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I just remember doing the math on it, and once you subtract the six missiles on the Skyray it's like you're valuing the Hammer Head Rail Gun at 58pts? That's just silly since it won't even get that many shots during the course of the game, and doesn't have the burst potential of the Skyray, not to mention how inferior its secondary systems are as you don't get a Markerlight platform and most of the time you won't shoot the drones or SMS on it.

At least giving it a railgun and two heavy rail rifles gives it three potential shots, that's comparable to the Predator (at least how it was in 3rd when I played it) where it could have two lasconnon side arms and one twinlinked lascannon turret for the same points as a Hammer Head, where the Hammer head has weaker side arms, but a stronger main gun at the expense of not being twinlinked.

It's just like why is the Hammerhead so massively boring when they can make it so awesome without making it overly powerful? Would it really be broken with 3 pseudo-lascannon shots at 125 points?

If by black from all angles you mean the edges, try what i usually do. Jet black, get a larger than normal brush (large as you can fit in the area) and drybrush a medium gray. Its hard to see in my pics because i really only do it on the legs but it really makes the edges pop out.
I do a lot of shortcuts in my painting lol. My aim is somewhere between table-top quality and competitive painting. Awesome at a distance, still decent up close but not amazing.

That's about where I'm at. I generally do a base coat of Abaddon Black, then mix that with some Teclis Blue to do a second coat on anything but the areas I want for black lining. After that I over the edges with some Abaddon Black mixed with white. It gives it a really nice cell shaded look when viewed close up, but looking at it from a distance makes it look too dark, but I'm also near sighted so that might be part of it.

The Hammerhead has a bigger problem than just being overcosted. It's weapon is ineffective in the current landscape. The vehicle damage table rewards medium-strength high-rof weapons. Single powerful shots that aren't D-strength are not nearly as effective.

I'm not saying that the Hammerhead should get a D-weapon, as we need less of those in the game, not more. The Hammerhead just needs to be tweaked and points cost and its Railgun improved so it's more versatile against more targets, not just trying to plink a single hull point or wound off vehicles.

Also, your standard Tri-Las Predator costs, 140 points, not 125.

Armourbane could be good. It would make it the ultimate in anti-vehicle, without powering it up too much on any other front. You might need to look at pricings, but it would make it a worthwhile choice for anti-vehicle.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I just remember doing the math on it, and once you subtract the six missiles on the Skyray it's like you're valuing the Hammer Head Rail Gun at 58pts? That's just silly since it won't even get that many shots during the course of the game, and doesn't have the burst potential of the Skyray, not to mention how inferior its secondary systems are as you don't get a Markerlight platform and most of the time you won't shoot the drones or SMS on it.

At least giving it a railgun and two heavy rail rifles gives it three potential shots, that's comparable to the Predator (at least how it was in 3rd when I played it) where it could have two lasconnon side arms and one twinlinked lascannon turret for the same points as a Hammer Head, where the Hammer head has weaker side arms, but a stronger main gun at the expense of not being twinlinked.

It's just like why is the Hammerhead so massively boring when they can make it so awesome without making it overly powerful? Would it really be broken with 3 pseudo-lascannon shots at 125 points?

When the Hammerhead first came out, it was awesome. S10 main gun, SMS system, multitracker and target lock. You got your rail shot at a prime target then the SMS just fired off at anything slightly squishy within 24" and you didn't even have to see them, all the time moving 6+ inches so you got the skimmers moving fast bonus. The tank was a beast. I personally used two hammerheads and a unit of two broadsides. Enemy armor was never an issue and the S10 was a selling point of the Tau army. It was a strength. But then as the game powercreep moved forward, more S10 started showing up in other codexs all over the place. The Hammerhead and more importantly the S10 identity of the Tau started to feel less and less unique after every other codex was released. Then the last codex was dropped and the most S10 shots you could put on the field was 3. Seriously... 3. 3 single shots on a model that was made ridiculously fragile with hull points.

Thus we have the fall of the Hammerhead. I'm hoping GW will bring them back to their full glory, but I seriously doubt it. I fully expect this new codex to be a complete disappointment for my personal chosen Tau play style.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Also, your standard Tri-Las Predator costs, 140 points, not 125.

Sure, but the Tri-Las Predator has +1 strength on two of the shots, and -1 strength on one shot, but it's twinlinked. Additionally, it's still not that good, so shedding 15pts and giving it the jink benefits in the Tau army wouldn't really hurt.

 Jayden63 wrote:


When the Hammerhead first came out, it was awesome. S10 main gun, SMS system, multitracker and target lock. You got your rail shot at a prime target then the SMS just fired off at anything slightly squishy within 24" and you didn't even have to see them, all the time moving 6+ inches so you got the skimmers moving fast bonus. The tank was a beast. I personally used two hammerheads and a unit of two broadsides. Enemy armor was never an issue and the S10 was a selling point of the Tau army. It was a strength. But then as the game powercreep moved forward, more S10 started showing up in other codexs all over the place. The Hammerhead and more importantly the S10 identity of the Tau started to feel less and less unique after every other codex was released. Then the last codex was dropped and the most S10 shots you could put on the field was 3. Seriously... 3. 3 single shots on a model that was made ridiculously fragile with hull points.

Thus we have the fall of the Hammerhead. I'm hoping GW will bring them back to their full glory, but I seriously doubt it. I fully expect this new codex to be a complete disappointment for my personal chosen Tau play style.

I don't know, even in third edition I hated seeing one shot units, even if they sometimes could do a lot of damage, then again I have terrible luck when rolling dice, so more shots is usually better.

I think the new codex looks good so far, it provides a lot of options in the new units as I like the Ghostkeel a lot more than Broadsides, though the Stormsurge I'm indifferent about. I just hope they don't change the Skyray but make the Hammerhead cost less, or change it up in the way I wanted, though the former is far more likely than the latter. The fortification can be pretty cool, as long as the points on it don't suck.

Now I just want to see the following changes:

- Vespids being reworked to be interesting.
- Piranha given a markerlight option to be very good as opposed to marginal. It would also give you more reason to take Pathfinder "special weapon" squads as opposed to dedicated markerlights.
- Farsight Marksmen having target lock at the very least as now they don't make any sense.
- Kroot units changed to make sense (formations that get a free Krootox per unit of Kroot and then an additional free one per five Kroot in the squad you take, preferably in their own unit as opposed to being forced into the Kroot unit)
- Commander Shadowsun to be awesome.
- Stealthsuits to be moved to troops or changed to be more viable.
- Breachers to have a better Devilfish in that it cost less points.

And that's not to say that everything should just be buffed, rather that's the stuff I can see being improved. Increasing points on EWO, making Markerlights slightly weaker (-1 cover per Marker token as opposed to -all at 2), and riptide being slightly more expensive are possible changes in the negative.

I want to see hammerheads be good and railguns in general be useful.

I agree with everything your saying Tinkrr.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Armourbane could be good. It would make it the ultimate in anti-vehicle, without powering it up too much on any other front. You might need to look at pricings, but it would make it a worthwhile choice for anti-vehicle.

Armour Bane would be good, maybe a bit strong, Makng it ordnance would also work

Why not both! LOL. Imagine the tears.

The HRR should be brought up to STR 9's as well to maake them more viable. Also broadsides need relentless or an upgrade so they can be.

I could seriously see them making all Rail weapons armourbane, or ordenance and giving Broadsides slow and purposeful (i cant see those big suits running very easily otherwise id say relentless too)...
Broadsides Str9 Ordnance tank hunter, would like them crack armour 14 reliably, and if i really wana wish list, make the HRR ordance 2 id cry tears of joy

How about expensive rail rifles on Crisis Suits, am I right?

But yea, if I have good ideas when I'm not that smart, I'm sure GW could come up with just as good ideas, especially when they say they don't intend to balance things. I just don't get it.

Crisis suits that have rail rifles? i think those are called broadsides XD

Every time I've heard someone talk about the Stormsurge like 5+ people now all I hear is this as a rough approximation.

Oh it got bad rolls and died on turn two. Oh it didn't reach its full potential and died on turn 2. Oh I killed it easy with grab drops. It's very underwhelming. Or it died too fast to use its full potential power. Or I got bad rolls so I don't know how good it will actually be.

Most of them insist its very balanced because it didn't do much and died to their armies. Naturally.

All I hear is suck suck suck. :( Why did you do this to us GW. Why? All we wanted was a half decent lord of war option. I didn't need anything OP, but did I need a death sentence?

Nope.

 Girrrrrrrrrrr wrote:
Crisis suits that have rail rifles? i think those are called broadsides XD

Really, I've never seen anything like that in a tau army?

 Girrrrrrrrrrr wrote:
Crisis suits that have rail rifles? i think those are called broadsides XD

Nah, you're thinking of Heavy Rail Rifles. The regular Rail Rifles are something pathfinders can take and are identical to Plasma Rifles, except they have +6 inches of range, and Ap 1 instead of AP 2... They're the same points on the Pathfinders as a Plasma Rifle for a Crisis Suit, so just up the points a little and it should be fine.

Edit: Heck make them an upgrade to Plasma Rifles, so that you can only have one per suit. Then you'll have more triple shots, at +3 inches of range, where two are stronger, while one is still a Plasma shot. You could still get quad shots with two being beefed up versions for +5 points or whatever.

Interestingly, the GW site is down for maintenance just now. So maybe the Tidewall kit isn't completely sold out?

The problem with Tau vehicles (in general, though the Skyray is the exception due to its included seeker missiles) is that they pay so much for being skimmers that they are grossly overcosted. Compare a Devilfish vs a Rhino, for instance.

A Rhino is 11/11/10 3 HP w/ BS 4 Stormbolter, searchlight, and smoke launchers, and the ability to repair immobilized, has two fire points, but may only carry 10 models. 35 points.

A Devilfish is 12/11/10 3 HP w/ BS 3 Burst Cannon and two BS 2 gun drones. Skimmer. Can carry 12 models. 80 points.

Should the Devilfish be more than a Rhino? I think you could make an argument for that. More than double? Heck no. 5-10 points more? Yeah, I could see that. 15 points more? Now I think you're pushing it.

Now, expand that over to the Hammerhead. It's currently 125 points. If you dropped it to around 100 with included submunitions and with an Ordnance 1, TL main gun it would see play more.

But to be fair, GW rates a TL burst cannon upgrade as the same points as TL SMS as two gun drones on a Hammerhead, but charges 10 points on a Devilfish.

Better armour, survivability, movement and mobility, better weaponry, more capacity, and you want it to be only 5-10 points more?

Could you pass me whatever you are smoking, good sir? It should be at least double, considering it gets a 4+ jink and can be on your opponents deployment line turn 1.

And a hammerhead that's twin linked, comes with submunitions, and make it ordnance, and cheaper? Christ. I could see 125 and coming with submunitions being a justifiable buff, but what you are saying is 'let's make the hammerhead super amazing with its S10 AP1 gun!'

Some Tau players.

Honestly, that annoys me so much. If they made it two burst cannons it would be a legitimate trade-off, but currently, as their is literally no price difference, the SMS is just better.

Although I don't think the DF should be that cheap 65-75 points or so would be about right. Or, at the very least, enough to not make the IG players explode in anger.

Of course, FW vs Tactical Marines have been a joke, too. For 5 points you get +2 BS, +1 WS, +1 S, +1 T, +2 I, +1 Ld, and a 3+ SV. SM get a Bolt Pistol (for an assault shot and CCW), Frag and Krak grenades vs photon grenades, ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, and Combat Squads vs Supporting Fire. Oh, and can buy upgrades and special & heavy weapons. And drop pods. The only real advantage the FW had is a +1 S gun and markerlights (which are kinda pricey and fragile, generally).

Come on guys, let's not turn this into tau vs SM.

It's a legitimate comparison. We're talking points vs points, and SM are the baseline. And honestly, yes 100-110 points is about where a Hammerhead should go. Look at a predator with a TL lascannon. It also gets searchlight, and smoke launchers included for 100 points. So the Hammerhead should be slightly more, but not much, than that with the included changes.

We got a biggie folks. Some sort of new Tau goodie from FW. What could it be? Looks like an auxiliary to me. An attentive spotter at ATT posted it.



It looks like fast attack. He also speculates it is a demiurge (just a guess from the looks of it). Also you can see either the new alien or Tau on top of the Stormsurge. Could be those Earth Caste engineers they mentioned wanting to make up top, but not the thing on the ground.

I can't wait to see what new units we get in our next FW book alleged to be admech vs tau.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Honestly, that annoys me so much. If they made it two burst cannons it would be a legitimate trade-off, but currently, as their is literally no price difference, the SMS is just better.

Although I don't think the DF should be that cheap 65-75 points or so would be about right. Or, at the very least, enough to not make the IG players explode in anger.

Yeah, but a Chimera gets a lot of stuff included in its 65 points. The Devilfish should definitely be no more than a Chimera, maybe even a bit cheaper. Yes, being a skimmer is good, but is it 15-20 points good? Vs two decent weapon systems, searchlight, smoke launchers, amphibious (admittedly meh), lasgun arrays, and two fire points (or 1 heavy weapons team)... I think that's a hard argument to make. 50ish is where the Devilfish should fall.

If these are auxiliaries I'm buying them ASAP!!

I can't make out gak in that tiny picture. It looks like crew at ease on the Stormsurge.

Look at its feet. What are those bike things on its base?

It could be anything, though one is a double-seater.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, I see now.

Ooh, I realy hope we get dermiurg. They are, by far, my favorite allied race, even more so than tau. And they are extremly technologically advanced too, heck, the tau even based their ion tech on demiurg mining lances.

How much you wanna bet those are demiurg mining lasers on the front of those bikes and they hurt... a lot. Even if its just Tau riding their vehicles it looks too... untau to be a tau vehicle.

Edit
Another poster claims they are just conversions, but I don't know. I'm not convinced. It looks like its a new model. With us allegedly up for a new FW book soon it only makes sense this could be legit. I hope we can get better confirmation on if it is or isn't.

The single bike rider definitely looks like a Tau. The dude under the stormsurge leg and on the right missile breast... Don't.