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2015/09/11 01:44:39
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Maybe I was the only one that faithfully took it the prescribed number of back and forths?
I'm still awaiting a response on mine.
As am I. I'm beginning to think my BBB complaint has fallen into a black hole of some sort. It's got to be close to, if not past 30 days since I sent it in. So far, I've gotten nothing back via e-mail or otherwise.
Unfortunately, I didn't save what I sent to the BBB, it was similar to what I sent to the AG, but for my "resolution" I added that I wanted assurances from PB, backed by paperwork, that they were going to meet the End-of-year deadline or I wanted my money back (for the add-ons I paid separately for, at least).
This is what I sent to the AG:
Spoiler:
Dear Sirs I am writing to you in the hope that you take action against Palladium Books.
Palladium Books, Inc.
39074 Webb Court Westland, MI 48185 (Wayne County)
Phone: 734-721-2900
Palladium Books successfully completed their Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter on May 20, 2013. This kickstarter was aimed to produce a tabletop wargame with miniature figures based on a popular sci-fi cartoon series from the 80's known as "Robotech". The kickstarter raised $1,442,312 among 5,342 international backers. Additional funding was collected via the Kickstarter's "backerkit", which allowed backers to add additional copies or add-on purchases to their "rewards". There is, unfortunately, no public information on the amount of additional funds collected with the "backerkit".
At the time of completion, the original estimated shipping date was December of 2013. As of Dec 31, neither on their weekly update or the kickstarter site was ANY mention made that the shipping would be delayed. On January 30, 2014 - a month after the initial, original shipping date was missed - Palladium Books announced in both a weekly update and on the Kickstarter site that the items would be split into two waves, with a shipping date of May/June 2014. In the April 10, 2014 weekly update, Robotech Wave One was announced with an expected delivery date of Spring 2014. In their April 25, 2014 weekly update, Robotech Wave One was revised with an expected delivery date of Summer 2014. Robotech Wave One went "into manufacturing" on June 12, 2014 according to their weekly update, with an estimated delivery date still Summer 2014. As of the Palladium website weekly update on June 26, the estimated delivery date was September, 2014. On July 17, 2014 as noted in the weekly update, the first of at least 11 containers was loaded to depart China, with an estimated arrival date of August 8, 2014. The weekly update was also changed to reflect a Fall 2014 estimated release date. US shipping for Wave One was declared in the weekly update to began on August 28, 2014. However, due to a number of transport issues, the majority of shipping did not actually begin until October 2, 2014 (announced in the weekly update and on the Kickstarter website). Europe was shipped their Wave One products by sea on or around Jan 21, 2015 as noted in a Kickstarter website update. Australia was shipped their Wave One products by sea around Feb 8, 2015 as again noted in a Kickstarter website update. "Rest of the World" was shipped their Wave One products (by sea?) on May 13, 2015 (again, via Kickstarter Website update).
Since the shipping of Wave One items began, backers have been asking for information on the status of the Wave Two items. This information has been frustatingly sparse, with the last tangible update occuring on Feb 28, 2015. This update consisted of "incomplete" 3D renders of two of the twenty-eight miniature figures for Wave two. Finally, in a two-part Kickstarter update on June 6, 2015 we were given a tenative release date for Wave Two of "The end of 2015". Since that time, all information about Robotech Tactics has been for items NOT a part of the "rewards" and items purchased in the original Kickstarter, with continual promises of a forthcoming Wave Two update. Kevin Siembieda has posted detail information in reflection about the Kickstarter from its inception to the delivery of Wave One in a two-part update on the Kickstarter site on June 6, 2015.
While the ever-shifting release dates are signs of bad customer service and not criminal actions, Palladium books has increasingly shown dwindling ability to produce products based on its primary business - roleplaying books. Based on the information available to me and other backers at this time, we do not believe that Palladium Books has the resources - or willpower - to complete Robotech RPG Tactics Wave Two. In his June 6, 2015 update Kevin mentions serveral costs. The initial outlay for the Kickstarter was $40,000. International shipping is mentioned to have cost $150,000 (no mention of domestic shipping). There is a mention in the same update that "make(ing) the game and expansion packs" would be "between $550,000 and $900,000". Based on these rough numbers, it is my beleif that the funds for Wave One have been depleted and Palladium lacks the remaining funds - or ability to secure funding to cover the cost of Wave Two. Further, based on their inability to produce other products from their own line, it is my belief the company is incapable of admitting they cannot produce Wave Two.
As an example of the latter, I direct you to their projected book release schedule that was listed in their January 11, 2015 weekly update. The update listed the following books for release in 2015:
Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Advanced Rule Book
Splicers® Sourcebooks – several
Beyond the Supernatural™ – Tomes Grotesque™ Volume One
Beyond the Supernatural™ – Beyond Arcanum™
Palladium Fantasy® Land of the Damned 3: The Citadel (probably 2016)
Palladium Fantasy® Land of the South Winds
Heroes Unlimited™ sourcebooks
Dead Reign® sourcebooks
Rifts® Secrets of the Atlanteans™
Rifts® Heroes of Humanity™
Rifts® The Disavowed™
Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Sovietski
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Delta Blues™
Rifts® Dark Woods™
Rifts® Voodoo
Of the books listed, I can only find that Palladium Fantasy RPG: Bizantium and the Northern Islands has been released so far. The only other book that they have released this year that I can discern is the Robotech Expeditionary Force (formerly UEEF Marines) book, which was released this month. This latter book was originally slated for release on April 10, 2014 with numerous dates shifts - many of which had emphasised promised hard release dates.
We urge you to act in the interests of the 5,342 backers to force the hand of Palladium to either produce information to its backers on the current state of all Wave Two items and the feasibility of producing Robotech RPG Tactics with a general statement of the company having the finacial resources to produce said wave or reasonable proof of intent to secure funds to pay for said Wave Two. We urge you, that should Palladium refuse to provide such information to pursue forcing the company to refund the monetary value of the unproduced items to the backers.
Forar pointed out a couple of inaccuracies:
Spoiler:
While we don't have a precise number for the backerkit amount, they did say this on Update #120 in a comment:
"The BackerKit added to that, for sure, but a successful pledge manager is generally expected to add about 10% on top of the Kickstarter total. We did pretty close to that (slightly over). "
So "slightly over 10%" of their amount sounds like ~$150k or so, give or take.
They did admit they'd miss December before the end of the year.
"The ship date. At this point, we still do not have an exact release date, but it’s no longer possible for it to be in December, as we have not even gone into manufacturing yet. If I had to guess, I’d say February, 2014, though we’re working to try to make it sooner." - November 1st, 2013.
That target would indeed continue to move as the months progressed.
Regarding the renders: the February 28th update had 5 sprue breakdowns, not two. Gnerl, Ghost, Lancer, Officer's Pod Booster Sled, and the Jotun were all shown off.
I apologize if this seems pedantic, but where the law is involved we do want to be as accurate as possible.
It never ends well
2015/09/11 06:37:52
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Revised Vanilla Valkyrie stat cards are up. Two minor errata changes (a 1R upgrade still keeps leader stats, and LRM's go from 8 to 6).
That's it for this week in new content. The list of big promises is still there. Two weeks and counting after "We will be posting the following in the weeks ahead". They were smart to remove any talk of a schedule from the following updates.
If they keep working this hard on the RRT project, they should finish sometime next century. Obviously, if we see something significant this weekend on a KS Update (beyond the expected SValk stuff up on DriveThru), that may change. There's still a lot of stuff to do, and they need to start buckling down.
Cause I'm not sure lawyers and their clients will accept "Wave 2 is in active development" if it's less than a couple hours a week total, given how late this project is. Sure, a judge might rule otherwise, but that's still going to suck resources PB don't have, to "defend" themselves. And it's not like having that be a matter of public record (or that they ARE spending significant amounts of time, but that's all they're able to accomplish) will do good things for their tattered reputation.
2015/09/11 17:44:47
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Y'know Mike you might want to start a new thread on rules since this one is on the KS so, barring a sudden breakthrough, will continue to be dominated by complaints.
2015/09/11 20:43:16
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Y'know Mike you might want to start a new thread on rules since this one is on the KS so, barring a sudden breakthrough, will continue to be dominated by complaints.
In a different forum his various publications would also be better received.
They only seem to underscore that RRT needs more tweaking
Oddly, I am less concerned of the rules: I am certain they can be made to work with or without PB.
As a local FLGS game that groups get together to play I figure it missed the boat.
BUT wave 2 models are a little harder to do without.
Just the core box. I wonder if they're trying to stir up more interest, or just looking to clear out some warehouse space and a pile of those need moving.
NOTE: I am NOT going all 'omg gaem failz lol', merely pondering why the core box might see an extra chunk taken off their already decent discount.
Obviously they rotate through sales on all kinds of things regularly. Merely pondering aloud what might've led to this choice in particular.
Perhaps prepping shelf space for when Wave 2 arrives by the end of this year. 74 days and counting until Black Friday!
;-D
Okay that last bit is entirely tongue in cheek. At this point, unless they announce manufacturing started already, BF is impossible, which means their drive to finish before the end of the year is probably non-existent.
So the new game is to see when they'll admit aloud that Q1 next year is the new target! ... maybe Q2. Oh hell, let's just call a spade a spade; Gencon 2016. But they're totally prioritizing delivering in the next 3... 6... 12'ish months.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/13 20:05:30
2015/09/13 20:16:05
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: Just the core box. I wonder if they're trying to stir up more interest, or just looking to clear out some warehouse space and a pile of those need moving.
NOTE: I am NOT going all 'omg gaem failz lol', merely pondering why the core box might see an extra chunk taken off their already decent discount.
Obviously they rotate through sales on all kinds of things regularly. Merely pondering aloud what might've led to this choice in particular.
Perhaps prepping shelf space for when Wave 2 arrives by the end of this year. 74 days and counting until Black Friday!
;-D
Okay that last bit is entirely tongue in cheek. At this point, unless they announce manufacturing started already, BF is impossible, which means their drive to finish before the end of the year is probably non-existent.
So the new game is to see when they'll admit aloud that Q1 next year is the new target! ... maybe Q2. Oh hell, let's just call a spade a spade; Gencon 2016. But they're totally prioritizing delivering in the next 3... 6... 12'ish months.
nothing special, its just a daily sale. it will be back up to their regular discount price tomorrow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/13 20:16:56
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/09/14 05:19:54
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: Just the core box. I wonder if they're trying to stir up more interest, or just looking to clear out some warehouse space and a pile of those need moving.
NOTE: I am NOT going all 'omg gaem failz lol', merely pondering why the core box might see an extra chunk taken off their already decent discount.
Obviously they rotate through sales on all kinds of things regularly. Merely pondering aloud what might've led to this choice in particular.
Perhaps prepping shelf space for when Wave 2 arrives by the end of this year. 74 days and counting until Black Friday!
;-D
Okay that last bit is entirely tongue in cheek. At this point, unless they announce manufacturing started already, BF is impossible, which means their drive to finish before the end of the year is probably non-existent.
So the new game is to see when they'll admit aloud that Q1 next year is the new target! ... maybe Q2. Oh hell, let's just call a spade a spade; Gencon 2016. But they're totally prioritizing delivering in the next 3... 6... 12'ish months.
nothing special, its just a daily sale. it will be back up to their regular discount price tomorrow.
Who are you, and what have you done with Rick?
It never ends well
2015/09/14 05:27:18
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: Just the core box. I wonder if they're trying to stir up more interest, or just looking to clear out some warehouse space and a pile of those need moving.
NOTE: I am NOT going all 'omg gaem failz lol', merely pondering why the core box might see an extra chunk taken off their already decent discount.
Obviously they rotate through sales on all kinds of things regularly. Merely pondering aloud what might've led to this choice in particular.
Perhaps prepping shelf space for when Wave 2 arrives by the end of this year. 74 days and counting until Black Friday!
;-D
Okay that last bit is entirely tongue in cheek. At this point, unless they announce manufacturing started already, BF is impossible, which means their drive to finish before the end of the year is probably non-existent.
So the new game is to see when they'll admit aloud that Q1 next year is the new target! ... maybe Q2. Oh hell, let's just call a spade a spade; Gencon 2016. But they're totally prioritizing delivering in the next 3... 6... 12'ish months.
nothing special, its just a daily sale. it will be back up to their regular discount price tomorrow.
Who are you, and what have you done with Rick?
hmmmm?
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/09/14 15:47:41
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I believe it has been discussed here and a few other venues.
As I've mentioned (in general) regarding the various litigation against KS campaigns, it's interesting, but that's about it.
It's not a silver bullet to force any issues, but it's important for KS creators to note; they do *not* want to be the next example that is made.
For all the dissimilarity between any given cases (and yes, campaigns where the creator ran off with the money or failed to deliver anything at all for years are not 1:1 comparisons to contentious campaigns like this one), I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of campaigns began speaking up more regularly in the coming days/weeks.
Even if just to establish some meager paper trail.
But imo, the smart ones will actively connect with backers. If there's struggles behind the scenes, show them. Show Work In Progress pics. Bring people up to speed.
A lot of the frustration and disconnect comes from being told "this is challenging, it's time consuming, we're putting hundreds of hours per month into this!" and having nothing to show for it after half a year.
We don't need to see contracts and get conference call transcripts, but "we're totes working on this soooo haaaard you guys!" doesn't cut it.
2015/09/16 19:40:30
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Stormonu wrote: Something doesn't look right about the hips (too wide?).
Did you make that design yourself or get it from somewhere else? It is a 3D print, is it not?
my design, problem is my photoshop free trial ran out so was unable to fix it, had to rearrange the legs and hips (widen the torso and angle the upper legs in) and extend the back launchers.
this rough draft was all I had so ran it thru shapeways.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/16 23:06:44
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/09/16 23:18:20
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I would like to hope that the official model is better detailed and more sculpted than your 3-D test print. But the push toward simpler models and who knows?
JohnHwangDD wrote: I would like to hope that the official model is better detailed and more sculpted than your 3-D test print. But the push toward simpler models and who knows?
yes but who has one in their hands now ?
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/09/17 00:41:29
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
JohnHwangDD wrote: I would like to hope that the official model is better detailed and more sculpted than your 3-D test print. But the push toward simpler models and who knows?
JohnHwangDD wrote: I would like to hope that the official model is better detailed and more sculpted than your 3-D test print. But the push toward simpler models and who knows?
yes but who has one in their hands now ?
Good question...
yours looks better then mine boss.
problem is its too big, mine is 1:285 scale that is what 1:200 ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 01:00:07
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/09/17 01:39:27
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Good choice for the model to work on, the Crusader... uh, "Armored Veritech".
I would really like a Phoenix-Haw... I mean, "Super Veritech".
I have issues with Robotech loyalty and the old transferred loyalty to Battletech.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2015/09/18 16:12:44
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Looking good there, right. They need a few less corners and more round edges on parts but definitely better than I could do.
For those too lazy or disappointed to read the newest salesletter (because newsletter would be a completely incorrect descriptions), it's basically:
1) we're working SOOOO hard
2) please buy our stuff... we've added a discount!
3) tomorrow is the next email that will have the normal 2% news/98% sales pitch ratio to qualify as a newsletter.
2015/09/18 17:13:28
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
warboss wrote: Looking good there, right. They need a few less corners and more round edges on parts but definitely better than I could do.
For those too lazy or disappointed to read the newest salesletter (because newsletter would be a completely incorrect descriptions), it's basically:
1) we're working SOOOO hard
2) please buy our stuff... we've added a discount!
3) tomorrow is the next email that will have the normal 2% news/98% sales pitch ratio to qualify as a newsletter.
sad thing is my version one was the base skeleton I designed and was going to finish it up later, but then photshop ran out so had to use Tindercad which is well not a very easy program to use for complex designs nor will it let me move any of the original design but was able to do ver. 3 of my armored vech which is shown above
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 17:14:56
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/09/18 17:20:35
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
So a lone fan playing with a home computer and shapeways is closer to making my beloved Jetfire Wearing an Overcoat Made Entirely of Missiles than the people we gave over a million bucks to?
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
