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Ooooh, I'm Canadian again.

Hooray.

Joyboozer wrote:
Have to be honest, I also think we will see a wave 2. At this point there is no out for Palladium.
Do I think it will include everything? No, not a chance.
But I do think they will release something and tout it as having completed wave 2, and announce the rest to be completed at a later date.

Agreed. At this point all we can do is wait. My uncle used to say that I have the patience of a saint. He's dead now though...but I'm putting that to the test with wave 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forar wrote:
Ooooh, I'm Canadian again.

Hooray.

Excellent!

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

and yet you still continue to hope and dream such a pity, meanwhile I have my stuff, what have you got?

You mean your horribly, non-detailed models..that barely meet proxy standards? No thanks. Maybe if they looked better, I'd be jealous. Besides...I'm not in any hurry for Southern Cross stuff or New Generation. I'm still having fun with my Macross saga stuff. But thanks for caring.

Also right now no company or bank will loan PB the money due to them being a poor risk investment, not that PB hasn't already tried. keep dreaming eric, keep dreaming.

Again, unless you have access to their financials and which banks they are using..or even the names of private investment groups/ individuals...you are speculating. The fact that I'm disappointed in PB for their bad decisions over this project...and their gross incompetence in how to actually support a war-game properly..I'm almost tempted to root for them to complete wave 2...just to see the shocked faces of the snarky people on here. I like how I posted my point of view several pages ago..but have basically been attacked the entire time because my point of view differs from yours or others. LOL. I find it amusing and sad at that same time. :shrug: The funny thing is that I'm not trying to stop you from what you are doing..go ahead...sue PB and see what happens...yet somehow I'm the anti-christ because I regularly play this game with a group of people and continue to buy things for the game...because you know..I like the game.

and what does it say about you, when you are the only one who is supporting PB? ask yourself this, not even PB defends themselves, you are their only defense here and most likely elsewhere, we have danced this dance many times, and yet its PB's own inactions which have reduced their supporters of this game to a single individual.

So you want other people to shoulder a risk you're not willing to take, taking advantage if what YOU believe in comes true, but not suffering any meaningful consequence, and then complaining because those people don't have faith that Kevin will deliver, and that might ruin your chance to purchase after other people have put in the financial stake required to get the game to market? That's a really principled stance you're taking there.

Wait? What? You want me to be held responsible for your decision to participate in the KS? That's not my problem. And before you demonize me, understand that I sympathize with all the backers. I've been on the record many times regarding it. PB has messed up (i'd use other words...but the filter prevents me)...we all agree on that. I've even listed at length all the things they need to do to right the ship and make the game a flagship game. However, my knowledge of PB over the many years and how they operate made me reconsider doing the KS. I guess you could say I made a better informed decision? While I'm grateful that the backers basically delivered me a game I can play..at the same time...it doesn't give them carte blanche to piss in people's cornflakes who actually enjoy the game and want to see it have longevity. Every time I bring up my POV on this subject it's usually met with disdain from the same few people (who are backers) that want to somehow save me from PB and show me and others how wrong we are to support the game we love. You guys funded a game...but it doesn't entitle them tell me how I should feel about the game and whether or not to support the game...even if the PB are handling it like a bunch of newbs. Which is an understatement.

I'd gladly sell you my Gnerls, except I have none left to offer. I punted on this project over a year ago, taking a $100 loss on the transaction, and remaining thankful that I get to watch this trainwreck without having money tied to it.

I'm genuinely glad that you were able to get basically all your money back. Any person that is considering jumping ship should do so now to maximize what dollars they can get back by selling now vs. waiting for litigation and getting pretty much nothing.

And to head off any argument, as someone who paid in, and went through 5 months of excitement and a year of crap, I'm entitled to an opinion on public forums.

Yes, as a backer you have a right to complain about how things were handled. Piss and moan about how dumb PB is. Believe me, I'm with you on that What you don't have a right to do is tell people how they should feel about the game...or sour the experience of others to the game or head off any potential interest in the game...when it's their choice whether or not they want to support and play the game.

I don't post to the KSComments, because I think that's unfair. But that doesn't mean I don't get to point and laugh.

As long as the pointing and laughing is directed at the responsible party that created this mess...sure. But for us guys playing the game, contributing to the game, and getting others on board? No you don't get to do that..LOL.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

LOL. I'm price insensitive to this game (I dropped nearly $300 on Con Exclusives)...just like I am with GW games. I buy titans at full retail from FW..not chinese fakes. I don't care how much it will cost if it looks good and is of quality.

I'm not coming to add to the witch-hunt aimed at you, instead I'll make a statement as to my situation;

My family is of modest means. We have a semi-strict budget that leaves a specific amount available for gaming related items. I blew three months of the gaming budget(not mine, the family's aggregate allotment) on RRT. My youngest didn't get to pick up a game he really wanted because I invested in the Kickstarter campaign, promising him that once the game showed up we'd have a great time playing. So you go ahead and talk about how much you're willing to spend to get what you want and I'll congratulate you on your financial success. But realise that I gave PB $160US two years ago and haven't gotten all of what I paid to receive and that money, to me, is a significant amount.

and what does it say about you, when you are the only one who is supporting PB? ask yourself this, not even PB defends themselves, you are their only defense here and most likely elsewhere, we have danced this dance many times, and yet its PB's own inactions which have reduced their supporters of this game to a single individual.

You are mistaken. At what point have I defended PBs handling of this project? How many times do I have to repeat it? They've botched this thing horribly. But I've managed to live with it. Sorry if my tolerance for stupidity is higher than yours. In the meantime, I still get to play the game and enjoy it. What I object to is that some how you have decided that you have moral authority in how people should treat this game...and the company that provides it. There are many people who probably like and enjoy this game and avoid any forums. Half of the people I play with do not visit any forums..as they find them to be a waste of time. (a bunch of bitchly little girls they call us forum folk). Does that make them wrong? Out of the 5000+ backers I've seen online.. maybe 20 of them express the type of displeasure you display. Most others are like me...cautiously optimistic...and want to see wave 2 and want info on wave 2. Others simply don't care and will wait it out. The bottom line is that I have a regular crew of people I play this game with. I've recruited 4 more...so from where I sit...more people are playing this game than there were 3 months ago. How many people are playing by you? Maybe that's what bothers you most? I don't know. So to say that I'll be the only one left is laughable. Don't forget..many people that buy PB stuff don't give a crap about this game. I have several friends that play the other PB RPGs...but hate Robotech. Are they bad people too because they like Dead Reign and therefore support a PB product?

 warboss wrote:
I just got Palladium's weekly spam mail.. here is the pertinent Robotech part:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
Nothing new to report at this time. A Wave Two release in the second Quarter of 2016 would be ideal. In fact, we’re planning to use its release as an opportunity to relaunch the game line with more support and an organized play program.

We’re a small company and have to juggle our workload and production schedules. Right now we are finishing a couple of RPG books, but in a few weeks, we’ll be turning our full attention back to Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Keep the faith!

So a couple months ago it was the end of this year, then it was end of March '16, now it's end of June '16? I'm not waiting that long for them to finish. What kind of moron would even talk that way about a project so far beyond its release date? "Keep the faith"? Is that some strange Michigan way of saying "Forcibly polish my bell-end"?

@darkminstrel - I totally get where you're coming from, and that sucks. I have a gaming budget, too.

My family is of modest means. We have a semi-strict budget that leaves a specific amount available for gaming related items. I blew three months of the gaming budget(not mine, the family's aggregate allotment) on RRT. My youngest didn't get to pick up a game he really wanted because I invested in the Kickstarter campaign, promising him that once the game showed up we'd have a great time playing. So you go ahead and talk about how much you're willing to spend to get what you want and I'll congratulate you on your financial success. But realise that I gave PB $160US two years ago and haven't gotten all of what I paid to receive and that money, to me, is a significant amount.

I understand your situation and sympathize. I grew up dirt poor. Let me ask you this..did you know anything about PB and their track record before committing to the KS? A little research would reveal that they suck at delivering on time. Thus, anyone that chose to back the KS made their choice. I can't be responsible for your misfortune...so don't treat me as such. Whether my gaming budget is bigger is irrelevant. Actually, to fund my purchases..I sold some 40k stuff and other personal belongings to get what I wanted. My price insensitivity comes from my willingness to do what it takes to get the models I need. Maybe I have to sell some of my artwork, other models I don't use, or whatever. My suggestion if you are not satisfied with the whole KS and PB wave 2 debacle is to sell what you have got and try to get as much of your money back as you can. OR keep what you have and play the game and enjoy it..and wait for the rest of the stuff to arrive. At a certain point, you'll have to decide for yourself which is the best course of action for you and your family. If the kids are not feeling it anymore...then you'll know what to do.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
Every time I bring up my POV on this subject it's usually met with disdain from the same few people (who are backers) that want to somehow save me from PB and show me and others how wrong we are to support the game we love. You guys funded a game...but it doesn't entitle them tell me how I should feel about the game and whether or not to support the game...even if the PB are handling it like a bunch of newbs. Which is an understatement.

Yes, as a backer you have a right to complain about how things were handled. Piss and moan about how dumb PB is. Believe me, I'm with you on that What you don't have a right to do is tell people how they should feel about the game...or sour the experience of others to the game or head off any potential interest in the game...when it's their choice whether or not they want to support and play the game.

As long as the pointing and laughing is directed at the responsible party that created this mess...sure. But for us guys playing the game, contributing to the game, and getting others on board? No you don't get to do that..LOL.

You've mentioned this often in your last couple posts. Heck, you mentioned it essentially three times in your response to me. I'd like for you to point out where people are doing this? Because I'm simply not seeing it. While Mike has gotten into heated discussions about various things, he's been met with pretty much universal approval over his attempt to bring further interest to this game. Jaymz was treated similarly for his work, from what I saw.

People are voicing their opinion about Palladium. People are disagreeing with your optimism that Wave 2 will happen (yes, they have no solid proof PB won't, but you've got no solid proof they will). Some people agree that it will happen, but it won't be enough to save it (which is a sentiment you seem to share, at least in part). But I'm seeing very little that seems to show what you're claiming is happening. There's a gulf of difference from dissuading someone from playing a game, and attacking the company that you admit is fething things up. Unless you're seeing talk of legal action as some kind of personal attack to make you feel you shouldn't play, I'm not seeing the hostility you're describing being directed at the players. It's possibly coming from Rick/Asterios, but he definitely doesn't speak for everyone, and even people who might otherwise agree with him, think he's kind of a tool sometimes when he goes all "fire and brimstone" on Palladium (No offence intended, Rick. ). You seem to be defending an issue that noone is attacking. If I'm wrong, feel free to point it out.

So a couple months ago it was the end of this year, then it was end of March '16, now it's end of June '16? I'm not waiting that long for them to finish. What kind of moron would even talk that way about a project so far beyond its release date? "Keep the faith"? Is that some strange Michigan way of saying "Forcibly polish my bell-end"?

Hey I get it. Everyone has limits to their patience.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

and what does it say about you, when you are the only one who is supporting PB? ask yourself this, not even PB defends themselves, you are their only defense here and most likely elsewhere, we have danced this dance many times, and yet its PB's own inactions which have reduced their supporters of this game to a single individual.

You are mistaken. At what point have I defended PBs handling of this project? How many times do I have to repeat it? They've botched this thing horribly. But I've managed to live with it. Sorry if my tolerance for stupidity is higher than yours. In the meantime, I still get to play the game and enjoy it. What I object to is that some how you have decided that you have moral authority in how people should treat this game...and the company that provides it. There are many people who probably like and enjoy this game and avoid any forums. Half of the people I play with do not visit any forums..as they find them to be a waste of time. (a bunch of bitchly little girls they call us forum folk). Does that make them wrong? Out of the 5000+ backers I've seen online.. maybe 20 of them express the type of displeasure you display. Most others are like me...cautiously optimistic...and want to see wave 2 and want info on wave 2. Others simply don't care and will wait it out. The bottom line is that I have a regular crew of people I play this game with. I've recruited 4 more...so from where I sit...more people are playing this game than there were 3 months ago. How many people are playing by you? Maybe that's what bothers you most? I don't know. So to say that I'll be the only one left is laughable. Don't forget..many people that buy PB stuff don't give a crap about this game. I have several friends that play the other PB RPGs...but hate Robotech. Are they bad people too because they like Dead Reign and therefore support a PB product?

20? you better go count again, that number has far exceeded 20, as to your defending PB seriously are you that deluded, the mere fact you keep thinking and saying PB will produce wave 2 is defending them, and defending them blindly since their is no evidence that they will ever do wave 2, since their is no evidence they have even done anything on wave 2.

as to PB product, its non-existant around here, nobody plays it and most have never heard of them.

as to PB being late on product, did people pay already for product that has so far taken over 2 years to get out? and almost 2 years from the date Pb said it would be out?, you are nothing but a freaking joke, you come on here saying we should not be angry and yet you have not a single dime into the kickstarter, you are pathetic in your defense and i'm thru trying to make you see reality since you are nothing but a PB mouth piece defending them on something you have not put your money into on product you have yet to receive.

Also we are not out to warn people away from PB i'm here to let people know PB is going down like the liars and thieves they are.

as it goes you have friends to play the game with whoopdedoo, have fun, not stopping you, my only plan is to destroy PB.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
I understand your situation and sympathize. I grew up dirt poor. Let me ask you this..did you know anything about PB and their track record before committing to the KS? A little research would reveal that they suck at delivering on time. Thus, anyone that chose to back the KS made their choice.

Not that old chestnut again. You'll find a lot of backers DID do the research into PB (or knew about it already), and were skeptical. But the general tone at the time of the Kickstarter was that Ninja Division was going to do the bulk of the work, and Palladium was going to handle the licensing and the liaison with Harmony Gold. It only became apparent MUCH later, that this was simply not the case. I know I'd have gone in for ~10% of what I did, if I thought PB were even equal partners in this endeavor, let alone the people seemingly in charge of development. Once the campaign ended, and it was too late to withdraw, there was a tonal shift. And then after the Pledge Manager concluded, only then was it clear exactly what the situation was, or at least had become. Whether it was the plan from the start, or whether Ninja Division walked (or were pushed) after the campaign finished, that was not what was happening publicly while they were still collecting money.

You've mentioned this often in your last couple posts. Heck, you mentioned it essentially three times in your response to me. I'd like for you to point out where people are doing this? Because I'm simply not seeing it. While Mike has gotten into heated discussions about various things, he's been met with pretty much universal approval over his attempt to bring further interest to this game. Jaymz was treated similarly for his work, from what I saw.

It's the general attitude towards my opinions..it's the vibe I get in people's posts.

People are voicing their opinion about Palladium.

Yes and if I voice my opinion I get called out. That's my point. Why? If people don't agree...fine. Ignore my posts. Taking me to task over my outlook on the game and how PB is handling things is silly. You can hate how a company does things...and still like their products. I hate how Apple does things...but I still use iTunes and love Apple TV..LOL.

People are disagreeing with your optimism that Wave 2 will happen (yes, they have no solid proof PB won't, but you've got no solid proof they will).

Some people have flat out told me it isn't going to happen. I'm not going to name names...they know who they are. While I don't have proof...neither do they, but they speak as if they have all the answers. They don't...and I certainly have not claimed as such.

Some people agree that it will happen, but it won't be enough to save it (which is a sentiment you seem to share, at least in part). But I'm seeing very little that seems to show what you're claiming is happening.

I'm too tired to dig through various forums but examples do exist. I should be sleeping right now...I have to be up in 3.5 hours..but my brain won't shut off. Bah.

There's a gulf of difference from dissuading someone from playing a game, and attacking the company that you admit is fething things up.

Again, I'm too tired to find all these posts in forums..but it has happened. Somehow people wanting support for game means supporting PB and that somehow equals bad. I've seen it. There are examples of it here.

Unless you're seeing talk of legal action as some kind of personal attack to make you feel you shouldn't play, I'm not seeing the hostility you're describing being directed at the players.

I don't care if people want to take legal action against palladium...that's their choice. However, don't expect me to support that cause...because I won't. It damages the potential existence of the game I like. That's where people who think like that and I part ways.

It's possibly coming from Rick/Asterios, but he definitely doesn't speak for everyone, and even people who might otherwise agree with him, think he's kind of a tool sometimes when he goes all "fire and brimstone" on Palladium (No offence intended, Rick. ).

Yes, he's been hostile to me because I choose to not support his opinion on the matter...and has ridiculed me for it. However, I haven't really told him to stop with his plans either. I just don't think he's going to be satisfied with the results if it reaches a courtroom...and for that I'm an object of his scorn. Meh. I care not.

You seem to be defending an issue that noone is attacking. If I'm wrong, feel free to point it out.

It could be that I've been up too long...nearly 25 hours. LOL. Who knows.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

It's possibly coming from Rick/Asterios, but he definitely doesn't speak for everyone, and even people who might otherwise agree with him, think he's kind of a tool sometimes when he goes all "fire and brimstone" on Palladium (No offence intended, Rick. ).

Yes, he's been hostile to me because I choose to not support his opinion on the matter...and has ridiculed me for it. However, I haven't really told him to stop with his plans either. I just don't think he's going to be satisfied with the results if it reaches a courtroom...and for that I'm an object of his scorn. Meh. I care not.

No I am hostile towards you, because you attacked me with no provocation, I did not go after you, you went after me, you went after me for the mere fact I want to destroy your precious PB that is why you attacked me plain and simple, I never said anything about you and your friends playing the game or anything, and yet you come on here saying you support the game here and there, and yet I've shown more support for the game on these forums then you have with your lip service.

your nothing but a troll trying to stir things up so go back under your bridge troll i'm thru playing with you.

20? you better go count again, that number has far exceeded 20, as to your defending PB seriously are you that deluded, the mere fact you keep thinking and saying PB will produce wave 2 is defending them, and defending them blindly since their is no evidence that they will ever do wave 2, since their is no evidence they have even done anything on wave 2.

BWAHAHAH! Ok, how about you count for me then. Obviously, this is a personal crusade for you. Really, I think you need to seek counseling for this...as it sounds borderline obsessive. Me thinking they will produce wave 2 isn't defending them you dolt...it's stating an opinion base on past experience with them. Let me ask you this...it's obvious that this is the first time you've dealt with PB...that much is certain...you've obviously never had to wait for an RPG book or other releases from them. While they suck at timeliness they do usually deliver the product they plan in releasing if it's to the point in the development process that Robotech is in. Furthermore, other that speculation...you have no evidence either as to whether wave 2 is coming so back off dude...as you know just as much as I do about wave 2.

as to PB product, its non-existant around here, nobody plays it and most have never heard of them.

Well I'm sorry to hear that. It also reinforces my thoughts on your lack of background of PB. Good to know.

as to PB being late on product, did people pay already for product that has so far taken over 2 years to get out? and almost 2 years from the date Pb said it would be out?

Yes, this has happened before. With both Rifts: Lemuria and Northern Gun books. Guess what? Those books finally came out and the people that crowd sourced them got their books. So if anything, there is precedence that they will in fact deliver a wave 2. When that is we don't know. However, there is clear evidence that they have honored backers before. So again step off dude...as you are obviously not aware of PBs history.

you are nothing but a freaking joke, you come on here saying we should not be angry and yet you have not a single dime into the kickstarter, you are pathetic in your defense and i'm thru trying to make you see reality since you are nothing but a PB mouth piece defending them on something you have not put your money into on product you have yet to receive.

Ok, I'm at the point where I give you the finger. You're an obtuse fool that is blinded by rage that has lost all sense of objectivity in this matter. Guess what? I've probably have spent more on this game than you. I also play this game do you? It sounds to me like you don't...so don't preach to me about investment in this game. I probably have exceeded many dollar amounts of backer money in supporting this game. So I did it at retail..so what? I waited just as long...if not longer to get my stuff than a backer did. I also paid more for it bozo...so drop the high and mightiness. Are you pissed because I made a better choice at avoiding backing the KS? Is that it? What is it then? Nevermind, I don't care what you think. You're dead to me. At this point, I don't give a crap if you're a backer or not...you are not entitled to tell me or anyone else how to feel about this game or the company that sells it. You are clearly not in reality because the reality is you have completely lost it and are now demonizing someone that was in your corner. Now? Forget it. Your arrogance in this matter is astonishing. You really need to check your ego at the door bud. You act is if you are somehow better than me. Well guess what? %*$# that.

Also we are not out to warn people away from PB i'm here to let people know PB is going down like the liars and thieves they are.

And you know what? Good luck with that kiddo. Like I said, this isn't the first legal wrangle PB has had to deal with...so your overconfidence in this matter again astonishes me. It's pretty safe to say..they aren't going anywhere. But good luck on your crusade to save us from PB. you must also be the type that thinks vaping is really smoking and that 3rd hand smoke exists....LOL. You also probably think that 9/11 was an inside job.

as it goes you have friends to play the game with whoopdedoo, have fun, not stopping you, my only plan is to destroy PB.

And you will fail my friend. There have been people for nearly 30 years trying to destroy PB. LOL. The only people that will end PB is PB...not some crazy person like you.


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No I am hostile towards you, because you attacked me with no provocation, I did not go after you, you went after me, you went after me for the mere fact I want to destroy your precious PB that is why you attacked me plain and simple

Lolz. You might want to look again dude. You fired shots at me first. I simply tried to have an adult conversation with you. Your the one that started the name calling first. I believe you said I was a bad human being or some such nonsense. Oh yes...PB is soooo precious to me...that I constantly are criticizing their decisions. Yeah..real precious. Actually I just tolerate stupid more/better than you. I know what I'm getting with PB. You obviously do not...thus the rage. Live and learn buddy.

shown more support for the game on these forums then you have with your lip service.

Yeah by showing off horribly sculpted models and teasing people with stuff they can't have...your a hero. Meanwhile, I've actually created stuff people can use. But whatever. Who's counting, right?

your nothing but a troll trying to stir things up so go back under your bridge troll i'm thru playing with you.

Ok, time to switch to decaf...or seek treatment for your obsessive vendetta to destroy PB. It will only eat you up inside man...most people would just simply sell their stuff and move on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not that old chestnut again. You'll find a lot of backers DID do the research into PB (or knew about it already), and were skeptical. But the general tone at the time of the Kickstarter was that Ninja Division was going to do the bulk of the work, and Palladium was going to handle the licensing and the liaison with Harmony Gold. It only became apparent MUCH later, that this was simply not the case. I know I'd have gone in for ~10% of what I did, if I thought PB were even equal partners in this endeavor, let alone the people seemingly in charge of development. Once the campaign ended, and it was too late to withdraw, there was a tonal shift. And then after the Pledge Manager concluded, only then was it clear exactly what the situation was, or at least had become. Whether it was the plan from the start, or whether Ninja Division walked (or were pushed) after the campaign finished, that was not what was happening publicly while they were still collecting money.

Anyone that is aware of PB history should know that any partnership they have with other companies leads to bad things. The Manhunter books, the CCG, the N-Gage, etc. As soon as I knew that PB had oversight into the development of the game...I was skeptical and opted out. So I guess I'm an donkey cave for recognizing that. All I can say is that I'm sorry people got burned...and I hope that wave 2 comes out and it appeases the backers. I also am genuinely glad that you made a smart decision to get your money back in selling off your stuff when you had the instincts that something was amiss. I just wish more people would take your pragmatic approach.

And I'm terribly sorry that I don't have a full legal department to do the full due diligence for me.

Yes, I had bought a number of the old systems from PB back in the day [Robotech, TMNT, Ninjas & Superspies, etc.] but fell for the Bait and Switch routine that PB came out with by using ND as a front for developing a type of game PB themselves had NO experience in. That makes me some sort of Delta Grade idiot?

At least I'll have plenty of company with all the other backers that fell for the same trick. I hope you are getting enough air up there on the moral high ground!

I don't care if you knew everything there is to know about PB, or nothing at all. It doesn't matter and it doesn't change their responsibility to the backer to either get the remains of their KS out to the backers, or to offer refunds of the outstanding monies.

The timeframe we have been waiting would not have been acceptable to any financial institution, and it is obvious that PB were using KS as a means to access money they wouldn't have had otherwise.. Well, they've had the benefit of that money for years without having to pay us a cent in interest - but I seriously doubt they'll be able to pull that trick again.

And what does a bank do when you don't pay them for 2 years? They foreclose! Don't bitch when some of the backers want to do the same. I don't see a bank looking as kindly on PB as most of the backers have so far.

It's so tempting to purchase a Christmas surprise package and request wave two as the contents. Christmas surprise package.
Has anyone else thought of buying a Christmas surprise package? Or plan on buying a Christmas surprise package for their loved ones? Or hiring a plane to write Christmas surprise package in the sky? Have you seen the yellow sign?

Asterios wrote:


20? you better go count again, that number has far exceeded 20, as to your defending PB seriously are you that deluded, the mere fact you keep thinking and saying PB will produce wave 2 is defending them, and defending them blindly since their is no evidence that they will ever do wave 2, since their is no evidence they have even done anything on wave 2.

20? We've doubled that since and are fast approaching 50! No idea about the actual numbers. I will say that I stopped guessing about the silent majority with the (completely unnecessarily) sham gencon vote that was a (shocking for me) landslide in Palladium's favor. I really didn't expect so many people to allow Palladium to shaft them when they had such a long history of being douchy and incompetent. In reality, we don't really speak as the vocal minority for anyone but ourselves. Hell, after a year of delays, even the gencon vote IIRC only got a bit over a quarter of folks to bother posting a one word answer vote. I suspect the number of folks who care year and a half after that is even lower and the real response to palladium's endless delays is apathy, not anger. I may be wrong but wasn't the vote turnout for the scale question less than half that of the gencon vote? And then add another year's worth of attrition IF they meet their Q2 2016 pie in the sky thrown dart at the unused dusty wall calendar date.

Joyboozer wrote:
It's so tempting to purchase a Christmas surprise package and request wave two as the contents. Christmas surprise package.
Has anyone else thought of buying a Christmas surprise package? Or plan on buying a Christmas surprise package for their loved ones? Or hiring a plane to write Christmas surprise package in the sky? Have you seen the yellow sign?

Bwahahahahaa!! Oh man that would be awesome...someone should do that. LOL. Classic. Someone should hire a plane to circle over their offices with a sign behind it that says: Wave 2 info please...or something like that. I know a guy in florida that has a business of flying banners on planes...but too bad it's in MI and not FL. Oh well.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

Yes, this has happened before. With both Rifts: Lemuria and Northern Gun books. Guess what? Those books finally came out and the people that crowd sourced them got their books. So if anything, there is precedence that they will in fact deliver a wave

While I suspect nothing will break Lemuria's 15 year time-from-advertising-and-taking-preorders-until-delivery record, it wasn't technically crowdfunded. As of this month, RRPGT has broken the Northern Gun's duo of books crowdfunding delay record. IIRC NG2 was just under 2 years late and the first was a few months over 1 year late so they roughly correspond to the RRPGT waves... except that we have no hope of Wave 2 for at least another 6 months and that is with your optimistic view of Palladium's progress.

Also, at this point, maybe you and Asterios should just hit that handy dandy ignore function button on each other. I don't think there is going to end up being any kind of middle ground consensus reached between you both.

Snort. I read the update and went meh.

Think about it from a production perspective. PB said they have been talking to their broker or their manufacturer on the parts. Some issues here and there. And now PB is saying that they took a hiatus to work on other product lines?

Seriously, which plastic manufacturer would be willing to sit idly by waiting for PB for a few weeks? They would be pursuing other lines of work to keep their production running efficiently. If PB takes a break for a few weeks and not keep pushing the manufacturer, their "slot" would get taken out of the chain and pushed back, leading to a knock on effect of delays. Q2 2016 would be a generous estimate.

If I took the PB mentality to my work, my boss would have crucified AND fired me years ago. These guys are incredibly out of touch.

Yes, this has happened before. With both Rifts: Lemuria and Northern Gun books. Guess what? Those books finally came out and the people that crowd sourced them got their books. So if anything, there is precedence that they will in fact deliver a wave

It's a lot easier to write a RPG source book than it is to manufacture wave 2 in hard plastic. I mean seriously, is that your best comparison? What a joke

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

I understand your situation and sympathize. I grew up dirt poor. Let me ask you this..did you know anything about PB and their track record before committing to the KS? A little research would reveal that they suck at delivering on time. Thus, anyone that chose to back the KS made their choice. I can't be responsible for your misfortune...so don't treat me as such. Whether my gaming budget is bigger is irrelevant. Actually, to fund my purchases..I sold some 40k stuff and other personal belongings to get what I wanted. My price insensitivity comes from my willingness to do what it takes to get the models I need. Maybe I have to sell some of my artwork, other models I don't use, or whatever. My suggestion if you are not satisfied with the whole KS and PB wave 2 debacle is to sell what you have got and try to get as much of your money back as you can. OR keep what you have and play the game and enjoy it..and wait for the rest of the stuff to arrive. At a certain point, you'll have to decide for yourself which is the best course of action for you and your family. If the kids are not feeling it anymore...then you'll know what to do.

Wow, are you a arse on purpose or does it just come naturally? You probably need to step back a bit and think before you respond. Hell, man, I even told you I wasn't on the Bash the Cap bus and you come at me like that...wow. Moving beyond you, oh so subtly, insinuating that I'm an uneducated twit I will respond;

No, I in fact did not know of PB's release schedule issues, how could I have? The interesting games produced by them I already owned; TMNT, Robotech, and the PBRPG. I have no interest in Rifts or any other offering by them so my knowledge was limited to the fact that they produced the only Robotech-centric table-top game. Once you own every source book and core book there is no reason to pay attention to the company. I didn't bother with the second edition stuff, my books were bought back in the early 90s and still worked fine.

The Kickstarter project led me to believe that a separate company was handling miniature design and production and PB were just the money and IP, not the managers. With those facts in hand I happily paid out to have the only Robotech based war game ever produced added to my collection. The information provided during the campaign led people to believe that design of the product was already near completion and delivery would be on time. When there were delays I was annoyed, but I'm a Kickstarter vet and just last month received delivery of a project that ran a year over past the due date. Now let me tell you why I'm not upset at that project;

They didn't lie to me.

There were updates on a regular schedule. The project creator made videos showing the current status. There were receipts shown proving the money was spent on the intended product. When there was a hiccup the backers were informed within days. If PB gave half a whit they would have done half as much and kept me loyal and quiet. Due to the repeated promises of a comprehensive update soon, without any pretense of actual delivery of said update, the company has turned me against them. I'm now vocal, I'm angry, I want updates on schedule and relevant to the project's current status. I do not subscribe to the weekly adletter so the last time I saw an update on the project officially and according to the Kickstarter TOS was 06OCT15 and that was a rules revision.

I don't want PB to go out of business. I want the figures I paid for. You can go ahead and enjoy playing with your group, I'm glad you have people who want to play. My intent was to run the game with my kids, but that's pretty hard when half the figures haven't been delivered. It's like playing chess without your queen, one rook, and two pawns. Can you do it? Certainly! The amount of strategy you have available to you is sorely limited, but you could play.

I would like to add that if you can't respond to me without insult(I consider us even now that I've sent that earlier jibe your way) then I respectfully request you respond to the thread in general instead of me personally.

And I'm terribly sorry that I don't have a full legal department to do the full due diligence for me.

Neither do I. For me, the decision came about through their illustrious track record of being late for everything...and I mean everything. I think even the launch of the Core book of Rifts was late as I recall...and that was and still is their flagship game. Basically, PB only gets my money when I see tangible product. Otherwise, they get no dollars from me.

Yes, I had bought a number of the old systems from PB back in the day [Robotech, TMNT, Ninjas & Superspies, etc.] but fell for the Bait and Switch routine that PB came out with by using ND as a front for developing a type of game PB themselves had NO experience in. That makes me some sort of Delta Grade idiot?

No it certainly doesn't make you an idiot. It just makes you far too trusting...which isn't a bad quality to have. But sometimes, it sucks.

At least I'll have plenty of company with all the other backers that fell for the same trick. I hope you are getting enough air up there on the moral high ground!

If you want to talk about moral high ground it won't come from me...I'm not going around saying I told you so to everyone. That would be taking the moral high ground.

I don't care if you knew everything there is to know about PB, or nothing at all. It doesn't matter and it doesn't change their responsibility to the backer to either get the remains of their KS out to the backers, or to offer refunds of the outstanding monies.

I'm not saying they aren't responsible for fulfilling their obligations. In fact, I've been on the record to say that they should fulfill their obligations and get a move on wave 2. Wave 2 should be the primary focus of the company if they want it to be a flagship product...NOT the two RPG books and the combo-rifter they are currently working on. The math as far as long term returns...makes more sense to make Robotech a flagship game and doing it right. Unfortunately...to PBs detriment...they didn't/ don't see it that way. I chalk that up to being completely in over their head in committing to a project of this scope without a serious and solid partnership with people that know what they are doing. That's partly HG's fault as they are limited in what they can do with the Robotech License..so much so that they had to tie the game to the RPG in some fashion just to get it off the ground. Completion of Wave 2 should take precedence over all the stuff in their production schedule. I've also repeatedly say that they should be supporting the game better on their own FN website...they aren't doing that either. Many people will see that I'm not a PB white knight. However, I'm not going to go on a witch hunt to end the company...why? They are doing fine by themselves in that regard. They'll either sink or swim. In the meantime..they are the stewards of games I like. I'm not suddenly going to stop playing the games because of my differences of opinion on how they should run things. I hate how Apple does things...but I still use iTunes and Apple TV. You can have issues with a company and still enjoy their product offerings. The two aren't mutually exclusive. :shrug: Me supporting this game by buying things isn't defending them either. Again, they'll fail as a business on their own merits. However, if wave 2 doesn't get released...I won't give them my money anymore as that demonstrates their lack of commitment to the game. I'll spend my hobby dollars elsewhere. I did the same thing with GW. I play 40k, but I haven't given GW a cent in nearly two years. Why? Because they aren't supporting the game in the manner in which I like...thus they don't get my money. But I'm not going to launch a campaign to try to shut them down either.

The timeframe we have been waiting would not have been acceptable to any financial institution, and it is obvious that PB were using KS as a means to access money they wouldn't have had otherwise.. Well, they've had the benefit of that money for years without having to pay us a cent in interest - but I seriously doubt they'll be able to pull that trick again.

That is part of the problems I have with KS and crowdsourcing in general. Private investors are looking for a monetary return on their investment...that is what is the primary motivation for people to produce for investors. If they don't, they loose their investment money..and in most cases are doomed. With KS and crowdsourcing your return on investment is product...not money. To me, that's not good enough...which is why I don't participate in them. A company shouldn't have to seek out a revenue stream from people they intend to sell product to. If they want a product to be launched...do it the right way...and get your own funding...not take what is essentially handouts on the promise that something will get made. That is why I waited to buy the game at retail.

And what does a bank do when you don't pay them for 2 years? They foreclose! Don't bitch when some of the backers want to do the same. I don't see a bank looking as kindly on PB as most of the backers have so far.

I'm not bitching about backers being angry. Go ahead and be angry. You are right to be angry. What I don't like is that some backers feel somehow they have the moral authority to tell me or others on how we should feel about all of this...and if we don't share their opinion that somehow we are part of the problem. That's nonsense. Me buying boxset after boxset of a game that is sold at retail isn't being part of the problem. If anything, it keeps the game active...and for me that's my goal. I don't want this game to be a flash in the pan...nor do I want to see it end. So yes, I'll keep buying the models..and anything that pertains to my enjoyment of the game and getting more players playing the game. I'm sorry that others don't understand that. That's not my problem.

OK, everyone - back on topic.

And no more Dakkanaut on Dakkanaut crime, please.

OK, someone help here, but isn't the only reason NG out because PB misappropriated funds from RRT, funds that should have been earmarked for Wave 2?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, someone help here, but isn't the only reason NG out because PB misappropriated funds from RRT, funds that should have been earmarked for Wave 2?

That is the general consensus, but I couldn't prove it, and I'm sure no one else can either. The timing is surely suspect though.

Just to satisfy my own morbid curiosity, can someone summarize how and why ND was cut out of the picture? I wasn't paying attention at that point in time.

 warboss wrote:

Asterios wrote:


20? you better go count again, that number has far exceeded 20, as to your defending PB seriously are you that deluded, the mere fact you keep thinking and saying PB will produce wave 2 is defending them, and defending them blindly since their is no evidence that they will ever do wave 2, since their is no evidence they have even done anything on wave 2.

20? We've doubled that since and are fast approaching 50! No idea about the actual numbers. I will say that I stopped guessing about the silent majority with the (completely unnecessarily) sham gencon vote that was a (shocking for me) landslide in Palladium's favor. I really didn't expect so many people to allow Palladium to shaft them when they had such a long history of being douchy and incompetent. In reality, we don't really speak as the vocal minority for anyone but ourselves. Hell, after a year of delays, even the gencon vote IIRC only got a bit over a quarter of folks to bother posting a one word answer vote. I suspect the number of folks who care year and a half after that is even lower and the real response to palladium's endless delays is apathy, not anger. I may be wrong but wasn't the vote turnout for the scale question less than half that of the gencon vote? And then add another year's worth of attrition IF they meet their Q2 2016 pie in the sky thrown dart at the unused dusty wall calendar date.

and that is what PB is hoping for is apathy from the backers, but whether the backers show apathy or not will not matter, I shall not, PB should have really taken care to look into their own states laws, and with what Kevin posted as a response he basically set himself up being screwed.