Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Personally, I think the KD:M anecdotes were funnier, people who got engaged, married and had kids in the 33 months since pledging and delivery.

Since this campaign ended, I have been diagnosed with diabetes, had an 8cm cancerous mass and 10cm of small intestine removed, had a medical port implanted, endured 6 chemo treatments and am now cancer free.
But.
I still find it in me to be seriously irritated with Palladium.

GuyverBlue wrote:
Since this campaign ended, I have been diagnosed with diabetes, had an 8cm cancerous mass and 10cm of small intestine removed, had a medical port implanted, endured 6 chemo treatments and am now cancer free.
But.
I still find it in me to be seriously irritated with Palladium.

Oh jeez. Hope stuff stays copacetic and there's no further issue.

But that'd be an interesting tagline. "Robotech Tactics. A worse experience than having cancer.".

On a different tack, if they don't have an Update this weekend, they're reverting to form and again screwing any small amount of goodwill. It'll be three weeks tomorrow. They need to have something better than pablum. But I'm not expecting anything.

Yeah, that's beats anything I'd add. Best wishes and luck, Guyver! For me, I've gained and lost 30 pounds, started getting my first grey hair, bought 4 waves of x-wing products, painted a full force of Heavy Gear Nucoal tanks and gears, painted a small Tau Farsight ally army, picked up Halo Battles as my next project, and sold off most of my excess Palladium RPG stuff.

Hope you stay well Guyverblue.

For now I'm hoping wave arrives before the start of WWW3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When this campaign started I was fit and exercised. Since then my rheumatoid arthritis has gotten worse limiting my movements and I've gained a lot of wait. Hell I should be fitted for a bra I've put on so much weight. On the plus side at least I still have my hair considering I'm 3 yrs from turning 40.lol

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Hope you stay well Guyverblue.

For now I'm hoping wave arrives before the start of WWW3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When this campaign started I was fit and exercised. Since then my rheumatoid arthritis has gotten worse limiting my movements and I've gained a lot of wait. Hell I should be fitted for a bra I've put on so much weight. On the plus side at least I still have my hair considering I'm 3 yrs from turning 40.lol

I think we all unexpectedly gained alot of wait. About two years and counting so far...

Let's see, from early 2013 to now, I have moved twice, put on some weight (not proud, but I'm with ya brothers, it's a work in progress), finally visited my first Gencon (of the 3 that have occurred since the project began), have been promoted, am pondering moving again (probably before delivery), sold off most of wave one and most of my remaining PB RPGs (the major purge was over a decade ago, but with repeated moves it saves weight and space to pare down collections now and then).

Which is to say that it's been a busy couple of years but GuyverBlue's got me beat hands down. Literally. My takeaway from that story is that no conventional means can stop him.

Overall, I'm reminded of this: http://duke.a-13.net/

Now, DNF was a much longer running gag... but approaching 3 years, this one has to have some historical benchmarks behind it.

I wonder how many marriages have occurred since the KS? How many divorces? Children? Deaths (as we've morbidly contemplated in the past)?

People keep saying 'omg it's not a big deal be patient', but given that the average north american male will die around 76, I think approaching 4% of ones fething lifespan is a pretty sizeable period of time as it is.

Whelp, the weekly propaganda is up!

Let's see what we've got here;

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Wayne spent part of today working on a revised Blast rule with a few advisors, and they hope to have a proposed rule change posted for public testing and comment in the next day or two.

It is my impression that the Robotech® Macross paper game pieces should also be ready soon. And I know Wayne is working on a number of other things. Otherwise, not much has changed in the last week. We continue to work on several aspects of Wave Two. More Wave Two game cards are being posted on DriveThruRPG.com with more cards, rules, Macross paper game pieces and good stuff to come. Meanwhile, we continue to explore ways to reduce the piece count and are considering every possibility without sacrificing quality. RRT Organized play is the other thing we need to tackle, as that’s what people are looking for. We’ve been discussing and making notes for that in the last few days, and have some fun and intriguing ideas.

So it has been over 11 weeks that Wayne has been working on pulling together the state of each game piece (24 figures and 8 resin pieces, off the top of my head). 55 days (assuming a 5 day work week) to compile data on 32 figures, or nearly 1.5 days per item.

Buddy, for the long hours Kevin keeps talking about you guys putting in, we need to talk about productivity. (yes, granted Gencon was in there and Alliance's open house and other stuff; point stands, this is information they should be tracking for the project in general, it should not take 3 months to compile)

I see Wayne is working on the blast rules! And there's paper figures coming (facing is important, LOS is to center of mass, let's play with 2D proxies...)!

Let's get some other choice quotes;

We’re hammering away on books, so I’m going to keep the rest of this Update brief. Game on!

Yeah, it's amazing how these updates can apparently take hours to craft when they're mostly copy/pastes.

UPDATE: Chaos Earth® Resurrection™

This book is scary good. After Alex finished editing the latest batch, he said to me, “Kev, this is really scary stuff. I mean truly scary to play.”

So they're the Stephen King of RPG writers. *eye roll, obscene gesture*

I've played pretty much everything they've made, from Rifts (where you can literally fight Old Ones if you're packing enough firepower) to their Horror game line "Nightbane" (originally Nightspawn until Todd Mcfarlane told them to get bent). They don't have 'unsettling' in them, let alone 'truly scary to play'.

I told him that was the intention of author Taylor White, and I’m keeping that sense of horror and the macabre in the changes and additions I’m making. Chuck Walton’s artwork helps to maintain the horror. And it’s not just things like cyborg zombies and clockwork zombies with weapon limbs and armor bolted to their bodies. It’s the setup, the Transmission, the Black Obelisk and zombies like the Living Dead Girl that add suspense, creepiness and a psychological element of horror. Nice work, Taylor.

Cyborg zombies! Clockwork zombies! (so... steampunk cyborg zombies?) The Living Dead Girl!

Oh good, they watched The Ring and flipped through the rule book for Malifaux. Keep pushing those limits!

REMINDER: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Convention Exclusives are available to Kickstarter backers ANYTIME

"Please! PLEASE buy these things!! You guys wanted exclusives, you can have them! You can have them all! As many as you like! Don't worry baby, it's not just the Hype(R) and Buzz(C), but we're doing it for you! FOR YOUUUUUU! And totally not because we want all this pewter gone and turned in to moneyyyyyyyyyy!"

Closing thoughts . . .

We are laser focused on banging out new books and new Robotech® RPG Tactics™ material, and getting old favorites into your hands in new formats like PDFs from DriveThru, other game systems like Rifts® for the Savage Worlds® RPG, and surprises yet to be revealed.

Enjoy the warm and sunny weekend sweeping across North America, because Winter is just around the corner. And our latest big Flash Sale offers purchases that can keep you busy when Winter rolls in. Not to mention the sale items make excellent holiday gifts for the gamers and Robotech® fans in your life. Keep those imaginations burning bright – ours are on fire!

– Kevin Siembieda, Game Designer, Writer, Publisher

They are LASER FOCUSED! Their imaginations are ON FIRE! Btw please buy stuff, if not for yourself, then for others! Just buy it!

Pay no mind to the fact that Black Friday is a mere 9 weeks away, and that if it's anything like last year 'grab bag season' might begin in a mere 2 weeks!

Just consider it a pleasant surprise that they didn't try to Trademark "Winter is Coming" as a stunt to keep the lights on.

 Forar wrote:

Wayne spent part of today working on a revised Blast rule with a few advisors, and they hope to have a proposed rule change posted for public testing and comment in the next day or two.

It is my impression that the Robotech® Macross paper game pieces should also be ready soon. And I know Wayne is working on a number of other things. Otherwise, not much has changed in the last week. We continue to work on several aspects of Wave Two. More Wave Two game cards are being posted on DriveThruRPG.com with more cards, rules, Macross paper game pieces and good stuff to come. Meanwhile, we continue to explore ways to reduce the piece count and are considering every possibility without sacrificing quality. RRT Organized play is the other thing we need to tackle, as that’s what people are looking for. We’ve been discussing and making notes for that in the last few days, and have some fun and intriguing ideas.

So it has been over 11 weeks that Wayne has been working on pulling together the state of each game piece (24 figures and 8 resin pieces, off the top of my head). 55 days (assuming a 5 day work week) to compile data on 32 figures, or nearly 1.5 days per item.

Buddy, for the long hours Kevin keeps talking about you guys putting in, we need to talk about productivity. (yes, granted Gencon was in there and Alliance's open house and other stuff; point stands, this is information they should be tracking for the project in general, it should not take 3 months to compile)

I see Wayne is working on the blast rules! And there's paper figures coming (facing is important, LOS is to center of mass, let's play with 2D proxies...)!

The blast rule has been an issue for a long time. The last discussion on the PBForums about this ran from early February to mid April. But they're finally getting around to addressing it. So, progress! Wheee! And as per Update 184, they've only had that information back from the people responsible for doing the gruntwork, for 11+ weeks at this point.

Along with the Conventional Forces (in the same para, between the prototype Grell and the painted Miriya's, which do appear to be literally vaporware at this point. When Palladium stop spruiking something that's behind on deadline, you can pretty much count that as gone, no? Likely because of a lack of pre-sale. Which is ironic as gak, because it was likely the lack of stats that lead to the lack of pre-sale. More ironic because there was essentially nothing needed for them to do it. All the miniatures were from GHQ's existing line. Sure, it's still mentioned in their wishlist of gak they plan on doing "soon", but that could just be a cut and paste error.

"Not much has changed in the last week". Which given what has changed from the previous week, should just be read as "since February". How they can claim (according to the BBB responses) to be "actively developing" the game, while making so little progress, is astounding.

Organized play is important, sure. You should get right on that. If only it wasn't a relatively simple thing to get started, that should have been done oh... a year ago so that when the game was released to the public, there was a structure in place so people didn't need to hamfist it. Sure, some games on release don't have something like this in place immediately. But the situation here is much different. Most games don't have the number of "pre-orders" RRT had, nor an extra 9 months to get a structure in place. If this was first going to market without 5000+ people putting down money in advance, it'd be different. Same as if it had of gone out December 2013, not having OrgPlay ready until mid 2014 (test it at Adepticon, dial it in for GenCon) would have been fine. But that's not the case here.

And it's not like the first iteration needs to be THAT complicated. This is how much terrain you need. This is how Tournament scoring works. This is the initial set of army construction rules (if there's an issue to address, like promo figures). This is how the finals should work. Here's the latest FAQ/E. Leave anything complicated, like those weird "You can't play Destroids" space rules, until the supporting framework is solid. It's not a hard task, and a couple of hours of research and hard work, should have had this done. There's no need to reinvent the wheel when the general structure's been out there for what, 20+ years now. But in typical PB fashion, gotta do it all themselves. If they're smart (not a safe bet), they'll put a preview up for public comment, so if there are any glaring issues, they'll be pointed out BEFORE they implement it as official. Having to retract something because it's blatantly abusable wouldn't be a good look for a company already rife with self-inflicted errors.

 Forar wrote:

UPDATE: Chaos Earth® Resurrection™

This book is scary good. After Alex finished editing the latest batch, he said to me, “Kev, this is really scary stuff. I mean truly scary to play.”

So they're the Stephen King of RPG writers. *eye roll, obscene gesture*

I've played pretty much everything they've made, from Rifts (where you can literally fight Old Ones if you're packing enough firepower) to their Horror game line "Nightbane" (originally Nightspawn until Todd Mcfarlane told them to get bent). They don't have 'unsettling' in them, let alone 'truly scary to play'.

Don't you mock his genius! You praise his name, Forar! Praise it!

Seriously (or not), I think I figured out where all the money's gone, and why there's a need for the sales. It's medical costs. There seems to be a need for multiple shoulder reconstructions (from patting themselves on the back) and cranial/rectal seperation surgeries (both from removing his employees heads from his arse, and removing his head from his own, which would come with a side order of spinal correction).

Kevin, stop with the bloviating self-congratulation. If the product is as great as you say, let the work will speak for itself.

 Forar wrote:

REMINDER: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Convention Exclusives are available to Kickstarter backers ANYTIME

"Please! PLEASE buy these things!! You guys wanted exclusives, you can have them! You can have them all! As many as you like! Don't worry baby, it's not just the Hype(R) and Buzz(C), but we're doing it for you! FOR YOUUUUUU! And totally not because we want all this pewter gone and turned in to moneyyyyyyyyyy!"

Especially given their usual level of enthusiasm and hyperbole, having to admit "Sales of the three Robotech® exclusive figures were light." must have been incredibly painful for him. But there's no desperation there.

 Forar wrote:

Closing thoughts . . .

We are laser focused on banging out new books and new Robotech® RPG Tactics™ material, and getting old favorites into your hands in new formats like PDFs from DriveThru, other game systems like Rifts® for the Savage Worlds® RPG, and surprises yet to be revealed.

Enjoy the warm and sunny weekend sweeping across North America, because Winter is just around the corner. And our latest big Flash Sale offers purchases that can keep you busy when Winter rolls in. Not to mention the sale items make excellent holiday gifts for the gamers and Robotech® fans in your life. Keep those imaginations burning bright – ours are on fire!

– Kevin Siembieda, Game Designer, Writer, Publisher

They are LASER FOCUSED! Their imaginations are ON FIRE! Btw please buy stuff, if not for yourself, then for others! Just buy it!

Pay no mind to the fact that Black Friday is a mere 9 weeks away, and that if it's anything like last year 'grab bag season' might begin in a mere 2 weeks!

Yup. The desperation for sales is quite excessive. Especially given that like you said, there's likely another sale likely to start in a couple weeks, and then there's Christmas Grab Bag time. But there's no reason to look at the man behind the curtain. I'm sure the sales are purely for the customer's benefit, and the books are fine. Nothing shady there, you betcha.

Mike, didn't you mention submitting or giving feedback on the changed blast rules MONTHS ago? And they're now starting to work on that? I guess they're trying to squeeze it in with the submitted rules for conventional vehicles from the beginning of summer that were supposed to get people to buy the repackaged tank and airplane minis.

It's more jazz hands to borrow a phrase from Forar. Oh, and it looks like it's full speed ahead to break yet another promise made on the kickstarter (Convention and KS exclusive minis). I like how in the 19 page history lesson the minis were both in bold and all caps as being exclusive and now it has turned into bunny ears around the word. Eh, whatever. At this point, I don't care if they offer sexual favors behind a curtain at their open house if it raises enough money to get wave 2 into my hands before either Palladium, Kevin, or I die. I don't expect any promise from Palladium to be worth the paper it is printed on (and considering it is distributed by email....).

Morgan Vening wrote:
Along with the Conventional Forces (in the same para, between the prototype Grell and the painted Miriya's, which do appear to be literally vaporware at this point.

As I understood it, that stuff was 'pending interest', as in, if enough people expressed interest in purchasing it, they would make it happen. I cant speak for anyone else, but I *AM* interested in that stuff... I just refuse to give Palladium another penny until they give me the gak I already paid for. If they thought they could put out non-wave 2 stuff that we would buy so that they could raise money to complete wave 2, then they're SOL.

I just hope Pallasium does a RIFTS KS as soon as possible. RIFTS can pay for RRT just like RRT paid for RIFTS. Keep kicking that can down the road...

chaos0xomega wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
Along with the Conventional Forces (in the same para, between the prototype Grell and the painted Miriya's, which do appear to be literally vaporware at this point.

As I understood it, that stuff was 'pending interest', as in, if enough people expressed interest in purchasing it, they would make it happen. I cant speak for anyone else, but I *AM* interested in that stuff... I just refuse to give Palladium another penny until they give me the gak I already paid for. If they thought they could put out non-wave 2 stuff that we would buy so that they could raise money to complete wave 2, then they're SOL.

On the exact same wavelength there.
Funny how these "exclusives" make this "other" product acceptable to flog on the KS page... until it isn't.
I am terribly interested in their new stuff but I just cannot reward bad behavior even with my extensive self interest needs.
PB just needs to throw us a bone here and they could see some purchases happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also after all this I think we need a guide to all the various words and phrases that have developed as a culture for this KS. Though it oddly bothers me that "KS" for kickstarter could be misinterpreted as short for Kevin S.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
Along with the Conventional Forces (in the same para, between the prototype Grell and the painted Miriya's, which do appear to be literally vaporware at this point.

As I understood it, that stuff was 'pending interest', as in, if enough people expressed interest in purchasing it, they would make it happen. I cant speak for anyone else, but I *AM* interested in that stuff... I just refuse to give Palladium another penny until they give me the gak I already paid for. If they thought they could put out non-wave 2 stuff that we would buy so that they could raise money to complete wave 2, then they're SOL.

The release of the figures with RRT stat cards and packaging is 'pending interest', but the stats themselves (done by Mike and others) have allegedly been done and ready for approval for months now. Mike was working on conventional forces long before GHQ reached out to him, and he put them and PB in touch to sort things out.

Even with a 'final points/upgrades are works in progress', they totally should have been able to release the Beta level efforts, get some fan playtesting done, and let people know how the force org charts work.

A squad of tanks, APC's, or aircraft shifting 5 or 10 points is one thing, but not even knowing how many belong in a squad card/support card is something else entirely. Are they like VT's where a box is a support worth? Like Artillery Pods where it's a weird 2/3 of a squad? Like Battlepods where they can be mixed and matched in a handful of variations as a squad alone (6! 9! 12!) and vastly more when considering support card options?

That's information they could have given, but haven't. It's been 'in the works' or 'a few weeks away' for months now.

It's funny; aside from upgrades, we've basically known the stats of the Robotech figures for years now (unit stats and force org charts). Here the figures literally exist but they simply cannot deliver (on the scale of months) the information that would allow consumers to make an informed choice.

Or maybe their waffling about has led to so little interest that they just can't be bothered, which would be a funny self-fulfilling prophecy.

Or people realized too quickly that they can just buy from GHQ for cheaper and use Mike's cards for stats...

Anyway, the Robotech specific units (the Cats Eye Recon aircraft and the Comanchero) are the ones that they're allegedly trying to ascertain consumer interest in before commissioning. The other conventional stuff already exists. RRT 'conventional forces' will just be slapping PB's branding on the blister packs, including cards for use in the game, and charging more per figure (or the same price for fewer figures).

 Talizvar wrote:
[
I am terribly interested in their new stuff but I just cannot reward bad behavior even with my extensive self interest needs.
PB just needs to throw us a bone here and they could see some purchases happen.

I'm not interested in a bone anymore... I want the goddamn meal I paid for hours ago! A bone isn't what you give folks who have been waiting two years longer than your planned 6 months and is too little too late but sadly it is what we'd be lucky to get in the forseeable future. Barring legal action (either by an individual backer, groups of backers, or an state AG), I don't think we'll ever see wave 2 in its entirety.

 warboss wrote:
Barring legal action (either by an individual backer, groups of backers, or an state AG), I don't think we'll ever see wave 2 in its entirety.

Gah! I had one of those panic moments before my brain kicked-in: they could draw it out to wave 3!!!
Then I realized that shipping cost is the #1 barrier but they could draw this out for a decade!
If they manage to convince themselves they can try to charge us for wave 2 shipments then their hopes and dreams could become a reality!
Kevin could have his hostage audience forever!

 Talizvar wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Barring legal action (either by an individual backer, groups of backers, or an state AG), I don't think we'll ever see wave 2 in its entirety.

Gah! I had one of those panic moments before my brain kicked-in: they could draw it out to wave 3!!!
Then I realized that shipping cost is the #1 barrier but they could draw this out for a decade!
If they manage to convince themselves they can try to charge us for wave 2 shipments then their hopes and dreams could become a reality!
Kevin could have his hostage audience forever!

My prediction is that they'll keep drawing out the remaining wave 2 items until their license is about to expire. Shortly before that, they'll post another 19 page update that throws someone else under the bus and state that they've made only X amount of minis from only Y number of sculpts and they'll ship those out (probably to the US customers first to avoid the tiny chance of local litigation). At that point, they'll announce they're choosing not to renew the license (due to increased costs from the upcoming movie) and that they did their best and they're washing their hands of it all. We'll see a 75% off firesale of the boxes of wave 1 stuff that they spent our money on despite them being destined for retail. We'll also see the bs excuse that they gave the BBB that they're not liable for anything else because they already shipped more than our pledge value in "retail" cost despite it being less than half the actual retail value of what they promised us. That is my pessimistic prediction but I would point out that the most pessimistic predictions regarding this campaign (short of actually committing a crime, of course) have been the most accurate.

I hope I'm wrong because them completing wave 2 early next year would mean that I could finally be done with my dealings with this company (except for pledging $1 to any future crowdfunding they do just for the priveledge of commenting)... but I don't think that I will be.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
Along with the Conventional Forces (in the same para, between the prototype Grell and the painted Miriya's, which do appear to be literally vaporware at this point.

As I understood it, that stuff was 'pending interest', as in, if enough people expressed interest in purchasing it, they would make it happen. I cant speak for anyone else, but I *AM* interested in that stuff... I just refuse to give Palladium another penny until they give me the gak I already paid for. If they thought they could put out non-wave 2 stuff that we would buy so that they could raise money to complete wave 2, then they're SOL.

Actually, the initial announcement didn't have the "pending interest" caveat, according to it's announcement in Update 179. The retail release was, but according to the Update I linked, it appeared the original concept was "We're going to do a run of these regardless, for backers. Then any beyond what backers purchase, we might use for prize support and the like. And if it goes well, it'll go retail". Since it's clear that pre-orders aren't going nuts (for several reasons, yours being one), they've since added that caveat. Them changing the terms of the deal unilaterally, and usually without notice, isn't a rare thing (I'm looking at you, "with enough parts to make any combination of Tomahawks or Defenders." and "Backers first".)



The ironic thing is that there's not even anything to do. For them to sell conventional forces, they need the following.
Miniature design and sculpts - Already done by GHQ.
Miniature production - Ready to be done by GHQ (if they don't already have significant quantities in stock.
Plastic clamshells - Already done, as shown by the promo figures.
Blister Card art and physical insert - Again, already done for the promo figures.
Game card template - Already done.
Game card stats - Awaiting finalization.
Game card printing - Can't be that f'n hard, seriously. Hell, it can be done relatively cheaply through Printer Studio if you don't want to do a big print run.

It's that second last one they're stumbling on, and is the reason for at least some lack of interest in purchase. And one they've been working on now for three plus months now, after supposedly being finalized a week after Update 182. back in middle of June. That Update also made it seem a done deal that it WOULD go retail (no caveats). But then again, they said RRT would be at GenCon 2014. For sale. In quantity. There's not much question about that.

Morgan, never underestimate the possibility that card formats might be incompatible with chinese printers.

just some food for thought:

http://concurringopinions.com/archives/2015/08/making-contracts-on-kickstarter.html

http://kickscammed.com/did-ftcs-update-to-the-mail-or-telephone-merchandise-rule-change-crowdfunding/

 Swabby wrote:
Morgan, never underestimate the possibility that card formats might be incompatible with chinese printers.

True. There is always the possibility of palladium formating Mike's rules in Cunnieform clay tablets and the printer with the lowest bid for the job only able to accept Native American beadwork patterns.

Good News!

Palladium's proofs came in for their next round of coffee mugs displaying their corporate charter. I can't wait to get mine!

GuyverBlue wrote:
Since this campaign ended, I have been diagnosed with diabetes, had an 8cm cancerous mass and 10cm of small intestine removed, had a medical port implanted, endured 6 chemo treatments and am now cancer free.
But.
I still find it in me to be seriously irritated with Palladium.

Geeze man, stay well.

As for me I had twins and moved overseas twice (Trinidad-US-India).

Still waiting for wave 2, maybe for the twins 5th birthday? By then they'll be old enough to help paint.

Thanks all for the good wishes. I just need time to get my strength back now. My fine motor skills are kind of screwed up for now but I hadn't built any of these micro models for months anyway.
I had to laugh at this last Palladium update - organized game play. Mr S does live in his own little world doesn't he?

So I was an after the fact backer which means I don't get updates from Palladium. I received my wave 1 stuff, etc. I sold all my wave 1 stuff (should have kept the bag, it was awesome quality). I have been reading about scams, wave 2, etc, etc.

Is this turning out like Dust in that backers won't see wave 2 or what is the issue? It can't be finances as Palladium was swimming in cash after the campaign.

Can anyone enlighten someone who is kept in the dark?

@455 the short answer is it's been over 2 years and have seen nothing new for Wave 2, except occasional statements that it's coming, or they're focused on it etc.

In the mean time lots of distractions like a 'debate' on the scale of the next kickstarter (as if!), metal exclusive models etc and some desperate sales.

The theory is the money is gone, there is no money for wave two. Whether it went to keep the lights on at Palladium, or if sales so far are too low or whatever is the subject of much speculation and snark.

The bottom line is don't hold your breath.

The lesson learned for pledgers is Palladium does not have their !@#$ together.

The lesson learned for project organizers (I think) is yeah @#$% happens, but if you give meaningful updates and avoid false promises you might keep your good will. Basically don't do what Palladium is.

IF I WERE THEM, be honest, be transparent, scale back ambitions, put out some Wave 2 models in resin, because it seems this game does not have the fanbase to justify 30+ plastic models.

I would also toss in that even if you take them at their word, which I don't advise, they have not yet tooled all the models as they still "continue to explore ways to reduce the piece count" which you kind of can't do once steel (or whatever metal) has been cut. So by their own recent admission at least some kits are still in the design phase.

I am not an industry expert by any means, but I've seen it stated enough that unless you're dropping big wads of cash or have production runs nearing a million shots (two misses for PB there), getting a production slot booked at a factory is a time delay of multiple months. If their stated progress is that they're still in engineering with even just *some* kits (and my gut tells me that putting "some" is insanely charitable) and the month of October starts next week, then I wouldn't realistically expect anything prior to CNY. Even that is only if they really are working on it and aren't just trying to avoid coming clean like a kid with a bad report card. If the Shamefully Negative Dakka-HiveMind© is correct though, yeah, Forar's "GenCon 2016...maybe" estimate might be optimistic.

At least I think it was Forar...maybe it was someone else. We'll blame a Canadian anyway since they'll just apologize for being so blame-able. I eagerly await PB's discovery of this fact for when the next bus swings by...

I think Gencon is the next possible date... but that doesn't make it a realistic one. I don't believe Palladium gives a rat's ass about anyone but themselves (the delays, incompetence, VOLUNTARY horrible communication consisting of only minimal CYA speech and spin). They're going to miss the Xmas 2015 season no matter what. The next big splash they **could** make where they sell direct for full margins would be gencon and I suspect that is their next internal target. Of course, they'll come out with some bs speech about how they need to try and screw over backers again by devoting the first shipments to sell at gencon if it happens. My personal guess though is that they're just riding out the license clock and the too much of the money is gone because they spent it all on wave 1 stock sitting in their warehouse and they're in self preservation mode just like most of the rest of the past decade since the Crisis of TreacheryTM. The robotech slush fund... I mean kickstarter was just a brief respite and we now return you to the defacto desperate measures. Every man for himself! Grab a dice bag and RiftsTM monogrammed pencil on your way out! :(

Gencon 2016 is too optimistic. Maybe the end of 2016.