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Also Tau will be firing back.

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet by some people must like the new Ethereal as the Infiltration Cadre is sold out on the uk and Japanese sites. Irrespective of how the codex turns out, it looks like the Tau are going to be a hit for GW again. I wonder if this will be enough to offset the AOS failure. I am certain it is not a coincidence that the Tau are coming out now, and space marines came out just before AOS

Nah they had this all lined up months in advance. Before Sigmar was even out.

That is what I meant. They where hedging their bets. Two well known best sellers and one big risk.

Frozocrone wrote:No please do, I love the feeling of embarassment when I'm wrong Just looked it up and it is as Sinister Samurai said, my bad.
That said, the Riptide and co get a cover save from it as they are MC/GC and due to the wonky rules regarding them (ie a toe in ruins for a 4+) there is no reason why they don't get a 4+ from being behind it.

It still has to stay together. I wasn't entirely wrong.

Oh sorry if I my wording was a little unclear, the tongue in cheek "I told you so part" was directed at everyone and not just you regarding the whole terrain-moving thing. You weren't majorly wrong or anything, just a few points (the cover save bonus) we had to address so there was no confusion I'm not exactly sure myself how it works with monstrous creatures/gargantuan creatures with regards to defence lines, usually they just need a toe in cover to get a save but defence lines might work differently. If they only need to be standing on/in the Tidewall Rampart then that makes it so darned good for the Stormsurge in particular.

Actually that's something I should bring up for everyone to weigh in on; an Aegis Defence Line has no "piece" that models stand on, they have to stand behind the terrain. The Tidewall Rampart on the other hand is designed for models to stand on it. How does this work with regards to rules for cover saves, does a Monstrous/Gargantuan Creature with part of its base (normally this allows a cover save) on the Tidewall Rampart (the actual elevated parts you are supposed to stand on) get a cover save automatically? I can't think of another precedent so some clarification would be most welcome, cheers.

jakejackjake wrote:I agree I said the same thing to my friend the other day if devilfish and just saw the cyclic ion raker... it's okay. I can see the use now just hard to see how it can be better than broadsides it's less shots per pt and you basically always get them with tankhunter. We'll see. Could be awesome, but I don't really do 24" on Tau. My other armies I do but... I tend to try to guarantee as many shots fired without return fire as possible with Tau by deployment and kiting well. The jetpack nature could compensate we'll see. If it's T5 I'll be a hard sell. Since broadsides should be anyway, but formation rules really could make a big difference

The main draw of the Ghostkeel is its durability, there aren't many units in the game that are so unbelievably resistant to shooting attacks; nothing compares for 130 points. The main things that kill Riptides just bounce harmlessly off of Ghostkeels.

Ghostkeels offer more raw STR 7 attacks than HYMP's and are more durable and mobile. I can definitely see a role for them.

Caederes wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:No please do, I love the feeling of embarassment when I'm wrong Just looked it up and it is as Sinister Samurai said, my bad.
That said, the Riptide and co get a cover save from it as they are MC/GC and due to the wonky rules regarding them (ie a toe in ruins for a 4+) there is no reason why they don't get a 4+ from being behind it.

It still has to stay together. I wasn't entirely wrong.

Oh sorry if I my wording was a little unclear, the tongue in cheek "I told you so part" was directed at everyone and not just you regarding the whole terrain-moving thing. You weren't majorly wrong or anything, just a few points (the cover save bonus) we had to address so there was no confusion I'm not exactly sure myself how it works with monstrous creatures/gargantuan creatures with regards to defence lines, usually they just need a toe in cover to get a save but defence lines might work differently. If they only need to be standing on/in the Tidewall Rampart then that makes it so darned good for the Stormsurge in particular.

Actually that's something I should bring up for everyone to weigh in on; an Aegis Defence Line has no "piece" that models stand on, they have to stand behind the terrain. The Tidewall Rampart on the other hand is designed for models to stand on it. How does this work with regards to rules for cover saves, does a Monstrous/Gargantuan Creature with part of its base (normally this allows a cover save) on the Tidewall Rampart (the actual elevated parts you are supposed to stand on) get a cover save automatically? I can't think of another precedent so some clarification would be most welcome, cheers.

They get the cover save based on the rules for the terrain they are in. if they put a toe in ruins then they get a cover save regardless of whether 25% is covered because the rule for ruins specifies that it doesn't require 25% to be hidden. The tau wall is battlefield debris defense line, so a model needs to be in cover behind it to get the save. To be in cover you need at least 25% of the model hidden unless specifically changed by the terrain rule. Someone reported that the shield wall is tall enough, but we will have to wait and see till someone gets both for comparison to know for sure.

I think GW forgot how they're game works when they wrote the rules for this. Maybe someone in their shipping department wrote them. It should be a building. Right now how do you determine what models are on it when it moves. Like if I put a portion of the base of my broadside on it does it count?

It also sticks out far in front and behind. This matters because if you are in base contact with it and the enemy gets into base contact with the wall opposite you it counts as being in base to base contact with them, but you're actually pretty far apart. Also where does the "base contact" with the wall begin, at the very edge of the tau side with the walkway? In some ways the current rules make it easier to end up in CC when using this. it really should of been a building

@Trystis That's how I thought it should work, that clears it up cheers.

Hey guys, put Darkstrider on the Gunrig and have him shoot the Railgun. If he is allowed to man it and his Structural Analyzer doesn't change, he gets; a Ballistic Skill 5 twin-linked S10 AP1 shot that re-rolls to-wound against monstrous creatures, reduces their Toughness by 1 (which affects Instant Death as well) and thus allows him to inflict Instant Death on Toughness 6 models.

Now that sounds awesome. I even have Darkstrider since the start of my Tau army and haven't used him except as a cool stand in for a Firewarrior.

Caederes wrote:
@Trystis That's how I thought it should work, that clears it up cheers.

Hey guys, put Darkstrider on the Gunrig and have him shoot the Railgun. If he is allowed to man it and his Structural Analyzer doesn't change, he gets; a Ballistic Skill 5 twin-linked S10 AP1 shot that re-rolls to-wound against monstrous creatures, reduces their Toughness by 1 (which affects Instant Death as well) and thus allows him to inflict Instant Death on Toughness 6 models.

I'm foggy on the rules, but you may not want to have anyone from a unit shoot the gun because they might all have to fire at the same target. Its pretty rare that I would want to shoot fire warriors and a rail gun at the same thing. If you use Darkstrider you can have him on his own operating the gun. Like I said I'm foggy on these rules though.

The Darkstrider trick is purely for monster-hunting, ergo the Fire Warriors aren't exactly wasted there. Otherwise you would just a Fireblade (he has Split Fire if I'm not mistaken) or a regular Fire Warrior.

How do you determine what models are on it? They're standing on it. Did you look at the model? It's got walkways behind the forcefield line and big standing area inside the platforms. Per the BRB, during game setup you and your opponent determine if the sloped part of the ramparts are acceptable for putting models on. Just like you need to determine if models can stand on parapets (the little walls on top of buildings).

Defense line mechanics are not difficult.

And yes, that does make it slightly easier to get into base contact, distance wise, for a charge. It also gives you a more durable firing position, and forces the enemy to charge through cover. Cover that you can move around where you want to.

I can see no advantage in rules clarity from making it a building.

Actually just realized, those poor, poor Tyranids. Skyrays murder Flying Hive Tyrants, then shoot Networked Markerlights at other FHTs in subsequent turns. Darkstrider/unit joined by Darkstrider benefits from Skyfire Markerlights to raise Ballistic Skill and easily get a hit on marked up FHT, proceeds to kill it with no rebuttal (instant Death from S10 against T5 due to Structural Analyzer) if they also have Ignores Cover from enough tokens. Yikes. Better hope you kill his unit quickly.

With the tidewall, suddenly having the Stormsurge remain "stationary" no longer becomes a problem. I just didn't expect the problem to be solved with surfboards. I guess I'm going to start hearing Eureka 7 jokes when the Stormsurge and Tidewall are deployed together to go along with the Gundam jokes.

Except the storm surge doesn't fit on the tide wall so apparently you need to your opponents permission to use it like that. Because defense line mechanics are not difficult.

Anyone in the UK know what day and time the new stuff goes up on the GW websites nowadays ?

I was desperate to get some of that scenery for my bros birthday, but it was gone by the time i looked at 7pm, which I thought was the time it all goes up.

Trystis wrote:
Except the storm surge doesn't fit on the tide wall so apparently you need to your opponents permission to use it like that. Because defense line mechanics are not difficult.

The Tidewall has more components than just the shieldlines. I don't see why the Stormsurge can't stand on the Droneport/extra unnamed platform, which can also still move and doesn't need to be attached to the line if you buy an extra.

Better idea(?), have the Stormsurge control a Gunrig so it can move and shoot the twin-linked railgun twice?

 Nilok wrote:

Trystis wrote:
Except the storm surge doesn't fit on the tide wall so apparently you need to your opponents permission to use it like that. Because defense line mechanics are not difficult.

The Tidewall has more components than just the shieldlines. I don't see why the Stormsurge can't stand on the Droneport/extra unnamed platform, which can also still move and doesn't need to be attached to the line if you buy an extra.

Better idea(?), have the Stormsurge control a Gunrig so it can move and shoot the twin-linked railgun twice?

Oh wow, provided GMCs are allowed to shoot all weapons in your area (which is usually the case and I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE IN THIS THREAD) you can say shoot all of its guns except for one Destroyer Missile/the fourth weapon system and fire the Gunrig and the rest of its guns twice.

Garfy from Tale of Painters has some more pics from the event. There's some close-ups of the Tau conversions I haven't seen posted yet, and the new crisis suits were apparently hiding in the diorama somewhere.

lol, there's even a cool pic of a knight that's been blown to bits, and a crisis suit getting punched in the face by a kastelan robot.

Hi and pleased to join you during these Tau releases.

Following info was posted on Warseer by Archibald_TK. So before one of the mods there goes berserk and burns everything because there are points displayed I'm copying it in a safe place, namely here:

- Commander (apparently with a drone) - 40€, 30£, 50$
- Crisis Battelsuits (3 suits + 6 drones) - 60€, 45£, 75$
- Drones (2 drones) - 9€, 7.7£, 12$
- Warzone Damocles: Kauyon (campaign book) - 60€, 45£, 74$
- Codex Tau (128p) - 39€, 30£, 49.5$
- Tau cards, Raven Guard! cards, also White Scars cards!! for some reason - each 10.5€, 8£, 13.5$

- Commander is 85pts base. Coldstar has no particular rules compared to a Crisis so no +1T sorry. The high yield canon is crap (or should I say crap for that model), 18" S5 AP5 Assault6 TL.
- Crisis suits kit contain 4 of each weapon (except only 3 missiles). Iridium armor is still in the Codex, you can build one of such suits per kit (it the red one we saw in the pictures).
- Kauyon's pictures show two formations: the awesome Shadowstrike Kill Team (2-4 Scouts + 1-5 Vanguards, you chose to fail or succeed reserve rolls for the Vanguards, they don't scatter within 9" of the scouts, they can charge the turn they DS) and Pinion Battle Demi-Company (like a demi company but with scouts that help reserves by accompanying other units to allow them to do a flank attack and can give ignore cover to an unit with 9")
- Codex pictures show 80pts Devilfish and 44pts Pathfinders (minimum unit size of 4)

He's not a rumour guy but a WD guy, acceptable accuracy I'd say. But it's hard to mess up when you're reading a book in front of you I suppose :p

Hahahaha, the Shadowstrike Kill Team is basically what I've got right now for my Raptors Chapter.

I dont see this fortification formation as being a big deal since I don't think there is a single tournament that allows "networks" of terrain. The novelty will wear off pretty quickly when you realize that you're playing against a huge piece of indestructible terrain (and there is a reason almost no one plays with multiple section fortifications, it's not like Tau is the first to get such an option).

The railgun is really good tho but the rest of the rules are very wonky and show me GW still doesn't understand their own system.

What is the point in giving Tau charge after DS lol.

Caederes wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

The Tidewall has more components than just the shieldlines. I don't see why the Stormsurge can't stand on the Droneport/extra unnamed platform, which can also still move and doesn't need to be attached to the line if you buy an extra.

Better idea(?), have the Stormsurge control a Gunrig so it can move and shoot the twin-linked railgun twice?

Oh wow, provided GMCs are allowed to shoot all weapons in your area (which is usually the case and I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE IN THIS THREAD) you can say shoot all of its guns except for one Destroyer Missile/the fourth weapon system and fire the Gunrig and the rest of its guns twice.

Can a model normally fire an emplacement as well as its other weapons, or is it an "instead of its other weapons" type clause? Also how the Stormsurge is worded in the codex might be an issue, the "doesn't count as moving but it still moved so therefore it can't x" argument might come up again. If it all checks out though...

"HOVER ME CLOSE SO I CAN GIANT SHOTGUN THEM!"

Another thing im wondering are hover drones actually a thing?, like wargear type

Im thinking a fireblade could zip between squads and really boost firepower when needed

Caederes wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
[quote=Trystis 651154 8199390 null

Oh wow, provided GMCs are allowed to shoot all weapons in your area (which is usually the case and I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE IN THIS THREAD) you can say shoot all of its guns except for one Destroyer Missile/the fourth weapon system and fire the Gunrig and the rest of its guns twice.

At the open day they stated they were going to amend rules so that GMCs can fire all weapons they have.

I have to say every time something entices me away from Warmachine, GW does their best to feth it up. Cool looking Tau (an army I've tried to start since they first came out in 2001)? Check. Way too expensive, just because? Check (no surprise). Terrain piece that sells out in 10 minutes so people who want to buy it, can't buy it? Check.

This company is just insane at this point.

WayneTheGame wrote:
I have to say every time something entices me away from Warmachine, GW does their best to feth it up. Cool looking Tau (an army I've tried to start since they first came out in 2001)? Check. Way too expensive, just because? Check (no surprise). Terrain piece that sells out in 10 minutes so people who want to buy it, can't buy it? Check.

This company is just insane at this point.

The hh game will sell out in minutes I bet you. It's fine because I don't care. Though from what I'm hearing about the cult box vs (I'm not sure who now) might be in 2 parts and its something ill want and if that sells out ill be kinda irritated

Nilok wrote:With the tidewall, suddenly having the Stormsurge remain "stationary" no longer becomes a problem. I just didn't expect the problem to be solved with surfboards. I guess I'm going to start hearing Eureka 7 jokes when the Stormsurge and Tidewall are deployed together to go along with the Gundam jokes.

Tidewall let the model to be considered stationary to fire, but the model moved in the move phase (when the tidewall moved). So no, I don't see anchored Stormsurges, FW drone turrets or DS8 turrets being usable with this thing.
But you can hide the stormsurge/Tau'nar/Riptide behind the gun rig to get a 4+ cover

Wulfson_40K wrote:The high yield canon is crap (or should I say crap for that model), 18" S5 AP5 Assault6 TL.
- Codex pictures show 80pts Devilfish

So I'm not fielding Coldstar and Devilfish keeps being too expensive. Hope it got something good to justify its cost.

MoD_Legion wrote:What is the point in giving Tau charge after DS lol.

Those 2 formations are for Raven Guard, not Tau

Thing is, a sales model like with the codexes, codecies? various codi would work very well. Collectors edition of the full set, nice resin (FW resin, not Fine Cast) and some nifty little gubbins; followed by a plastic gamer release of individual pieces. That would probably go well. HVM for the mass gamers, and make something special for collectors.