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 Gamgee wrote:
Right but it puts out so much more dakka it's not even comparable. I don't need two units with that role. And if I did I would just fly 2 Y'vahrah.

The Y'vahra has to get within 12" to be effective, can be shot and assaulted normally, can not be the warlord, has different weapons designed to be efficient against different units, and is almost certainly more expensive points wise. I can definitely see my self making a themed list with a coldstar or two, an Y'vahra or two and a barracuda (or maybe even the codex flyers if they improve) or two. A sort of Tau sky warrior list.

Remoras would be fun too. Annoying as feth to kill considering their points cost (regular flyer jink+shrouded), but they can also provide marker support if need be. Pretty cool model as well.

So just to point out. The Flying Commander can fire 3 weapons a turn. 2 for FMC and +1 for a multi-tracker. It isn't really clear whether the weapons that come with the suit count against the 4 options from the Ranged/Signature/Support systems.

*Edit* I know, I'm an idiot

1) Does Coldstar give increased armor and toughness? Does it come with inbuilt support systems (shield, etc)?

2) Doubt the high output burst cannon is as good as a nova charged riptide gun. Not gonna happen.

3) Lacking the good FMC rules for 60 points is...meh.

I like the ColdStar. Like, a lot. MP and BC tend to benefit from high BS. MP and BC is not a bad loadout for a commander. Still take 2 systems, so lot of potential there. FMC defense with a 4+ invul makes for a pretty durable warlord, by Tau standards.

I really like how they solved the issue of drones being jet pack and the suit being FMC: THE DRONES DOCK BACK ONTO THE SUIT! Nifty. What a workable, elegant, and obvious solution. This gives me hope that the GW might finally getting good at writing rules. Too optimistic?

I also love how the reactions on the new units from old Tau players are "hmm, that's interesting, I'm going to start thinking of ways to make this work with my army" and from the new Tau players it seems to be "I CAN'T JUST SPAM IT ON THE TABLE AND KILL EVERYTHING?!?!? WAAAAAAA! I HATE YOU GW!"

Looks like we're going to have a fun, well balanced, codex and lots of cheap Tau second hand. Good time to play for the greater good.

vitae_drinker wrote:
3) Lacking the good FMC rules for 60 points is...meh.

How exactly is it lacking the good FMC rules? Fear and smash are worthless because you're Tau, and vector strike is marginal because you don't want to be so close to your targets. But you do get hard to hit and the movement distance, which I'd say are much better rules for Tau.

 Peregrine wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
3) Lacking the good FMC rules for 60 points is...meh.

How exactly is it lacking the good FMC rules? Fear and smash are worthless because you're Tau, and vector strike is marginal because you don't want to be so close to your targets. But you do get hard to hit and the movement distance, which I'd say are much better rules for Tau.

In addition, they very thematically fit for a suit that is meant for void combat.

How is fear worthless? How is smash worthless? How is vector strike marginal?

If they were such bad rules, why not include them in the price?

Your logic is lacking.

SinisterSamurai wrote:
I want to preface this next post: The source does not remember the points cost, and apparently doesn't have any info beyond these shots.

 Gamgee wrote:
Right but it puts out so much more dakka it's not even comparable. I don't need two units with that role. And if I did I would just fly 2 Y'vahrah.

And if it turns out that a high-yield burst cannon is basically a Nova-charge profile without the Gets Hot (R36"S6AP4 Heavy12 rending)?

I would still prefer the Y'vahrah and Riptide combo. Duh. However it would be viable at that point.

I agree we don't know its stats on its burst cannon, but I doubt it would be that impressive.

maceria wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
3) Lacking the good FMC rules for 60 points is...meh.

How exactly is it lacking the good FMC rules? Fear and smash are worthless because you're Tau, and vector strike is marginal because you don't want to be so close to your targets. But you do get hard to hit and the movement distance, which I'd say are much better rules for Tau.

In addition, they very thematically fit for a suit that is meant for void combat.

Except for the kinetic weapons that would send the crisis suit flying in the other direction when that burst weapon lets it rip without wasting fuel on stabilization. I'd say an energy weapon would thematically much better for a "space" suit.

vitae_drinker wrote:
How is fear worthless?

Because you do not want to be in melee, and even if you are it barely does anything.

How is smash worthless?

Because you want to shoot things, not punch them.

How is vector strike marginal?

Because it means going dangerously close to things that want to kill you instead of staying at a safe distance and shooting them.

If they were such bad rules, why not include them in the price?

Because they aren't fluffy for Tau. It has the FMC rules to represent its mobility, but it doesn't get the melee rules that most MCs/FMCs have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
I would still prefer the Y'vahrah and Riptide combo.

How exactly are you taking a Yvahra or Riptide as your HQ?

In your opinion. I've often had the Commander in combat. Sometimes it's unavoidable due to bad jump rolls vs an enemy rolling a good assault distance. Sometimes it's necessary to lock up an enemy unit that's more dangerous in shooting, or wipe out the last wound or two of a squad.

If Tau are the anime army, the commander rushing into combat to duel the enemy is pretty common in anime.

I don't want my HQ doing dumb things on the front lines where it might get killed and given a point to the enemy. Even more so if its on its own.

Woopdie do the Coldstar Commander can do all those things, but he has better things to be doing in my list (Buffmander ect) then being a poor man's Y'vahrah/Riptide mishmash.

Edit
The loss of smash is a big blow to it. I don't want to be in melee but if I do get tied up with something light smash is going to help. It's just a little extra utility cut out of FMC's rules/this things viability. Is it a game changer? No, but it has come in handy. Do I ever expect to use a knife in a gunfight in real life? Hell no, but I bring one just in case.

 warboss wrote:

maceria wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
3) Lacking the good FMC rules for 60 points is...meh.

How exactly is it lacking the good FMC rules? Fear and smash are worthless because you're Tau, and vector strike is marginal because you don't want to be so close to your targets. But you do get hard to hit and the movement distance, which I'd say are much better rules for Tau.

In addition, they very thematically fit for a suit that is meant for void combat.

Except for the kinetic weapons that would send the crisis suit flying in the other direction when that burst weapon lets it rip without wasting fuel on stabilization. I'd say an energy weapon would thematically much better for a "space" suit.

Ever fired a missile or rocket? No recoil if the launcher is designed right, as the gases just escape out the back of the launcher tube. Burst cannons... well, just maybe don't use that until your feet are mag-locked onto a space-hulks outer hull, or correct with jets afterward. Which the ColdStar clearly can, because its jets are good enough to make it a FMC.

Burst cannons are energy weapons, guys. They're pulse Gatling weapons.

Frankly, a Fusion cutter sort of weapon seems like a no-brainer for a void-capable battlesuit, given they'll need some way to get into their targets (and I don't think a bog-standard MP is going to scratch an Imperium vessel's paint, let alone hull).

Yeah, a FB and BC for boarding actions makes the most sense.

It's stuck with only its new burst gun and a missile pod. Can't change it's weapons from what we can see.

You would think fusion weaponry of some kind would make sense as you point out, but then again this is GW. I'm mostly unimpressed by the new Tau stuff so far. Barring the XV95 that is, and I can always hope the formations are good.

A lot of people seem to be overlooking the price of the guns in the coldstar, you are not just paying for FMC you are also getting 30+points worth of guns too (I'm assuming the souped up burst cannon is worth more than the regular). As peregrine has said, the best part of being a FMC is being immune to close combat, increased speed, and of course only being snapshot (making you immune to blasts and templates). It's definitely worth the cost.

 Gamgee wrote:
(Buffmander ect)

We don't know if this will still exist.

Didnt even notice the Coldstar commander had no weapon variation options.
Thats annoying. I'd rather have a Plasma instead of Bursts. Willing to bet that burst is just higher RoF, same otherwise.

Also to the people saying one failed grounding test hes toast - youre forgetting in 7th they DID actually make that rule a lot less painful. They just shafted assaulting FMCs, while non-assaulty FMCs got buffed quite nicely.

True but it seems unlikely it would be removed, though it could see extensive changes.

Personally, I see the Coldstar as a second HQ choice. Run a standard Commander as a Mark'O or a buffmander, and use the Coldstar as a harassment unit. A FMC battlesuit, even with a MP and a super BC would be extremely useful, especially when you add a Shield Generator and Stim Injector (plus signature systems like Iridium armor if we can). And that's not counting any kind of formation we get using a Coldstar (Coldstar with a homing beacon plus deepstriking Crisis Suits anyone?)

As a solo HQ choice? Outside of low points games, maybe not, the Coldstar is blatantly an offensive harassment unit. As a second HQ choice or through the Tau decurion? Abso-freaking-lutely, this guy is gonna have a place in my lists, both CAD and (hopefully) Decurion.

vitae_drinker wrote:
In your opinion. I've often had the Commander in combat. Sometimes it's unavoidable due to bad jump rolls vs an enemy rolling a good assault distance. Sometimes it's necessary to lock up an enemy unit that's more dangerous in shooting, or wipe out the last wound or two of a squad.

It's an FMC. You have to get into a position to charge AND have it fail the grounding roll before you can charge it.

If Tau are the anime army, the commander rushing into combat to duel the enemy is pretty common in anime.

Tau are not just an anime army. They do NOT need idiotic anime cliches about melee combat with giant robots.

Wow, way to look right past everything I said, Peregrine. But thanks for showing us the true way, buddy.

vitae_drinker wrote:
Burst cannons are energy weapons, guys. They're pulse Gatling weapons.

Nevermind then. Thanks for the correction.

GI_Redshirt wrote:Personally, I see the Coldstar as a second HQ choice. Run a standard Commander as a Mark'O or a buffmander, and use the Coldstar as a harassment unit. A FMC battlesuit, even with a MP and a super BC would be extremely useful, especially when you add a Shield Generator and Stim Injector (plus signature systems like Iridium armor if we can). ....

Actually we already know we cant do that. Unless they change it, its access to signature systems are revoked with the Coldstar suit because it lists off all of its options over again except signature systems and only 2 support since it has stock weapons.
Which blows, admittedly.

 warboss wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
Burst cannons are energy weapons, guys. They're pulse Gatling weapons.

Nevermind then. Thanks for the correction.

Ehhhh, they fire plasma. Lots of high velocity, low mass, not-as-hot, plasma rounds. Pulse gattling guns it a great description.

Thing is, EVERYTHING will impart reactive forces onto the the firer. Lasers, beams of fusion exhaust, etc. Missiles would be less so, but the stream of propellants is likely to still hit the firer when expanding out the back, imparting some energy.

It would be nice if there were weapon options. But eh. I'll take the FMC hard to hit.

And more things about the Coldstar:

1) Lacking previously mentioned rules.
2) It will be instakilled on a failed grounding test if doesn't have a shield or Coldstar suit gives it +1 toughness.
3) it does gain jink, which is not bad, though questionably useful.
4) fixed weapon options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

maceria wrote:

 warboss wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
Burst cannons are energy weapons, guys. They're pulse Gatling weapons.

Nevermind then. Thanks for the correction.

Ehhhh, they fire plasma. Lots of high velocity, low mass, not-as-hot, plasma rounds. Pulse gattling guns it a great description.

Thing is, EVERYTHING will impart reactive forces onto the the firer. Lasers, beams of fusion exhaust, etc. Missiles would be less so, but the stream of propellants is likely to still hit the firer when expanding out the back, imparting some energy.

It would be nice if there were weapon options. But eh. I'll take the FMC hard to hit.

Yes, but the thrust of a directed energy weapon is so minor as to be ignorable in most instances. It's about the effect of an ion thruster. Lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:

GI_Redshirt wrote:Personally, I see the Coldstar as a second HQ choice. Run a standard Commander as a Mark'O or a buffmander, and use the Coldstar as a harassment unit. A FMC battlesuit, even with a MP and a super BC would be extremely useful, especially when you add a Shield Generator and Stim Injector (plus signature systems like Iridium armor if we can). ....

Actually we already know we cant do that. Unless they change it, its access to signature systems are revoked with the Coldstar suit because it lists off all of its options over again except signature systems and only 2 support since it has stock weapons.
Which blows, admittedly.

Well, that's upsetting. Doesn't change my opinion on it though. This guy is a harassment unit, hunting troops units and light vehicles while scaring your opponent. You say FMC, any opponent is gonna focus it down immediately. At the very least, as a second HQ choice, it will draw some fire that it can avoid using swooping and jink, plus support systems. This guy will have his uses, while he may not be warlord material, I can definitely make use of this guy, if not else than for fun.