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2015/12/07 22:50:24
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
warboss wrote: All they need to do now is volunteer to handle layout and production for Mekton Zero's kickstarter and the circle of suck is complete.
I think they're still looking for someone to do the miniatures.
Say what you will about Mekton Zero's KS (and there's a lot to say), they're at least offering refunds to unsatisfied backers.
I wasn't aware of that as the updates have been backer only for most of the year (and I'm not a backer). I had to ask here in the thread last time a few months back for the content. I'm glad they finally are as their communication made Palladium's look almost like a shinning example at times.
2015/12/08 18:32:16
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I know several folks are probably tired of hearing me and Rick beating on the "sue" soapbox, but I want to make a plea to urge folks one last time before the year is out to not take a "wait-and-see" attitude with PB. I feel it is clear the company has completely stagnated on its progress with this KS, and urge you to write, e-mail or otherwise contact palladium that this is not acceptable behavior - whether its requesting a refund, demanding an update, investigating legal action or just poking the bear, please don't let PB write us off with inaction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 19:04:37
It never ends well
2015/12/08 18:37:05
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Stormonu wrote: I know several folks are probably tired of hearing me and Rick beating on the "sue" soapbox, but I want to make urge folks one last time before the year is out to not take a "wait-and-see" attitude with PB. I feel it is clear the company has completely stagnated on its progress with this KS, and urge you to write, e-mail or otherwise contact palladium that this is not acceptable behavior - whether its requesting a refund, demanding an update, investigating legal action or just poking the bear, please don't let PB write us off with inaction.
I would second this.
I did my BBB complaint.
Talked to my government on consumer law and never got the civil service worker to get back to me.
So, yeah, at least force Kevin to exercise more of his creative writing skills.
I will be happy to submit all correspondence I had if anyone finally files against PB.
It is the least I can do.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2015/12/08 19:15:02
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Well, looks like the PBForum Mods are considering questioning the status of Wave 2 and putting forward the option of legal actions are "lies about Palladium and active wishes of harm to the company", and grounds for both thread deletion, and user banning, according to backer and former PBForum member Drachnien.
As long as there wasn't anything further (got no reason to doubt Drachnien, but there's often three sides to an argument), that's pretty lame as a justification for deleting Forar's thread. The thread did prove a point though. Started 4+ months ago, since PB "restarted" the conversation, nothing but a couple of schedule delays (with no listed reason) has happened. So it was a stark reminder of their inaction, and had to go.
Was wondering if the PBMods were being a bit more tolerant in the last little bit. Doesn't appear they are. Just appears like they're just lazier (if that's what set off the mod's banhammer, thread should have been deleted months ago).
2015/12/08 19:15:16
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I emailed them a month and a half ago (October 28th, to be exact), outlining very clearly that I'd like to see something, *anything* from them.
Spoiler:
Hello,
Almost 4 months ago, Wayne Smith said that he would pull together and share information that showed where each remaining product in the project was. (July 9th update: "As for Wave 2, I'm working on a big breakdown of where each and every component is in its development, but that's going to take some time.") https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1289210
Roughly 8 months ago was the last time we saw substantial information shared about Wave 2, the late February update showcasing 5 of the tentative sprue piece breakdowns, which was generally well received (including some very civil critique of the Ghost and Lancer). This also accounts for the majority of substantial progress we've seen since production of wave one began in mid 2014.
Obviously these things are a work in progress, with factors beyond anyone's control, but in nearly a year and a half since Wave 1 went from Design into Production and shipping, there has been shockingly little to say about progress towards completion, other than vague assurances that efforts are being made behind the scenes to 'trim the parts count', which is only believable for so long.
So, to ask directly;
1. What is the status of Each of the wave two figures (roughly two dozen, at my count) and the resin components (bases, objective markers, SDF-1)? Even if this can't be addressed 100%, showing off what is known (and expanding from there in the days or weeks as necessary) would be infinitely preferred to waiting months and entire quarters if a few aspects are holding things up.
2. What is the updated delivery target? Even with issues beyond ones control, surely it can narrowed down to some degree. 2016? Gencon 2016? Q2 2016? (Are we looking at a large slip, a medium slip, or a small one?)
3. What *tangible* progress on wave 2 can be shown? Renders, pre-production prototypes, 3D printed sprue piece tests, etc? The August 26th Update stated decisively that no wrongdoing was going on, and that progress was being made on Wave 2, and yet 2 months later all we see week to week is a shrinking reference to the project in the weekly newsletter, and updates that have nothing to do with wave 2 beyond a passing reference to conference calls or unspecified work.
Feel free to answer with a thorough 19 page treatise detailing the above as a Kickstarter Update rather than simply responding here, but despite some people being donkeycaves on the internet (and I'm sure I may be counted among them), I've always considered such statements to be challenges to do better. Prove me wrong. Showcase the alleged thousands of hours being put into this project, the proclaimed blood sweat and tears that have been spent and spilled to get this far, and show that things are in control, and are proceeding as according to plan.
Show that there is, in fact, a plan.
It has been often stated that people have told you to stop giving delivery dates, often preceding a vague delivery date. Most sensible people aren't expecting "Oh it'll be out of the warehouse by April 1st 2016", but simply to see the steps taken to get closer and closer to production and delivery, as the backers were assured would be the case in the Kickstarter campaign page. ("It is our commitment to you, the Kickstarter backers, that we will maintain consistent communication throughout the process. This means regular updates, product photos, and plenty of behind the scenes insight as we complete the creation of RRT").
2014 saw some controversy ("Spartangate"), but as someone who pays far too much attention to this project, it also generally saw constructive criticism and assent more than howling poop flinging in response to the Work In Progress shots that were provided (Glaug Officer's Pod adjustments, etc).
The parts count is being trimmed? Show it! Let us see renders where the 20+ parts for a figure in the wave one style is down to 10+ while retaining posability. Are most of the figures just about done? Show off a couple per update. Switching to one monthly update? Make it count!
For all my critique shared over the years, from asking for the opportunity to pay for Max and Miriya limited edition figures in 2013 to giving considerable benefit of the doubt until it became clear that one had to read between the lines on Updates, my friends and I didn't back for roughly $1,400 US just for gaks and giggles. We backed because we are fans of the IP, and because we were willing to give Palladium a chance to turn over a new leaf.
Wave one being a year late was unfortunate, but at least we felt that we were being shown progress. Wave two has not had that benefit, and it is to the projects detriment. Shutting up some of the loudmouths isn't difficult; like nature, backers abhor a vacuum.
Silence and misdirection (intentional or otherwise) is the biggest problem being faced.
Unless Rick and his ilk are right and there's a financing crisis going on behind the scenes, I suppose, but until shown otherwise I'll politely give the benefit of the doubt that that is not the case.
In the event someone actually reads all the way through here, thank you for your time.
Wording changed to reflect forum vulgarity policies. I was perhaps easier on them than I might've felt, but I wanted to prompt action, rather than purely put them on the defensive with unabashed whining and complaining. I pointed out what they've said they'd do, that they haven't done it, and offered constructively how they might improve.
Shocking nobody, I have not received a response.
Though I believe it was not long after I sent it that they finally abandoned 2015 as a target and moved to Q1 or Q2, but that may have been coincidence.
Also shoutout to Morgan for helping tighten up some of the points and wording!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 19:17:03
2015/12/08 21:34:11
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Isn't Jeffars statement about none of those methods of communication being used just proof that Palladium is not meeting its Kickstarter obligation of communicating with backers?
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/08 21:54:45
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Stormonu wrote: I know several folks are probably tired of hearing me and Rick beating on the "sue" soapbox, but I want to make a plea to urge folks one last time before the year is out to not take a "wait-and-see" attitude with PB. I feel it is clear the company has completely stagnated on its progress with this KS, and urge you to write, e-mail or otherwise contact palladium that this is not acceptable behavior - whether its requesting a refund, demanding an update, investigating legal action or just poking the bear, please don't let PB write us off with inaction.
I've been firmly in the equal parts biting sarcasm and apathy camp for the past year and a half but.. tell you what... if by the end of Q2/the"relaunch"/Gencon 2016 backers still haven't started getting their wave 2 products, I'll join in on filing complaints against Palladium. At that point, it'll be coming up on three years past their earliest post KS "estimate"/wild ass guess and if they haven't started delivering by that date then all but the most heavily armored White Knight should be ready to call them on their bluff.
The other benefit of waiting until then is that Rick's lawsuit will be at least half a year in already and there will be finally be lots of details about the actual (lack of) progress on Wave 2 by then. Rick, will you be filing your lawsuit that first week of the 2016?
2015/12/09 02:41:11
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Yknow ive seen several board game KS news articles pop up on gaming sites as of late... perhaps someone well versed with the quill should submit an article to those sites about this? increase public awareness and ruin Palladium/Kevins name a bit more
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2015/12/09 04:16:23
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Ruin? RUIN? Any publicity is good publicity! When the gaming public finds out that Palladium Books actually made it out of the 1990s and is still producing (the exact same thing from the 1990s) the PB warehouse will be emptied by ravenous fans!
2015/12/09 04:30:55
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Some Palladium fans have questioned why we have been spending so much time and resources on expanding the Robotech® game line, especially when we are so behind on book releases.
A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines.
Please be assured that Palladium is a role-playing game company, first and foremost. RPGs shall always remain our primary business. In fact, the success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ will enable us to do more of the role-playing game releases you love.
If we can get gamers and Robotech® fans to participate in our Kickstarter, we should be able to garner the funds we need to make this game epic. If we exceed our goals in a big way . . . we can do so much for it and all our product lines.
Be excited. We are. The expanding Robotech® product line means so much to Palladium’s future. Its success will affect and advance all our plans for role-playing releases and other fun products. As always, thank you for your support.
Oh, and this...
Our partner in this venture is Ninja Division
2015/12/09 05:01:57
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
"If we can get gamers and Robotech® fans to participate in our Kickstarter, we should be able to garner the funds we need to make this game epic. "
So, going back to the old scammer well, then?
"Some Palladium fans have questioned why we have been spending so much time and resources on expanding the Robotech® game line, especially when we are so behind on book releases."
See your honor? We're working on Wave Two SOOOOOO HARD that we're angering our REAL customers!
If Peter Griffin is the Spalding Gray of crap, surely Kevin Simbieda is the E.L. James of optimism. Or perhaps the Dan Brown of Martyrdom.
Oh, and when this chimp says "If we can get gamers and Robotech® fans to participate in our Kickstarter, we should be able to garner the funds we need to make this game epic. If we exceed our goals in a big way . . . we can do so much for it and all our product lines.", is he not flat out admitting he's going to raid the Kickstarter money for whatever other projects he feels like doing?
Oh, sorry, whatever projects the fans are demanding, I mean.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 05:09:02
2015/12/09 05:31:16
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Some Palladium fans have questioned why we have been spending so much time and resources on expanding the Robotech® game line, especially when we are so behind on book releases.
Why? I can give them about a million reasons why.... fethers.
Um, Meri, you do realize that he's commenting from a weekly update from 2013, right?
That's not new, it's very, very old, predating even the KS campaign by a couple of months.
I'd also point out that while interesting wording, "Partners" can mean a variety of things, from a generic sort of 'people we are working with' to a legal entity 'Partners' with a lot more weight behind it.
Given their grandiose way of talking in the updates, I'm not prone to taking that with a Capital P just yet, but will presumably be accused of pedantry so I'll just leave that there as a half thought.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 05:35:48
2015/12/09 06:00:56
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines.
Apparently $1.4 million wasn't a succesful enough launch to enable them to more staff and freelancers except for one guy months later who was there for less than a year. But, hey, I guess they eliminated that pesky debt apparently by exclusion because they certainly didn't spend the money on staff and making wave 2 rewards.
2015/12/09 06:02:00
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Mikes comment from the KS comments section about the possible reasons for why this project is where it is are pretty close to rumours I heard back when wave 1 was "in production".
I hadn't heard it specifically stated for the reasons Mike gave, just that they switched to a cheaper production method. It was also rumoured the rule book was amazingly expensive for a rule book.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/09 06:04:34
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Um, Meri, you do realize that he's commenting from a weekly update from 2013, right?
That's not new, it's very, very old, predating even the KS campaign by a couple of months.
I'd also point out that while interesting wording, "Partners" can mean a variety of things, from a generic sort of 'people we are working with' to a legal entity 'Partners' with a lot more weight behind it.
Given their grandiose way of talking in the updates, I'm not prone to taking that with a Capital P just yet, but will presumably be accused of pedantry so I'll just leave that there as a half thought.
My business buyers/customers like to call me a partner but in no way are we even equal in terms of standing as a supplier. It's fairly common because it makes the relationship sound a lot nicer than it really is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joyboozer wrote: Mikes comment from the KS comments section about the possible reasons for why this project is where it is are pretty close to rumours I heard back when wave 1 was "in production".
I hadn't heard it specifically stated for the reasons Mike gave, just that they switched to a cheaper production method. It was also rumoured the rule book was amazingly expensive for a rule book.
Why would the rulebook be amazingly expensive for a rulebook though?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/09 06:06:05
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2015/12/09 06:13:58
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Why would the rulebook be amazingly expensive for a rulebook though?
My guess is that it was just more expensive than they are used to as a full color glossy book with better art. They've been exclusively making the same style two column b&w pencil/pen art books for 30 years and probably got a bit of sticker shock when confronted with the cost of making a modern style book.
2015/12/09 06:36:35
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: Um, Meri, you do realize that he's commenting from a weekly update from 2013, right?
No, I didn't.
Still, my most important point stands. Looks like he was flat out admitting that, yes, he was going to use the KS money for other projects.
Well, it's not hard to have the copypasta kind of blend into each other and not know new from old from very old. It was only some of the "future tense" of the statements that made me take a second look at the URL and see it was a couple months before the KS.
And yes, the admission that he was intending to pay down debt and work on other game lines is pretty WTF. Neither were mentioned as part of the KS goals, and neither I think is legal under the KS T&C. I find it ironic that about 18 months ago, several people were questioning whether this kind of stuff had happened, and the idea was dismissed as irrational, and here Kevin is literally stating it was a goal, three months before the KS launched.
As for the employment situation, yeah Jeff was the first, and most significant hire, and we all know how that ended (if not the exacting specifics). But wasn't there a new one (I wanna say Chuck Walton, does that sound right?) who was mentioned as taking over certain roles, had a couple of posts and then like Jeff, appeared to not want to deal with the public. There's also the oft mentioned Carmen, who both seems to be someone of note, but also not. With the exception of Kevin, Wayne, and occasionally Alex, everyone else seems to be a Shrodinger's employee.
2015/12/09 08:40:12
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I'm always disappointed when there is actual photographic evidence of Palladium Books employees existing, the idea of one day going to an open house or convention and seeing Kevin rush off to another room, or duck behind a desk only to reappear in disguise claiming to be so one else always makes me laugh.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/09 10:52:02
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Carmen and Kevin are buddies. Carmen wrote the Powers Unlimited books which outright copied powers written by others on the forums. He then tried to claim he never looks at whats on the forums despite at least two powers being word for word copies. He also once showed the Rifts board game he had created.. which was basically a copy of the Talisman game.
2015/12/09 14:06:49
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
evilsmurf wrote: Carmen and Kevin are buddies. Carmen wrote the Powers Unlimited books which outright copied powers written by others on the forums. He then tried to claim he never looks at whats on the forums despite at least two powers being word for word copies. He also once showed the Rifts board game he had created.. which was basically a copy of the Talisman game.
No to mention the conventional rules that he almost passed off as his own creation.......until I sent an email thanking Kevin for using most of what the FB group came up with for the conventional stuff.....
No to mention the conventional rules that he almost passed off as his own creation.......until I sent an email thanking Kevin for using most of what the FB group came up with for the conventional stuff.....
Could be the reason they never released those rules, officially.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 14:28:15
2015/12/09 14:32:57
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Perhaps I'm giving this a more charitable read than they deserve, but this here;
3. The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines.
sounds like they're saying that RRT being successful will let them pay down debt, not that the KS campaign would.
Now, if I wanted to play Rules Lawyer, one could point out that KS funds ARE allowed to be used for operational costs, so even if they didn't originally plan to use the funds to pay down debt, they could use the funds to pay for existing costs, and woah, look they have extra money in the budget, might as well pay down some debt, what with money being a fungible resource. What isn't being used to pay for A can now be aimed at B.
Still, the statement in full reads more like "hey if this is successful we'll be rolling in it!" than "boy I can't wait to take KS funds and use them on non-KS things".
Though I am obviously willing to recognize that could have been the case anyway, as originally intended or because their hand was forced.
2015/12/09 15:05:19
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
It's fuzzy.
I'm not accusing them of anything, I'm just pointing out that prior to the KS they wrote what could be taken as admission that they planned on using the funds for other things as well as the KS.
It's up to any subsequent lawsuit to determine if that is true.
-- $k 
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