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Say Jaymz would you be able to talk a bit more about that living palladium project, even by pm if not publicly? If not, thats ok.

Just curious about what the concepts involved for it were and whether anything was worked out before it stopped.

I would rather not discuss it here as this is rrt.

If you have facebook feel free to message me

Jaymz LaFlamme

Right now my profile pic is the Chicago Blackhawks symbol.

Ok. Found it.

So, I did a look through the events PB listed as "Upcoming Palladium Books® Convention Events" on last week's PBWU, that states "Below are just some of the conventions hosting Palladium game events this year.". Of the 9 events listed prior to GenCon, we have...

Two Conventions that have two RPG games each (SaltCon, RageCon*).
Two Conventions that have no events lists, at least in an easy to find manner (KatsuCon, Anime North).
One Convention that doesn't appear to exist online (International Tabletop Day Event Hosted by RAGECon).
Four Conventions that have event lists and don't show a single RRT or PBRPG event, as of now (Strategicon, Pensacon, CoastCon, Adepticon).

* RageCon lists them as "Rifts", which I'll assume are the Palladium version, but is not specifically listed as such (meaning that it was harder to find, than it should be)

Now, I may have missed some, but I did more than a cursory search, and if it's harder than that to find, they need to get the information out better. And if I did find all there was to find, that's not a good looking ratio for the RPG side (four events over nine conventions). Less so for RRT which seemingly has no events up to and including GenCon.

But it doesn't seem out of character for PB. Promise 20 books, deliver on 4. Promise 9 months for Wave 2 (Jan 2014), fail to deliver in 25+. Promise to have a presence at 9 conventions, deliver (barely) on 2.

Morgan Vening wrote:

But it doesn't seem out of character for PB. Promise 20 books, deliver on 4. Promise 9 months for Wave 2 (Jan 2014), fail to deliver in 25+. Promise to have a presence at 9 conventions, deliver (barely) on 2.

I don't think we are surprised much, any more.

I actually posted info on how to file vs PB with my Mechwarrior Online unit today. turns out a number of us are in the same boat.

darkminstrel wrote:
I actually posted info on how to file vs PB with my Mechwarrior Online unit today. turns out a number of us are in the same boat.

Nice! The great "unseen" strikes again!
I had not thought of that venue and it makes sense: good work.
Not that MechWarrior gamer/pilots do not love Robotech on it's own.

Could you imagine piloting a Veritech?
It would be alternating moments of exhilaration and filling your shorts.

That would be a LAM for mechwarriors

jaymz wrote:
That would be a LAM for mechwarriors

I was tempted to add that.
They were cool and all but generally garbage especially when figuring out a custom mech.
The transformation gear just took too much weight better used for more weapons.
Flying a "LAM" would be even more scary: Battletech technology comes across as a bit more brittle than Robotech: I would expect some pretty spectacular failures.

Morgan Vening wrote:
So, I did a look through the events PB listed as "Upcoming Palladium Books® Convention Events" on last week's PBWU, that states "Below are just some of the conventions hosting Palladium game events this year.". Of the 9 events listed prior to GenCon, we have...

Two Conventions that have two RPG games each (SaltCon, RageCon*).
Two Conventions that have no events lists, at least in an easy to find manner (KatsuCon, Anime North).
One Convention that doesn't appear to exist online (International Tabletop Day Event Hosted by RAGECon).
Four Conventions that have event lists and don't show a single RRT or PBRPG event, as of now (Strategicon, Pensacon, CoastCon, Adepticon).

* RageCon lists them as "Rifts", which I'll assume are the Palladium version, but is not specifically listed as such (meaning that it was harder to find, than it should be)

Now, I may have missed some, but I did more than a cursory search, and if it's harder than that to find, they need to get the information out better. And if I did find all there was to find, that's not a good looking ratio for the RPG side (four events over nine conventions). Less so for RRT which seemingly has no events up to and including GenCon.

But it doesn't seem out of character for PB. Promise 20 books, deliver on 4. Promise 9 months for Wave 2 (Jan 2014), fail to deliver in 25+. Promise to have a presence at 9 conventions, deliver (barely) on 2.

Coastcon? I can drop by that one and verify it. But, having been to that for the past 25+ years, I haven't seen a single PB game, much less RRT played there. And as small as that Con is (maaaybe 800-1,000 attendees), if there has been 5 or more poeple in the entire state who own RRT, much less show up, I'd be surprised. Sadly, Mississippi is such a gaming wasteland - unless you're into Magic.

<EDIT> I also just checked the current list of scheduled games - unsurpisingly, they aren't listed.

 Stormonu wrote:
Coastcon? I can drop by that one and verify it. But, having been to that for the past 25+ years, I haven't seen a single PB game, much less RRT played there. And as small as that Con is (maaaybe 800-1,000 attendees), if there has been 5 or more poeple in the entire state who own RRT, much less show up, I'd be surprised. Sadly, Mississippi is such a gaming wasteland - unless you're into Magic.

<EDIT> I also just checked the current list of scheduled games - unsurpisingly, they aren't listed.

Yeah, I went through all the links that PB provided (prior to GenCon), and checked through the events lists they had. Apparently Anime North hasn't been confirmed yet, and there's a PB Forumer who is of the belief there'll be events there. But for the remainder, there's not much. Definitely a a good portion that shouldn't be claimed as "hosting Palladium game events".

And the International Tabletop Day Event I could find no reference to, either in the link provided, or in a google search.

The only events at anime north would be demos. Very little gaming goes on there that i've ever seen.

jaymz wrote:
The only events at anime north would be demos. Very little gaming goes on there that i've ever seen.

Aren't they going as guests of honor like the last time? Isn't that why they went last time? The only anime property they have is robotech and I don't think Kev and Wayne are going to demo it tgere. I suspect they're spending money (ours?) for the opportunity to be adored properly. They're no longer getting the veneration they desire on Facebook or their own forums.

 warboss wrote:
Aren't they going as guests of honor like the last time? Isn't that why they went last time? The only anime property they have is robotech and I don't think Kev and Wayne are going to demo it tgere. I suspect they're spending money (ours?) for the opportunity to be adored properly. They're no longer getting the veneration they desire on Facebook or their own forums.

It wasn't just guests of honour, weren't they getting an actual award of some sort last time?

As for adoration, don't worry, once the next sweep is conducted of the forums and FB, a proper level of cheerful appreciation will surely reign.

Which is to say I suspect I'm not far from a banning there. Again.

Because the truth hurts, and these days I'm not afraid to twist the blade a little.

 Forar wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Aren't they going as guests of honor like the last time? Isn't that why they went last time? The only anime property they have is robotech and I don't think Kev and Wayne are going to demo it tgere. I suspect they're spending money (ours?) for the opportunity to be adored properly. They're no longer getting the veneration they desire on Facebook or their own forums.

It wasn't just guests of honour, weren't they getting an actual award of some sort last time?

As for adoration, don't worry, once the next sweep is conducted of the forums and FB, a proper level of cheerful appreciation will surely reign.

Which is to say I suspect I'm not far from a banning there. Again.

Because the truth hurts, and these days I'm not afraid to twist the blade a little.

Yeah, something like that. I guess appealing to their egos has a half life of greater than two years. As for the truth, it does hurt...you. Via banning. Kev and friends have a 98% in the Justify Anything skill and a RCC bonus of +76 versus reality saves so they're functionally immune to the truth.

Nah, frankly not being allowed to comment on either forum just leaves me more time to devote to snark here and on the KS Comments.

:-D

Or, y'know, find hobbies I actually enjoy.

Speaking of which, X-Com 2 is so good you guys! SO GOOD!

 Forar wrote:
Nah, frankly not being allowed to comment on either forum just leaves me more time to devote to snark here and on the KS Comments.

:-D

Or, y'know, find hobbies I actually enjoy.

Speaking of which, X-Com 2 is so good you guys! SO GOOD!

I'm jealous. I'm still a console peasant (or was until my 360 broke one last time..haven't decided if I'll skip this gen) but really enjoyed the previous on (unknown and within). It was as close to tabletop gaming on a console as I'd seen for years.

Hello there,

I have sat in the shadows for quite sometime, watching this horror show unfold and I thought maybe I would get my two cents in. It may fall flat, but I wanted to chime in as a former fan of Palladium Books. I say former because I have now sold off 95% of my sizeable collection and actively avoid even mentioning the company name when discussing my RP hobby, choosing only to promote Pathfinder and Dragon Age.

Anyway, with the Facebook purges and the FotM sweeps, I think it's gotten to a point where going after them on their territory has proven to be ineffective. I empathize with all of you, I really do. But now the time has come for the game, and Palladium Books to simply dry up and waste away. Spread the word about how much BS this Kickstarter was, and let it be at that.

King Kevin sees all of this talk, negative and positive, as a form of promotion. Dry up the conversation on Facebook and the FotM, and you may see a reaction akin to "Hey, where'd everyone go?"

Already, the RRT section of their forums has become something of a ghost town. Now it really needs to become one. Same thing with Facebook, without the constant comments on their updates, that place would quickly become an echo chamber.

I am no white knight, so please, do not misconstrue my post as me trying to silence you all. I am not. I am, however, suggesting using a different tactic. The loss of Jaymz and Mike1975 as pseudo "ambassadors" to their game has probably been a massive blow. Now the rest of the backers need to follow suit.

Hopefully when PB fails, some form of restitution find its way into your hands.

Nope. File with BBB, FTC and MI AG. Wait a while then proceed with small claims court for breach of contract. I'll be starting prep for the last one in a few weeks.

And the PBWS is a bit of a surprise.

"UPDATE Rifts® Movie

Recently, I’ve gotten some inquiries about the Rifts® Movie, optioned by the Walt Disney Company for development by Jerry Bruckheimer Films. We have not been informed of any new developments on that front, but that does not mean they aren’t working on it and keeping it under wraps. Fingers crossed. Meanwhile, we are exploring other possibilities for licenses and new market areas for Rifts® and other game lines. Time will tell."

I wonder how they feel when the boot's on the other foot? But I can also see that as an indication that WE are just supposed to keep our fingers crossed that there will ever be any further movement on RRT.

Less surprising is the complete lack of "Update" on RRT, just more "You too can get started on this wonderful game, but wave 1 base boxes and expansions NOW!"

Yawn.

Is it time for another timeline update yet?

 Conrad Turner wrote:
And the PBWS is a bit of a surprise.

"UPDATE Rifts® Movie

Recently, I’ve gotten some inquiries about the Rifts® Movie, optioned by the Walt Disney Company for development by Jerry Bruckheimer Films. We have not been informed of any new developments on that front, but that does not mean they aren’t working on it and keeping it under wraps. Fingers crossed. Meanwhile, we are exploring other possibilities for licenses and new market areas for Rifts® and other game lines. Time will tell."

I wonder how they feel when the boot's on the other foot? But I can also see that as an indication that WE are just supposed to keep our fingers crossed that there will ever be any further movement on RRT.

Less surprising is the complete lack of "Update" on RRT, just more "You too can get started on this wonderful game, but wave 1 base boxes and expansions NOW!"

Yawn.

Is it time for another timeline update yet?

I'm curious where he is getting these inquiries from? since they are not coming from Disney.

also why do I feel like if Kevin believes inquiries are being made on Rifts for various electronic avenues that Kevin is being punked by one of his fans or employees?

CTWraith wrote:
Spread the word about how much BS this Kickstarter was, and let it be at that.

No.

The only option we have, as backers, is to shed as much light on this debacle as possible. The more attention we get the higher the chance refunds or Wave 2 will actually happen. Silence is what he wants. If we're quiet then there is no pressure on him, the FTC and MI AG will look at the silence and see that no one cares and won't take action.

I, for one, will not let Kevin keep my money and I will not stay silent.

 Forar wrote:
Speaking of which, X-Com 2 is so good you guys! SO GOOD!

I have not been abused so much and enjoyed it in such a long time.
It is like a tabletop game on the PC done right with a nice strategy / economy game on the side.
I may be forced to make models to commemorate my soldiers that have survived so-far... they are exceptional at making each one a character of note.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkminstrel wrote:

CTWraith wrote:
Spread the word about how much BS this Kickstarter was, and let it be at that.

No.
The only option we have, as backers, is to shed as much light on this debacle as possible. The more attention we get the higher the chance refunds or Wave 2 will actually happen. Silence is what he wants. If we're quiet then there is no pressure on him, the FTC and MI AG will look at the silence and see that no one cares and won't take action.
I, for one, will not let Kevin keep my money and I will not stay silent.

I have seen sufficient proof that negative press is not "all good" for Kevin.
He HATES it.
Why to you think they take such care to erase all dissenting voices?
So he can see only positive "echo chamber" notes of love and affirmation.
Remember this is a guy who rigged the vote as "if you say nothing, we will count that as consent", so he has the apathy part covered as well.

Yep, file with the big three and I applaud the small claims court avenue: it is a bit more problematic for us out of country backers.

I unfortunately have little patience for those who apologize for PB to make it appear as some big error or misunderstanding: it isn't.
They do not think the law applies to them.
They feel entitled to our money with the weakest excuse that we are "investors" in a project that for 2 years they claim has not failed, but is still moving forward.

It would be a public service to see this parasite of a company close it's doors for good, threat of wave 2 being held hostage be damned.

Their appearance at Anime North, for me, is a odd one. It is NOT a gaming convention in any way shape or form though there may a bit of gaming going on. I can all but guarantee there will not a tournament. At best, like 2013, will be a table for a demo game. maybe two. I plan to avoid the area lest I get tossed out. Even if they have books I want I will order them online from nobleknight or something where it will be discounted.

On a positive note....I should get to meet Talizvar in person

 Conrad Turner wrote:
And the PBWS is a bit of a surprise.

"UPDATE Rifts® Movie

Recently, I’ve gotten some inquiries about the Rifts® Movie, optioned by the Walt Disney Company for development by Jerry Bruckheimer Films. We have not been informed of any new developments on that front, but that does not mean they aren’t working on it and keeping it under wraps. Fingers crossed. Meanwhile, we are exploring other possibilities for licenses and new market areas for Rifts® and other game lines. Time will tell."

I wonder how they feel when the boot's on the other foot? But I can also see that as an indication that WE are just supposed to keep our fingers crossed that there will ever be any further movement on RRT.

It's been that way since the turn of the millenium. About a decade ago, they got frustrated enough to tried to organize fans into starting a grass roots (lol, the irony was lost to them) letter writing campaign to Jerry Bruckheimer to get moving on the product. It failed obviously. There is one HUUUGGGGEEEE difference though between the two scenarios. With the Rifts movie, Bruckheimer/Disney are PAYING Palladium for every year they choose to sit on those rights and do nothing. We instead paid Palladium and they are instead choosing to sit on that money doing nothing for years with input from us.

 Conrad Turner wrote:
And the PBWS is a bit of a surprise.

"UPDATE Rifts® Movie

Recently, I’ve gotten some inquiries about the Rifts® Movie, optioned by the Walt Disney Company for development by Jerry Bruckheimer Films. We have not been informed of any new developments on that front, but that does not mean they aren’t working on it and keeping it under wraps. Fingers crossed. Meanwhile, we are exploring other possibilities for licenses and new market areas for Rifts® and other game lines. Time will tell."

Ah, but don't you see? The default assumption there is "No news on this for years - no reason not to assume that's AWESOME THINGS ARE HAPPENING! BUY A MOUSE PAD BEFORE THEY DOUBLE IN PRICE!"

jaymz wrote:
Their appearance at Anime North, for me, is a odd one. It is NOT a gaming convention in any way shape or form though there may a bit of gaming going on. I can all but guarantee there will not a tournament. At best, like 2013, will be a table for a demo game. maybe two. I plan to avoid the area lest I get tossed out. Even if they have books I want I will order them online from nobleknight or something where it will be discounted. On a positive note....I should get to meet Talizvar in person

I had just booked my tickets for the Saturday.

I will have the family along so I will need to take some pains of not getting kicked out as well.
I will make a point of asking about wave 2 and will probably have to further comment that nothing to say is rather childish. I am sure results may vary.
I may have to say I would just LOVE to buy some of their product but I have no evidence where my prior money is going (or where it went).

Careful what you wish for Jaymz! It would be great to meet, you are close enough we could get a game in sometime.
Though I am much more calm in person than how I behave online.
As the date gets close, we should exchange some cell numbers so we can coordinate a meet.
May have to see if we can entice Forar to show as well, who was that again that was selling fancy cakes and cookies??

Yeah, I really like this venue because the people are incredibly happy, my kids go psycho over the cosplay folks and they are happy when their character is recognized by the kids.
Reminds me, I should ask the kids if they want to dress-up and what as.

Actually, Kevin being there seems like a bad choice for him: why pay any attention to that wet blanket?

My kids are old enough that they flee on their own so get to wander and do as i wish

When did the kickstarter add the community feature? It looks like you guys have one of the top ten largest potential community of potential players/haters (depending on how Palladium conducted themselves) in the world. For a desolate continent with more sheep than people, Australia has a whole bunch of clustered communities but that may be because practically everyone is clustered on the coastal areas.

That got added a few days ago. Just sort of showed up, like the "Project We Love" thing, but vastly more interesting and less eye rolling.

Yeah, we have an advantage on the population density thing. Canada is one of the largest countries in the world, but something like 90% of our population is located within 100 miles of the US border. I've heard similar things about Australia, with the coastal stuff you mentioned.

I actually have a couple of friends working Anime North. From what they've told me, it's not really a board/war gaming thing, but there's a video game area, space dedicated to anime/movies/other fan stuff.

Haven't 'attended' many cons, so far I just work them with the booth (we'll be at Toronto ComiCon in March and Fan Expo in September), though I'm keeping the pressure up on my group to hit Gen Con 2017.