Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Merijeek wrote:
Man, your post makes a lot more sense once the picture loaded.

Added it afterwards, never sure if people will be a little too old or a little too young to get that reference.

I might be too old.

He ran the business by the seat of his pants, learning through trial and error and experimentation.

Amazing how much things change in 30+ years.

Or...don't!

 Alpharius wrote:
And since no one answered me, I Interneted it myself!

Wayne Smith, Editor, Special Projects, Rifter® Editor-in-Chief

http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211&Itemid=206#Wayne

Kevin's bio on that same page is...pretty interesting.

Using a little math for some of the employees, Wayne appears to be the only person in the company younger than 55. While I'm not usually ageist, and feel people CAN contribute well past their current ages, I'm now less surprised at the way things have happened, as lack of diversity in experiences tends to solidify a specific way of thinking.

Morgan Vening wrote:
While I'm not usually ageist, and feel people CAN contribute well past their current ages, I'm now less surprised at the way things have happened, as lack of diversity in experiences tends to solidify a specific way of thinking.

Calcification of the brain in regards to imagination and adoption of new methods?
One guy hires and fires so the "opinions" tend to be unanimous in that organization.

I suspect the old dogs at palladium learned the trick to agree with the boss a long time ago after watching waves of whipper snappers come and go wtih their crazy ideas about new rules and such. Speaking of being too old, my feet hurt and I still don't get the can joke with or without the picture Manchu posted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:

He ran the business by the seat of his pants, learning through trial and error and experimentation.

Amazing how much things change in 30+ years.

Or...don't!

Certainly not the game rules!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just peeked at the KS comment section and it looks like Dave has simmered down a little. Geez, I never thought someone could beat out lolafett's comment signal to noise ration but Dave officially did. At least with lola, he seems to randomly pound on the keyboard for minutes at a time to get his wall of texts that I page up through; Dave just cheated and was copy pasting.

Looked at KS comments.
New appreciation for moderators.
That David is just a lost soul crying out to be BANED!!

When did all this start where "banned" is now "baned" anyway?

That Dave guy is taking it too far and it's annoying as crap to have to try and scroll past all his spam. He's a part of Gamers on Games and I think I'm going to blanket ignore any of their comments and youtube videos from now on. I have no love for Palladium but the guy is being a straight up douche.

 warboss wrote:
Speaking of being too old, my feet hurt and I still don't get the can joke with or without the picture Manchu posted.

I don't have dentures but my feet hurt too... You need to play that Half Life Episode 1 NOW.
Next you will say you had not played Diablo...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:

He ran the business by the seat of his pants, learning through trial and error and experimentation.

Amazing how much things change in 30+ years.
Or...don't!

Certainly not the game rules!

Ouch! Well done!

 warboss wrote:
I just peeked at the KS comment section and it looks like Dave has simmered down a little. Geez, I never thought someone could beat out lolafett's comment signal to noise ration but Dave officially did. At least with lola, he seems to randomly pound on the keyboard for minutes at a time to get his wall of texts that I page up through; Dave just cheated and was copy pasting.

The best part is that he also backed Heavy Gear Blitz, which is known not to do the best job of communicating.

Also, Mekton Zero (last update in 2014, and no sign of being production ready).

He sure can pick 'em!

 Talizvar wrote:
I don't have dentures but my feet hurt too... You need to play that Half Life Episode 1 NOW.
Next you will say you had not played Diablo...

I still have all my teeth except for one wisdom tooth, sonny! Ironically, I picked up the Orange Box on day 1 for the xbox and only played portal. I know that'll get me a few years in videogame purgatory playing nothing but movie adaptation games while watching video game movies. I did play Diablo 1 though a bit back in the day... and bought the WOTC miniatures. I painted up the barbarian right away!

 Alpharius wrote:

He ran the business by the seat of his pants, learning through trial and error and experimentation.

Amazing how much things change in 30+ years.
Or...don't

Certainly not the game rules!

Ouch! Well done!

Thanks. Luckily sarcasm doesn't shrivel till well after age thirty but skill at getting nested quote tags apparently does. That took me a few previews and edits to get just that.

I look at the update and I just facepalm. Corp Comms is not PB's strong suit.

Boils back down to the same thing we've been saying:

1. PB need to sort out RRT's infantry problem in the ruleset.

2. PB should spawn off another line of RPG supplement with larger scale minis, to support user demand.

The problem with (2) is whether they are legally allowed to do that. I suspect they are trying to sneak some larger product in as part of RRT because they are not legally allowed, and a separate product line would be taken as clear evidence of violation.

PB needs to develop the ability to see from different perspectives, so as to stop confusing us.

And Wave 2 info would be appreciated too.

 warboss wrote:

I just peeked at the KS comment section and it looks like Dave has simmered down a little. Geez, I never thought someone could beat out lolafett's comment signal to noise ration but Dave officially did. At least with lola, he seems to randomly pound on the keyboard for minutes at a time to get his wall of texts that I page up through; Dave just cheated and was copy pasting.

You mean Dave pulled a Kevin?

But yeah, Dave's stuff went waaaaay beyond appropriate, through unfunny and to downright annoying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lynxx, you forgot one...

3. PB needs to do a Wave 2 update

 Stormonu wrote:

Lynxx, you forgot one...

3. PB needs to do a Wave 2 update

Sigh, I did say they need to...

At this point, having a proper Wave 2 update would quieten a lot of complaints, but let's pretend we can put a request in that PB would honour, what actually would you want to know?

For me, it's along the lines of:

1. What is the status of each item? i.e., in modeling, design refinement, sprue-cutting, actual production.
2. Any specific concerns that may be of interest? Problems with details on a specific design, or raw material supply shortage.
3. Target milestones and progress? There should be more than one milestone ("delivery by end 2015" is an end goal), things like "Supers to be ready for production by August '15", or "FPA to complete refinement by July" is better.
4. Any other risks that needs mitigation?

Essentially it's project management, more about assurance that there are problem (there always are problems) but these are being watched and handled. Most of the time I'm just going to nod and go "hmm, ok", it's more to assure me that someone is tending to the fires and know what is going on.

No more of that "Oh I took a hands-off approach" crap.

Well, my stuff finally got here yesterday! So much plastic...

That concludes this threads good feels quota for the next 2 months at least !

So.. considering the first packages went out in August of last year IIRC (the post gencon first contacts), that only took 10 months. Out of curiosity, were you the first in South Africa to get it or have stores had it in stock for months? In any case, congrats regardless. Don't forget to check the contents for broken antenna and such.

 warboss wrote:
Out of curiosity, were you the first in South Africa to get it or have stores had it in stock for months?

Wargaming isn't all that big here, most stuff outside GW/FFG has to be ordered from overseas anyway. As for being the first, there is another guy that due to location probably got his before me. I wonder if I'm the last in the world though...

 warboss wrote:
Don't forget to check the contents for broken antenna and such.

Had a quick look last night, nothing appears broken. Tomorrow I will be trying to get some stuff built so will have a proper look then.

I did a quick check of mine as well when I got it mainly of veritech antenna and battlepod barrels. I didn't find anything at first glance but I haven't ever taken a close look.

edit: For those who have played the game, does it say anywhere specifically that attacking is done on a unit by unit basis? As in you activate your unit A and attack enemy unit B? That is in the example but it doesn't specifically limit you to only that. If that is the case, can you attack anyone in that unit? If that is the case, is there a way to split fire to more than one unit? Or is the only example given a red herring and you attack on a model to model basis but activate your own stuff on a unit basis.

 Evil_Toast wrote:
Well, my stuff finally got here yesterday! So much plastic...
That concludes this threads good feels quota for the next 2 months at least !

Hazzah!
Good for you! With the guides for reference, you will have hours and hours or error free assembly of the UEDF models!
I would suggest some cutting of the 90 degree leg and green stuff'ing it to slightly more natural poses on the Valkyrie.
I "enjoyed" the assembly it just is painful if you are in a rush to play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
I did a quick check of mine as well when I got it mainly of veritech antenna and battlepod barrels. I didn't find anything at first glance but I haven't ever taken a close look.
edit: For those who have played the game, does it say anywhere specifically that activation and attacking is done on a unit by unit basis? As in you activate your unit A and attack enemy unit B? That is in the example but it doesn't specifically limit you to only that. If that is the case, can you attack anyone in that unit? If that is the case, is there a way to split fire to more than one unit? Or is the only example given a red herring and you attack on a model to model basis but activate your own stuff on a unit basis.

Activation is unit by unit (yours then his) forgot a few times and did the "I go, you go" of the whole army. gosh-darn GW habits.
Never mind using the command points to steal the initiative.
As far as I could tell we could shoot at whatever we wanted, I am pretty sure when in close formation you then would have the choice to fire all at once at a target for the to-hit bonus.

I may not have much on RRT game stories for a bit: my magpie friends got into SW: Armada and dragged me into it too <sigh> so I will have to continue painting so I can tempt them away again with something "shiny".

IIRC there is a way to influence activation with CP but it has been so long I would have to look it up.

P. 12 - you can spend a CP to steal an activation or block your opponent from stealing activation

 Talizvar wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I did a quick check of mine as well when I got it mainly of veritech antenna and battlepod barrels. I didn't find anything at first glance but I haven't ever taken a close look.
edit: For those who have played the game, does it say anywhere specifically that activation and attacking is done on a unit by unit basis? As in you activate your unit A and attack enemy unit B? That is in the example but it doesn't specifically limit you to only that. If that is the case, can you attack anyone in that unit? If that is the case, is there a way to split fire to more than one unit? Or is the only example given a red herring and you attack on a model to model basis but activate your own stuff on a unit basis.

Activation is unit by unit (yours then his) forgot a few times and did the "I go, you go" of the whole army. gosh-darn GW habits.
Never mind using the command points to steal the initiative.
As far as I could tell we could shoot at whatever we wanted, I am pretty sure when in close formation you then would have the choice to fire all at once at a target for the to-hit bonus.

I may not have much on RRT game stories for a bit: my magpie friends got into SW: Armada and dragged me into it too <sigh> so I will have to continue painting so I can tempt them away again with something "shiny".

Activation is definitely unit by unit but my question was about shooting. They don't actually say if shooting is model to model or unit to unit (like 40k). The example that they give is broad but says unit to unit but an example is not a hard and fast rule. I couldn't find anything in the rules sentances about it anywhere.

Activation can be stolen for one command point. If you have any models with Leadership, you roll 3d6; if not, you roll 1d6. If anything comes up a 6, you steal it. The original winner steals it back the same way/cost. I read that yesterday when I was looking for the shooting rules. It seems like a tiny lost opportunity for granularity as its another all or nothing rule. I would have preferred that you roll your actual Ld # of dice instead of 3d6 regardless but YMMV.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
IIRC there is a way to influence activation with CP but it has been so long I would have to look it up.

I thought you and judgedoug had a regular robotech thing going?

 warboss wrote:
Activation is definitely unit by unit but my question was about shooting. They don't actually say if shooting is model to model or unit to unit (like 40k). The example that they give is broad but says unit to unit but an example is not a hard and fast rule. I couldn't find anything in the rules sentences about it anywhere.

I will have to drag out the rule book to confirm, but I will go with my 98% sure off the top of my head.
You can run each model independently, and shoot independently, it is a model by model basis of shooting.
<edit>Just noticed: to be more clear: you move, shoot and all those other phases all within each unit activation.

BUT: Firing missiles you can distribute them amongst other models within 2" of your target.

AND: You can have another model nearby share the damage of an attack (a form of a GW rule of "Look out sir! (argh!!!)").

So there is a bit of interaction with other models but enemy models can block line of sight to other models to ensure that Glaug can be hidden well so you cannot see him but he does not have that problem since models from the same unit do not block line of sight....

NEVER depend on buildings to block line of sight, sneeze at them and you are as exposed as it gets.

 warboss wrote:
I thought you and judgedoug had a regular robotech thing going?

We played when Wave 1 came out. But you know how it goes, there are always more toys. (Take a look at my recent overviews of Lion Rampant and Ronin, for example.)

Talizvar is right; shooting is by model.

 Talizvar wrote:

I will have to drag out the rule book to confirm, but I will go with my 98% sure off the top of my head.
You can run each model independently, and shoot independently, it is a model by model basis of shooting.

BUT: Firing missiles you can distribute them amongst other models within 2" of your target.

AND: You can have another model nearby share the damage of an attack (a form of a GW rule of "Look out sir! (argh!!!)").

So there is a bit of interaction with other models but enemy models can block line of sight to other models to ensure that Glaug can be hidden well so you cannot see him but he does not have that problem since models from the same unit do not block line of sight....

NEVER depend on buildings to block line of sight, sneeze at them and you are as exposed as it gets.

If in doubt, 98% it!

In all seriousness, if you find it explicitly written in the rulebook let me know. Maybe I durped while reading it (multiple times) but the only reference I found to it was in the example. The gencon and kickstarer videos had individual model moving and shooting but I can't find it anywhere clearly in the rules. From my reading, it sounds like you move all the models in the squadron first (in whatever order you choose), then you shoot all the models in the squadron in whatever order you choose against the squadron that you designated as a target. I can't find anything to the contrary per the exact RAW (rules as written). They seem like they could be read either way but then the example supports option B below and that seems like the only RAI (rules as intended) intent that I can find.. The stuff you listed is correct that you can then share damage (both as the attacker and defender) but doesn't actually conflict with the above.

Do you:

A. Activate a squadron. Choose a single mecha in that squadron and move then shoot with it at any enemy mecha. Repeat with the next model in the squadron until done.

or

B. Activate a squadron. Choose a single mecha in that squadron and move it. Repeat with the next mecha's movement and so on until all mecha in that squadron have moved. Designate an enemy squadron as a target. Choose a single mecha in your squadron and shoot one enemy model in the designated enemy squadron with it. Repeat with the next mecha in the squadron versus any model in the enemy designated squadron until you are done.


I think the rules support B as I can't find anything that either excludes B nor supports A... but that isn't how the gameplay videos from official sources did things IIRC. The gencon videos though were limited in that they were tiny one support card vs one support card so didn't have multiple squadrons but IIRC they moved then shot friendly models in the activated squadron individually instead of as a squadron per step.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I thought you and judgedoug had a regular robotech thing going?

We played when Wave 1 came out. But you know how it goes, there are always more toys. (Take a look at my recent overviews of Lion Rampant and Ronin, for example.)

Talizvar is right; shooting is by model.

Thanks for the clarification. So is anyone actually currently playing this game in the thread on a regular basis? You're out along with judgedoug, mike sent his stuff off to be painted and prior to that was mostly solo'ing games IIRC, forar's friends sound like they've been 98% over robotech for about a year and he sold half his stuff (which might have been his dastardly plan all along), and Talizvar tried but seems pooped out. Albertorius assembled and painted a bunch but I don't recall him saying anything about playing.

As for the shooting, can you find it in the rulebook later tonight if you get a chance? It's not that I don't believe you (that is how the official video demos went) but I really can't find it in the rulebook explictly stated. All the actual rules I've found could easily be read either way.

I will look.
I was so sure you move everything and then shoot.
As I pointed out though, GW may have made me assume a few things so I will confirm and will specifically list page and quote where possible if I find anything.
<edit> You RAW hardcase you.

Hobbylink has a few of the Hasagawa 1/4000 SDF-1 (DYLR ver) kits in:

http://hlj.com/product/hsgmc05


About $50

Warboss, we also could not find a definitive answer to whether a unit goes through the steps or whether each model in a unit goes through the steps. I believe we reasoned that the whole unit goes through steps based on the language on p. 14, where once a unit has finished a step, it cannot go back to a previous step.

I believe that models in a unit can attack models from different target units, however.

Looking at that model, the thing that I am most jealous of is the clear flight stand...

 Cyporiean wrote:
Hobbylink has a few of the Hasagawa 1/4000 SDF-1 (DYLR ver) kits in:

http://hlj.com/product/hsgmc05

Spoiler:

About $50

Looks very nice and is over 11 inches long which is nice. Also, inb4 Forar says it's obviously 1/3998 scale and Hasagawa need to go scale or go home!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Warboss, we also could not find a definitive answer to whether a unit goes through the steps or whether each model in a unit goes through the steps. I believe we reasoned that the whole unit goes through steps based on the language on p. 14, where once a unit has finished a step, it cannot go back to a previous step.

I believe that models in a unit can attack models from different target units, however.

Ok, cool, so I'm not imagining it. It is such a basic part of a wargame and it is very odd (but very Palladium) that it doesn't seem to be spelled out explicitly. If anyone else finds something to the contrary, please post the rulebook page quote as it would be much appreciated.

In a way, it seems like a good way to delineate the mass battle game from the (abandoned) skirmish game. In one you activate, move then shoot as a unit but in skirmish you activate as a unit but move and shoot individually.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Looking at that model, the thing that I am most jealous of is the clear flight stand...

That's obviously a photoshop? Plastics technology just isn't there yet!