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Well, the latest PBWU is out. There may or may not be a KS Update out this weekend, but based on the PBWU, it's unlikely to have anything of note.

The important parts.
"Especially with Wave 2 RRT products coming in the months ahead.". With nothing to show for it at this stage. I believe Kevin. He seems trustworthy and reliable.

Robotech Tactics "flash sale". Most things 30% off (Zentradi Addons excepted). Some RPG titles also 30% off.

Convention Exclusives due to ship next week. But are to remain available for KS Backers after that. Please give them money. They seem needy.

Conventional Vehicles now essentially have the caveat of "Preorder, but if we don't get sufficient quantities, we may not do them.". Which is really strange to me, because nothing on the current offering is unique to RRT. If the Cats Eye, or a specially minted Comanchero, that'd be different. But everything on the current list, is current GHQ stock. All that's needed is printed material for the blisterpacks (blister card and stat cards). And given the former has already been shown, and the latter should be trivial once the stats are done, why is that an issue?

Speaking of, the last KS Update was titled "Exclusives Order Deadline Extended". Looks like the next one is going to need to be as well (current deadline expires in less than 35 hours). Because they're still working on it. They'll be done, you guessed it, soon.

Then there's a couple lines giving no real information on upcoming RPG titles. It's scant, but it's more than Wave 2 gets mentioned.

Then 4 pages of advertising for "branded" clothing and bags.

Then 2 significant entries on products that Kevin likes, followed by the usual cut and paste of their gaming catalog.

And that's it, pretty much. Nothing new. Things happening "soon" though.

 warboss wrote:
They're out there but admittedly it's a fringe case for terrain and in all likelihood 28mm. LOL, at 6mm it would end up being the UNSPACY HQ that got destroyed in Macross II. I wouldn't use it in Robotech but this is from my store's 40k apoc game that I attended a few years back.

It is awesome that your gaming group makes huge stuff; however, when stuff gets that big, I think one should be playing 6mm Epic, rather than 30mm 40k... Even in Epic, a 4-foot Mega-Gargant stands nearly a foot tall...

I agree somewhat. I limited my participation in apoc games to 1-2 times a year as a change of pace since I frankly didn't like the "just remove whole units with no interaction on your part" gameplay but it allowed me to do stupid stuff occasionally like field a drop pod of all the eternal warrior HQs superfriends (and one legion of doom member) that took down an emperor titan together. I stopped going to the apoc events when GW forced that gameplay style into every game of 40k as standard.

 warboss wrote:
I agree somewhat. I limited my participation in apoc games to 1-2 times a year as a change of pace since I frankly didn't like the "just remove whole units with no interaction on your part" gameplay but it allowed me to do stupid stuff occasionally like field a drop pod of all the eternal warrior HQs superfriends (and one legion of doom member) that took down an emperor titan together. I stopped going to the apoc events when GW forced that gameplay style into every game of 40k as standard.

Armageddon dropping in an entire SM chapter house it was ugly. and that was just me.

Wow... just took a peek at the weekly update and we now have MORE information given to us in one update about a stupid fething sound system with LED lights to jazz up your next wedding or bar mitzvah than we've gotten about wave 2 in 6 months.

 warboss wrote:
Wow... just took a peek at the weekly update and we now have MORE information given to us in one update about a stupid fething sound system with LED lights to jazz up your next wedding or bar mitzvah than we've gotten about wave 2 in 6 months.

yes sad isn't it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Wow... just took a peek at the weekly update and we now have MORE information given to us in one update about a stupid fething sound system with LED lights to jazz up your next wedding or bar mitzvah than we've gotten about wave 2 in 6 months.

yes sad isn't it.

who knows maybe we might get a KS update Sunday night after their meeting just for them to tell us about the conventional stuff and how there will be no deadline on the con exclusive items?

 warboss wrote:
Wow... just took a peek at the weekly update and we now have MORE information given to us in one update about a stupid fething sound system with LED lights to jazz up your next wedding or bar mitzvah than we've gotten about wave 2 in 6 months.

Yeah, that's because that sound and light system has that super special quality known as "existing".

Some manufacturers make fairly large buildings and if you pack them on your table in a realistic manner, their height becomes an issue to the lack of vertical distance rules. I see a lot of people play with the DZC stuff and have single buildings per block. Nothing wrong with that but I plan on something more elaborate.
I don't expect calculus or trig, simple movement rules for height are not difficult to achieve.
Building damage also seems ill-conceived.

The rules overall are pretty good but they do have these points that I find needing houserules. Since I am not a tournament gamer this isn't such an issue for me, but it would be nice to see them fleshed out more.
Height rules would also give us three dimensional space battles. I was expecting some interesting rules for space battles but we didn't get any. I was envisioning maybe multiple planes of table space.

 n815e wrote:

Height rules would also give us three dimensional space battles. I was expecting some interesting rules for space battles but we didn't get any. I was envisioning maybe multiple planes of table space.

yeah love how they say we can have space battles and thats it, they don't bother with orientation or anything, case remember in space there is no up or down, there is just your orientation of it, so how would that effect directional fire? and such?

Far be it from me to defend the biggest group of jackasses in gaming, but there is no "fast" minis game that uses 3D or vector movement.

who wants fast? I want big and fun. my last big battle was Armageddon chapter house of my Kraken Guard and a support unit of IG's killing greenskins, it was big it was bloody and it was not over in a day, let alone an hour or two

Asterios wrote:
who wants fast? I want big and fun. my last big battle was Armageddon chapter house of my Kraken Guard and a support unit of IG's killing greenskins, it was big it was bloody and it was not over in a day, let alone an hour or two

... so throw a couple thousand points per side on a basement over a weekend.

How quickly paced the game (mechanically) should be is incidental to the scope one plays at in terms of rules. More interactions can bump up potential options/considerations, but how long it takes to calculate range/modifiers one to one isn't particularly relevant to the scope of conflict.

Like, I'm not one to defend the game, obviously, but this feels like a complete non-sequitur.

Every miniatures game uses three dimensions. Otherwise it would be a boardgame.

That seems like a spurious statement. Surely there are ground or sea based miniatures games that don't worry about height/elevation.

RRT even says it ignores elevation on page 10 of the rule book.

Apologies for the pedantry, but stating it definitively like that is just begging to either fail immediately or be 'no true Scotsman'd'. (as in, "oh, X isn't a real mini's game")

 Forar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
who wants fast? I want big and fun. my last big battle was Armageddon chapter house of my Kraken Guard and a support unit of IG's killing greenskins, it was big it was bloody and it was not over in a day, let alone an hour or two

... so throw a couple thousand points per side on a basement over a weekend.

How quickly paced the game (mechanically) should be is incidental to the scope one plays at in terms of rules. More interactions can bump up potential options/considerations, but how long it takes to calculate range/modifiers one to one isn't particularly relevant to the scope of conflict.

Like, I'm not one to defend the game, obviously, but this feels like a complete non-sequitur.

look at 40K a player wants to send their guy up a building he can only go his allotted distance, not a free up.

also only certain things can fire at fliers and such, because to do otherwise would be silly.

Asterios wrote:
look at 40K a player wants to send their guy up a building he can only go his allotted distance, not a free up.

also only certain things can fire at fliers and such, because to do otherwise would be silly.

I still don't understand what this has to do with the game being fast paced or how distance is calculated.

Going back over the conversation, it started about height and allowing for more gradiation in space battles, as opposed to a single 2D plane. Meri pointed out that no 'fast paced' games use such complicated tracking, you responded with a comment on game size/scope/scale.

It feels like there's a post or three missing from the conversation.

 Forar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
look at 40K a player wants to send their guy up a building he can only go his allotted distance, not a free up.

also only certain things can fire at fliers and such, because to do otherwise would be silly.

I still don't understand what this has to do with the game being fast paced or how distance is calculated.

Going back over the conversation, it started about height and allowing for more gradiation in space battles, as opposed to a single 2D plane. Meri pointed out that no 'fast paced' games use such complicated tracking, you responded with a comment on game size/scope/scale.

It feels like there's a post or three missing from the conversation.

the original convo was about pods and their leaping abilities say their movement is 10 they are here and there is a building 3" wide with a space 2" between it and a river that goes 3" wide, and yet the rules say they can leap both building and river and land on the other side with no problem like they walked across a field.

Uh, what? Did you even read LEAP? No Rick....

You can make a SINGLE Leap in a turn up to 5 inches. if you have a Speed of 5. 7 inches if you have a Speed of 7 like the Glaug.

So you can move up to the building, leap over it, then up to the river front. If the river is rough terrain you would move the rest of your movement into the river at the cost of 2 inches of movement per inch moved.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Uh, what? Did you even read LEAP? No Rick....

You can make a SINGLE Leap in a turn up to 5 inches.

So you can move up to the building, leap over it, then up to the river front. If the river is rough terrain you would move the rest of your movement into the river at the cost of 2 inches of movement per inch moved.

wrong, I was using it as a baseline without breaking any PB official rules by giving actual distance, but fine we shall go with 5" you have a 2" wide building (that is say 6" tall), with a 1" wide forest followed by another 2" wide river, the pod is right next to the building, according to the rules it can leap over all of that land on the other side with no ill effects. also forget they can't see where they are landing and such.

Which is a very big difference from making two leaps as you had in the previous example...now you turn it into a single leap by shortening the distances.

If you assume a power assisted leap like in Battle tech you can adjust mid-leap and so you don't need to see where you land so that isn't relevant.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Which is a very big difference from making two leaps as you had in the previous example...now you turn it into a single leap by shortening the distances.

If you assume a power assisted leap like in Battle tech you can adjust mid-leap and so you don't need to see where you land so that isn't relevant.

but in Battletech they also have rules so such a leap is not so easy either., plus they also limit the height distance leaped too.

All PB did was give mechs a VTOL function and called it leap.

Leap is interesting since it's rule is much like jetpacks in 40k: it is sometimes critical if you move then leap or leap then move.
If buildings are further than 4" away it takes 2 turns to go to rooftop to rooftop (can move 5 but need to get base from roof to roof).
Guardian Veritechs still mess me up that they cannot "jet/hover" onto a rooftop.

 Talizvar wrote:
Leap is interesting since it's rule is much like jetpacks in 40k: it is sometimes critical if you move then leap or leap then move.
If buildings are further than 4" away it takes 2 turns to go to rooftop to rooftop (can move 5 but need to get base from roof to roof).
Guardian Veritechs still mess me up that they cannot "jet/hover" onto a rooftop.

Why do the guardians mess you up? They have flight and can ignore underlying terrain and hence can freely land on anything.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Leap is interesting since it's rule is much like jetpacks in 40k: it is sometimes critical if you move then leap or leap then move.
If buildings are further than 4" away it takes 2 turns to go to rooftop to rooftop (can move 5 but need to get base from roof to roof).
Guardian Veritechs still mess me up that they cannot "jet/hover" onto a rooftop.

Why do the guardians mess you up? They have flight and can ignore underlying terrain and hence can freely land on anything.

Mike they do not have flight, they have hover which allows them to hover just above the ground, so no they cannot hover up to a roof top.

in other words Hover does not allow them to ignore that 6" high building and or land on it.

Hrm.

Hover
*snip*
A hovering mecha isn't actually touching the ground, so it treats rough terrain as open terrain for purposes of movement. Although a hovering mecha may ignore rough terrain, it cannot ignore vertical surfaces taller than the mecha unless it has some other special ability allowing it to do so

So... depending on how high up the Guardian is modeled, I guess it's both; it would be able to mount a structure if it's on a high enough peg?

This little bit of reading led to the further realization that despite all alleged efforts to be show accurate, Battloids can neither hover nor fly? Because they definitely did that in the show.

Go, go, gadget guardian flight stand!

Um, ALL Modes for the VT have Flight.....even Battloid....try again


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hint....turn the mecha card over

Actually I was looking in the book, which is laid out in a somewhat counterintuitive way at a casual glance (in that I looked at the Fighter and saw a bunch of flying related stuff, saw the Guardian and noted Hover, and then nothing for the Battloid).

Easy there tiger.



But thanks for correcting the oversight, if in a somewhat... aggressive fashion.

Actually I was responding to Rick. The information is pretty clearly placed in the same spot as it is with the Destroids and all the other non-variable mecha. It seems counter-intuitive with the variable modes since some people expect it to show under each and every mode. I made the same mistake originally and after a bit realized the error. It's right under the MDC because it applies to all modes so is redundant to write in for each individual mode.

Okay... glad we had this discussion.
So a battleoid form Veritech has flight.
Am I the only idiot here? (correction, others admit missing as well... still in shock)
Now it can do all the things in the shows.
I am a wee bit upset not seeing this earlier.
Now going back and reading cards a little more critically.