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Do the hunter contingent and hunter cadre overlap? It looks like he has basic for the Hunter cadre and a basic has to be included in the hunter contingent right? Little confused.

Hunter Contingent is the Decurion's name. it's the overarching mega formation that contains all the others.

the Hunter Cadre is the Basic formation that builds into a Contingent. Being able to run then shoot, and 12" support fire for the core of your army is Really, Really good.

makes me wonder what an auxiliary is then.

Fishboy wrote:

grazingshot wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?

A FMC may choose to fire as skyfire, the rule for it does not say that their unit gains skyfire, just that the model does which is why it won't work.

Pretty sure it only can choose skyfire if it is gliding (is that the one where they are up in the air?)

Swooping

Gamgee wrote:What the gak is happening? Am I in some sort of alternate universe?

It's like... Mr. Roundtree is actually trying to do a bit of market research!

The way I read it is:

1: Crisis unit declares a target
2: You decide which units will join in on shooting of this target
3: The rest of the shooting (including declaring splitfires and target locks) happens.

Of course, until we see some English leaks, there's no point getting super worked up over it. And if it is accurate, then there's no point in getting super worked up over it because you can't change it.

For your local gaming club, don't be a dick. For a Tournament, that's for the TOs to decide.

In fact, rereading it, it seems to be:

1: You declare you are going to make a combined shooting attack, and select the units that will be shooting in this singular attack.

2: Your combined unit selects a primary target.

3: Any models that have target lock, or any models you wish to split fire with, may choose to do so.

So, as always, unless you are playing an ITC game against Tau (since second turn always wins in ITC, yo!), you probably want to get first turn and have some way to smack down that Crisis Commander. Or at least no way for him to legally target you, which probably is a bit trickier then hitting him with an orbital bombardment or some other shenanigans.

And if he hides everything in the back out of range, and you won first deployment, be sure to give him first turn, since you can do that in 7th, and make him move forward.

And for the love of god, play with some real terrain. That blocks line of sight. Playing on cue ball the world might be fun for the (rare) d-bag, but insist on using the rulebook version of terrain deployment if you have to, since it's the rulebook, and thus it is holy.

On another note, I'm excited for Tau players, loathing the future rules conundrums, and looking forward to seeing how it actually translate onto a 1500-2000 point table.

EDIT: Don't all targets have to be declared before you fire a GCs weapons? For example, you pick two targets, and each of them getting a destroyer missile, and you can't change your mind after the roll to throw another destroyer missile, as you've already done target declaration and such.

 Fishboy wrote:
makes me wonder what an auxiliary is then.

Auxiliaries are all those formations that aren't Core or Command.

Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!

So the stealth formation would fall into auxiliaries?

Caederes wrote:
Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!

Focusing your army's shooting onto a single unit is pretty cheesy enough as it is.

lest not we forget, either, that you get the BS bonus when you group 3 or more units at a time - you could easily shoot your units in Triads, designed for specific targets, and put a pretty big hurt on more than just a single enemy unit each turn that way.

Edit - BS4 tau is all i've ever hoped for in a dex for the longest time. This plus existing markerlight rules is just extra gravy.

 Fishboy wrote:
So the stealth formation would fall into auxiliaries?

I believe so, yes.

A thing I noticed and I'd like to hear your opinion, guys:

As combining fire means units will fire as if they were one, putting there a ML source is a bad idea, right? As you can only use network markerlights with your own shooting. Only Remoras and Sky Rays have that, if I'm not mistaken... So it would be a good idea to use 3 ML units to fire at an enemy (netting them +1BS) and only then selecting other 2+ units to fire at the marked target, right?

 Vector Strike wrote:
A thing I noticed and I'd like to hear your opinion, guys:

As combining fire means units will fire as if they were one, putting there a ML source is a bad idea, right? As you can only use network markerlights with your own shooting. Only Remoras and Sky Rays have that, if I'm not mistaken... So it would be a good idea to use 3 ML units to fire at an enemy (netting them +1BS) and only then selecting other 2+ units to fire at the marked target, right?

Yes. Or include a stationary skyray in your grouped shooting attack, netting 2 BS5 networked markerlights, that would then increase the lowly tau fire warriors, suits, everything to a potential BS6

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
When you shoot at someone in the shooting phase, you make a shooting attack. The sequence for using TLs is:

1. Declare the enemy unit the TL unit is shooting at.
2. TL suits then declare what units they are going to shoot at, seperate from the rest of the unit.

The TL shots don't count as another unit shooting, which from the leak is what triggers the sharing special rule. "Any time a UNIT of the Hunter Contingent shoots..."

Is the Crisis unit firing? Yes, at the target unit. You can pile on to that unit.

Is the TL suit a UNIT firing? No, it is a model in the crisis unit allowed to choose a seperate target.

This is correct. The "Target" of a shooting attack is what the core unit declares it is shooting at. Usage of Target Locks is a per-model decision to take their fire and apply it against a different enemy unit within range. It does not make the initial unit have multiple overall targets.

Once you've declared the initial unit (presumably with the unit that contains the buffmander) any other unit you have within the detachment that has not already shot (and is within range) may choose to join into that specific instance of shooting against the same target. Presumably if these other units that are joining in have their own target locks or abilities to fire at multiple targets, they may do so - although this does require a better look at the rules and I would not be shocked if it requires an FAQ hot-fix or tourney level specific ruling. It may only allow them to fire at the same target similar to how supporting fire functions in overwatch.

I cannot wait to play with the Retaliation Formation. A Commander, 3 Crisis Teams, A Broadside Team, and a Riptide Unit all guaranteed to come in turn 2 Deep Striking with +1 BS for the turn? And the Broadsides get relentless AND can Deep Strike? Sign. Me. Up. This is exactly what I wanted from my battlesuit formation.

This is probably where I'll stick my Coldstar, as it gets him close enough to make good use of his high output BC, it guarantees he gets to start swooping, and he won't be my warlord so if he dies, no big deal. Crisis Teams will get my usual loadouts (1 team with dual Fusions and 2 TLs, 1 team with MPs and possibly a support system, and 1 team whatever I feel like, most likely PRs). Broadsides will get HYMPs and SMS (though I might actually try playing with PRs for once since they'll finally be close enough to use them!) and do all the things I want Broadsides to do, namely be a mobile 36" radius bubble of S7 death. Probably will stick with only one Riptide, MAYBE two depending on what else I bring, but I doubt I will every bring three. This formation is gonna get very expensive very fast, and three Riptides w/ IA run 555 minimum, 570 to give them TLs to get maximum use out of them, and 675 to give them my normal loadout (IA, SMS, Stim, and EWO or TL).

Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."

 GI_Redshirt wrote:
I cannot wait to play with the Retaliation Formation. A Commander, 3 Crisis Teams, A Broadside Team, and a Riptide Unit all guaranteed to come in turn 2 Deep Striking with +1 BS for the turn? And the Broadsides get relentless AND can Deep Strike? Sign. Me. Up. This is exactly what I wanted from my battlesuit formation.

This is probably where I'll stick my Coldstar, as it gets him close enough to make good use of his high output BC, it guarantees he gets to start swooping, and he won't be my warlord so if he dies, no big deal. Crisis Teams will get my usual loadouts (1 team with dual Fusions and 2 TLs, 1 team with MPs and possibly a support system, and 1 team whatever I feel like, most likely PRs). Broadsides will get HYMPs and SMS (though I might actually try playing with PRs for once since they'll finally be close enough to use them!) and do all the things I want Broadsides to do, namely be a mobile 36" radius bubble of S7 death. Probably will stick with only one Riptide, MAYBE two depending on what else I bring, but I doubt I will every bring three. This formation is gonna get very expensive very fast, and three Riptides w/ IA run 555 minimum, 570 to give them TLs to get maximum use out of them, and 675 to give them my normal loadout (IA, SMS, Stim, and EWO or TL).

Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."

Pair it with an optimised stealth cadre and put teleport homers on the stealth teams. That would be helpful, yes?

Caederes wrote:
Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!

I mean, RAW, a Split Fire attack is declared as a separate shooting attack, so when you declare it you can get the Hunter Contingent bonus. Like this:

You have some units: A B C D E F and G. The enemy has units X Y and Z

G has Split Fire on two models, so in normal circumstances can fire at 3 different targets.

Model 1 in G Split Fires into enemy X. A and B join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of A, B, and G into enemy unit X.
Model 2 in G Split Fires into enemy Y. C and D join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of C, D, and G into enemy unit Y.
The rest of the models in G fire normally into enemy Z. E and F join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of E, F, and G into enemy unit Z.

You don't get the bonuses of all 7 units against all 3 enemy units. Each Split Fire is a separate shooting attack. However, if unit G has a bunch of special rules built in, then you can spread those USRs against 3 different targets.

This might be changed, but that's how I would interpret it. And I'm not even a Tau player

 GI_Redshirt wrote:


Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."

If you field 3 riptides and fire with them at the same target of any other unit, they'll become BS5 (Fire Team being shared). If 3 units fire that way... BS6 (as long as you're in a Hunter Contingent)

Requizen wrote:

Caederes wrote:
Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!

I mean, RAW, a Split Fire attack is declared as a separate shooting attack, so when you declare it you can get the Hunter Contingent bonus. Like this:

You have some units: A B C D E F and G. The enemy has units X Y and Z

G has Split Fire on two models, so in normal circumstances can fire at 3 different targets.

Model 1 in G Split Fires into enemy X. A and B join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of A, B, and G into enemy unit X.
Model 2 in G Split Fires into enemy Y. C and D join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of C, D, and G into enemy unit Y.
The rest of the models in G fire normally into enemy Z. E and F join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of E, F, and G into enemy unit Z.

You don't get the bonuses of all 7 units against all 3 enemy units. Each Split Fire is a separate shooting attack. However, if unit G has a bunch of special rules built in, then you can spread those USRs against 3 different targets.

This might be changed, but that's how I would interpret it. And I'm not even a Tau player

EBWOP:

Wait, does Target Lock give Split Fire or is it a separate rule?

Basically:

Score three marker hits,

Focus rest of army into one homogenous BS5 Ignores Cover mass,

Remove enemy deathstar unit from table.

Currently, it's a separate rule. Split fire allows 1 model in the unit to divert fire, that's it. Target lock says the equipped model may fire at a different target than the rest of his unit.

SOOOOOOO what's the deal on Farsight?

Requizen wrote:

Caederes wrote:
Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!

I mean, RAW, a Split Fire attack is declared as a separate shooting attack, so when you declare it you can get the Hunter Contingent bonus. Like this:

You have some units: A B C D E F and G. The enemy has units X Y and Z

G has Split Fire on two models, so in normal circumstances can fire at 3 different targets.

Model 1 in G Split Fires into enemy X. A and B join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of A, B, and G into enemy unit X.
Model 2 in G Split Fires into enemy Y. C and D join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of C, D, and G into enemy unit Y.
The rest of the models in G fire normally into enemy Z. E and F join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of E, F, and G into enemy unit Z.

You don't get the bonuses of all 7 units against all 3 enemy units. Each Split Fire is a separate shooting attack. However, if unit G has a bunch of special rules built in, then you can spread those USRs against 3 different targets.

This might be changed, but that's how I would interpret it. And I'm not even a Tau player

It is a seperate shooting attack, but its not another unit making a shooting attack. The primary target of unit G would still be unit Z and therefore thats the only unit that bonuses could be used against.

changemod wrote:
Basically:

Score three marker hits,

Focus rest of army into one homogenous BS5 Ignores Cover mass,

Remove enemy deathstar unit from table.

I mean, many Deathstars have other things than Cover (high T, good Invuln saves, rerollable saves, Invis, etc), but yeah it's going to be pretty brutal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SOOOOOOO what's the deal on Farsight?

Should still be legal as this is basically Tau Empire 6.56.7

Has there been any sighting of Farsight yet? I'm guessing FSE hasn't been rolled back into the main book, but I'm wondering if it hasn't been removed completely.

I'm a bit worried because Shadowsun and Aun'Va have been mentioned, but there's no sign of the man in red. Plus, it seems like the retaliation cadre is perfectly sized to let you field Farsight and his merry band. Is there any indication the Enclave book's still valid, or is this formation a token, "here, now you didn't waste all that money building The Eight."?

I'm guesing he's has to still be there as you can still buy him from the GW webstore.

Other thoughts:

- Hunter Cadre gives Supporting Fire 12". Does that mean units without it get it (vehicles, mostly) or do you still need to buy the upgrade? If no upgrade needed, they wouldn't be limited to S5 weapons, would they?

- As the combined firing does not depend on your BS, 2 Jinking Devilfishes could combine fire with their cargo to grant them the +1BS for combining 3+ units. It would be good with Breachers.

- What's the benefit of the Command Formation? Still missing that one.

- Heavy Retribution Cadre do squat to Jetbikes' turbo-boost. maybe asking for a FAQ?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 GI_Redshirt wrote:
I cannot wait to play with the Retaliation Formation. A Commander, 3 Crisis Teams, A Broadside Team, and a Riptide Unit all guaranteed to come in turn 2 Deep Striking with +1 BS for the turn? And the Broadsides get relentless AND can Deep Strike? Sign. Me. Up. This is exactly what I wanted from my battlesuit formation.

This is probably where I'll stick my Coldstar, as it gets him close enough to make good use of his high output BC, it guarantees he gets to start swooping, and he won't be my warlord so if he dies, no big deal. Crisis Teams will get my usual loadouts (1 team with dual Fusions and 2 TLs, 1 team with MPs and possibly a support system, and 1 team whatever I feel like, most likely PRs). Broadsides will get HYMPs and SMS (though I might actually try playing with PRs for once since they'll finally be close enough to use them!) and do all the things I want Broadsides to do, namely be a mobile 36" radius bubble of S7 death. Probably will stick with only one Riptide, MAYBE two depending on what else I bring, but I doubt I will every bring three. This formation is gonna get very expensive very fast, and three Riptides w/ IA run 555 minimum, 570 to give them TLs to get maximum use out of them, and 675 to give them my normal loadout (IA, SMS, Stim, and EWO or TL).

Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."

Pair it with an optimised stealth cadre and put teleport homers on the stealth teams. That would be helpful, yes?

Could be, though it would be expensive, cause you have the Ghostkeels in there too. Doubt you could run both and have them be as effective as possible in a Hunter Contingent, but you could easily do so in a CAD with an ethereal and 2 FW squads, maybe in Devilfish depending on the points.

If you field 3 riptides and fire with them at the same target of any other unit, they'll become BS5 (Fire Team being shared). If 3 units fire that way... BS6 (as long as you're in a Hunter Contingent)

A good point, and I had thought about that. Problem is, with the units kitted out the way I want them to be, That's gonna run me 1538 points for just the formation (1418 if I give the Riptides no support systems, which I hate to do). With a barebones Hunter Cadre (naked Commander, 3 5 man breacher squads, a 4 man marker drone squad, and a single broadside to fill the formation requirements), that's 1751 points with naked Riptides, 1871 with my Riptides kitted out properly. The formation itself would be freaking terrifying when it came in turn 2, but they would have no markerlight support, and the rest of my army would be completely useless. It would bank on the Retaliation Cadre completely annihilating my opponent's army the turn they come in, cause after that they're gonna be BS3 with no marker support (BS4 on the Riptides). Even with the Contingent special rules, that's a serious blow. I'm also all but guaranteed to give up First Blood and Warlord and will have no Ob Sec, so even with 6 units that have a pretty good chance of surviving to the end of the game, a single Tac Marine could steal an objective from my Riptides. I'm not a huge fan of putting all my eggs in one basket, which this list would do. Everything would be riding on the whole formation coming in without mishaps, and doing enough damage turn 2 that the enemy cannot recover. I don't really see it working more than once against an opponent.

Running it in a CAD, yeah I could easily see taking 3 Riptides in this formation. In the Hunter Contingent, it's just too expensive. Probably gonna run one Riptide in the formation, and use the extra points to get a 3 man Ghostkeel team in the Hunter Cadre. Maybe run 2 Riptides if I find the Ghostkeels to be lacking (which I highly doubt I will).

Yes, I think as an add-on to a CAD. I use many FW things, so outside testing I'm not gonna field Hunter Cadre.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Yes, I think as an add-on to a CAD. I use many FW things, so outside testing I'm not gonna field Hunter Cadre.

You know, I said the same thing about the Decurion when it first came out... but dang is it hard to say no to free rules after a while.

I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.

Hunter Contingent benefit isn't inherently "shared rules" - it's join units together when shooting and count them as a single unit. That's like the Decurion's +1 Reanimation roll bonus.

Hunter Cadre, as the core - it's benefit is 12" supporting fire, and Run then Shoot. That's like the Demi-Company's +1 Tactical Doctrine per game bonus.