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maceria wrote:
Oh my god it happened!

GW finally found a way to get people to pay for FAQs!

They already do it. It's called every new codex ever....

 Hulksmash wrote:

maceria wrote:
Oh my god it happened!

GW finally found a way to get people to pay for FAQs!

They already do it. It's called every new codex ever....

y year!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:

maceria wrote:
Oh my god it happened!

GW finally found a way to get people to pay for FAQs!

They already do it. It's called every new codex ever....

y year

 Hulksmash wrote:

maceria wrote:
Oh my god it happened!

GW finally found a way to get people to pay for FAQs!

They already do it. It's called every new codex ever....

I don't know man. 4e Tau to 6e Tau was a pretty big change. Other Codex often the same.

Tyranids basically got a faq, but it was called a new codex.

What's different here is that they are -- allegedly -- LITERALLY TELLING YOU YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THE BOOK.

GW, saying you don't need to buy something.

As long as the campaign book isn't absurdly expensive, this could take off. They could go two directions. Either making rules updates free, or making every little update, entry, USR, wargear, and dataslate a new, costed, item.

BAM. Horse armor.

Campaign set is $74 and the Codex is $49.50. So for $24 and using two books for reference you can avoid purchasing the new codex if you like campaigns. I, personally, like this route. As I much rather have campaign material than another codex that doesn't expand the background or universe or does so minimally.

 derling wrote:

 BrokenRecord wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tau are a pretty solid book as they stand right now. Why fix what ain't broken?

It just seems like a huge slap in the face to Tau players. The three in my club are pretty much blind with rage at the moment.

Change is constant. The wise adapt.

40k is not the right game fro anyone who expects to (a) buy a book and play it for years and years or (b) buy some models and play those for years and years -- unless you have a closed group that is happy with playing with old models/books. The fans GW target are the ones that get all excited that they are getting new models and a new book to their existing faction. And a lot of us may bash power creep, but at the same time, people generally get excited when there are new units that are big and powerful or do cool, new things. When new units don't, they're "meh".

 Hulksmash wrote:
Campaign set is $74 and the Codex is $49.50. So for $24 and using two books for reference you can avoid purchasing the new codex if you like campaigns. I, personally, like this route. As I much rather have campaign material than another codex that doesn't expand the background or universe or does so minimally.

Yeah, the problem with that though is that the campaign box is already sold out. there goes your plan .

Betcha anything the Campaign book costs damn near double the Codex anyway.

Still going to be cheaper to just get the new codex if you dont care about campaign stuff

@MoD

This is not the campaign box with miniatures that is sold out in GWs online store but a separate book (a two book-set actually, similiar to Shield of Baal Leviathan)

Personally, I think they should go the old D&D route: a set of core books that are good for like, a decade. Add campaigns, and modules, and such, for not too much. Current climate, maybe $20USD for the campaign books I've seen. Cheaper if you print them on cheap material, have spots to fill things in, and make them disposable.

Looks like I may have to start work on the Grimdark Palace of the Silver Space Princess.

 Talys wrote:

 derling wrote:

 BrokenRecord wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tau are a pretty solid book as they stand right now. Why fix what ain't broken?

It just seems like a huge slap in the face to Tau players. The three in my club are pretty much blind with rage at the moment.

Change is constant. The wise adapt.

40k is not the right game fro anyone who expects to (a) buy a book and play it for years and years or (b) buy some models and play those for years and years -- unless you have a closed group that is happy with playing with old models/books. The fans GW target are the ones that get all excited that they are getting new models and a new book to their existing faction. And a lot of us may bash power creep, but at the same time, people generally get excited when there are new units that are big and powerful or do cool, new things. When new units don't, they're "meh".

I think their issue, is mainly that the last few codices saw some pretty significant changes to the units inside, in addition to the boost from the new mega formations, and they're feeling like they're getting left out in the cold. They all like the new Ghostkeel, but not a single one is even considering the Stormsurge, so, in their minds, this whole release is coming down to a single new model, and some formations. I think this is a case where they really were hoping for some power creep!

@MOD_Legion

Book set that's been shown and with it's price of $74. Not the miniature set.

@Vineheart01

It's $74. Basically half again as much for the campaign set. Which makes it a decent deal. But yes, it is cheaper to just buy the codex.

@Broken Record

What book recently had significant changes to the units? SM & DA both got basically a Decurion added and some unit moves around or the ability to squadron. All is easily added in a campaign supplement/FAQ. Necrons didn't see to much of a difference on a unit basis either. Eldar was again the exception, not the rule.

That said I'm not sure this is actually factual. Because you're talking about maelstrom, army wide rules, new drones and upgrades for units, new units, super formation detachment, and new formations. While it might be possible to play without buying the new book with the new campaign book I don't think it's super easy.

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Broken Record

What book recently had significant changes to the units? SM & DA both got basically a Decurion added and some unit moves around or the ability to squadron. All is easily added in a campaign supplement/FAQ. Necrons didn't see to much of a difference on a unit basis either. Eldar was again the exception, not the rule.

That said I'm not sure this is actually factual. Because you're talking about maelstrom, army wide rules, new drones and upgrades for units, new units, super formation detachment, and new formations. While it might be possible to play without buying the new book with the new campaign book I don't think it's super easy.

I'm thinking along the lines of the major changes to Chapter Tactics, Reanimation Protocols, Grim Resolve, and the various (minor, but still real) changes to some of the unit stats. Eldar was definitely a fluke, both in terms of "raw" power level, and amount of content changes, but the way I'm reading there rumors is that Tau are just getting a little stat change for a few models, the new units, and the formations, with no real rules changes; which would be a lot less that the previous codices. I'm really hoping I'm misunderstanding, or the rumors are off!

Hell, if they get vehicle squadron bonuses, and a few point adjustments, that'd would be enough, in my book!

Perhaps this is all just my residual butt-hurt from my two codices being total donkey balls! I've certainly been known to start complaining at the drop of a hat!

 BrokenRecord wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Broken Record

What book recently had significant changes to the units? SM & DA both got basically a Decurion added and some unit moves around or the ability to squadron. All is easily added in a campaign supplement/FAQ. Necrons didn't see to much of a difference on a unit basis either. Eldar was again the exception, not the rule.

That said I'm not sure this is actually factual. Because you're talking about maelstrom, army wide rules, new drones and upgrades for units, new units, super formation detachment, and new formations. While it might be possible to play without buying the new book with the new campaign book I don't think it's super easy.

I'm thinking along the lines of the major changes to Chapter Tactics, Reanimation Protocols, Grim Resolve, and the various (minor, but still real) changes to some of the unit stats. Eldar was definitely a fluke, both in terms of "raw" power level, and amount of content changes, but the way I'm reading there rumors is that Tau are just getting a little stat change for a few models, the new units, and the formations, with no real rules changes; which would be a lot less that the previous codices. I'm really hoping I'm misunderstanding, or the rumors are off, though! Hell, if they get vehicle squadron bonuses, and a few point adjustments, that'd would be enough, in my book!

Perhaps this is all just my residual butt-hurt from my two codices being total donkey balls! I've certainly been known to start complaining at the drop of a hat!

Buddy, it says right there on the codex description page that the Tau are getting a brand new Hunter Contingent on top of the Formations...

 Hulksmash wrote:
Actually seems like a better move for the consumer on GW's part. I mean really all codexes are just minor FAQ's with a bit of new stuff so this time you can either keep the original book and get the campaign book if campaigns matter to you or you can just get the new updated codex. Kinda nice actually compared to how this normally works.

...unless you're one of us who hate the current codex and hope a total rewrite :/

Backfire wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Actually seems like a better move for the consumer on GW's part. I mean really all codexes are just minor FAQ's with a bit of new stuff so this time you can either keep the original book and get the campaign book if campaigns matter to you or you can just get the new updated codex. Kinda nice actually compared to how this normally works.

...unless you're one of us who hate the current codex and hope a total rewrite :/

Then maybe you just want to play a different army?

 Hulksmash wrote:


@Broken Record

What book recently had significant changes to the units? SM & DA both got basically a Decurion added and some unit moves around or the ability to squadron. All is easily added in a campaign supplement/FAQ. Necrons didn't see to much of a difference on a unit basis either. Eldar was again the exception, not the rule.

.

You must be kidding right? Both books had scout stat changes, altered chapter tactics across the board. They added squadrons of vehicles WITH special rules. New warlord traits, altered FOC slots thunderfires are units now, techmarines even gained a wound and BS........ Ravenwing got massivley buffed... Where on earth are you getting your info from?

Necrons had army wide alterations as well including stat alterations from at least 3 entries off the top of my head with TONS of special rules and gear changing. RP's also changed entirely, what on earth are you on about?

Requizen wrote:

Then maybe you just want to play a different army?

Trading in countless hours and hundreds to thousands of dollars invested and just pick up another army to invest countless hours and hundreds to thousands of dollars in. That doesn't sound like a reasonable idea to me.

So, new campaign book is Shadowsuns revenge basically?

Wonder if Farsight will show up in the next part of the campaign. I mean its going to be titled Montka judging by the first book and the format of the GW campaign stuff.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Requizen wrote:


...unless you're one of us who hate the current codex and hope a total rewrite :/

Then maybe you just want to play a different army?

Trading in countless hours and hundreds to thousands of dollars invested and just pick up another army to invest countless hours and hundreds to thousands of dollars in. That doesn't sound like a reasonable idea to me.

Raven Guard get their own detachment plus 7 formations in Kauyon. The Tau fortifications rules are also in there



Two of the Ravenguard formations in german (bad quality and hard to read) under the spoiler tag:



More unboxings including manual pictures:

http://www.gamestrust.de/news,warhammer-40-000-tau-empire-bilder-burning-dawn-missionen-fire-warriors-kit,id46630.html

Can someone translate the german please?

Any German buddies interested in clearing up the Raven Guard rules? They're by and far my favorite Loyalist chapter and if this actually makes them playable, I might start collecting them.

I told everyone the new codex was going to be bad. No one listened to me though.

Our only hope is those formation, and if they're just getting jettisoned into some side book with such little change I have very little hope.

Well the Tau are effectively being gutted. Thanks a lot whiners for making us not get any buffs to stay competitive. Now instead of hoping for everyone to be buffed to the same level as Eldar/Necrons/Marines your keeping some of the codices down here and some up there and some over there all at wildly different levels of balance.

Games Workshop. NEVER listen to your idiot fans again with an exception to confirmed competitive players. I liked you better that way.

I seen the proposed rules for the 1 Ghostkeel and 3 stealth suits formation? Sucks so bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LowVhCfLm68#t=0m41s

 Gamgee wrote:
I told everyone the new codex was going to be bad. No one listened to me though.

Our only hope is those formation, and if they're just getting jettisoned into some side book with such little change I have very little hope.

Well the Tau are effectively being gutted. Thanks a lot whiners for making us not get any buffs to stay competitive. Now instead of hoping for everyone to be buffed to the same level as Eldar/Necrons/Marines your keeping some of the codices down here and some up there and some over there all at wildly different levels of balance.

Games Workshop. NEVER listen to your idiot fans again with an exception to confirmed competitive players. I liked you better that way.

I seen the proposed rules for the 1 Ghostkeel and 3 stealth suits formation? Sucks so bad.

Literally

what the hell are you talking about

Is this one of those satire things because if it is idgi

 Gamgee wrote:
I told everyone the new codex was going to be bad. No one listened to me though.

Our only hope is those formation, and if they're just getting jettisoned into some side book with such little change I have very little hope.

Well the Tau are effectively being gutted. Thanks a lot whiners for making us not get any buffs to stay competitive. Now instead of hoping for everyone to be buffed to the same level as Eldar/Necrons/Marines your keeping some of the codices down here and some up there and some over there all at wildly different levels of balance.

Games Workshop. NEVER listen to your idiot fans again with an exception to confirmed competitive players. I liked you better that way.

I seen the proposed rules for the 1 Ghostkeel and 3 stealth suits formation? Sucks so bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LowVhCfLm68#t=0m41s

Glad that's settled then.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Raven Guard get their own detachment plus 7 formations in Kauyon. The Tau fortifications rules are also in there



Two of the Ravenguard formations in german (bad quality and hard to read) under the spoiler tag:

Spoiler:

More unboxings including manual pictures:

http://www.gamestrust.de/news,warhammer-40-000-tau-empire-bilder-burning-dawn-missionen-fire-warriors-kit,id46630.html

What is the purple stuff on the map coming from that crater. What do the annotations say that is? It's almost like a moat.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:


@Broken Record

What book recently had significant changes to the units? SM & DA both got basically a Decurion added and some unit moves around or the ability to squadron. All is easily added in a campaign supplement/FAQ. Necrons didn't see to much of a difference on a unit basis either. Eldar was again the exception, not the rule.

.

You must be kidding right? Both books had scout stat changes, altered chapter tactics across the board. They added squadrons of vehicles WITH special rules. New warlord traits, altered FOC slots thunderfires are units now, techmarines even gained a wound and BS........ Ravenwing got massivley buffed... Where on earth are you getting your info from?

Necrons had army wide alterations as well including stat alterations from at least 3 entries off the top of my head with TONS of special rules and gear changing. RP's also changed entirely, what on earth are you on about?

So much anger. You kinda missed the next part where I doubt the validity because of the army wide changes that are likely to happen? As for the codexes though nothing in them was ground breaking. All of it could have been completed in a 1pg FAQ. Which was kinda my point on that but overall I doubt the validity of all changes being in the campaign and using the old codex because the sheer amount of minutia would make this unlikely.

Requizen wrote:


Is it any less reasonable than expecting the entire army to change because you don't like how it plays?

This would actually have some weight as an argument if the style of how the army played hasn't changed from the 4th ed codex to the 6th. The new codex has less focus on mobility, removing Broadsides ability to move and shoot and vehicles ability to fire as a fast vehicle while also bringing in gun lines. This new fortification and the Stormsurge further this problem.

If you dislike the entire book, then why spend your time on it, hoping that it's going to get a complete overhaul when history has shown that it almost never happens?

Except things have been overhauled. Necrons in 5th. Grey Knights, then getting gutted into three different books.

Besides, what kind of argument is "It's been bad for a while so it defaults to good"?
If a complaint carries over from the previous codex, then it still stands as a complaint now. Ork players rightfully bemoan their inability to tackle heavy armor, which is something that was a problem in previous editions.

Well, it looks like from the Strike FireWarrior entry in the FW instruction Manual confirms the allowance of the DS8 Support drone in the regular FW teams.

..."Gutted"? What particular viscera did we lose, exactly? Weren't we a mid-upper tier codex to begin with?

I only see additions, and nothing taken away, from Fire Warriors (Strikers in the new nomenclature). The additions seems facially an improvement as well.

Same for the Commander, frankly. Same for every single unit from the previous codex that we've seen - additions, without any nerf or reduction in power.

Everything else we've seen is a formation-specific unit/model or a model that wasn't an option in the previous codex, and extrapolating from there seems speculative at best.