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Rick, you only get to feel smug when you actually accomplish something.

 warboss wrote:
Rick, you only get to feel smug when you actually accomplish something.

you are right I do.

Are you saying you got your refund?

I'm saying nothing, no longer my concern nor my care, have fun and good luck.

... *sigh*

There's, what, a dozen backers who read here? Two dozen? Even with the unfamiliar names popping up on the KS comments and updates, we're looking at what, 1% of the backers? 2%? 5%? Even doubled to account for lurkers who read but don't post, we're still talking a fairly small number of people (and not to forget that not everyone who reads/posts is unhappy).

"omg these backers are sooo apathetic" well yeah, and most of them don't give enough of a gak to read/post. There isn't going to be a grand thousand backer uprising, and putting that responsibility on the community as a whole is uncouth. You're not Rick Valjean up on the barricade walls. Like every backer, you have a choice as to what is and isn't acceptable, and what you will or won't do about it.

It'd be nice if we saw a considerable outcry, and frankly the kid gloves they've been handling things with may be reflective of not wishing to risk drawing enough ire to get people motivated in vast numbers (as a Spartangate 2.0 level clusterfeth might).

But let's focus on what we can control; ourselves. And if years of obscurity in the industry isn't going to push PB to change, I doubt a half dozen internet badasses like us are going to put much of a dent in their happy little world.

Edit:

Asterios wrote:
I'm saying nothing, no longer my concern nor my care, have fun and good luck.

Oh, never mind then.

Edit 2: he'll be back.

 Forar wrote:
There's, what, a dozen backers who read here? Two dozen? Even with the unfamiliar names popping up on the KS comments and updates, we're looking at what, 1% of the backers? 2%? 5%? Even doubled to account for lurkers who read but don't post, we're still talking a fairly small number of people (and not to forget that not everyone who reads/posts is unhappy).

FYI, I've been checking in on this thread (and the old one) every now and again since right after the kickstarter ended, but I'm not actually a backer as I missed the original kickstarter by a couple of months (lucky me; I totally would have spent more than I should have if I had known about the kickstarter in time). So I guess not everyone who reads this thread is even a backer. Just, you know, thought I'd mention it for clarity's sake.

Asterios wrote:
I'm saying nothing, no longer my concern nor my care, have fun and good luck.

Almost as much fun as a post from Kevin S.
So the "campaign for justice" has become the "You guess what I did farce.".
Too bad really.

Yeah, then there's the wandering jackasses that just pop in to comment on the latest non-news but who aren't backers either and thus have no standing to file a complaint. If I could I would though, because accountability for creators is a good thing.

I mainly follow threads like this to learn what to look for in a KS project as a red flag before I give away money. This and other projects have reinforced the lesson that after many years of operation, a company is who it is and more money isn't going to change that. PB was known for "over-promise/under-deliver" long before this project, and while they swore up and down that ND was going to be on point, I just didn't believe in PB enough to take the chance. In hindsight, a good choice.

The thread also helps me appreciate how lucky I am in my choices of projects to back. Of the 14 KS projects I've pledged on, I'd say the "worst" was DreamForge Games due to the massive delays (KD:M gets an "honorable" mention here, but I give them more leeway due to doing a game as well as models). However, the creator was communicative and the product when it finally arrived was excellent. Saying that's the worst KS project I've backed would be like walking into a group-therapy session for ex-convicts and going "Yeah, I know what it's like for you guys. When I was 5 my mom gave me a time-out, and that was a hard 30 minutes. Gave me some time to get my head straight, and now with <deity> as my guide I'm just trying to get my life back together..."

Asterios wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Must.. not.. comment... about... what... Rick... does... till... he's... blue... in... the... face... until... 2016....!!!

Palladium will do whatever they want regardless of what backers do. They'll draw this farce out until they lose the license or run out of money as it is likely slowly bleeding away paying some part of every bill they have (you need electricity after all to email once weekly for Robotech and a phone to make a call once a week for the project so Robotech should pay for part of it all for years!).

If we're "lucky", we'll get some janky PVC flash-filled mess of one piece minis in late 2016 or 2017 that make my old battletech unseen starter from the 1980's look nice.

sorry warboss, you are not lucky you are not getting anything, none of the lazy backers are getting anything, now tell PB Thank You for treating you like crud and go back to doing nothing and taking the lies passed out by PB.

I'm sorry, but the $60 I'm out from 2 years ago doesn't justify-to me-calling down the authority of the United States government or hiring a lawyer to forge brand new legal precedent. I'm pretty cool with Palladium's reputation being thoroughly and utterly trashed in the gaming community. I only wish that they would just admit defeat and stop blowing smoke.

My sympathies are with people who have lost more money on this. And I support any efforts you guys make to get your money back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And lets be clear. If you have gotten a refund and are not telling us if you have or not. Then you are being just as selfish. If Palladium issued you a refund, they are entitled to issue one to anyone who asks.

You could have very well denied any offer of a refund if an NDA was attached and still moved ahead with legal action.

 warboss wrote:
Rick, you only get to feel smug when you actually accomplish something.

So, now this is a visualization of a "legal tsunami"?

But let's focus on what we can control; ourselves. And if years of obscurity in the industry isn't going to push PB to change, I doubt a half dozen internet badasses like us are going to put much of a dent in their happy little world.

Agreed. Which is what I was saying would happen all along...

I guess I was right after all.

His last post sure looks like he got his refund, and possibly a NDA to go with it. Basically, it looks like they got way to close for PB's comfort.

The truth will not be known, unless he comes out and says something about it.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
His last post sure looks like he got his refund, and possibly a NDA to go with it. Basically, it looks like they got way to close for PB's comfort.

The truth will not be known, unless he comes out and says something about it.

In re-reading his past few posts, I agree with that PB refunded him for his silence. Totally reasonable settlement, and exactly the expected result. Anybody who thought otherwise just doesn't get how things work.

I assume that there is a clawback provision if he says anything about it. Possibly liquidated damages in excess of the actual refund amount, due to breach of confidentiality. If a group of backers were to cover the clawback and damages, he might say something, but even then, I'm not sure that would be a legally-advisable move on his part. Intent of a deliberate breach could be cause for further / enhanced damages, and he would no longer hold the legal / moral high ground.

I don't expect him to post anything further anywhere, nor do I expect him to return any PMs on the subject; I anticipate that his ongoing silence will speak volumes.

If people wanted details, they should have worked with him prior to the legal notice being sent.

Anyhow, congrats to Rick, assuming that he got refunded. Even if he didn't and is simply in a "quiet period" after notice / filing, that's something I'd congratulate him on. You see, unlike PB, he actually did what he said what he would.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
His last post sure looks like he got his refund, and possibly a NDA to go with it. Basically, it looks like they got way to close for PB's comfort.

The truth will not be known, unless he comes out and says something about it.

If you hear hoof beats, exlude horses before you jump to the conclusion of zebras. He was asked to put up or shut up. The simplest explanation is that he is finally choosing the latter.

 warboss wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
His last post sure looks like he got his refund, and possibly a NDA to go with it. Basically, it looks like they got way to close for PB's comfort.

The truth will not be known, unless he comes out and says something about it.

If you hear hoof beats, exlude horses before you jump to the conclusion of zebras. He was asked to put up or shut up. The simplest explanation is that he is finally choosing the latter.

Yes, but the "it is no longer my concern nor care" that gets me. It doesn't sound like a "I'll shut up now" comment.



If you are in a region with Zebras, then maybe you should think Zebra before you think horse.

Sure it could be either one, but don't exclude one of the options just because it doesn't fit your beliefs. What I have read, and the implications of the words used, I believe he got his refund, with a NDA attached. Do I know for sure? No, but then neither do you. (unless you are a member of one side or the others legal team or one of the parties involved)

From:



to:



for only $120!

Of course the real answer iis that having got his own Wave 2 created (and later series) he has been offered and accepted the role of design and miniature production expert from Kevin for the princely sum of 30 pieces of silver.

Just a gentle bit of joshing , as we awaiit the "Mghty One's"Christmas address.

Which will be a true RPG scenario of the goodly King beset on all sides by evil and trecherous minions - not to mention those peasants wanting something or other he forgets what. However help is on hand from his hand picked band of White Nits - sorry typo I meant Knights.

THe go forth with the terrifying warcry "We are the knights who say "No" and beat the serfs up with rolled up copies of the Rifter

 megatrons2nd wrote:


Yes, but the "it is no longer my concern nor care" that gets me. It doesn't sound like a "I'll shut up now" comment.



If you are in a region with Zebras, then maybe you should think Zebra before you think horse.

Sure it could be either one, but don't exclude one of the options just because it doesn't fit your beliefs. What I have read, and the implications of the words used, I believe he got his refund, with a NDA attached. Do I know for sure? No, but then neither do you. (unless you are a member of one side or the others legal team or one of the parties involved)

Or perhaps aliens abducted the REAL rick and replaced him with a poorly designed multipart copy with seams all across every ventral surface. He no longer cares because he is a low res 3d print glued and assembled multiple times by Wayne until he got something close enough. This life model decoy rickopy has access to his dakka account and is posting now. Do I know for sure? No, but then neither do you. (unless you've performed detailed genetic and material testing on "rick" both before and after). You see how the lack of any facts can be used to justify almost anything? The absence of proof is NOT proof. Either way, everyone wins if a refund is "no longer his concern". I welcome his further posts about his hobby efforts though.

I was thinking of Rick reading Kevin the Riot Act a la Sam in Pulp Fiction.

There are rumours it was Kevin Siembida artwork in the briefcase from Pulp Fiction.
Jesus Christ, is there some way to fix it when some dill weed posts a giant image and blows the whole page out on a mobile device?

Joyboozer wrote:
There are rumours it was Kevin Siembida artwork in the briefcase from Pulp Fiction.
Jesus Christ, is there some way to fix it when some dill weed posts a giant image and blows the whole page out on a mobile device?

Pulp Fiction the movie would indeed be an appropriate reference as it probably dates from the time of the missing work of artTM. As for the second part, you could of course upgrade from your megaversal quality browser to one that autoresizes. I recommend opera if your bandwith is limited or chrome if not (on android of course... no idea able the apple ecosystem if you even have a choice there).

Also, thanks to your post, I now know it is safe to type a certain pants on head anatomical insult at dakka because it autocorrects it to the spice dillweed.

"I'm going to take down Palladium Books! You'll see!" -Asterios

"Yeah, sure you are...good luck with that..." - Capt K

And I was the unrealistic and delusional one...LOLz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So true.

 Alpharius wrote:
From:



to:



for only $120!

 warboss wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
There are rumours it was Kevin Siembida artwork in the briefcase from Pulp Fiction.
Jesus Christ, is there some way to fix it when some dill weed posts a giant image and blows the whole page out on a mobile device?

Pulp Fiction the movie would indeed be an appropriate reference as it probably dates from the time of the missing work of artTM. As for the second part, you could of course upgrade from your megaversal quality browser to one that autoresizes. I recommend opera if your bandwith is limited or chrome if not (on android of course... no idea able the apple ecosystem if you even have a choice there).

Also, thanks to your post, I now know it is safe to type a certain pants on head anatomical insult at dakka because it autocorrects it to the spice dillweed.

I'm not sure what word you're thinking of, I typed merijeek

Joyboozer wrote:
There are rumours it was Kevin Siembida artwork in the briefcase from Pulp Fiction.
Jesus Christ, is there some way to fix it when some dill weed posts a giant image and blows the whole page out on a mobile device?

It was all part of my master plan! I figured we needed a giant sized hunk of serenity.

It worked! My serenity was intense!

Serenity?


Dude, that doesn't work. Serenity now, insanity later.

Whelp, the Riquisition will have to wait, because we've got a weekly newsletter on our hands!

... except it says literally nothing about RRT. Nada. The only references in it to Robotech are one of the 'messages from grab bag buyers', the Expeditionary Marines book, and RRT's usual catalog listing, given a prominent place of honour at the bottom of the page with only the print on demand stuff getting a less prestigious spot (okay and some PFRPG book).

Sooooo back to what you were up to I guess.

Edit: oh, also, we all called it, the grab bags are extended to the 11th. So that's another 2 weeks or so that they'll just be 'shipping like madmen' and will probably be too busy to do anything but work that warehouse and making gamers around the world grin and giggle like small children with glee and loving adoration...

*jazzhands!*

Edit 2. Oh. My. God. Has anyone ever noticed anything weird about their newsletter url?

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=822%3Apalladium-booksr-weekly-update-december-23-2015&catid=52%3Aweekly-updates&Itemid=183

Here, I'll snip out the part I'm talking about; Apalladium-booksr-weekly-update

booksr?

OH MY GOD THEY HAVE THE ® IN THE FETHING UPDATE URL!

Yeah, I just read the non-update. I'd could gloat about calling the extension of the grab bag but it's just simple pattern recognition; they do it every time they have a big offer. Also, there is the long part about mental illness in the post that I can't help but think that it is there at least partially to elicit sympathy for Palladium. Now, I won't make light of the actual content because it is a serious issue but I can honestly say that I think so little of the company that I really was expecting a "so cheer yourself up by picking up a grab bag this season!" at the end. For once in 2015, Palladium exceeded my very low expectations and didn't include a tacky sales pitch within the same paragraph at least; they instead put in one or two carriage returns before continuing the hard sell on the next RPG book.

Either way, none of this is a surprise and we'll finish out 2015 just like we started it... with no wave 2 product in hand and wondering when the hell we'll be getting any real info about it.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Merry Christmas to you as well!

And yeah, I noticed the bit about mental illness. While sadly appropriate for the season (depression and other illnesses can be particularly rough around the holidays), ever since the bit they wrote up about Paris, it still strikes me as strange to have a big Public Service Announcement in the middle of their copy-pasted sales pitch. It's tonally inconsistent.

A murmur might be a far better place to put such a thing, though I suppose the newsletter probably reaches the highest number of people.

Still, as much as I can appreciate when a company acts in a responsible fashion, there's something just a bit off about these bits.

 Forar wrote:
Merry Christmas to you as well!

And yeah, I noticed the bit about mental illness. While sadly appropriate for the season (depression and other illnesses can be particularly rough around the holidays), ever since the bit they wrote up about Paris, it still strikes me as strange to have a big Public Service Announcement in the middle of their copy-pasted sales pitch. It's tonally inconsistent.

A murmur might be a far better place to put such a thing, though I suppose the newsletter probably reaches the highest number of people.

Still, as much as I can appreciate when a company acts in a responsible fashion, there's something just a bit off about these bits.

Thanks! And, yeah, it just feels off but I'll admit that I'm biased as to how I interpret Palladium's actions and motives due to how badly they've treated backers while simultaneously pretending to occupy some sort of morale high ground. I agree it would have been more appropriate as a murmur post on their forums. I don't have any issue with it in a weekly update but I do think it detracts from the message to sandwich it in the middle between two large sections of pure sales pitches. It would have been better and more authentic appearing if they had just ended the update at that point instead of copy pasting several dozen sales pitches after it. Eh, whatever. I don't wish the company or its employees ill but I just want my remaining rewards so I can be done with dealing with them likely forever (barring some huge robotech scene suddenly popping up in my FLGS).