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Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Asterios wrote:
sooooooo in other words you got lazy.


I don't know if you've been to Gencon, but it's kind of insane. So no, I prioritized gak that I was excited about over wasting time trying to get Kevin's attention.

And then a fething death in the family happened for our driver and we had to abandon our Sunday plans, which was mostly downtime to wrap things up (like go mock Palladium).

If that was sarcasm or humour, it'd be appreciated if it wasn't worded as an accusation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 14:45:39


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 warboss wrote:
Was it a rumor from the same site that talked about the blockade of the booth? And, no, it's not lazy to just want to enjoy your vacation. Few people (although they do exist) get enjoyment from simply antagonizing others even when completely warranted. Did I hope that someone would confront him in an interview? Yes... did I think it likely that a gamer would risk getting kicked out by a vindictive Palladium staffer after interviewing them and not accepting spin as an answer? No. Your talk of the great gamer uprising against palladium (whether at gencon, on the store shelves, or in your local court) is just talk. If people don't like Palladium and what they do/make, the best/only thing to do is not buy. Admitting that you're effectively powerless (unless you want to spend more money than you've already sunk into this) is the first step towards healing.


actually no it was not from that crazy site this was a live stream feed, and didn't say anyone had to hound him, just ask, "wheres wave 2?" and considering Forar is outspoken as the next regarding this, you would think he would have asked.

and what talk of great gamer uprising have I mentioned? that came and went with nobody practically buying their product.

am i powerless? no, only the useless and foolish say that, one voice can have great power, and to not believe that is already admitting defeat.

will I take PB to court if they fail on several areas? yes, will it cost me anything? no. will PB lose? yes, will they be paying my lawyer? yes.

will the FTC step in? most likely

Will their states AG step in? not so sure.

Does PB have a way to pull their collective behinds out from the fire? yes, do they know how? probably not and even if they did they would not since it would be admitting defeat.

if someone does take PB to court and wins will it be heard all over the world? probably not PB will push for a gag order in regards to the case and anything involving it, so as to not cause a flood of similar suits to follow, on another note has PB been to the court houses in the past few months? yes their name was on a docket, for what ? have no clue since its not listed and can't access it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 14:46:17


Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Oh.

You were serious.

lol
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




You've got to remember who you're dealing with...

The one person who makes Jorel look rational.

OK, not really.
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





the Mothership...

I had a long response typed out but then I realized I'd just be feeding him and then the communists would win.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 warboss wrote:
I had a long response typed out but then I realized I'd just be feeding him and then the communists would win.


blah blah blah

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




That's waaaaaaay dated, holmes. It's been "then the terrorists win" for at least 13 or 14 years.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Merijeek wrote:
That's waaaaaaay dated, holmes. It's been "then the terrorists win" for at least 13 or 14 years.


what did you expect his response was lame so it might as well be outdated, does communism even still exist? I'm talking pure communism.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





the Mothership...

This is a Palladium thread. Being out of date for less than 15 years is a lofty future goal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asterios wrote:
Merijeek wrote:
That's waaaaaaay dated, holmes. It's been "then the terrorists win" for at least 13 or 14 years.


what did you expect his response was lame so it might as well be outdated, does communism even still exist? I'm talking pure communism.


Cuba came the closest in intent and theory but no, it never actually existing in its purest state thanks to human nature. In any case, you should change your sig to "I'm a gonna sue palladium soon!". It'll save you a heck of a lot of typing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/03 15:34:45


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Can we just thank Kevin Obama for all of this?

And then get back on topic?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 warboss wrote:
This is a Palladium thread. Being out of date for less than 15 years is a lofty future goal.


if going by those parameters then this thread is to futuristic, since PB is so far behind the times they are still creating ancient history.

@Alpharius its hard to stay on topic when PB gives us nothing, no wave 2, no pics, no product, no update other then "Soon" and so on, we have nothing to talk about so we go off on tangents.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 15:45:17


Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







At that point, it probably would be a good idea to NOT post then.

PB is giving somewhat regular 'updates' - even if there isn't much content/update info in them.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Alpharius wrote:
At that point, it probably would be a good idea to NOT post then.

PB is giving somewhat regular 'updates' - even if there isn't much content/update info in them.


I'm thinking "PB''s updates are more for them to think they are doing something, me i'm surprised KS allows them to hock their other product on their site like that which really tells me more about how KS is run and if I even want to be involved with a site which accepts no responsibility or anything like that.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

The post GenCon reporting will be something to look for.
I really am curious what interest PB got.
I suspect much like Forar, the crowds were drawn away from the PB booth by more exciting bling in other areas.

Yes, if I was at GenCon I think I would have spent 10 minutes at the PB booth for the "wave 2" question and then leave without looking back.

Do you think that if Kevin could get more models made by GHQ and no wave 2 he could go back to GenCon next year?

Forget it, I know the answer to that.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Talizvar wrote:


Do you think that if Kevin could get more models made by GHQ and no wave 2 he could go back to GenCon next year?

Forget it, I know the answer to that.


if PB has no wave 2 by next GenCon, me thinks it will be because there is no longer a PB and Kevin is in the poor house or worse.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Asterios wrote:
 Talizvar wrote:
Do you think that if Kevin could get more models made by GHQ and no wave 2 he could go back to GenCon next year?
Forget it, I know the answer to that.
if PB has no wave 2 by next GenCon, me thinks it will be because there is no longer a PB and Kevin is in the poor house or worse.
You are such an optimist, I only wish.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Talizvar wrote:
Asterios wrote:
 Talizvar wrote:
Do you think that if Kevin could get more models made by GHQ and no wave 2 he could go back to GenCon next year?
Forget it, I know the answer to that.
if PB has no wave 2 by next GenCon, me thinks it will be because there is no longer a PB and Kevin is in the poor house or worse.
You are such an optimist, I only wish.


we can only hope since I gave up on PB ever delivering wave 2 or other generations.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

To anyone who went Gencon - was there a noticeable dent in product available at the booth between Thurs & Sun? Did it look like PB had made a significant number of sales?

It never ends well 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, not that I noticed. But I was busy on Saturday and Sunday with tournaments so I didn't pay that much attention. In general, I would say gencon was pretty quiet for them. Tons of booths had more people or demos

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Innocent SDF-1 Bridge Bunny





SDF-1

Even if it Was quite the post GC update will read how it was the best and how they meet some great people and sales were da best ever. During GC Thomas Roach said he spoke to Kevin/messiah and he told Tom how it's the best GC ever and sales were the best in years.
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Two thoughts;

As an attendee I did not notice a plummeting of their stock quantity in my wanderings between Thursday and Saturday (when I pointedly checked them out), however, a casual glance and the right timing could show the same of other booths that I know for a fact were selling hard, they just kept restocking.

Do I think that's what happened? Not at all! But it's possible, and without someone time lapsing their space all weekend, it's tough to say.

Secondly, keep a perspective on their baseline. It's entirely possible for the booth to not be terribly busy and have lukewarm sales (compared to others), AND for it to be their best Gencon ever.

Given who we're working with, I wouldn't call them mutually exclusive statements.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Best Gen Con ever could simply be because he didn't get into a screaming match with anyone, or that he was surrounded only by fan friends, or didn't catch any negative waves.

Better sales than recent years isn't surprising given that they haven't had a strong release in ages. Even if Robotech's KS development is a sucking mire it's at least something new that appeals to a market outside of rpg people buying mugs and key chains. With the convention models Robotech currently has 16-20 skus? Compared to their RPG materials that introduce maybe 2-3 in a given year. (the robotech products probably have a higher net profit margin as well) It doesn't take much to honestly say "sales are up" especially when the company was in constant danger of folding since the crisis of treachery. When you're at absolute rock bottom any sales are positive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 04:36:52


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




well the live stream I was watching that just so happened to be pointing at the PB booth I saw they had 2 pallets of RRT game boxs, not counting expansion packs, and they ended up packing up most of it, sales were dismal on RRT product. and its not because of people blockading or whatever the PB booth, people just walked by mostly, the game board display did attract attention, but over all it looked like a flea market booth, PB for all the years they been working a GC booth have not really looked around at the other booths to understand presentation is 50% of sales, the other 50% is the product itself.
sadly PB was lacking in both.

as to convention exclusive items, couldn't tell (big difference between seeing if a big box or even an expansion box sells to a little card), but i'm gonna say they were not so great, my reasoning is , I haven't seen them show up on eBay, saw someone list an auction which had an Apache and an A-10 claiming they were RRT minis, just minus the cards and stats and packaging and such, but not a single Con Exclusive RRT item has shown up at all, and usually the site would have a smattering of them listed especially since new ones were "Allegedly" available.

Then matters were further compounded with PB displaying fan made product in their display booth which was not good.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 stanman wrote:
When you're at absolute rock bottom any sales are positive.


Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

If your previous best was $10,000 across the weekend, and you rake in $12,000, that's indeed the best!

Even if some booths were pulling that in per day or per hour. Not to say that every booth needs to be compared to the big dogs, but expectations, context, and vague statements like they're known for (especially when they're known for exaggeration) can get messy.

Similarly, the 30% off coupon is interesting. For all their proclamations about selling strongly, most people I know that attend conventions simply accept that anything purchased is likely at full MSRP, if not outright getting fleeced (it's practically a part of the convention experience at this point, barring the last day clearance sales).

Bringing the price down to retail'ish levels (give or take a couple bucks) is a bit surprising. I thought this product was selling strongly and stock was flying off shelves? Why the need to further incentivize people to pick some up?

Unless maybe it's not selling quite so strongly.

Exceptions granted for Sunday. Obviously not a universal, but if knocking 10 or 20% off helps reduce the amount of stuff to pack up and lug home, go for it.

But purely anecdotally, of those two pallet stacks, I didn't see them disappear as though devoured by a swarm of locusts like I did some other booths. As noted above, perhaps they restocked and I didn't notice, but while there were people milling around and buying things, any claims of being swamped or lineups I'd take with a grain of salt (again, unless we're going in comparison to their previous years, though they always seem to claim it was the greatest thing every!)

Now I guess we wait to see how long we have to wait for the post-Gencon info (newsletter and update). I empathize with being exhausted post-convention, I always need a couple of days to recoup from being 'on' for 3-4 days straight, plus booth set up and tear down, and we don't bring nearly as much stuff as they do.

In comparison to last year, we got an update post-Gencon on the following Saturday.

Hell, let's take a trip down memory lane;

Spoiler:
Update #154

Aug 23 2014

Gen Con Report

329 Comments

Like
56 likes
Hello, Wayne here. We’re all back from Gen Con. As most of you know, we did not get our miracle, so Robotech® RPG Tactics™ wasn't released from US Customs in time for us to have it for sale at the convention. However, we did have three copies with us to display, and we ran tons of demos. For more details, I’ll let Kevin’s Gen Con Report below fill you in.

-----------------

The reaction to Robotech® RPG Tactics™ at Gen Con was overwhelmingly positive. People liked what they saw, enjoyed the demos, and liked the game play and the size and detail of the game pieces. Some were positively giddy. I have to admit, so are we. We met many Kickstarter backers who expressed their support and appreciation for the game, and we returned the favor by shaking their hands and expressing our appreciation for them. It has been a long, rough journey, but the end product is sweet. Cannot wait till we can start shipping out product.

And speaking of product, I am happy to report that the first container from China has been released by US Customs and we expect to begin shipping by the end of next week. Meanwhile, Wayne Smith has been working with various out-of-house tech people to set up our new shipping hardware and software. We had technicians and IT people in and out of the office all week as they set up the new systems and customize software to suit our needs.

We have been hesitant to offer completion and shipping dates, because they seem to be constantly shifting and changing. I think the completion and ship dates for Container One changed something like four or five times; one day here, three days there, another two day delay later, then the boat left port a day and a half late, made up that day and a half at sea, only to see the container tagged and held up by US Customs for a random inspection. It seems crazy to us at Palladium Books to subject YOU to that kind of frustration and tension. However, many of you have told us that is exactly what you want to know. We aim to please, so we’ll tell you what we know, when we know it, but you need to realize that timetables and dates are almost certain to change. Shifting schedules in China, shipping schedules and intervention by Customs are beyond our control. Wayne is tentatively scheduled to visit the China factories in September to see the manufacturing process and help build strong communications. Things should start to move more quickly now, with a new container of product shipping every week or two. That said, the schedule has already slipped a bit from what we were told before Gen Con. Containers Two and Three were supposed to have shipped together this past week. However, a manufacturing delay has changed that.

At this time, Container Two is now tentatively scheduled to be packed around the middle to end of next week. We do not yet have a definitive date for when the ship will leave China. Probably between August 28 and September 3. Container Three should ship about one week later, and Container Four a week or so after that. This is the data we have at this time, but as noted, it often changes. By the way, these four containers should allow us to fulfill our Kickstarter obligations for Wave One. That’s everything, prints, accessories, etc.

Oh, and we only recently realized that the plastic blast template is not painted, and it is too late to do anything about it now. This detail slipped past all of us – Palladium, Ninja Division, the factory, everyone. Sorry. It still looks great, is a quality piece of plastic and is easy to use.

Meanwhile, we are working with Harmony Gold to be allowed to provide PDFs of the core rules and other key elements of play and other fun stuff.

Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave Two

Everything is in motion and Wave Two is coming. We’re also already thinking about the Masters Saga (Southern Cross), New Generation (Invid), and other eras and battle fronts (like the Zentraedi’s interplanetary war with the Invid!). I think you’ll like the things we are kicking around.

2014 Gen Con Report

Without Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to sell, there was no reason to bring our new, special storefront. We went with the usual rolling shelves and tables. We filled space with specialty items, prints and artwork we would not normally have brought along. Having Robotech® RPG Tactics™ at Gen Con was just not meant to be.

We met a large number of Kickstarter backers, and hundreds upon hundreds of gamers enjoyed demos of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We had three sample boxes of the main game on display (one completely laid out across a six foot table), and people got to examine the actual box contents, sprues, cards, rule book, etc. Most people were thrilled with what they saw and we got many positive comments about the quality.

We had a bunch of professionally painted Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game pieces in two glass display cases, along with some unpainted ones and a few sprues, so people could see them painted and unpainted. On the two small demo tables – one manned by Palladium’s very own Jeff Burke and the other by volunteer and uber Robotech® fan, Thomas Roache – were more game pieces professionally painted by Blue Table Painting. I think Jeff and Tom were surrounded (and I do mean surrounded) by interested fans non-stop throughout Gen Con, from morning till close of the Exhibit Hall. Unfortunately, that meant many of those passing by could not get a clear look at, or the chance to photograph, these superior painted pieces. Many did, however, get to play with them. Thank you, Tom and Jeff, for your hard work and tireless efforts to demonstrate Robotech® RPG Tactics™. And to Jeff Ruiz (NMI on the Palladium boards), who pitched in and did a good job running demos during breaks.

Carmen Bellaire manned the big Robotech® RPG Tactics™ demo table at the booth. Sadly, Carmen was not his usual flamboyant and fun self. His wallet was stolen two days before we were all to leave for Gen Con. As a Canadian, without his Enhanced Driver’s License, Carmen could not cross the border from Canada into the USA. He applied for an Emergency Passport, which seemed an unlikely turn of events. To everyone’s surprise and joy, Carmen was granted an Emergency Passport, and drove all Wednesday night to arrive at Gen Con by Thursday morning. Unfortunately, the stress of the theft (canceling credit cards and such), not knowing if he would get the passport in time, and very, very little sleep took a heavy toll on him. He looked tired, even a bit sickly, and as a result, his demos lacked the energy and zip that people have come to expect from Carmen. People still had fun, but it was not the rollicking Bellaire experience folks have come to expect. Moreover, Carmen had done a quick, basic painting of the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game pieces with an unconventional color scheme that some people did not think showed them off in their best light, but we had to make due with what we had.

There were only so many advance game pieces from China to paint and use in demos. Despite having Blue Table Painting do nearly 60 game pieces and two other gents painting up another 10 or so, there were only so many for demonstrations. Carmen’s table used a combination of the actual plastic game pieces and our old demo pieces. As the other two, smaller demo tables were in constant use and usually surrounded by players and spectators, the large table with the unconventional painted game pieces was what many people got to see, especially when just walking by.

Pat Jakubowski ran two or three “official” Robotech® RPG Tactics™ games as part of Palladium’s block of 50+ Gen Con gaming events. From all reports, Pat rocked these games and players had a blast. I had several players come to the Palladium booth the next day specifically to tell me how much fun they had in his games. Awesome. I also had several people who played in demos as well as these games tell me they thought Robotech® RPG Tactics™ was fast, fun and a winner destined to be a big hit. (From your mouths to God’s ears.) Many people also commented on the quality and level of detail, and how much they were looking forward to the game’s release. Fantastic.


Things that stand out to me;

We have been hesitant to offer completion and shipping dates, because they seem to be constantly shifting and changing... However, many of you have told us that is exactly what you want to know. We aim to please, so we’ll tell you what we know, when we know it, but you need to realize that timetables and dates are almost certain to change.


That was late August. Half a year later, we finally got a taste of wave two info. It has been nearly half a year since then, and less than 5 months until alleged delivery of wave two.

Everything is in motion and Wave Two is coming. We’re also already thinking about the Masters Saga (Southern Cross), New Generation (Invid), and other eras and battle fronts (like the Zentraedi’s interplanetary war with the Invid!)


Interesting that the Big History Of Everything included a callback to this (the Zentraedi/Invid war). I'd forgotten it was something they were emphasizing back then. It does make it a touch funnier to see them proclaim that they're working on other series when they can't even deliver what's on... their... plate. Oh, yeah, Palladium ADHD; can't work on and finish one thing, have to have ten more lined up!

Without Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to sell, there was no reason to bring our new, special storefront. We went with the usual rolling shelves and tables. We filled space with specialty items, prints and artwork we would not normally have brought along.


"New Special Storefront", eh? Because this year they did have RRT, but all I saw were rolling shelves and tables, along with prints and artwork. What happened to the special storefront?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 15:02:16


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Forar wrote:
"New Special Storefront", eh? Because this year they did have RRT, but all I saw were rolling shelves and tables, along with prints and artwork. What happened to the special storefront?


that was their new special store front, they had RRT on the tables
   
Made in us
Innocent SDF-1 Bridge Bunny





SDF-1

Even with NMI doing demos the game still isn't selling. Just look behind him.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you look to the right of the lady in blue you'll see packs of expansion boxes not selling.
[Thumb - image.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 21:11:02


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

NMI is the unhappy-looking bald heavy-set big guy in front of what appears to be a single pallet of product? That's all that they brought to sell? 50 boxes plus a smattering of small items (on the table in the background)? Even if they sold 3x that, they wouldn't cover the cost of attending.

And they had no news or Wave 2 product? They're not running a big demo corps? Why even bother going to GenCon with a big booth that's mostly idle?
____

Edited to replace previous description with the more euphemistic "heavy-set big guy". Sorry about that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 06:25:50


   
Made in us
Innocent SDF-1 Bridge Bunny





SDF-1

Yes the bald fatty is NMI. They had way more product there.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The guys on the right looks like he just smelled Kevin's BS.
[Thumb - image.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 21:27:51


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 JohnHwangDD wrote:
NMI is the unhappy-looking bald fatty in front of what appears to be a single pallet of product? That's all that they brought to sell? 50 boxes plus a smattering of small items (on the table in the background)? Even if they sold 3x that, they wouldn't cover the cost of attending.

And they had no news or Wave 2 product? They're not running a big demo corps? Why even bother going to GenCon with a big booth that's mostly idle?


They pretty much always have one that size, but instead of having RRT stuff they typically just have more art and books scattered around.

And I'm sure NMI just looks pissy because Kevin told him he's not allowed to ban demo customers who refuse to kiss his ass.
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





the Mothership...

The talk about NMI's appearance is unwarranted; I'm sure plenty of folks (including myself) posting in this thread never had a hope to be runway models either. Can we limit the criticism of NMI to his rather North Korean style of forum management/hero worship and his documented inability to get through a demo without screwing up a rule in each and every interaction between two models?
   
 
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