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What?

You're thinking that PB is out of business as of Jan. 1, 2016?

 Alpharius wrote:
What?

You're thinking that PB is out of business as of Jan. 1, 2016?

no they will be too busy with lawyers and such to do anything till they are fined out of business, since a lawsuit is not the only avenue i'm going, been busy drawing up the drafts to send to a few government agencies using the info PB replied with and then some.

Like I said I will see PB out of business before they steal another dime from the unwary.

if Wave 2 does not show up by the end of this year it will not show up at all, reason being PB will cease as a company and no amount of lawyers will save them, end of story.

Lolz. Highly unlikely...about as unlikely as the Cleveland Browns winning a Super Bowl in our lifetimes...But you are more than welcome to believe that. Your chances at selling your Robotech models to recoup your money is a safer bet.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

if Wave 2 does not show up by the end of this year it will not show up at all, reason being PB will cease as a company and no amount of lawyers will save them, end of story.

Lolz. Highly unlikely...about as unlikely as the Cleveland Browns winning a Super Bowl in our lifetimes...But you are more than welcome to believe that. Your chances at selling your Robotech models to recoup your money is a safer bet.

very likely and selling my stuff will not stop PB me proceeding with legal matters will.

A show of hands:

Who here will admit they are wrong if PB releases Wave 2?

If wave 2 doesn't get released...and the company folds...I will be the first to admit I'm wrong...right here on Dakka. My gut tells me that Wave 2 will be released. It has to. Everything rides on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

very likely and selling my stuff will not stop PB me proceeding with legal matters will.

Good luck!

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
A show of hands:

Who here will admit they are wrong if PB releases Wave 2?

If wave 2 doesn't get released...and the company folds...I will be the first to admit I'm wrong...right here on Dakka. My gut tells me that Wave 2 will be released. It has to. Everything rides on it.

well I won't have to admit it since PB will never release wave 2, first and foremost they will not be around long enough to do it, secondly its not financially sound because of what PB has done, it would bankrupt them and then some since they do not have the money to do it, you keep ignoring that fact, it will cost them a serious amount of money to do wave 2, money they will not be able to recoup due to the lack of interest in the game because of PB's disaster handling of this project.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
A show of hands:

Who here will admit they are wrong if PB releases Wave 2?

If wave 2 doesn't get released...and the company folds...I will be the first to admit I'm wrong...right here on Dakka. My gut tells me that Wave 2 will be released. It has to. Everything rides on it.

You mean ever? Like in 2034? And that would count as being "wrong"? I hope you're not adopting that Palladium style openended timeywimey delivery date style. I'll admit I was wrong if they come out with it by October 2013... I mean Dec 2013... I mean Jan/Feb 2014... I mean Gencon 2014 after backers get it... I mean end of year 2015... of wait... none of those apply any more (and I probably missed a few inbetween). l will, however, admit I was wrong about them never getting it out if they get it out Q1 2016 as per the current bowling ball rolling down the mountain working delivery date.

You have no proof that they do not have the money to complete wave 2. It's all speculation...not fact. Unless you have access to their financials... you don't know. While I'm certain they don't have the money to complete it...I still think they will find a way. They have to. Everything rides on it. I also think they have arrived at an alternative way to produce wave 2. So the question still stands: Will you admit you were wrong if it gets released and PB endures? If the opposite is true...and it turns out that it doesn't get released...and they do in fact fold as a company...I will admit I'm wrong.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
You have no proof that they do not have the money to complete wave 2. It's all speculation...not fact. Unless you have access to their financials... you don't know. While I'm certain they don't have the money to complete it...I still think they will find a way. They have to. Everything rides on it. I also think they have arrived at an alternative way to produce wave 2. So the question still stands: Will you admit you were wrong if it gets released and PB endures? If the opposite is true...and it turns out that it doesn't get released...and they do in fact fold as a company...I will admit I'm wrong.

you act as if PB cares, they do not, they are just trying to hold off people suing them and the government going after them, they as much as admitted they were already out of money when they posted what they had spent, how much shipping was and how it was costing them more money then they expected.

PB has no money nor do they have any intention of producing wave 2, they have had the designs for wave 2 that ND gave them for about a year now or so, the fact you refuse to even consider this is more of a joke then anything.

We have ND saying they gave PB the designs last year, we have PB even admitting they have had the designs for that amount of time, and yet they have done nothing.

PB is a joke of a company and should be brought down before they try to screw over other innocent people.

also the part where you say "I still think they will find a way. They have to. Everything rides on it." is the cry of the desperate.

I just got Palladium's weekly spam mail.. here is the pertinent Robotech part:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
Nothing new to report at this time. A Wave Two release in the second Quarter of 2016 would be ideal. In fact, we’re planning to use its release as an opportunity to relaunch the game line with more support and an organized play program.

We’re a small company and have to juggle our workload and production schedules. Right now we are finishing a couple of RPG books, but in a few weeks, we’ll be turning our full attention back to Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Keep the faith!

Forar, I think Palladium is paying attention to your countdowns! Q2 2016 is now "ideal", not realistic or probable, but just "ideal".. you know.. like wishing on a star or blowing out birthday candles! No news on the conventional rules or paper minis unless that is what they're referring to above as "more support". Mike, I guess your rules (or whatever they'll eventually become) may see the official light of day one year after you submitted them along with paper standees of wave 2 minis.

New PBWU

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Nothing new to report at this time. A Wave Two release in the second Quarter of 2016 would be ideal. In fact, we’re planning to use its release as an opportunity to relaunch the game line with more support and an organized play program.

We’re a small company and have to juggle our workload and production schedules. Right now we are finishing a couple of RPG books, but in a few weeks, we’ll be turning our full attention back to Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Keep the faith!

Pretty weak, but not unexpected. They said last week that they weren't doing jack this week on anything but the RPG books.

Calling for faith is a bit rich, but it's the kind of bs I expect. And faith is what is needed, as the Wiki definition states "Faith is complete confidence or trust in a person or thing; or a belief not based on proof.". So, at least he used the right word.

The one thing to point out, with nothing done this week, we can't really expect a KSU, and it's been 4 weeks since that was updated. If the books take "a few weeks", this could be the longest absence of Updates in a while. So much for "trying to do more".

EDIT: DAGNABIT! Ninjaed by the Boss of War.

I will be shocked if PB actually manages to produce and deliver Wave 2.

So far, we have seen NOTHING that would suggest Wave 2 tooling is underway in any way, shape or form. No test shots, no piles of sprues or models, nothing.

And pretending that the tooling gets done, there's still print & packaging, shipping, etc. Nothing there, either.

No models, no paper, nothing.


That said, if my FPAs, my Supers, my Monster actually appear, sure I'll admit I was wrong.

But I'm not inclined to give them until the heat death of the universe. I'm with Asterios. If Kevin isn't blowing smoke, we should see something substantial and factually verifiable by the end of the year.

That said, I think Kevin is full of gak, so I hope Asterios feths him and feths him hard. I hope that he can pierce the corporate veil and take that fether for every penny that he stole.

Morgan Vening wrote:


Calling for faith is a bit rich, but it's the kind of bs I expect. And faith is what is needed, as the Wiki definition states "Faith is complete confidence or trust in a person or thing; or a belief not based on proof.". So, at least he used the right word.

Indeed, faith is appropriate. Another parallel would be them accepting donations of time (free volunteer rules writing! demoing! packing/shipping!) and money (passing the grab bag/christmas surprise package collection plate).

EDIT: DAGNABIT! Ninjaed by the Boss of War.

Ninja strike!

I'm sure it would be ideal. Having a pile of product in hand one month before Gencon would let them ship out to North American backers (hahahahaha maybe), sell at the event without having to compete with CSI, fire off a bunch of pallets to distribution immediately (hell, right before the convention even), and then maybe get around to shipping to the rest of the backers they deem worthy.

I continue to find humour that they've narrowed it down to 'maybe kinda hopefully in the next 8 months', but we all know the next 14 remain unlikely.

Regarding this simply fascinating direction of conversation, of all the vocal critics, I'm probably among the few who hasn't flat out said at length how wave 2 won't happen, but what I have said is that their ongoing silence and lack of progress makes it hard to believe they're making any progress. That going 1-2+ years without new product for the line is more likely to kill it than anything I say or do. They are killing it before our and their own eyes, every week that there isn't a new prototype to show off or render that's ACTUALLY FETHING DONE (not just "done").

Maybe they find the money and the cajones and the time to bring out wave 2 in 2019.

Who cares.

There are plenty of 'small companies' that manage to produce new figures on a regular basis in this industry every year, if not monthly. We're talking people who will have taken a '7 month project' and turned it into ~42+ month project.

When a realistic completion estimate is in the 600%+ range, snark and vagueness don't win any points, and PB would rather gush at 19 page length about how they saved anime than actually show off these figures and their alleged 'reduced parts count'.

To reiterate, their current target is 2.5 years late. Kingdom Death and Ogre (yes, aside from some parts, I'm talking majority of physical components and whatnot) and Relic Knights and many other "very shamefully late" projects look at that and go "whelp, at least we're not them".

It's an embarrassment in the industry, and while I'm not actively seeking blood, y'know what, it would be nice if one of these fethmuppetry based projects actually saw some consequences for their inaction or ineptitude.

So I guess I'll get to throw peanuts from the gallery and continue my countdowns and poking them when the mood moves me to. But I don't have to like it, and frankly, if gaking all over it publicly risks costing them some players/money, good. That's my contribution. They want me to stop, they can do their fething jobs. Sorry if that hurts those who do enjoy the game, but 'feth you, got mine' isn't winning any friends either. They are past the point where I'll naively and meekly hope that if I just love them hard enough that maybe it'll work out. That's not a healthy consumer relationship, that's an unsettling parallel for an abusive relationship with an unstable person.

But don't worry; someone totally just ordered TEN of those $42 grab bags! $420 whole dollars in a single order, what luck, what luxury! A shame they didn't have some opportunity where 5,342 backers gave them (on average) over half that apiece.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
You have no proof that they do not have the money to complete wave 2. It's all speculation...not fact. Unless you have access to their financials... you don't know. While I'm certain they don't have the money to complete it...I still think they will find a way. They have to. Everything rides on it. I also think they have arrived at an alternative way to produce wave 2. So the question still stands: Will you admit you were wrong if it gets released and PB endures? If the opposite is true...and it turns out that it doesn't get released...and they do in fact fold as a company...I will admit I'm wrong.

Just curious, if you're so confidant that Wave 2 will eventuate, would you consider picking up pledges (at cost, no profit/loss for the backer), up to a reasonable level? You seem adamant it will happen, and as others have pointed out, even undercutting OLGS's will at least get you your money back should it be in excess of your needs. So, why not put out that offer? You get what you seem to feel is a sure thing, at Kickstarter prices, and you relieve someone who doesn't have that confidence of the financial ties that seem to cause the aggression you speak out against. You'll also have money tied to the project (rather than as some future purhase), so you'll see how backers feel, even if you're coming to it late. And PB have done it in the past, so it's not a unique thing.

Seems like a win-win for you and anyone from who you buy.

Got 4 Macross units done now.....

VF-0
VF-4
VF-3000
VF-5000

standees included

OTOH, Kingdom Death is planning to deliver Wave 3 Q1 2016, from actual physical product in hand. Late, yes. Very late, and that all of that lateness was self-inflicted due to ever-bloating content. KD:M is the Kicksarter poster child for scope creep. Yet, I still have a lot of confidence that Adam will actually deliver all of the KD:M product that was ordered. And that product will be the awesomest ever.

OGRE? They're just a bunch of screwups who had no fething clue when they did the Kickstarter, and still don't have the slightest clue how to close out the remaining random promises they made. Steve Jackson is the very definition of "stupidity and incompetence, not malice." And yet, they still mention that they're working on this stuff. Sorta. I'm totally expecting a big chunk of the promised Ogre soundtrack to be loops of Yakety Sax, but one day, one imagines they will have kept their promises.

Robotech, OTOH, has nothing, and Kevin keeps blowing smoke. That's what's really pissing me off about the whole thing. Not a shred of decency or integrity. No concept of keeping promises, because Kevin isn't even trying. Give us a real update that actually shows where things are, with actual pictures of things, and maybe I'll believe it. Until then, it's just more lies.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Robotech, OTOH, has nothing, and Kevin keeps blowing smoke. That's what's really pissing me off about the whole thing. Not a shred of decency or integrity. No concept of keeping promises, because Kevin isn't even trying. Give us a real update that actually shows where things are, with actual pictures of things, and maybe I'll believe it. Until then, it's just more lies.

Hell in Kevin's latest weekly spew he even said they are not working on RRT and probably won't be for a couple of weeks, but OTOH they said this last week too, but never fear Capt. Caruthers has faith PB is working on wave 2, regardless if Kevin even says he is not.

Just curious, if you're so confidant that Wave 2 will eventuate, would you consider picking up pledges (at cost, no profit/loss for the backer), up to a reasonable level? You seem adamant it will happen, and as others have pointed out, even undercutting OLGS's will at least get you your money back should it be in excess of your needs. So, why not put out that offer? You get what you seem to feel is a sure thing, at Kickstarter prices, and you relieve someone who doesn't have that confidence of the financial ties that seem to cause the aggression you speak out against. You'll also have money tied to the project (rather than as some future purhase), so you'll see how backers feel, even if you're coming to it late. And PB have done it in the past, so it's not a unique thing.

Seems like a win-win for you and anyone from who you buy.

It's a tempting offer...but if I admit I'm wrong there will be no wave 2 anyways. So what's the point? I have a better idea: When wave 2 is released...you sell me your Gnerls for the price you paid in the KS. Everything else I want from wave 2, I already own as I bought the Con Exclusives to get the units I wanted. The Gnerls are the only things that interest me at this point. Everything else I'll buy at retail when it comes out as I'm not in a hurry for a Mac 2, Lancers, or ghosts...and Zentraedi Infantry are worthless in the game...and should never be made...OR have their rules be better. The fact that they can't boost their speed/ run is stupid.

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Robotech, OTOH, has nothing, and Kevin keeps blowing smoke. That's what's really pissing me off about the whole thing. Not a shred of decency or integrity. No concept of keeping promises, because Kevin isn't even trying. Give us a real update that actually shows where things are, with actual pictures of things, and maybe I'll believe it. Until then, it's just more lies.

Hell in Kevin's latest weekly spew he even said they are not working on RRT and probably won't be for a couple of weeks, but OTOH they said this last week too, but never fear Capt. Caruthers has faith PB is working on wave 2, regardless if Kevin even says he is not.

Let's not pile onto him. I think we both know he doesn't mean exactly this week but in general. I disagree with him on that but lets try not to blow the statement out of proportion.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

Just curious, if you're so confidant that Wave 2 will eventuate, would you consider picking up pledges (at cost, no profit/loss for the backer), up to a reasonable level? You seem adamant it will happen, and as others have pointed out, even undercutting OLGS's will at least get you your money back should it be in excess of your needs. So, why not put out that offer? You get what you seem to feel is a sure thing, at Kickstarter prices, and you relieve someone who doesn't have that confidence of the financial ties that seem to cause the aggression you speak out against. You'll also have money tied to the project (rather than as some future purhase), so you'll see how backers feel, even if you're coming to it late. And PB have done it in the past, so it's not a unique thing.

Seems like a win-win for you and anyone from who you buy.

It's a tempting offer...but if I admit I'm wrong there will be no wave 2 anyways. So what's the point? I have a better idea: When wave 2 is released...you sell me your Gnerls for the price you paid in the KS. Everything else I want from wave 2, I already own as I bought the Con Exclusives to get the units I wanted. The Gnerls are the only things that interest me at this point. Everything else I'll buy at retail when it comes out as I'm not in a hurry for a Mac 2, Lancers, or ghosts...and Zentraedi Infantry are worthless in the game...and should never be made...OR have their rules be better. The fact that they can boost their speed/ run is stupid.

pity you will never see any of these:



as for me I shall have some soon enough if i so chose to.

you act as if PB cares, they do not, they are just trying to hold off people suing them and the government going after them, they as much as admitted they were already out of money when they posted what they had spent, how much shipping was and how it was costing them more money then they expected.

No I'm acting as a realist and understand that there probably is a plan that you or me aren't privy to. The only way we'll know that for sure is if wave 2 does come out. Everything else is speculation based on incomplete information. The rest of the gaps we fill in with what we want to believe. While the time table for the release of wave 2 is way off and people are pissed. Stuff happens in the production process. I see it all the time in my own job. Now, extrapolate the inexperience that PB has with this kind of work. Extrapolate that the company is no longer being assisted by ND, extrapolate that the company has 5 FN employees...and doesn't have a QC/ Product developer to assist...and you can see where the delays are. These guys are learning as they go...painfully slow. I've said from the beginning that one of the biggest mistakes was that PB didn't hire a project manager to specifically work on Robotech until completion. Part of the KS funding should have gone towards a salary for that position. Again, I think PB assumed that ND would do the heavy lifting in this area...afterall, they are a miniatures company..they should have that knowledge. Who knows how that relationship was suppose to work. Yeah ND supplied the digital sculpts...but maybe they were supposed to help with the logistics as well. We'll never know for sure...we can only speculate.

PB has no money nor do they have any intention of producing wave 2, they have had the designs for wave 2 that ND gave them for about a year now or so, the fact you refuse to even consider this is more of a joke then anything.

I'm sure they have no money. I've said that before. But that doesn't mean they can't get more money from other sources to complete a project. Most businesses I know are using business loans, or investment capital. What you don't know is if they have a plan in place to get the capital they need to finish wave 2. You don't know. So don't pretend you do. None of us know. However, they are a business...and all businesses will use loans for stuff. For me, it's a wait and see approach. I'm sure they have a plan...but will it work? Only time will tell. However, if PB is going to survive....their plan has to work..to save themselves. Self preservation is the strongest emotion there is.

We have ND saying they gave PB the designs last year, we have PB even admitting they have had the designs for that amount of time, and yet they have done nothing.

Great. And my company has been sitting on Hard Rock Cafe designs for nearly 10 months waiting for approval from HRC. Again, stuff happens. It was told to us that the formats were wrong for chinese manufacturing. Now, given my experience with working with the chinese, I can tell you that can and does happen..a lot. A lot of times, some factories will commit to a project...and get over booked and they sub contract it out to another factory that they are partnered with and maybe they can't execute the project unless some changes to the files are made. Then you also have the government themselves that limit bandwidth, etc. All sorts of stupid crap can crop up and cause delays.

PB is a joke of a company and should be brought down before they try to screw over other innocent people.

Again, your desire to hold moral authority over others is astounding. This isn't a life or death situation. LOL.

also the part where you say "I still think they will find a way. They have to. Everything rides on it." is the cry of the desperate.

LOL. Hardly. It's the statement of logic than desperation. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Pretend you've just made all the mistakes they made and are faced with litigation. From where you stand...to avoid all of that and to ensure your companies survival...wave 2 must get done. That's no desperation..that's the honest truth. Anything short of that will doom them. So for them, getting it done by hook or crook is an act of self preservation.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

you act as if PB cares, they do not, they are just trying to hold off people suing them and the government going after them, they as much as admitted they were already out of money when they posted what they had spent, how much shipping was and how it was costing them more money then they expected.

No I'm acting as a realist and understand that there probably is a plan that you or me aren't privy to. The only way we'll know that for sure is if wave 2 does come out. Everything else is speculation based on incomplete information. The rest of the gaps we fill in with what we want to believe. While the time table for the release of wave 2 is way off and people are pissed. Stuff happens in the production process. I see it all the time in my own job. Now, extrapolate the inexperience that PB has with this kind of work. Extrapolate that the company is no longer being assisted by ND, extrapolate that the company has 5 FN employees...and doesn't have a QC/ Product developer to assist...and you can see where the delays are. These guys are learning as they go...painfully slow. I've said from the beginning that one of the biggest mistakes was that PB didn't hire a project manager to specifically work on Robotech until completion. Part of the KS funding should have gone towards a salary for that position. Again, I think PB assumed that ND would do the heavy lifting in this area...afterall, they are a miniatures company..they should have that knowledge. Who knows how that relationship was suppose to work. Yeah ND supplied the digital sculpts...but maybe they were supposed to help with the logistics as well. We'll never know for sure...we can only speculate.

PB has no money nor do they have any intention of producing wave 2, they have had the designs for wave 2 that ND gave them for about a year now or so, the fact you refuse to even consider this is more of a joke then anything.

I'm sure they have no money. I've said that before. But that doesn't mean they can't get more money from other sources to complete a project. Most businesses I know are using business loans, or investment capital. What you don't know is if they have a plan in place to get the capital they need to finish wave 2. You don't know. So don't pretend you do. None of us know. However, they are a business...and all businesses will use loans for stuff. For me, it's a wait and see approach. I'm sure they have a plan...but will it work? Only time will tell. However, if PB is going to survive....their plan has to work..to save themselves. Self preservation is the strongest emotion there is.

We have ND saying they gave PB the designs last year, we have PB even admitting they have had the designs for that amount of time, and yet they have done nothing.

Great. And my company has been sitting on Hard Rock Cafe designs for nearly 10 months waiting for approval from HRC. Again, stuff happens. It was told to us that the formats were wrong for chinese manufacturing. Now, given my experience with working with the chinese, I can tell you that can and does happen..a lot. A lot of times, some factories will commit to a project...and get over booked and they sub contract it out to another factory that they are partnered with and maybe they can't execute the project unless some changes to the files are made. Then you also have the government themselves that limit bandwidth, etc. All sorts of stupid crap can crop up and cause delays.

PB is a joke of a company and should be brought down before they try to screw over other innocent people.

Again, your desire to hold moral authority over others is astounding. This isn't a life or death situation. LOL.

also the part where you say "I still think they will find a way. They have to. Everything rides on it." is the cry of the desperate.

LOL. Hardly. It's the statement of logic than desperation. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Pretend you've just made all the mistakes they made and are faced with litigation. From where you stand...to avoid all of that and to ensure your companies survival...wave 2 must get done. That's no desperation..that's the honest truth. Anything short of that will doom them. So for them, getting it done by hook or crook is an act of self preservation.

and yet you still continue to hope and dream such a pity, meanwhile I have my stuff, what have you got?

Also right now no company or bank will loan PB the money due to them being a poor risk investment, not that PB hasn't already tried. keep dreaming eric, keep dreaming.

pity you will never see any of these:



as for me I shall have some soon enough if i so chose to.

Fine by me. The sculpt is crap. I'd rather pay my coworker to actually z-brush a decent sculpt of a Gnerl and pay to have a master mold made from it, than live with that turd of a model. Or I can always find a local guy to do it. I'm and illustrator/graphic designer...sculpting isn't my strong suit..but I know enough people that have those skills and if wave 2 never materializes...you can rest assured that I'll have quality sculpted Gnerls at some point. But please, feel free to fumble through your designs for now.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

pity you will never see any of these:

Spoiler:

as for me I shall have some soon enough if i so chose to.

Fine by me. The sculpt is crap. I'd rather pay my coworker to actually z-brush a decent sculpt of a Gnerl and pay to have a master mold made from it, than live with that turd of a model. Or I can always find a local guy to do it. I'm and illustrator/graphic designer...sculpting isn't my strong suit..but I know enough people that have those skills and if wave 2 never materializes...you can rest assured that I'll have quality sculpted Gnerls at some point. But please, feel free to fumble through your designs for now.

yeah well my design was done thru tinkercad and cost me nothing but a little time, what will yours cost you?

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

Just curious, if you're so confidant that Wave 2 will eventuate, would you consider picking up pledges (at cost, no profit/loss for the backer), up to a reasonable level? You seem adamant it will happen, and as others have pointed out, even undercutting OLGS's will at least get you your money back should it be in excess of your needs. So, why not put out that offer? You get what you seem to feel is a sure thing, at Kickstarter prices, and you relieve someone who doesn't have that confidence of the financial ties that seem to cause the aggression you speak out against. You'll also have money tied to the project (rather than as some future purhase), so you'll see how backers feel, even if you're coming to it late. And PB have done it in the past, so it's not a unique thing.

Seems like a win-win for you and anyone from who you buy.

It's a tempting offer...but if I admit I'm wrong there will be no wave 2 anyways. So what's the point? I have a better idea: When wave 2 is released...you sell me your Gnerls for the price you paid in the KS. Everything else I want from wave 2, I already own as I bought the Con Exclusives to get the units I wanted. The Gnerls are the only things that interest me at this point. Everything else I'll buy at retail when it comes out as I'm not in a hurry for a Mac 2, Lancers, or ghosts...and Zentraedi Infantry are worthless in the game...and should never be made...OR have their rules be better. The fact that they can boost their speed/ run is stupid.

So you want other people to shoulder a risk you're not willing to take, taking advantage if what YOU believe in comes true, but not suffering any meaningful consequence, and then complaining because those people don't have faith that Kevin will deliver, and that might ruin your chance to purchase after other people have put in the financial stake required to get the game to market? That's a really principled stance you're taking there.

I'd gladly sell you my Gnerls, except I have none left to offer. I punted on this project over a year ago, taking a $100 loss on the transaction, and remaining thankful that I get to watch this trainwreck without having money tied to it. And to head off any argument, as someone who paid in, and went through 5 months of excitement and a year of crap, I'm entitled to an opinion on public forums. I don't post to the KSComments, because I think that's unfair. But that doesn't mean I don't get to point and laugh.

Have to be honest, I also think we will see a wave 2. At this point there is no out for Palladium.
Do I think it will include everything? No, not a chance.
But I do think they will release something and tout it as having completed wave 2, and announce the rest to be completed at a later date.

and yet you still continue to hope and dream such a pity, meanwhile I have my stuff, what have you got?

You mean your horribly, non-detailed models..that barely meet proxy standards? No thanks. Maybe if they looked better, I'd be jealous. Besides...I'm not in any hurry for Southern Cross stuff or New Generation. I'm still having fun with my Macross saga stuff. But thanks for caring.

Also right now no company or bank will loan PB the money due to them being a poor risk investment, not that PB hasn't already tried. keep dreaming eric, keep dreaming.

Again, unless you have access to their financials and which banks they are using..or even the names of private investment groups/ individuals...you are speculating. The fact that I'm disappointed in PB for their bad decisions over this project...and their gross incompetence in how to actually support a war-game properly..I'm almost tempted to root for them to complete wave 2...just to see the shocked faces of the snarky people on here. I like how I posted my point of view several pages ago..but have basically been attacked the entire time because my point of view differs from yours or others. LOL. I find it amusing and sad at that same time. :shrug: The funny thing is that I'm not trying to stop you from what you are doing..go ahead...sue PB and see what happens...yet somehow I'm the anti-christ because I regularly play this game with a group of people and continue to buy things for the game...because you know..I like the game.

And as someone who backed with 3 friends for 8 Battle Cry tiers and a good $200'ish in add ons, even after selling off most of my stuff to recoup costs, I still have one friend sitting on 3 BC's (probably going to sell) and another with 2 (who has built maybe 25-30+ figures out of the 140 he received).

We got into the game Malifaux a few years ago, and between battlefoam bags and entire factions and books and whatnot, we dragged a solid half dozen people into the game. We are generally 30's to 40's folks making fairly solid cash, few kids between us (yay disposable income), and a profound love of the Robotech IP across many of us. I have the entire novel series on my shelves right now, along with some of PB's Robotech/Macross 2 books (a few of them have survived repeated sales purges).

In other words, we are ideal fans. We are people who argued at length for the mere opportunity to give them more money to buy their precious limited edition figures.

And now that we've watched their bullgak year after year, their offers fall on deaf ears. I would've happily given them a good chunk of cash, had this been handled in a remotely professional fashion.

Sadly, I don't see any positive spin for treating them any better than I feel they're treating me, which is objectively 'not particularly well' at this point. When they want to sack up and show some progress, then we'll talk about reining in the stick in favour of some carrot again.

You've asked to prove a negative, that's a false start to begin with. If they take 10 more years to deliver, does anyone really give a feth? The game will be dead and gone. So there's a ticking time limit, which will vary based on people's patience, but I think 2016 (14 months) is pretty fething generous. They're getting plastic figures made, not landing a man on the moon. So you skipped out on answering the question that was asked back at you; what's the point where you'd in turn admit that wave 2 isn't coming, or has been so overdue it doesn't matter? 2.5 years late is the current target, and 3 years late (or later) is entirely possible. That doesn't seem like a questionable situation to you?

Edit: also, feel free to respond in paragraphs. Chopping up peoples posts line by line is obnoxious as all get out.

yeah well my design was done thru tinkercad and cost me nothing but a little time, what will yours cost you?

LOL. I'm price insensitive to this game (I dropped nearly $300 on Con Exclusives)...just like I am with GW games. I buy titans at full retail from FW..not chinese fakes. I don't care how much it will cost if it looks good and is of quality. The funny thing is...I don't expect it will cost much other than maybe trading some things..or some money of some kind. My friends aren't going to fleece me...and the best thing is that it frees up my time to actually play the game...instead of making models for it.