Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 warboss wrote:
Don't forget the factory in china that did the actual parts splitting to prioritize their own time/machines/effort and not the final visual effect or ease of assembly! Yes, ND does deserve a portion of the blame but by all accounts,

My question is, by who's accounts? While I'm not prepared to excuse ND completely, some commenters are adamant about ND being blamed for this or that. And they may well be. But they're stating facts not in evidence. Where's the certainty come from? To my knowledge, ND haven't spoken publicly about any problems. And I haven't seen people claiming ND admitted fault privately. Because if there's a source other than Kevin, Wayne, or Jeff, or someone who got their information from Kevin, Wayne or Jeff, I'd be interested in knowing.

Again, if ND are responsible, absolutely they should shoulder the blame. But after 2.5 years of this campaign, and hearing about all the crap that Kevin's pulled with blame deflection, I find any assertion of blame coming from him (or his cohorts) as a source, with no corroborating evidence, to be highly suspect, at the least. I need more than Palladium's word that someone has done them wrong. Kevin's burned through all benefit of the doubt with me, regarding his word. I read through the Coffin debacle, and the other two that had similar experiences. So, I'll take ND's silence as more credible than PB's assertion, all things considered.

 warboss wrote:
they stopped contributing to the mess over a year and a half ago. They're done and gone. There is only so much blame I can assign to a company that has been hands off since summer of 2014 when so many new and continuing problems exist over a year later. There is plenty of blame to go around but the lion's share falls straight into Kevin Siembieda's lap. Also, it is important to note that subsequent projects by ND have seemingly improved since they screwed up on Robotech and Relic Knights so they at least seemed to have learned a lesson. Palladium, however, still plods along getting stuck in the same ditches over and over again.

Yet some people are still trying to argue that it's a new experience, and that there are teething problems, etc. Yeah, that excuse was valid for Wave 1. While it's still technically the one project, Wave 2 is the same fething thing, just with less things to do. What I mean there, is that while the sculpts are all different and more varied than the base box, most of the other stuff (core box, expansion boxes, cards, art templates for all of those, rulebook, dice, counters, and blast template) are done. There's no new ground to tread. There's work to be done, but it's all work they've done before. Yet, as you say, they continue to make the same mistakes.

This is how Kevin now comes across after 2.5 years of lying.

At least we know why the fan friends are so blind to douchey moves by Palladium.. they have hair like cousin It from the Adams family blocking their senses and sensibilities apparently!

 warboss wrote:
At least we know why the fan friends are so blind to douchey moves by Palladium.. they have hair like cousin It from the Adams family blocking their senses and sensibilities apparently!

yeah dude definately needs a haircut, looks like his hair is an overgrown version of Chris Farley's

I assume that it's someone as Brian from KODT.

Whether it's the guy from the actual live show they've done I'm not sure.

man that is just a wall of weird hair.

Seriously guys - back on topic here.

And RULE #1 - at all times.

Even if/especially if the people in question aren't members of this site.

Nice to see that the mods over on the Palladium Forums decided enough was enough, and that getting the stats for conventional vehicles out is just unacceptable unless it's on Palladium's timeframe, which currently stands at 139 days late. Can't let people who might be interested in actually using these things, use them, and potentially spend money with one of their partners. I mean that'd be danged unfair (unless PB are getting a cut).

Kinda like the Malcontent dice that seemed to be moderately popular. And Palladium noticed that, and declared they wanted to handle it (and get their cut). And here we are, 13+ months later, and nothing.

I understand the need for protecting IP. But PB's resolute determination to stifle any attempts to keep interest in RRT, when it's clear they just couldn't give a feth, is just amusing, sad and pathetic. They seem dead set on making sure this is a failure, and making sure that noone else steps up. If they were a public company, I'd think they sold short on stock price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, I got bored. And did a graphical representation of the campaign's timeline, as numbers in text format sometimes don't explain the whole "picture".

 warboss wrote:

Just to be clear... the "special" sculpt will be one mode only but the other two modes will still be included. They'll just be generic valkryie sprues instead. What I'm talking about at the Rick Hunters and Roy Fokkers.

That's not what I paid for, and will be grounds for suit.

actually PB did charge RoW backers shipping costs and thats gonna cost PB big time so like the original statement said splitting wave 2 into 2 or more waves is not only doable for PB but ludicrous in thinking PB will spend more then they have to.

The amount they'll have to ship this time around will be less...not more. And if they split wave 2 into a 3rd wave..they can gain money between those two deliveries. You act as if splitting waves is impossible. It isn't. Sometimes eating some shipping costs to get product into the consumers hands faster is worth it. If they can get 8-10 model sets into the hands of backers faster by splitting it that way..they will. Now, whether or not they will do that...no one knows.

and most likely the low ordered units are the ones that PB said will be made in pewter, as it goes we have backers who bought nothing or very little if anything in wave 1 and bought exclusively wave 2 items.

Well nothing has been officially announced by them...so as it stands currently, everything seems to be in plastic for the moment...with the exception of the SDF-1 and the objective markers.

seriously you say you know how PB operates and you think they are going to give the backers anything for free?

They've done it before with the previous crowd sourcing projects. My friend got more original pieces of art than was part of his pledge. While that may not seem like much to you..he really liked that.

too funny. also they have pretty much made the convention exclusives available to the open market already.

They made them available to the public consumption once. The only way you have a chance in hell to get them now is request them through a grab bag. Otherwise, the availability is currently: backers only.

and we have yet to see PB's version of the infantry stats, remember all the rules are not in the book, the special rules and such are on the cards. which PB has not released as of yet.

The rules for infantry is in the core rules of the game. If they add special rules like running..it would greatly help. However, currently as they stand using the stat cards provided by Mike..they are a useless unit. The range of their guns is too short to make them worth using if they can only move 5" a turn (and pray they never have to move through difficult terrain).






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joyboozer wrote:
Guys, all the miniatures are fully completed, packed and ready to ship, the current delay is Kevin writing the update that announces it.

Lolz. That would be hilarious if that were true.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
actually PB did charge RoW backers shipping costs and thats gonna cost PB big time so like the original statement said splitting wave 2 into 2 or more waves is not only doable for PB but ludicrous in thinking PB will spend more then they have to.

The amount they'll have to ship this time around will be less...not more. And if they split wave 2 into a 3rd wave..they can gain money between those two deliveries. You act as if splitting waves is impossible. It isn't. Sometimes eating some shipping costs to get product into the consumers hands faster is worth it. If they can get 8-10 model sets into the hands of backers faster by splitting it that way..they will. Now, whether or not they will do that...no one knows.

and I repeat you are making PB seem more reasonable and human then they really are, evidence? PB said Backers would get product first, that turned out to be a lie since product was in stores several months before RoW backers got their product furthermore it was hitting stores before even all American backers got their product, and before you go say it was not a lie a lie is an intentional uttering of something that is known to be not true, PB never had the intention of sticking to their word, which they have shown time and time again. just on this project, also you still think PB intends to get wave 2 or whatever out, this is not the case, right now PB is fighting to keep their lights on, hell Kevin has already flooded eBay with hundreds of items some really pricey in an attempt to keep the lights on, soon there will be nothing left of PB so my intention is to get my money they owe me before they go bankrupt.

and most likely the low ordered units are the ones that PB said will be made in pewter, as it goes we have backers who bought nothing or very little if anything in wave 1 and bought exclusively wave 2 items.

Well nothing has been officially announced by them...so as it stands currently, everything seems to be in plastic for the moment...with the exception of the SDF-1 and the objective markers.

we already know the objective markers, the bases and the SDF-1 are the items in resin, real simple easy to make items that PB cannot make for some reason.

seriously you say you know how PB operates and you think they are going to give the backers anything for free?

They've done it before with the previous crowd sourcing projects. My friend got more original pieces of art than was part of his pledge. While that may not seem like much to you..he really liked that.

were they art items that cost PB anything? no if it costs PB money to make and/or produce they are not giving it away for free.

too funny. also they have pretty much made the convention exclusives available to the open market already.

They made them available to the public consumption once. The only way you have a chance in hell to get them now is request them through a grab bag. Otherwise, the availability is currently: backers only.

and all anyone has to do is request RRT Conv Exc. on their surprise package wishlist and they will get them, not hard to do.

and we have yet to see PB's version of the infantry stats, remember all the rules are not in the book, the special rules and such are on the cards. which PB has not released as of yet.

The rules for infantry is in the core rules of the game. If they add special rules like running..it would greatly help. However, currently as they stand using the stat cards provided by Mike..they are a useless unit. The range of their guns is too short to make them worth using if they can only move 5" a turn (and pray they never have to move through difficult terrain).

and I repeat without the rule cards you don't know what they are capable of, like what their missiles do and such, also what do you expect infantry to be super human? last time I checked a human didn't rate so well against a tank.

and I repeat you are making PB seem more reasonable and human then they really are, evidence? PB said Backers would get product first, that turned out to be a lie since product was in stores several months before RoW backers got their product furthermore it was hitting stores before even all American backers got their product, and before you go say it was not a lie a lie is an intentional uttering of something that is known to be not true, PB never had the intention of sticking to their word, which they have shown time and time again. just on this project, also you still think PB intends to get wave 2 or whatever out, this is not the case, right now PB is fighting to keep their lights on, hell Kevin has already flooded eBay with hundreds of items some really pricey in an attempt to keep the lights on, soon there will be nothing left of PB so my intention is to get my money they owe me before they go bankrupt.

Despite what you believe. There is precedence that they'll honor their obligations to backers. They've done it twice with other projects. Your personal vendetta against PB has clearly cost you your objectivity...and like I said before...if it comes down to them going bankrupt..or whatever...you aren't getting all your money back. Your chances to get what money you spent back is better served by selling what you have. But I've had this round and round with you before. I'm not doing it again. It's a waste of calories.

we already know the objective markers, the bases and the SDF-1 are the items in resin, real simple easy to make items that PB cannot make for some reason.

I'm not disagreeing with you there. Why they aren't making it is beyond me. Probably because of choice B..which I stated several posts ago...if you were even reading what I wrote.

were they art items that cost PB anything? no if it costs PB money to make and/or produce they are not giving it away for free.

LOLz...yes it cost PB something! They had to pay artists for that work! You think the artists do the work for free? And giving it away when they could sell it (which they have before) means...yes it costs them something in that exchange.

nd all anyone has to do is request RRT Conv Exc. on their surprise package wishlist and they will get them, not hard to do.

Didn't you read what I said? I said that! However, xmas grab bags aren't going to last forever...and after that...it's backers only. Look, I've said several times now that they should just sell those models as box sets. Pack 3 FPAs in a box with cards..and boom. Instant box set. They aren't doing it though. Why? Because: reasons. Anyone that's bought multiples of those models already is using and playing with wave 2 items.

and I repeat without the rule cards you don't know what they are capable of, like what their missiles do and such, also what do you expect infantry to be super human? last time I checked a human didn't rate so well against a tank.

And I repeat. The cards I'm using are provided by Mike. I'm pretty sure those cards are going to be how PB will make them. Why would they change them? That means they have to work more. Currently there is no special rules for them other than Hands, Life is Cheap, and Zentraedi Infantry...and the weapon stats for their weapons are in the fething core rulebook. Again, seriously..do you even play this game? Also, last time I checked, full size zentraedi aren't necessarily comparible to human infantry. However, I would like to think that the creators of the game tested these units out...obviously they didn't. Because if they did..they'd realize that the zentraedi infantry are garbage. I've already gave reasons why this is. Please read why I have that opinion. It's based on actually playing many games with them. If they could boost their spd like mecha or have an ability to spend command points to run..they'd go from crap to average right there...and forget about ever putting them in difficult/rough terrain..they'll never get where the need to go moving 2.5" a turn.

I think it might be time for you two to agree to disagree and move on?

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
and I repeat you are making PB seem more reasonable and human then they really are, evidence? PB said Backers would get product first, that turned out to be a lie since product was in stores several months before RoW backers got their product furthermore it was hitting stores before even all American backers got their product, and before you go say it was not a lie a lie is an intentional uttering of something that is known to be not true, PB never had the intention of sticking to their word, which they have shown time and time again. just on this project, also you still think PB intends to get wave 2 or whatever out, this is not the case, right now PB is fighting to keep their lights on, hell Kevin has already flooded eBay with hundreds of items some really pricey in an attempt to keep the lights on, soon there will be nothing left of PB so my intention is to get my money they owe me before they go bankrupt.

Despite what you believe. There is precedence that they'll honor their obligations to backers. They've done it twice with other projects. Your personal vendetta against PB has clearly cost you your objectivity...and like I said before...if it comes down to them going bankrupt..or whatever...you aren't getting all your money back. Your chances to get what money you spent back is better served by selling what you have. But I've had this round and round with you before. I'm not doing it again. It's a waste of calories.

you like to keep throwing that out there, and yet there is also precedence books PB says they will be doing have vanished never to see the light of day. then there is the northern gun books which surprise surprise happened to show up right after they got their money from this project, not saying they used money from this project to fund those books, but it is very coincidental if you ask me, then there is the latest weekly slap in the face from PB telling us how they are putting this project on the back burner for a couple of weeks (which they also said last week too) which tells me, they are doomed in court too since they should be putting all efforts into a project they were paid for. and you keep saying we won't get money back, got news for you, if a court decides in our favor PB has to pay, failure to do so will place a lien on their business and their business stock and could force their business, IPs and stock to be sold at auction to pay off their debts, so not only will PB go out of business, they will not even own Rifts.

we already know the objective markers, the bases and the SDF-1 are the items in resin, real simple easy to make items that PB cannot make for some reason.

I'm not disagreeing with you there. Why they aren't making it is beyond me. Probably because of choice B..which I stated several posts ago...if you were even reading what I wrote.

why they are not making them is simple and easy, they are backer exclusives and there is no money in it for them, if you haven't figured out by now how PB is not going to put out things where they make no money is beyond me. as far as PB is concerned the exclusives are money losers and not worthy of working on or even looking at.

were they art items that cost PB anything? no if it costs PB money to make and/or produce they are not giving it away for free.

LOLz...yes it cost PB something! They had to pay artists for that work! You think the artists do the work for free? And giving it away when they could sell it (which they have before) means...yes it costs them something in that exchange.

seriously you have no clue how PB's fan friends deal works.

nd all anyone has to do is request RRT Conv Exc. on their surprise package wishlist and they will get them, not hard to do.

Didn't you read what I said? I said that! However, xmas grab bags aren't going to last forever...and after that...it's backers only. Look, I've said several times now that they should just sell those models as box sets. Pack 3 FPAs in a box with cards..and boom. Instant box set. They aren't doing it though. Why? Because: reasons. Anyone that's bought multiples of those models already is using and playing with wave 2 items.

your so funny when you think that it will end there, PB said they were for backers only, over and over and over again, how long did that last?

and I repeat without the rule cards you don't know what they are capable of, like what their missiles do and such, also what do you expect infantry to be super human? last time I checked a human didn't rate so well against a tank.

And I repeat. The cards I'm using are provided by Mike. I'm pretty sure those cards are going to be how PB will make them. Why would they change them? That means they have to work more. Currently there is no special rules for them other than Hands, Life is Cheap, and Zentraedi Infantry...and the weapon stats for their weapons are in the fething core rulebook. Again, seriously..do you even play this game? Also, last time I checked, full size zentraedi aren't necessarily comparible to human infantry. However, I would like to think that the creators of the game tested these units out...obviously they didn't. Because if they did..they'd realize that the zentraedi infantry are garbage. I've already gave reasons why this is. Please read why I have that opinion. It's based on actually playing many games with them. If they could boost their spd like mecha or have an ability to spend command points to run..they'd go from crap to average right there...and forget about ever putting them in difficult/rough terrain..they'll never get where the need to go moving 2.5" a turn.

PB has had Mikes cards for months and then some and never put them out so what does that tell you? and just because you cannot see uses for infantry does not mean they do not exist. they were never meant to be equal to mecha and such but can still go round for round in CC with them. as it goes PB when they designed this game did not design it right, since you got jets which could vanish off a board in one turn never to return and so forth.

 Alpharius wrote:
I think it might be time for you two to agree to disagree and move on?

Seriously - I insist.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think it might be time for you two to agree to disagree and move on?

Seriously - I insist.

yes, oh mighty master of the forums

Getting back on topic it does seem like PB does want the backers to go away. They clearly aren't used to facing criticism from people who could care less about becoming their fan friends.

Rick how long after January 1st will you begin your legal proceedings? I'm stupid enough to still hope wave two will materialize but with Kevin's recent actions it's feels like he's trying to creep away from his responsibilities.

With nothing to show in the past several months, it's hard to imagine PB is doing anything but trying to run out the clock.

June 6, 2015

Wave Two – by the end of 2015?

We want Wave Two out yesterday. Or even better, last year. That can’t happen. We are shooting for the end of 2015 and will do EVERYTHING we can to make that a reality. But as I hope you are beginning to understand, things are not always under our absolute control.

To be honest, we have been so savaged for the many delays and changing release dates in the past, that we are afraid to offer release dates or certain details until we are sure of them. That has resulted in fewer updates over the past few months. In fact, I have had several advisors tell me not to even say that we are trying hard for an end of 2015 release for Wave Two. But we really are. That’s what I want more than anything. If we can make it happen, we will. Again, going into all the reasons for the delays or why we might not be able to make a release date is excruciating and we are not going to put ourselves or you through that pain. We just aren’t. We will, of course, release what we consider to be reasonable information and data as we get it. And we’ll try to do so more often. PLEASE remember this is all a work in progress. Things change.

We hope that you realize Wave Two and all future releases mean money for Palladium and its partners, as well as a vibrant future for the game line, so if we can get product out faster we most certainly will! End of year is the plan. If we can do it sooner, even better! But no promises. And might it be later? Maybe. We don’t know yet. When we have a much clearer idea for a release date we will post it!
Until then, we have some cool stuff coming your way

We more than anyone know how murderous that wait for RRT Wave Two is for everyone. Well, we hope to soften the wait and keep you energized by doing a number of things that we hope will make it a little less painful and demonstrate Palladium’s commitment to Robotech® RPG Tactics™. In fact, we are dedicating a huge part of our time and focus over the next several months to getting RRT WAVE TWO finished by the end of the year (no promises) as well as the many things we’re listing below!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1256008

That was exactly 5 months ago, and we haven't seen any sort of actual, visible, verifiable progress from those liars and thieves.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Getting back on topic it does seem like PB does want the backers to go away. They clearly aren't used to facing criticism from people who could care less about becoming their fan friends.

Rick how long after January 1st will you begin your legal proceedings? I'm stupid enough to still hope wave two will materialize but with Kevin's recent actions it's feels like he's trying to creep away from his responsibilities.

soon as the courts allow, my attorney just finished off a draft he will be filing along with motions of discovery, were gonna see if we can nail PB for misappropriation of funds and get dear old Kevin some prison/jail time, to go with the loss of his company.

Yeah, discovery's gonna be fun.

We are shooting for the end of 2015 and will do EVERYTHING we can to make that a reality.

That's a pretty bold statement, and Kevin had damn well hope has put in the hours and work to back it up, because if he's been focused on other things, you can nail him to the wall for fraud.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, discovery's gonna be fun.

We are shooting for the end of 2015 and will do EVERYTHING we can to make that a reality.

That's a pretty bold statement, and Kevin had damn well hope has put in the hours and work to back it up, because if he's been focused on other things, you can nail him to the wall for fraud.

well the motion of discovery were going to use to see if PB used any funds from this project for other projects like northern gun, if he did that constitutes fraud since he has failed to deliver on this project and if he is out of money for this project then he is sunk.

Yup, and rightfully so!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yup, and rightfully so!

and all this cause PB could not afford to refund me $120

thats what makes it so sad.

So melodramatic.

Clearly they *choose* not to refund you $120.

I think most of us could probably toss you that much right now if we wanted to. And you've noted yourself that they don't want to risk word of refunds getting out and starting a 'bank run'.

But unless the lights are out and they're literally eating shoe leather and boiled books for nourishment, it's not that they 'can't afford to'.

They just bragged about some dude buying $420 (plus shipping) worth of grab bags. They've got your money right there!

 Forar wrote:
So melodramatic.

Clearly they *choose* not to refund you $120.

I think most of us could probably toss you that much right now if we wanted to. And you've noted yourself that they don't want to risk word of refunds getting out and starting a 'bank run'.

But unless the lights are out and they're literally eating shoe leather and boiled books for nourishment, it's not that they 'can't afford to'.

They just bragged about some dude buying $420 (plus shipping) worth of grab bags. They've got your money right there!

but according to fanfriends of PB there are only a dozen of us who want refunds? so why not refund us since so few, or is there?

Asterios wrote:

 Forar wrote:
So melodramatic.

Clearly they *choose* not to refund you $120.

I think most of us could probably toss you that much right now if we wanted to. And you've noted yourself that they don't want to risk word of refunds getting out and starting a 'bank run'.

But unless the lights are out and they're literally eating shoe leather and boiled books for nourishment, it's not that they 'can't afford to'.

They just bragged about some dude buying $420 (plus shipping) worth of grab bags. They've got your money right there!

but according to fanfriends of PB there are only a dozen of us who want refunds? so why not refund us since so few, or is there?

Your estimates on how many fan friends there are are just as bad as their estimates on how many want refunds now.....melodramatic much?

I don't want to read 80 pages to try and get caught up but why is this thread so angry? What didn't they do?
I was thinking of grabbing a starter to use for battletech, do they mix well? Is tactics game play any good and is there a free rules download anywhere?

Well I look forward to significant litigation progress in, what, January? February? Surely it won't take a full quarter just to fire off the opening volley.

That'd be... downright Palladium'esque.

Days since the last update: 33
Days since Wayne said he'd give us a full breakdown on the status of all the pieces: **122**
Days since the last substantial Wave 2 info: 253

Days until the end of Q1 2016 (surely Rick's Legal Grand Slam Hyper Tournament Alpha Edition will have fired off by then): 144
Days until the end of Q2 2016: 235 (current target)
Days until Gencon 2016: 268
Days until the end of 2016: 419

And once his lawyer buddy lands a (figurative) killing blow, we can ignore the rest of the countdowns because he will have proof that they misappropriated funds, are unable to continue the project, will have paid him off, paid off his lawyer, gotten violated for 5 or 6 figures in penalties, be tarred, feathered, run out of town, and someone will probably make some more mean memes about Kevin to put on Mike's FB page.

But at least the rest of the countdowns will finally be over.

I mean, I would take them all down now, but might as well keep 'em rolling until at least the first panicked Newsletter begging for a Fan Friend Call To Arms goes out.

Y'know, really see the whites of their eyes.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
I don't want to read 80 pages to try and get caught up but why is this thread so angry? What didn't they do?
I was thinking of grabbing a starter to use for battletech, do they mix well? Is tactics game play any good and is there a free rules download anywhere?

Actually, if you read the first thread, it's over 400 pages, probably 250 of them angry. The list of infractions is quite long.

Quick summary of what they did wrong. Obviously, subjective, depending on expectation. And by no means comprehensive.
- Incredibly late. What was supposed to be 7 months to completion is now at 29 months, with no end in sight. They're claiming another 8 months, but I wouldn't bet on that.
- Broken promises. Several issues, most prominent was "Backers First". Backers were explicitly promised (several times) their rewards before it went retail. Didn't happen.
- Bait and switch. The people some of us thought would be running the project, aren't. The people actually running it have a reputation for incompetence and idleness.
- Communications. They refuse to address backers concerns. They promised to communicate better several times, and since the last time (June this year) have failed in both quantity (significantly less posts) and quality (zero) with regards Wave 2. They've SAID they've been working consistently on the project, yet the last time they showed us anything (physical or digital) was over 9 months ago.
- Arguably deceptive. There have been a lot of statements that have been made, mostly regarding progress, that have in hindsight been shown to be false. While some of these may have been said with a sincere belief they were true at the time, some simply do not. Saying less than 4 months out from the original delivery date it should still be on time when given what was later found out about the progress, they could never have accomplished that. Similarly, they headed off complaints about seams and parts count (next point) by adamantly saying it couldn't possibly be done any other way. Then, as shown, they did it Heck, the current delay is being excused as doing just that, though some people believe this is just a smokescreen for delay given the lack of progress shown in the previous point.

And probably the ones most likely to be an issue for you,
- Model vs miniature. There was significant issue with the parts counts per model. Some of us were expecting closer to the industry standard, of 8-10 parts per model, maybe a little more if extra articulation was included. The parts tend to be in the 20-25 per model (vanilla Battlepods being the exception at 15+ base). This part approach has led to a lot of splitting. For example, the Spartan (Archer)'s arms are 1-3 parts, and that increased parts count doesn't really have any additional articulation. And the missile pods on that model don't come with the option for being open or closed. You get one set of open pods, and one set of closed pods, for each pair.
- There is also the matter of seams. Due to the higher parts count, and the poor placement of mold splits, these models have a tendency to show seams in some pretty awful places if you don't assemble them well as seen here. To be fair, this was a prototype that was disassembled and reassembled, but you can see where the issues will be, if you handle it poorly. Also, that particular model was redesigned, and the most egregious issue (the missile pod covers) were fixed.
- There are also some minor issues some have with detail. Specifically the look of exposed missiles on the Spartan (Archer) and Longbow (Phalanx). The latter to me, is the worst.

You should definitely have a look before committing. You can see detailed sprue and assembly instructions here. You'll need to scroll down a couple entries, but there's a comprehensive list of Wave 1 models that you can download for free. That's everything that comes in the box.

On the plus side, the models are mostly of a scale for Battletech. The Glaug (Marauder) is apparently a little large in comparison, and the Veritech (Stinger/Wasp/Valkyrie) may be big in comparison. And when the models are done by a skilled modeller, that can handle the seams, they don't look half bad (though I'd hesitate to ever call them GOOD). But there is a LOT of work there, to get them to standard.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Forar wrote:
So melodramatic.

Clearly they *choose* not to refund you $120.

I think most of us could probably toss you that much right now if we wanted to. And you've noted yourself that they don't want to risk word of refunds getting out and starting a 'bank run'.

But unless the lights are out and they're literally eating shoe leather and boiled books for nourishment, it's not that they 'can't afford to'.

They just bragged about some dude buying $420 (plus shipping) worth of grab bags. They've got your money right there!

but according to fanfriends of PB there are only a dozen of us who want refunds? so why not refund us since so few, or is there?

Your estimates on how many fan friends there are are just as bad as their estimates on how many want refunds now.....melodramatic much?

never said how many fan friends they have now did I ?