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Merijeek wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It's like breaking the Hobbit into 3 movies!

And, boy oh boy, did that result in a superior product and happy fans!

That's why when a product is substandard there are people out in the wild who take it upon themselves to make it what it should be. https://tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/ in the case of the Hobbit.

here is my Robotech Tribute to StarBlazers, will be doing 3 veritech sets of these and one of Wildstars ship:

 Alpharius wrote:

◾Dead Reign® Sourcebook: Hell Followed™ by Taylor White – a large, juicy, 160 page sourcebook. Spring or Summer.

Ugh.

And if they don't say a release date for RRPGT Wave 2, they can't be late, right?

Todd Ferrullo over on the Kickstarter Comments posted a similar PBWU to this one, but from this time last year. In the "To be done within the first six months of 2015", lists five books. Bizantium, RT Marines, DR Hell Followed, CE Ressurection, and CE First Responders (I don't count Rifters, or branded dicebags as worth listing).

Of those items, I know Byzantium was released in that timeframe. I know CE Ressurection wasn't until the end of the year (failed target). And two items that were due in TF6MO2015 have been punted to TF6MO2016. Not sure when RT Marines was actually completed for sale (I know preview copies were available at the POH, and I think the book was done at GenCon), so PB are getting 20-40% of their promises done. Yay them! I don't think anything from the "rest of 2015 and beyond" got done. And yet PB continue with setting unrealistic expectations for themselves that I doubt anyone who's been paying attention believes in.

As for the release date on Wave 2, that's about right. Of course, they won't stick to that, and at some point, PB will announce it'll be complete 9 months from when they speak out on the subject. Because they have no idea what they're doing.

Nice Black Tigers Asterios!

Morgan, the RT Marines book had been touted since the RRT campaign was going, if not years before. On the RPG line they are sooooo dedicated to, 2 1/2 to 3 years seems to be the average - some books upwards of 5 years.

How can we expect a company that only releases 2 books a year - which are already late by years - to fund completing a game whose funds were eaten up producing the first half?

 Generalstoner wrote:
Nice Black Tigers Asterios!

Thank you.

So I quite enjoyed Marcross Frontier, lots of giant robots, crazy weapons, sort of a plot and the singing wasn't too bad either.

Of course it was ultimately about a group of high school students who fly space fighters in their spare time or are pop idol/messiahs, but that's just Macross at this point.

Still I wonder whenever I see this logo



Did some poor graphic designer think the show was spelled Macross Flontier and have to add a line to make the L an R?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:
here is my Robotech Tribute to StarBlazers, will be doing 3 veritech sets of these and one of Wildstars ship:

Awesome, you should also do a tribute to Susumu Kodai's fighter in Space Battleship Yamato, very similar color scheme.

I'd love to get an affordable copy of Space Battleship Yamato 2199 in the US (if anyone knows where I can, please let me know).

Of course, it'd also be nice to be able to get all the later Macross stuff legally here as well.

 Stormonu wrote:
I'd love to get an affordable copy of Space Battleship Yamato 2199 in the US (if anyone knows where I can, please let me know).

Of course, it'd also be nice to be able to get all the later Macross stuff legally here as well.

Is that the live action version? If it is, check Family Video. My local Family Video has the live action one on hand, and you can purchase movies from them relatively cheap.

God, I sound like a commercial.

Reading the N&R forum this morning there was the article about the seeming demise of Alien Dungeon/All Quiet on the Martian Front. This comment amused me:

Jonwayne Stricker wrote:sounds exactly like what happened to all of us that supported the kickstarter for the RObotech tatics.. still waiting for half the stuff they promised me.

And the response from the blog author:

Blaine Pardoe wrote:Robotech really set the bar for screwed up Kickstarters and defined new ways to piss off your customer base.

So warboss was right all along! Even when the company who makes most of your KS product closes down before the end, the mantra appears to be "at least it's not fething Robotech..."

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Asterios wrote:
here is my Robotech Tribute to StarBlazers, will be doing 3 veritech sets of these and one of Wildstars ship:

Awesome, you should also do a tribute to Susumu Kodai's fighter in Space Battleship Yamato, very similar color scheme.

Thats what i'm doing he was called Wildstar in US.

was gonna make a squad of 3 of these guys and 1 of his fighter.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
I'd love to get an affordable copy of Space Battleship Yamato 2199 in the US (if anyone knows where I can, please let me know).

Of course, it'd also be nice to be able to get all the later Macross stuff legally here as well.

Is that the live action version? If it is, check Family Video. My local Family Video has the live action one on hand, and you can purchase movies from them relatively cheap.

God, I sound like a commercial.

Yamato 2199 was a remake of the original 1st series with the Gamilons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:


Thats what i'm doing he was called Wildstar in US.

was gonna make a squad of 3 of these guys and 1 of his fighter.

Derek Wildstar to be precise

 Krinsath wrote:

Blaine Pardoe wrote:Robotech really set the bar for screwed up Kickstarters and defined new ways to piss off your customer base.

So warboss was right all along! Even when the company who makes most of your KS product closes down before the end, the mantra appears to be "at least it's not fething Robotech..."

Ouch.

My concern is that the bar is set... and kept moving lower.

Or, like the voices are screaming inside Kevin's head, "MORE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT PALLADIUM BOOKS THAN EVER BEFORE! YOU'RE CRUSHING IT, D00D!"

I'm sure one of Kevin's butt-kissers is telling him "any publicity is good publicity"...

Six weeks of silence after the Kevster told us news was coming. My already thin patience (what remained of it) snapped today.

I blame being buried alive in my apartment by this blizzard.

I complained to the Michigan Attorney General and the FTC today. It probably won't achieve anything, but who knows? One more complaint followed by one more, etc. might get things in gear at the very least.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did increase their book production a bit. They are probably trying to generate money for wave 2.

Bah, Kevin's admitted his typical book run is 1,000 copies. At $20 per, that's only $20K net, maybe $10K profit. Two books per year. And that's when they sell out (which they've seem to keep stock for years, as evidenced by their grab bags...).

Assuming Wave 2 would cost them about what they expected their initial (non-stretch goal) Wave 1 would cost - ~$900,000 - it would take them 45 DEDICATED years to come up with the money, assuming they didn't spend it on such frivolities as rent, power and employees...

 Stormonu wrote:
Bah, Kevin's admitted his typical book run is 1,000 copies. At $20 per, that's only $20K net, maybe $10K profit. Two books per year. And that's when they sell out (which they've seem to keep stock for years, as evidenced by their grab bags...).

Assuming Wave 2 would cost them about what they expected their initial (non-stretch goal) Wave 1 would cost - ~$900,000 - it would take them 45 DEDICATED years to come up with the money, assuming they didn't spend it on such frivolities as rent, power and employees...

No idea what it is but I call serious BS on these numbers.....
1. Most books cost $1-2 to print
2. They sell to distributors for much more than that.
3. The also sell books directly
4. PB could not pay the employees and keep the lights on with $20k/year.

Let's say they make $8 per book....that means it's more like $160000+ a year, which is still too low to pay everyone and keep the lights on. So you also need to include sales of existing books and that would add a lot more to the numbers.

Which is why even with regular (or irregularly frequent) 'sales', it's hard to imagine they're doing much more than treading water. Pencils? Mouse Pads? Kevin's random stuff on eBay? These can't be massive money making ventures. They talk about doing hundreds of grab bags (in aggregate), but even at thousands, pulling in 40k, 80k, hell over 100k (and I'm not convinced they're selling 2,500+ of those things, but let's be really generous here), that's after paying for materials, shipping (if just getting it to their warehouse), keeping the lights/heat/internet/rent/other bills covered, and a living wage of their own.

And that's presumably a drop in the bucket of what it'll take to punch out and ship wave 2.

Even if they're not broke (as many allege, I don't know or really care either way, the results are the same currently), the occasional person who claims that their ongoing sales and new nick knacks are meant to build funds for Wave 2 strike me as cheerfully naive. How many of those Glitter Boy Jackets do they really think are selling? How many courier bags? Pencils? What kind of margins do these starry eyed folks really think there are with print on demand items?

Even if they're selling 10,000 copies (between global distribution to limited stores/fronts/online retailers) and stock on hand for direct sales and the next round of Grab Bags, 80k (to use Mike's ballpark) then breaks down to half a dozen employees, all their overhead, whatever debt they might owe (if it wasn't covered with KS funds, another theory I don't necessarily abide but wouldn't rule out entirely either), freelancers, future product funding, etc.

Without the books we can nitpick the particulars, but the reality is that they're not going to claw their way up to 6 figures or more for another massive figure production and distribution run with mugs and mouse pads.

Not intended to debate any points so much as put to 'paper' something that rattles around every so often and I see people making excuses on the PB Forums and whatnot.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Bah, Kevin's admitted his typical book run is 1,000 copies. At $20 per, that's only $20K net, maybe $10K profit. Two books per year. And that's when they sell out (which they've seem to keep stock for years, as evidenced by their grab bags...).

Assuming Wave 2 would cost them about what they expected their initial (non-stretch goal) Wave 1 would cost - ~$900,000 - it would take them 45 DEDICATED years to come up with the money, assuming they didn't spend it on such frivolities as rent, power and employees...

No idea what it is but I call serious BS on these numbers.....
1. Most books cost $1-2 to print
2. They sell to distributors for much more than that.
3. The also sell books directly
4. PB could not pay the employees and keep the lights on with $20k/year.

Let's say they make $8 per book....that means it's more like $160000+ a year, which is still too low to pay everyone and keep the lights on. So you also need to include sales of existing books and that would add a lot more to the numbers.

Damn, too much angst at Kevin, I guess. Hadn't considered their old books might be more than a dribble (from what I'd read on other RPG publishers, books sales fall off tremendously after 3 months).

At about $160K, that would be somewhere around 20K books a year, I think. That's about 1,500 to 1,600 books a month. Do they really chuck that much out to unsuspecting RP'ers a month? I'd be very doubtful, myself.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Bah, Kevin's admitted his typical book run is 1,000 copies. At $20 per, that's only $20K net, maybe $10K profit. Two books per year. And that's when they sell out (which they've seem to keep stock for years, as evidenced by their grab bags...).

Assuming Wave 2 would cost them about what they expected their initial (non-stretch goal) Wave 1 would cost - ~$900,000 - it would take them 45 DEDICATED years to come up with the money, assuming they didn't spend it on such frivolities as rent, power and employees...

No idea what it is but I call serious BS on these numbers.....
1. Most books cost $1-2 to print
2. They sell to distributors for much more than that.
3. The also sell books directly
4. PB could not pay the employees and keep the lights on with $20k/year.

Let's say they make $8 per book....that means it's more like $160000+ a year, which is still too low to pay everyone and keep the lights on. So you also need to include sales of existing books and that would add a lot more to the numbers.

Damn, too much angst at Kevin, I guess. Hadn't considered their old books might be more than a dribble (from what I'd read on other RPG publishers, books sales fall off tremendously after 3 months).

At about $160K, that would be somewhere around 20K books a year, I think. That's about 1,500 to 1,600 books a month. Do they really chuck that much out to unsuspecting RP'ers a month? I'd be very doubtful, myself.

LOL, not defending, jsut looking for accurate numbers and those were not even close.....on a good day. I think they sell more than we give them credit for. They have to just to pay the employees they have, all 7 or 8. Plus Kevin. I don't see them scraping 6 figures anytime soon either.

Yeah, I think it's getting to the point where I need to step away from this entire thing for a few months. I can't seem to keep away from poking my head in to see if anything's changed, but knowing it won't.

A think a good 3-6 months of staying out of this thread would be best for me (and my blood pressure). Things won't have changed in that time, I'm sure. Plenty of other (positive) threads to haunt on here.

Mike, if they're quantities are only runs of 1000, I don't think your print costs are even close to accurate, unless their books are cheap black and white rubbish, I haven't seen any since the very early 90s.

Theres also the money they make from their 'open house' semi annual event. Though I have no idea how much that is, between door fee and product sales.

Joyboozer wrote:
Mike, if they're quantities are only runs of 1000, I don't think your print costs are even close to accurate, unless their books are cheap black and white rubbish, I haven't seen any since the very early 90s.

They are.

The only PB book I've ever seen with a quality similar to current print/layout standards of the industry is the RRT one.

 Albertorius wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
Mike, if they're quantities are only runs of 1000, I don't think your print costs are even close to accurate, unless their books are cheap black and white rubbish, I haven't seen any since the very early 90s.

They are.

The only PB book I've ever seen with a quality similar to current print/layout standards of the industry is the RRT one.

Really?
That's really sad, the RRT book was probably a really big deal for them, seeing their name on a book of that quality after what they're used to, then having to go back to the same old, same old, knowing it'll never come around again.

Joyboozer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
Mike, if they're quantities are only runs of 1000, I don't think your print costs are even close to accurate, unless their books are cheap black and white rubbish, I haven't seen any since the very early 90s.

They are.

The only PB book I've ever seen with a quality similar to current print/layout standards of the industry is the RRT one.

Really?
That's really sad, the RRT book was probably a really big deal for them, seeing their name on a book of that quality after what they're used to, then having to go back to the same old, same old, knowing it'll never come around again.

Just so we're on the same page, this is from one of their latest books:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/104490/Rifts-Black-Market-Preview?cPath=4816_5190

Take a look at the sample.

Joyboozer wrote:
Mike, if they're quantities are only runs of 1000, I don't think your print costs are even close to accurate, unless their books are cheap black and white rubbish, I haven't seen any since the very early 90s.

I used to work at a college book distributor warehouse and they would pay $4-5 for a book that would sell to a student for $120...granted that was 20 years ago. I used to buy school books that would be $100 for ~$40 at work. If we got a load with paperback in it those you could take home for free. They did not care.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
Mike, if they're quantities are only runs of 1000, I don't think your print costs are even close to accurate, unless their books are cheap black and white rubbish, I haven't seen any since the very early 90s.

I used to work at a college book distributor warehouse and they would pay $4-5 for a book that would sell to a student for $120...granted that was 20 years ago. I used to buy school books that would be $100 for ~$40 at work. If we got a load with paperback in it those you could take home for free. They did not care.

Yes, study materials going on line really cut into my bottom line a few years back.