Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.

I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.

Don't forget the rules for the fortification are in the box with them. Just buy the codex.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.

I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.

Who said there are discrepancies?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

changemod wrote:
Well, as I fully suspected, Kauyon lacks minor erratta for existing units such as ones that can now take larger numbers of models, or get a bonus for taking a bunch of models.

Conversely, the codex has no fortification rules.

So, in order to get all the new rules for the Tau you need to spend £75 on books. Until the next book comes out and that price increases. Yay GW.

Well, the unit rules can be found from White Dwarf too. Admittably not all in same issue, that would make too much sense, but buying 2 or 3 £2.40 magazines probably won't break anyone's bank.

So in my opinion this is actually step up from usual GW codex change, if not for a looming fact that Tau, which actually NEEDED a rewrite was wrong book to try this out. I do hope that next Space Marines codex is done same way.

Hmmm, AFP and CIB only have one cost listed. No twin link?

Backfire wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

changemod wrote:
Well, as I fully suspected, Kauyon lacks minor erratta for existing units such as ones that can now take larger numbers of models, or get a bonus for taking a bunch of models.

Conversely, the codex has no fortification rules.

So, in order to get all the new rules for the Tau you need to spend £75 on books. Until the next book comes out and that price increases. Yay GW.

Well, the unit rules can be found from White Dwarf too. Admittably not all in same issue, that would make too much sense, but buying 2 or 3 £2.40 magazines probably won't break anyone's bank.

So in my opinion this is actually step up from usual GW codex change, if not for a looming fact that Tau, which actually NEEDED a rewrite was wrong book to try this out. I do hope that next Space Marines codex is done same way.

Except do those WDs include the change to make Crisis teams available in units of 1 to 9, Riptides in units of 1 to 3 etc.?

Because apparently the Kauyon book doesn't. And does anybody actually believe that GW are going to release an FAQ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

maceria wrote:
Hmmm, AFP and CIB only have one cost listed. No twin link?

Does look that way.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Except do those WDs include the change to make Crisis teams available in units of 1 to 9, Riptides in units of 1 to 3 etc.?

Because apparently the Kauyon book doesn't. And does anybody actually believe that GW are going to release an FAQ?.

Apparently?

Where is that information from?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Except do those WDs include the change to make Crisis teams available in units of 1 to 9, Riptides in units of 1 to 3 etc.?

Because apparently the Kauyon book doesn't. And does anybody actually believe that GW are going to release an FAQ?

The Kauyon book includes amendments to those units, and as far as I can see, it deals with everything with regards to the old book. It even specifically refers to the old book and how to use the two (2012 Tau Empire + Kauyon) together.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.

I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.

Who said there are discrepancies?

I think a lot of it depends on how steadfast you are on the rules. If you play like me, I hardly ever look at the rulebook during play, and if my opponent tells me something is some way that I can't recall, I'm happy with it. I mean, whatever, I'm there to play the game.

On the other hand, if rules precision is really important to you, having page numbers that line up, having every preposition and adverb be unchanged, etc... you're PROBABLY better off with the codex. Plus, the codex is cheaper anyways, and saves you from having 2 heavy books to lug around.

If they really wanted to do people a favor, they should have printed a $20 White Dwarf size booklet (softcover) that amends Codex: Tau Empire 2013. But anyways, there's some choice here, and that's better than no choice, so props there, seeing as they decided not to change a lot of stuff.

Drones in units are 2pts more than drones as wargear.

 Talys wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.

I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.

Who said there are discrepancies?

I think a lot of it depends on how steadfast you are on the rules. If you play like me, I hardly ever look at the rulebook during play, and if my opponent tells me something is some way that I can't recall, I'm happy with it. I mean, whatever, I'm there to play the game.

On the other hand, if rules precision is really important to you, having page numbers that line up, having every preposition and adverb be unchanged, etc... you're PROBABLY better off with the codex. Plus, the codex is cheaper anyways, and saves you from having 2 heavy books to lug around.

If they really wanted to do people a favor, they should have printed a $20 White Dwarf size booklet (softcover) that amends Codex: Tau Empire 2013. But anyways, there's some choice here, and that's better than no choice, so props there, seeing as they decided not to change a lot of stuff.

Doesn't answer the question. What source claims that the Kauyon-book + 2012 Codex does not, as advertised, provide the complete and precisely identical information concerning things like the Crisis Teams?

Price and preferences aside. People like Vineheart01 specifically said they'd prefer the campaign-book, but wouldn't buy on the basis of that information.

"Probably" is something very different to the definite mentioned on the page above. A confirmation of such a "probably" would be a huge thing, no?

Sigh...

Okay, Codex: Tau Empire, 2013 reads under Aun'Va:

Supreme Loyalty: Whilst Aun'Va is alive, all friendly units from Codex: Tau Empire on the battlefield re-roll all failed Fear, Morale Pinning and Regroup tests.

Page 61

Codex: Tau Empire 2015 reads under Aun'Va:

Supreme Loyalty: Whilst Aun'Va is alive, all friendly units with the Tau Empire Faction re-roll all failed Fear, Morale Pinning and Regroup tests.

Page 80

Do you see what I mean? That's a HUGE difference... if you use Farsight Enclaves, or one of the Burning Dawn units. Is there a datasheet for Aun'Va in Kauyon? I doubt it.

So, even though I'm the furthest thing from a rules lawyer, I will elect to buy Codex: Tau Empire 2015, in order to have datasheets that have the most accurate, most current version of the rules. Even if GW, and probably most reasonable players, don't think that the two Aun'Va entries are different, and wouldn't go and spend money for such a small change, they ARE subtly and significantly different.

Same thing for me on getting the accurate stuff.

One could call me a rules lawyer because i know pretty much all the rules very well, but like ive said in the past many times i play logically not raw. Ive ruled many things against myself because it makes sense and reminded my opponents of options they may not think about. Clear rules = more fun.

Also side note, Tau 2015 proves without a doubt they dont intend people to play competitively. Theres so many rule loopholes and i'd be surprised if they fix them all. Such as the Stormsurge getting Ethereal pulse weapon bonuses, which i will never use because that is just...dumb lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Same thing for me on getting the accurate stuff.

One could call me a rules lawyer because i know pretty much all the rules very well, but like ive said in the past many times i play logically not raw. Ive ruled many things against myself because it makes sense and reminded my opponents of options they may not think about. Clear rules = more fun.

Also side note, Tau 2015 proves without a doubt they dont intend people to play competitively. Theres so many rule loopholes and i'd be surprised if they fix them all. Such as the Stormsurge getting Ethereal pulse weapon bonuses, which i will never use because that is just...dumb lol

It specifically says in the codex that the etherals ability does not effect stormsurge (amongst other things)

So can someone confirm whether the Kauyon book has errata for existing units as well as the rules for new units? I only ordered the Kauyon book and would like to know if I need to email and add the codex to my order.

 ImAGeek wrote:
So can someone confirm whether the Kauyon book has errata for existing units as well as the rules for new units? I only ordered the Kauyon book and would like to know if I need to email and add the codex to my order.

Depends on what you mean by errata.

It specifically states you can use the 2012 codex, and says which units to change (Riptides becoming 1-3 with the ability to take bonding knives, etc) and that the new units in the Kauyon book can be taken alongside the codex units. There's half a page (in addition to the datasheets and detachment) explaining how to use the 2012 codex going forward.

 ImAGeek wrote:
So can someone confirm whether the Kauyon book has errata for existing units as well as the rules for new units? I only ordered the Kauyon book and would like to know if I need to email and add the codex to my order.

The codex leaks are already out (like, every meaningful page), so just compare the new dataslates side-by-side with the old codex, and you'll see for yourself. Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant. There are scattered little differences that I don't think most play groups would make an issue of, but most purists would get all excited about.

Personally, I'm going to buy the 2015 codex and skip the campaign book, as someone else in our group that plays Tau will buy it for sure, and we don't need multiple copies of it. Then I can stuff the 6e codex on the shelf that has all my old rulebooks, and my "current" library of rulebooks for 40k doesn't get any bigger.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Same thing for me on getting the accurate stuff.

One could call me a rules lawyer because i know pretty much all the rules very well, but like ive said in the past many times i play logically not raw. Ive ruled many things against myself because it makes sense and reminded my opponents of options they may not think about. Clear rules = more fun.

Also side note, Tau 2015 proves without a doubt they dont intend people to play competitively. Theres so many rule loopholes and i'd be surprised if they fix them all. Such as the Stormsurge getting Ethereal pulse weapon bonuses, which i will never use because that is just...dumb lol

It specifically says in the codex that the etherals ability does not effect stormsurge (amongst other things)

But if you were using the 6th ed Codex plus the Kau'yon book, is that errata in there?

Just checked and it is.

 Talys wrote:
Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant.

I haven't found anything that is not identical. The point above is addressed in Kauyon. Is there another example of a difference? There don't seem to be any.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant.

I haven't found anything that is not identical. The point above is addressed in Kauyon. Is there another example of a difference? There don't seem to be any.

I haven't seen the Kauyon version of the rules, sorry. Even so, I'm not sure I'll go to the trouble of checking it word for word, as I don't really play Tau. I will leave that honor to someone else who is more invested in the faction

 Talys wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant.

I haven't found anything that is not identical. The point above is addressed in Kauyon. Is there another example of a difference? There don't seem to be any.

I haven't seen the Kauyon version of the rules, sorry. Even so, I'm not sure I'll go to the trouble of checking it word for word, as I don't really play Tau. I will leave that honor to someone else who is more invested in the faction

Fair enough. But then the default assumption shouldn't be that there are differences, unless GW declares there are or someone provides a scan/picture/some evidence that this is the case.

Hating on discrepancies, while simultaneously admitting to not care enough to actually check if they exist, smells of trolling.

I did a quick glance through both of them last night and I couldn't see any discrepencies, except that I couldn't actually find the Fire Team rule in Kauyon though it mentions it in the Errata, saying it's on the next page, but the next page discussed what everything on the dataslates meant. Either the epub is missing a page or someone goofed.

EDIT: Actually scratch that, it's there. I missed it the first time as it isn't that noticeable. It IS on the next page, just down the bottom in a small black box.

The Tau datasheets included in full in Kauyon are as follows;
- Commander
- Ethereal
- Strike Team
- Breacher Team
- Crisis Suits
- Crisis Bodyguard
- Ghostkeel
- Stormsurge
- All the Formations that are in the codex
- The new Fortifications (individually) and 2 new Networks.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Fair enough. But then the default assumption shouldn't be that there are differences, unless GW declares there are or someone provides a scan/picture/some evidence that this is the case.

Hating on discrepancies, while simultaneously admitting to not care enough to actually check if they exist, smells of trolling.

Well, look, I spent 5 minutes flipping through the leaks, and I saw two differences -- Aun'Va special rule, and Ethereal having the hover drone option. I'm not saying it's NOT in Kauyon (like I said, I haven't seen the Kauyon leaks); I'm saying I'm not going to buy Kauyon, because going through each page to look for differences isn't worth the effort. I'd rather just buy the $50 2015 codex, have the current version, and be done with it.

I wasn't even LOOKING for discrepancies. I just noticed those two hitting the next button. I'm sure there are other minor text differences, and in fairness, maybe they are in Kauyon's "how to use 2013 codex" page.

Keep in mind that I've repeatedly said that a plurality of players probably won't care.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again, just randomly looking at datasheets, I noticed that Kroot Carnivores do not list Kroot Armour anymore.

Now, granted, that doesn't matter because the Save column says 6+ (which is what Kroot Armour confers), so it's not like the rules work out differently, but the text IS different.

In fact, in the Battlesuits and Armour section, the entire entry for Kroot Armour has been removed. You could say, "well, this is because Kroot Armour only gives a 6+ save an no extra bonuses". Fair enough... but Recon Armour only confers 5+ with no extra bonuses, and it made it to 2015.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Fair enough. But then the default assumption shouldn't be that there are differences, unless GW declares there are or someone provides a scan/picture/some evidence that this is the case.

Finally a voice of reason. Thanks, Wolf

Does anyone else feel as though these campaign books might be the launch of a business model that's like the age of sigmar one? Release new stuff in huge non-codex codexes? I can see more stuff being done this way seeing as it means they can pump out stuff without total overhauls

its a good thing for story (potentially) but not a great thing for our wallets oops

Buttinsky wrote:
Does anyone else feel as though these campaign books might be the launch of a business model that's like the age of sigmar one? Release new stuff in huge non-codex codexes? I can see more stuff being done this way seeing as it means they can pump out stuff without total overhauls

its a good thing for story (potentially) but not a great thing for our wallets oops

Well, it's not really anything new. This is a lot like Shield of Baal, from last year. The only real difference is that you don't have to buy a codex if you don't want to, which is a good thing, I suppose. I think the model is sustainable for factions with a good codex (Tau being one of them), not so much for factions with a terrible codex that needs a major overhaul, like IG or Tyranid.

I doubt GW will want to forever surrender the revenue from codex prints!

The other thing to keep in mind is that stores don't stock the campaign sets forever, but they do with the current codex books. Plus, 8 campaigns later, you wouldn't want to have to bring a truckload of books just to play Space marines.

You cannot (hopefully) argue that GW hasn't been creative.

Previously we've had re-spawning units.

Then we had free wargear options.

Then reserve when-I-Say-So rules

Now we are seeing USR being handed out like Candy, served by a well rounded GMC to balance out the SHW's abound.

All this means is that players will by models and want to play games with them. The basic core tennant of GW aiming to make money means players will play more with the models they purchase.

You then can, very reasonably, rely on the Competitive Meta to balance itself as we have seen with thorough restrictions, Erratas or adjustments (ITC, Nova, etc.).

Reserves when i say so is hardly creative. Thats how it should be by default. I should be able to decide i dont want a unit to come in at all. I can understand the dice to see if they arrived, but not being able to say "Nah, not yet" irritates me.

Thats one thing i love about my Golden Lions in Warzone. They deploy at the start of any turn i want them to in terrain within 12" of a friendly unit, even in melee combat they just simply appear. So i can bring them in exactly when i need them. I wish 40k would change the general reserves to at LEAST allow me to not bring them in. Theres so many times i had to bring in my deepstrikers when i didnt remove the Battlecannon yet, immediately losing half my squad if not more unless i roll my assault move like a boss.

Yeah, that's always annoyed me. It takes any tactics out of that part of the game in exchange for dice-rolls.

Can't find the leaked Fortification rules, anyone have a leak?

Can they only be taken in a Tau CAD or are they available to other armies?