just a small sample size (a dozen or so games total as I havent played in almost 2 editions). The only time my strain leader didnt survive a game, he was barbecued by a IG sentinel with heavy flamer.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




United States

jakejackjake wrote:
 Nevermind wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I feel like the only person whos ever had luck with vespids. They always made their points back for me whenever I used them, hell usually the strain leader alone made its points back for me, my one strain leader has wracked up a kill tally (in melee no less) that includes multiple chapter masters, I dunno if I got lucky or what, but damn.


You are not alone here. Whenever I field them, they always make their points back and I feel like I can gift them the game MVP, most times. In my last outing, they deep struck in turn two, killed a unit of marines, claimed me some objectives (while blocking opponents), wrecked a furioso in one volley, and then claimed the last objective to save primary. With a markerlight boost, they are even more incredible.


You're playing bad lists if they are doing well against them


Not smart to make wide assumptions. Just because it's not meta does not make it bad.

   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Personally, I wish they would take Kroot and Vespids out of the codex, replace them with something else (Earth Hunters and Air jetpack respectively) and move them to another book calle Tau Auxillaries.

If that was done, we could see a whole line of Tau allies for different slots - Vespids, Kroot, Hrud, whatever GW wanted to throw in.

It never ends well 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut





Earth Hunters..? Earth caste Tau are builders and scientists, They dont go into war. The closest they get to going into war is landing on a mostly converted planet to build a Tau city and "recruitment" center. They dont have soldiers or fighters..
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





As someone who likes taken the side road when it comes to meta, I can agree that something not being meta doesn't make it bad. However, when you look at the numbers the Vespids posses, they're just bad.

The problem is that they're high point cost models, with rather squishy stats, come with short range weapons that have short range, only one shot, and the same strength as the most basic of Tau weapons. Granted, they gain AP3, but that's a really strange middle ground as most other units can compensate for that with the sheer volume of shots they can put out, or have a better AP that can actually take on things with a 2+ better. Now the other unique thing they have is the high initiative, but again, they only have one attack each and the same Strength as a Fire Warrior, while also having worse WS than a Kroot.

So yea, that's what makes them bad, not that they're not meta, but because you're paying for things that simply contradict each other. Had they had AP2, or better melee stats, or well anything, I could see some niche use for them, but as it stands they work against themselves more than anything.

I'll pluck you like a flower.

Tau Painting Blog [Updated: 12/27/15 Happy Dronecember!] : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662024.page#8088404

LVO List Data Base (Submit your list if you played! Growing All the Time!): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y28px3mgjeergdn/AADDpUf3n_u2QfkiYzDzHSh0a?dl=0 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Merellin wrote:
Earth Hunters..? Earth caste Tau are builders and scientists, They dont go into war. The closest they get to going into war is landing on a mostly converted planet to build a Tau city and "recruitment" center. They dont have soldiers or fighters..


Yeah, I know. It's time to change the fluff on that. While the Tau may have overall castes - and Fire are the warriors - I say have "elements of battle" that are grouped by elementals. Air would be skimmers and fliers, Fire would be fast and hard hitting units (primarily ranged), Earth would be tough/defensive units excelling at close combat (carbines & melee) and Water would be battlesuits like the Riptide, KV and bigger suits.

I just think its dumb to exclude three of the elements on castes that will never appear on the battlefield in what is a tabletop wargame.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 20:59:26


It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

 Stormonu wrote:
Merellin wrote:
Earth Hunters..? Earth caste Tau are builders and scientists, They dont go into war. The closest they get to going into war is landing on a mostly converted planet to build a Tau city and "recruitment" center. They dont have soldiers or fighters..


Yeah, I know. It's time to change the fluff on that. While the Tau may have overall castes - and Fire are the warriors - I say have "elements of battle" that are grouped by elementals. Air would be skimmers and fliers, Fire would be fast and hard hitting units (primarily ranged), Earth would be tough/defensive units excelling at close combat (carbines & melee) and Water would be battlesuits like the Riptide, KV and bigger suits.

I just think its dumb to exclude three of the elements on castes that will never appear on the battlefield in what is a tabletop wargame.


Why? It's world building. I'd rather there was background for Tau society as a whole, than either the whole Tau society being about war (we don't need more races like that) or just having background for the war aspects of the Tau. And the other Castes are present in some way, earth especially, all the equipment, suits, tanks etc are built by the earth caste.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Well, rather than continue down that road, what I'd like to see is the Vespid models replaced with Fire Warriors with some sort of jump/jet pack. Instead of the big blocky imperial engines either a gilder-like pack with jets or an otherwise small jetpack (something kind of like the one from James Bond, but a little less bulky).

Of course, I've also longed to see the IG roughriders replaced with dirt bikes and would rather the Taurox was a halftrack...

It never ends well 
   
 
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