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You forgot another option, seeing the success of battletech, Kevin is now approaching factories asking if they can make the miniatures out of computer magic that people play with through their computer tvs.
The timing of the broker call can't be coincidence.
Damnit, mike stuck a picture in between! An ability also beyond Palladium.
Mike, has Wayne ever asked you if you are a wizard?

On the RRT FB page the conventional rules are out.

Is that Mike's closed group? Or on Palladium's page?

Joyboozer wrote:
You forgot another option, seeing the success of battletech, Kevin is now approaching factories asking if they can make the miniatures out of computer magic that people play with through their computer tvs.
The timing of the broker call can't be coincidence.
Damnit, mike stuck a picture in between! An ability also beyond Palladium.
Mike, has Wayne ever asked you if you are a wizard?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
Is that Mike's closed group? Or on Palladium's page?

I added them to the other thread that I placed the skirmish stuff on too......

Yup, thanks. I got the bump on the other thread but I wasn't sure if Palladium responded by putting out the "official" version of the same thing in response to your putting it up yourself first.

He's been putting them up himself first? That's pretty gross, and might explain the delay on Palladium posting them officially.

At some point, it has to make zero financial sense for PB to make and ship wave 2. I wonder what they will do then?

 Ctaylor wrote:
At some point, it has to make zero financial sense for PB to make and ship wave 2. I wonder what they will do then?

Spin the wheel of blame, or roll on the table of blame or whatever randomiser Palladium RPGs use. Most of the spots result in blame the backers. I think there's a sparkly top dollar spot named Rick.

 Ctaylor wrote:
At some point, it has to make zero financial sense for PB to make and ship wave 2. I wonder what they will do then?

They've got what money they're going to get out of it. No way future sales would make up for the cost of having to actually produce the stuff - especially if they really haven't finished (or even started) tooling.

A lawsuit will, most likely, go nowhere (sorry, Rick). Wave Two has obviously been abandoned, and I believe that decision was made a long time ago.

Unless someone finds a way to actually push Kevin's buttons and force some sort of action out of him, I think they've gotten away with it.

Merijeek wrote:

 Ctaylor wrote:
At some point, it has to make zero financial sense for PB to make and ship wave 2. I wonder what they will do then?

They've got what money they're going to get out of it. No way future sales would make up for the cost of having to actually produce the stuff - especially if they really haven't finished (or even started) tooling.

A lawsuit will, most likely, go nowhere (sorry, Rick). Wave Two has obviously been abandoned, and I believe that decision was made a long time ago.

Unless someone finds a way to actually push Kevin's buttons and force some sort of action out of him, I think they've gotten away with it.

well lets see enough suits and or government action and we get to see PB burn that is more then enough worth it, and a lawsuit will go to victory so don't see how you think that is going nowhere.

Joyboozer wrote:

 Ctaylor wrote:
At some point, it has to make zero financial sense for PB to make and ship wave 2. I wonder what they will do then?

Spin the wheel of blame, or roll on the table of blame or whatever randomiser Palladium RPGs use. Most of the spots result in blame the backers. I think there's a sparkly top dollar spot named Rick.

I feel so special.

Joyboozer wrote:
He's been putting them up himself first? That's pretty gross, and might explain the delay on Palladium posting them officially.

Unless I'm wrong, I suspect you've got the timing/causality reversed. From Mike's posts here, he seems feed up that the rules he either heavily influenced or flat out created and submitted to Palladium haven't been posted for months after they were supposed to because Palladium hasn't gotten around to even formating them in RRPGT style... so he published them himself as a response to Palladium's inaction... not the other way around. It seems that even when they get work FOR FREE from Valued BackersTM sadly Palladium can't be bothered to put forth a token effort to get that product out on time.

 warboss wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
He's been putting them up himself first? That's pretty gross, and might explain the delay on Palladium posting them officially.

Unless I'm wrong, I suspect you've got the timing/causality reversed. From Mike's posts here, he seems feed up that the rules he either heavily influenced or flat out created and submitted to Palladium haven't been posted for months after they were supposed to because Palladium hasn't gotten around to even formating them in RRPGT style... so he published them himself as a response to Palladium's inaction... not the other way around. It seems that even when they get work FOR FREE from Valued BackersTM sadly Palladium can't be bothered to put forth a token effort to get that product out on time.

either that or they are stretching what they have out over time so they can say they are doing something.

Conventional unit rules from Mike. Once old man Kevin hears about this he'll probably give an update blaming him for the delay or some other BS.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/231108.page

Certainly one or the other. But I'm going to doubt that Mike just plain did it. You know he tried to get them to pull their thumbs out of their asses multiple times before just putting the stuff out there.

So they couldn't even get it together enough to put out work produced by other people who he suggested that if they didn't do so, he'd just plain put it out there.

But that's OK, because now they're having to step back from RT because, well, they have other product lines you know, you whining little backer losers.

Asterios wrote:

either that or they are stretching what they have out over time so they can say they are doing something.

Not that the lack of any shred of truth or common sense has ever stopped Palladium from using it as justification but stretching out the convention vehicles rules has ZERO impact on the progress/work/completion of the kickstarter rewards that they are obligated contractually to fulfill or refund. In fact, the only effect it could have is to delay the completion of the rewards as it is a SEPARATE project that is peripherally related to the kickstarter. Them working on the conventional vehicle rules is about as effective at satisfying their legal obligations as if you brought your Toyota Camry into the mechanic for an appointment to be fixed and he instead worked on the Toyota Corolla that was parked next to it instead of your car.

Even "advanced" rules are beyond the scope of the KS and its rewards and don't count towards its completion. They've already satisfied the reward for creating the rules with the starter set. They now just need to get their asses in gear to actually fulfill their model rewards. Anything else (whether RRPGT related or not) is just a distraction.

 warboss wrote:

Asterios wrote:

either that or they are stretching what they have out over time so they can say they are doing something.

Not that the lack of any shred of truth or common sense has ever stopped Palladium from using it as justification but stretching out the convention vehicles rules has ZERO impact on the progress/work/completion of the kickstarter rewards that they are obligated contractually to fulfill or refund. In fact, the only effect it could have is to delay the completion of the rewards as it is a SEPARATE project that is peripherally related to the kickstarter. Them working on the conventional vehicle rules is about as effective at satisfying their legal obligations as if you brought your Toyota Camry into the mechanic for an appointment to be fixed and he instead worked on the Toyota Corolla that was parked next to it instead of your car.

you didn't read those responses he gave the AG's or the BBB did you? cause this is what he used as an excuse of them doing work on the project.

Asterios wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Asterios wrote:

either that or they are stretching what they have out over time so they can say they are doing something.

Not that the lack of any shred of truth or common sense has ever stopped Palladium from using it as justification but stretching out the convention vehicles rules has ZERO impact on the progress/work/completion of the kickstarter rewards that they are obligated contractually to fulfill or refund. In fact, the only effect it could have is to delay the completion of the rewards as it is a SEPARATE project that is peripherally related to the kickstarter. Them working on the conventional vehicle rules is about as effective at satisfying their legal obligations as if you brought your Toyota Camry into the mechanic for an appointment to be fixed and he instead worked on the Toyota Corolla that was parked next to it instead of your car.

you didn't read those responses he gave the AG's or the BBB did you? cause this is what he used as an excuse of them doing work on the project.

You didn't read my post, did you? I said it hasn't stopped them from using it in the first sentence. My point is that their justification of "working on the project" is crap in relation to the conventional vehicle rules, advanced rules, convention exclusives, etc.

Joyboozer wrote:
He's been putting them up himself first? That's pretty gross, and might explain the delay on Palladium posting them officially.

Actually thanks for the support. The rules have been ready since June or July. PB has been "reviewing" them this whole time. Jaymz got sick of PB and the wait and posted them up himself on a few locations so there was no reason for me to hold back any longer either since they are in a way already public. He put them up in my FB group and a few others that I am not a member of.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Actually thanks for the support. The rules have been ready since June or July. PB has been "reviewing" them this whole time. Jaymz got sick of PB and the wait and posted them up himself on a few locations so there was no reason for me to hold back any longer either since they are in a way already public. He put them up in my FB group and a few others that I am not a member of.

3+ months just to review... nuts. They have no sense of timing or urgency.

 Forar wrote:
I'm pretty sure the quote was to the effect of ND having handed over the renders ages ago, and PB having the factory they're working with inexplicably create the digital files for cutting the sprues into molds based on those renders, but I don't recall them saying anything about molds being done.

Add to that where they've gone on repeatedly over the last few months about 'trimming the piece count', which would be a silly thing to worry about if the molds were cut; that ship has sailed in that case.

Yeah, apparently, PB has been so sucessful with reducing the part count, they got it down to 0.

 warboss wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
He's been putting them up himself first? That's pretty gross, and might explain the delay on Palladium posting them officially.

Unless I'm wrong, I suspect you've got the timing/causality reversed. From Mike's posts here, he seems feed up that the rules he either heavily influenced or flat out created and submitted to Palladium haven't been posted for months after they were supposed to because Palladium hasn't gotten around to even formating them in RRPGT style... so he published them himself as a response to Palladium's inaction... not the other way around. It seems that even when they get work FOR FREE from Valued BackersTM sadly Palladium can't be bothered to put forth a token effort to get that product out on time.

To be fair, Steve Jackson Games is no better. We've been waiting on the Ogre fan-created scenarios to be e-published for years now.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

To be fair, Steve Jackson Games is no better. We've been waiting on the Ogre fan-created scenarios to be e-published for years now.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. SJG's missing scenarios is more akin to the missing skirmish rules we were contracted to get but didn't in RRPGT. SJG, to my knowledge, delivered on all the physical rewards which made up the vast majority of the value pledged. They delivered the meat and potatoes and gravy but skipped out on some garnish. Palladium has instead delivered the meat but the potatoes and gravy are missing and they've been trying to get us to buy dessert in the meantime while stalling.

We are talking about publishing fan content. It's apples-to-apples.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
We are talking about publishing fan content. It's apples-to-apples.

Ok, I'll give you that. I was thinking more in terms of the entirety of the project.

 Lynx7725 wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

Actually thanks for the support. The rules have been ready since June or July. PB has been "reviewing" them this whole time. Jaymz got sick of PB and the wait and posted them up himself on a few locations so there was no reason for me to hold back any longer either since they are in a way already public. He put them up in my FB group and a few others that I am not a member of.

3+ months just to review... nuts. They have no sense of timing or urgency.

More like "THESE RULES ARE TERRIBLE! There isn't a single 98% in here ANYWHERE!"

Merijeek wrote:

 Lynx7725 wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

Actually thanks for the support. The rules have been ready since June or July. PB has been "reviewing" them this whole time. Jaymz got sick of PB and the wait and posted them up himself on a few locations so there was no reason for me to hold back any longer either since they are in a way already public. He put them up in my FB group and a few others that I am not a member of.

3+ months just to review... nuts. They have no sense of timing or urgency.

More like "THESE RULES ARE TERRIBLE! There isn't a single 98% in here ANYWHERE!"

I played various Palladium RPGs for over a decade. Terrible rules have NEVER been a reason not to publish a product!

 warboss wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Asterios wrote:

either that or they are stretching what they have out over time so they can say they are doing something.

Not that the lack of any shred of truth or common sense has ever stopped Palladium from using it as justification but stretching out the convention vehicles rules has ZERO impact on the progress/work/completion of the kickstarter rewards that they are obligated contractually to fulfill or refund. In fact, the only effect it could have is to delay the completion of the rewards as it is a SEPARATE project that is peripherally related to the kickstarter. Them working on the conventional vehicle rules is about as effective at satisfying their legal obligations as if you brought your Toyota Camry into the mechanic for an appointment to be fixed and he instead worked on the Toyota Corolla that was parked next to it instead of your car.

you didn't read those responses he gave the AG's or the BBB did you? cause this is what he used as an excuse of them doing work on the project.

You didn't read my post, did you? I said it hasn't stopped them from using it in the first sentence. My point is that their justification of "working on the project" is crap in relation to the conventional vehicle rules, advanced rules, convention exclusives, etc.

but as far as PB thinks it is viable, it shows they are working on wave 2 and our product, never said it was right or that it is smart but hey the AG has bought it for now since they will not do the investigation but relying on the complainants to do it and file the information with them.

 warboss wrote:

I played various Palladium RPGs for over a decade. Terrible rules have NEVER been a reason not to publish a product!

Rules written by The Simbieda, by definition, can not be terrible.

I was just making fun of what warboss posted about mike putting them up himself, it sounds gross, I didn't actually mean anything else other than that.