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Here's someone's Photobucket from Facebook.

The MAC is in there.

http://s13.photobucket.com/user/robotek19/library/Adepticon%20RRT?sort=3&page=1

The pictures are also MUCH clearer.

That MAC first showed up in Vegas in...2013?

Yea, I'm mostly interested in the greens.

Well, the Armored valk looks nice. Good to see my grandchildren might get a nice sculpt botched by restic, 20 years from now.

Time to move my stuff to the attic. No reason that it should take up space in my den and on my desk, any longer.

By the time they get to a point that Wave 2 could be a reality, we'd all probably have cheap enough 3D printers we could self-print those 3D renders that the China factory couldn't seem to use.

On a side note, for all of you guys who said the Robotech minis sucked to build?

A while back, a friend and I had gone in on BattleFront's "Open Fire" Flames of War starter. We finally started building, him the British / Americans, me the Germans. He built some of the models, and I had expressed some skepticism over how badly some of the Shermans came out, with these huge, visible hull gaps running down the length of model. He's an experienced modeler, so it was something of a "WTF?" moment seeing the result. Naturally, I took one of the Shermans to see if I could do any better.

It turns out that the Shermans are very poorly molded and designed. They're simply awful to build, with horrible cut lines and shrink / warp that makes it really hard to get a crisp build out of them. I got a marginally better build out of it. One side closed up pretty good, but there's still a clearly visible gap on the other side.

Still not nearly as good as the Robotech minis, though. Those, built up far cleaner, worst case being micro hairline gaps and misalignment in the bisected parts. Even my Gerwalk / Battloid arms came out OK, because you can't even see how fethed-up the fit started after you work it to fix it.

The Battlefront Shermans? They're like those fething Valkyrie arms all the fething time. If I had to assemble the Brit / American stuff, I'd be fuming.

So the next time you start bitching about how gakky the Robotech minis are, just know that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side.

Did you wait three years on those, money already having been removed from your account?

No. But I did build them, and they sucked more than the Robotech stuff.

For a retail customer building models, Robotech starter >> Flames starter.

It's worth remembering that the original Open Fire! set was Battlefront's first-ever HIPS kit, and it definitely shows. I believe it was mentioned that they tried to take a traditionally sculpted master and turn it into a sprue and bad things ensued (so PB isn't lying when they say it can be tricky).

Where the narrative diverges from PB is that Battlefront went back and re-did them with proper CAD tooling and their plastic kits ever since have been pretty straight-forward to assemble. The worst I think was, again, their first steps with CAD where the T-34 has some mildly daft attachment points, but the models otherwise assemble fine. They relatively recently re-did Open Fire! with the text "We'll start the war from here!" on the box including the improved models but dropping the mini-rulebook in favor simplified rules.

After figuring out the absolutely ridiculous amount of clamping and filling to assemble the original Shermans though, the new models are vastly superior and worth far more than the rulebook. So yes, it's dumb that they didn't offer to buy back existing stock of the horrid models so that people don't have that awful experience, but at least they were self-aware enough to realize that the quality was not there and go back and fix it.

Anyone want to take odds on PB doing that with...any of their products?

EDIT: http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4653 Assembly guide of the current Sherman V models for comparison on parts, included in the new Open Fire! (link to the artwork of the new version)

I'd believe that. It's some very bad things there, although the V-1 mega objective is not bad. The PAK-40 is stupidly fragile.

I believe we have the pre-resculpt set, because the Sherman is just awful to build. Really awful. And yeah, the tiny text in the A5 rulebook does no good, although the quickstart A5 rulebook is workable.

If we could straight up swap our "Open Fire" starter for something that doesn't suck to build and has streamlined, rules, that'd be a real treat. But we're more than halfway through the armor build, so it's probably quite a bit too late.

As for the Robotech dumpster fire gakshow, I'd like them to first deliver the Wave 2 stuff before they try to "fix" anything. Indeed, I'm afraid they're trying to preemptively "fix" ND's Wave 2 stuff, which is why it's even later.
____

OK, that is how a Sherman kit should be laid out! Unlike the things that we are building.

Yeah, Battlefront went back to fix a poorly-done product, but the key word in there that PB should be paying attention to is definitely "done"; they're not even to that lofty bar yet.

Still, the original Open Fire Shermans are definitely a good example of things going horribly wrong when the process isn't done right. Had I not bought another later-designed plastic kit at the same time I probably would have given up on the idea of starting into 15mm WW2; as you know the models are just THAT bad. However, that would have then kept me from WW3 which would have been a shame as the M1A1 I just put together nearly fell together. In fact I think I've assembled all but one of their plastic kits and they've all been easy to work with.

So companies CAN make terrible design mistakes and recover, but perhaps not so much the one in this case.

Based on my experience with the BF Sherman being easily the worst HIPS modern kit I've assembled, I plan to support PSC where possible.

I don't believe PB has the cash flow and profits that Battlefront has, and that would make a big difference if PB were halfway competent. Heck, if PB were just competent...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Based on my experience with the BF Sherman being easily the worst HIPS modern kit I've assembled, I plan to support PSC where possible.

I don't believe PB has the cash flow and profits that Battlefront has, and that would make a big difference if PB were halfway competent. Heck, if PB were just competent...

A friend of mine attending Adepticon, who has an eye for model quality, said regarding the new RRT models, " The green models are spectacular. I was really impressed. ". So it seems maybe they HAVE learnt something.

But "hatorz advocate", these are 3D prints (which most people were excited by, back when we were seeing them digitally, and the EO2013 PPP's), and still have to go through layout and molding (we saw what they did to the Phalanx for example). So I wouldn't get that excited over the final product until we see them.

And it also doesn't excuse Palladium's handling of the project, their lengthy silences, or dismissive attitudes. As Cypher mentioned on the previous page, backers can apparently write off 2016. And if someone at PB is willing to write off 8 months, it's a fair bet you can probably write off 16. They stick to unattainable schedules all the time (Heroes of Humanity is still listed as shipping "March 2016" in the latest PBWU). So, making a concession that a release date is unattainable, even that far out, means you should extend it much further. Meaning GenCon 2017 is the probable target date for the relaunch. I wonder what portion of backers/early adopters will still be giving a rat's crap at that point.

Of course, it wouldn't shock me at all if PB produced print runs of some models for sale, well before completion of Wave 2, "backers first" be damned. Maybe that might be a way to rejuvenate interest amongst buyers, but I can see it infuriating backers, even if Wave 1.5 shipping was offered (and like with FFP's Shadows of Brimstone, I don't think PB could afford shipping costs out of pocket). So the question will be, can PB turn around public perception in time. Else, they're just pissing in the wind.

Rather like they've been pissing away merrily with so many other things.

Backer confidence
Backer enthusiasm
Word of mouth sales

Need I say more?

The BF starter Shermans were known to be terribad. As stated, somewhat forgivable as a first attempt, and they had, for later plastics, gotten it more together.

As for the VF-4... In the first place it wasn't what I'm in this for. They just keep missing what their target audience is looking for, even when the target audience had told them. It's just frustrating.Why prioritize on the VF-4 or even the SDF-1 when it's the Supers, Armoured, Zentradi and MAC II that people want to see? It's not even as if the VF-4 has a base model to work off, the Supers and Armoured are the ones that had the base models.

To drive home the point further, DP9 recently posted photos of actual test pops of their starter plastics and they look ok (not great), and at the same time announced that due to corrections needed they will push back deliveries slightly. And basically got a "meh, go ahead, just sort things out and get the crack to us." I can't even imagine that PB would do that, or the roasting they would get.

Adepticon this year looks to have some good miniature gaming showcase, hopefully PB would actually walk around to see what the rest of the world is doing. But frankly my hope for that isolationist, jingoistic bunch is not very high.

While an interesting aside that there is (was?) a minis game with worse figures to build, I don't see how that's really relevant. I mean, sure, it's important to those who want to play that game, but I don't recall anyone sensible drawing a line in the sand about this being the worst set of minis ever released in the history of mankind.

Just that they're bad.

And there are presumably a lot of bad minis out there!

"Man, these tanks were gak to put together" makes me feel empathy for those who did struggle with them, and glad that the company managed to improve things with a further release.

And as noted by Morgan and others, the gakky figures are just part of the puzzle. The silence, the ever expanding delays, the passive aggressive/petulant treatment of backers ('they're mean so we're not showing anything!'), etc, all fit together to illustrate how badly they're screwing themselves and us over.

What I have left sits in the closet in a box, unlikely to be built or played with, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in them seeing things through, in making good on their promises that were so easily shared when the money was flowing during the campaign and pledge manager periods. And part of that remaining vested interest is in them actually following through. There's been some 'omg the game is dead / no it's not I totally saw someone glance at one of the boxes' discussion over the years, and the emphasis here is on *years*. How many people think that releasing Wave 1 in 2014 and Wave 2 in 2017 or 2018 is anything resembling a winning strategy?

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, I'm not looking for anyone to actually defend the practice, simply to illustrate that these issues are parts of the whole, and that does make it a bit of a shifting series of issues. Okay, fine, maybe they might actually manage to improve the piece counts, but at the cost of taking half a decade to release more models? Would X-Wing have been nearly as popular if FFG took 4 years to release wave 2?

Hearing the reports that they're still working on the piece breakdowns (as their chosen excuse) just raises the obvious question of 'at what cost?' The backers/community already know that the pieces are fiddly to build, so just fething ship something already. Those who hated building wave 1 aren't going to be won back if wave two takes 5 years to arrive, and those that are fine with the figures will eat them up regardless.

It exemplifies how they seem to continually take the wrong lessons from situations. People are mean? No information at all! (note: many were 'mean' or frustrated because of the lack of information). The parts count is a point of contention? Then we must take *years* to try to resolve it, abandoning anything resembling a sensible release schedule to trim off a few pieces! Oh, people want info again? Let's dump 20 pages of crap on them that doesn't actually inform so much as just throw people under the bus and declare ourselves philosopher kings that brought anime to America and then saved it!

It's almost impressive how dedicated they are to misreading, misjudging, and fething things up.

 Forar wrote:
How many people think that releasing Wave 1 in 2014 and Wave 2 in 2017 or 2018 is anything resembling a winning strategy?

The answer is simple: It isn't.

I can think of no system, barring one, that can sustain a development cycle where successful waves of releases were measured not in weeks or months but in years. Certainly no modern system that I can think of in current circulation has a release schedule that has new stuff arriving half a decade later. At most, a few months, usually because the company is releasing something else, then a product line gets some updates.

The only exception I can think of is Ancients/ Napoleonic gaming, for which it is a niche and one that the core gamers are so into the entire historical period that they are willing to deal with the long cycles.

The thing is, so what if PB did deliver Wave 2? From a game system perspective, RRT is a dead end system. Their first story/ campaign arc is complete -- the Macross Saga items are done, and there's little or no room for sideways expansion there. If PB wanted to keep the RRT line alive, they need to go into the Masters and Invid Invasion, and as far as I know, there has not been anything other than wistful thinking on PB's part on those things.

Given their track record, it'd take another decade for just one of the story arc to complete, and to round off the whole basic story would take what, a full 30 years from 2014? Firstly, I'm going to be retired hopefully, and I really hope I got better things to do than put together fiddly minis. Second, I'm NOT taking bets to see if PB can live that long. The product strategy is simply not in place, and this one, I actually will cheerfully say both PB and ND didn't seem to have thought the whole thing through. Without that in place, the longevity of the game system is totally suspect. Well not suspect, there isn't one.

So all I'm waiting for now is for the physical minis to show up, and then faff off to do some other stuff with my spare time. There's simply no future in this system -- I'm just waiting to collect what's owed to me is all.

The biggest hurdle PB face is that although Wave 2 may have the vaunted reduced parts count, the basic core set is still untouched and as I see it they will not have funds to revisit andcorrect that situation. So what doe sthat mean.

Basically, stop arsing about fiddling with wave 2, just get the plastic crack out to the backers. For better or worse we will just have to eat it up.

Then if they still have the heart and will to do so relaunch RTT but on a smaller scale, by which I mean model count. I would even suggest abandon 1/285 and go to 1/144 or similar and try to get a deal with existing Japanese manufacturers of RT kits to be offered as discounted prices or forming a range of small starter sets - manufacturing sorted in one deal. As for the rules revisit them and add more detail ( ie make them "advanced" wiith true hit locations etc - potentially link up with the rpg rulesets?

Lets face it as it srands RTT is a dead duck, you are not going to get many new takers outside of the KS backers who want to drop their gaming dollars on the starter sets even now at massive discounts. So a new radical approach is needed.

As backers we get what we paid for, PB gets to wash its hands of those "pesky kids" and can go back to the safe cocoon of the PB fanbois community

I think it has been wholly indisputable for some time that the game is dead, regardless of when/if Palladium ever gets around to Wave 2.

Rhetorical questioning aside, I don't disagree.

Which raises the further question of what incentive there is for PB to continue the charade?

Avoid backers pursuing litigation? Get the AG/FTC off their backs? Yeah, but if they can make due with 'progress' in the form of five new prototypes a year they can do this for another half decade without breaking a sweat.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Here's someone's Photobucket from Facebook.

The MAC is in there.

http://s13.photobucket.com/user/robotek19/library/Adepticon%20RRT?sort=3&page=1

The pictures are also MUCH clearer.

Hey, on that monster, is it my imagination or is one of the barrels drooping, and looks like it's made from a different material?

Overall, this does look like an attempt to shut up AG/BBB complaints, but is more lateral movement than forward, since we know the 3D renders these were made from can't be used by the factory to produce similar HIPS models.

Forar wrote:Which raises the further question of what incentive there is for PB to continue the charade?

My feel is yeah, pretty much. My opinion is that PB really does want to finish off the KS, but it's approaching the work as though it's one of their PB books. Which means plenty of promises and eventually a delivery. Eventually.

The other side of the coin is that they face harsher penalties if they just declare a no-show. The legalities have more or less caught up with fraudulent crowd-funding and I think certain circles are just looking for something to scapegoat. Having a high-profile KS, a niche company that nobody would really miss, and a big sum of money is a big target board. Stringing things along creates a moving target, harder to hit.

Stormonu wrote:Hey, on that monster, is it my imagination or is one of the barrels drooping, and looks like it's made from a different material?

Most likely warpage of the barrel. That's quite normal on resins and plastics -- I've even seen a warped barrel on a GW plastic kit, so it does happen.

 Stormonu wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Here's someone's Photobucket from Facebook.

The MAC is in there.

http://s13.photobucket.com/user/robotek19/library/Adepticon%20RRT?sort=3&page=1

The pictures are also MUCH clearer.

Hey, on that monster, is it my imagination or is one of the barrels drooping, and looks like it's made from a different material?

Oh, it's definitely not your imagination. Personally, if I was displaying these, I wouldn't show it as is. I'm not sure if it's warping as Lynx suggests, or if it's just poorly attached at the base of the barrel. Using the line tool in paint, it seems like the barrel itself is straight, from tip to base. And there's a substantial crack just behind the three grooves where the barrel widens.

But there's definitely something for putting your best foot forward. Same with the still horribly bisected Gnerl. If you're going to have these on display, get a real modeller to assemble, fill, and paint, to show the best possible outcome. On a side note, have they showed the open cockpit Miriya before? I don't recall seeing it. I do shudder to think how many parts that'd be though.

Overall, this does look like an attempt to shut up AG/BBB complaints, but is more lateral movement than forward, since we know the 3D renders these were made from can't be used by the factory to produce similar HIPS models.

Yup. And as you suggest, there's no real evidence that this is progress. It's definitely nice to see physical prints of the otherwise unseen mecha (<- Ha! Battletech joke!), but there's nothing to say this isn't just the physical model equivalent of Palladium printing off 4 pages of a 30 page document they've been sitting on for over a year. We've been told that Ninja Division handed over the last of the digital sculpts early last year, or late the year before. Have they been modified since, or is this just PB finally getting around to having them made, in an attempt to "show progress".

As for why they'd go through this charade, Lynx has the right of it. *IF* the information is true that PB not only don't have the funds to complete, but the financial cupboard on that front is literally bare (ie, there's a difference between needing $600K and having $450K, and needing $600K and having $0), then on top of any fines levied, just refunding the backers would bankrupt them. And the cost to complete is significantly less than the cost to refund.

And people will go to extraordinary lengths to keep their jobs, especially jobs they enjoy. Kevin himself doesn't appear to be the kind of man that'd take admitting failure lightly, especially with his legacy at stake. Stringing things along, in hope of a miracle, is probably the best they can hope for at this point, *IF* that's the case. So staving off the wolves is the go-to move. And the simplest means of doing that is showing something that could be construed as "new work".

Morgan Vening wrote:

As for why they'd go through this charade, Lynx has the right of it. *IF* the information is true that PB not only don't have the funds to complete, but the financial cupboard on that front is literally bare (ie, there's a difference between needing $600K and having $450K, and needing $600K and having $0), then on top of any fines levied, just refunding the backers would bankrupt them. And the cost to complete is significantly less than the cost to refund.

Assuming that our assumptions are true -- PB has insufficient funds to pay for Wave 2 (assumption: because they over-committed on Wave 1), what can PB do?

1. The logical "out" is to admit this to the backers and propose either to do the rest as a resin upgrade: Super and Armoured as resin upgrades, MAC as resin, potentially Zentradi stuff still in plastic,

Pros: Things can move on and the KS can deliver, albeit in a different form from what was originally promised. In general, I find Americans to be forgiving when honesty is utilized.

Cons: Let's be honest here, PB will get roasted and sued -- they burnt that goodwill a long time back. And the pre-requisite here is that Kevin will swallow his pride and admit a mistake. Help me out here, I can't even remember a single instance where he admitted to a mistake before.

Probability: Slim to none.

=====

2. The next logical "out" is to wait till sales numbers provide enough money to proceed, or for funding to otherwise appear.

Pros: Well they do have stock and it's just a matter of waiting.. and if PB is going to plow some book money to make the shortfall it might be faster.

Cons: We might have to wait a while. As neutral as we can get, RRT sales are pretty much tanked in the distributor and retail level. People in those chains would be leery of taking on more product. Direct sales might help but... odds are not good.

Probability: Better than slim to none, but still fairly low

Two addendum: The first is, I'm not sure why they won't take out a loan to get things going again. Are things so bad there that no loans are available?

Two.. ah I'll just spin it off as another option.

=====

3. Start another Crowdfunding! Push RRT: Southern Cross or (more likely) RRT: Invid Invasion/ Sentinels. Use the money to get Wave 2 AND the new RRT done!

Pros: Actually RRT: Sentinels does sound interesting...

Cons: ... but nobody is going to fall for that one. The sickening part is that while I do get the sense that Kevin is wary of (official) crowdfunding now, he may still be convinced it's a great idea to proceed on this.

Probability: I hate to say this, but ehh... it does sound like something PB would do.

=====

4. Just keep stalling, until people gives up.

Pros: Effort not too much, not much cost.

Cons: Those BBB and lawyer letters are starting to pile, eventually there's going to be a breach.

Probability: eh, it's already happening.

=====

Overall, it just looks like PB went with 4, but let's be a bit honest here: they are spending way more effort than needed for a stalling tactics. They actually went to all the trouble to get an SDF-1 done up and assembled for display at a con! You and I know they could have just fibbed something easier to get by.

I think PB is just stalling till funds show up. Either through RRT sales, or if/ when they decide to push book funds into this (or a loan). My concern -- and a great sign that the shark has jumped -- is if they go and do another crowd-funding for RRT: Sentinels or Southern Cross. That'd really be the one that torps them good.

 Lynx7725 wrote:

Stormonu wrote:Hey, on that monster, is it my imagination or is one of the barrels drooping, and looks like it's made from a different material?

Most likely warpage of the barrel. That's quite normal on resins and plastics -- I've even seen a warped barrel on a GW plastic kit, so it does happen.

Not that normal these days. The material itself is quite stable, but has to be processed correctly. GW having warped barrels is something that I would expect from them these days. It's down to pressurising your converter too much. GW ask their converter how much it'll cost to produce the frames for their latest iteration of SM toy soldiers. Converter says $0.25/shot, GW says too expensive, make it $0.22, maybe gets haggled up to $0.23. Converter can't make enough money at that, so re-optimises the process to speed it up. Process is now on a knife-edge, probably runs OK for an hour or more, but then the cooling water itself gets hot in a closed-loop system. The mould doesn't cool enough, the plastic is still warm when it comes out of the mould, and twists or warps as it's ejected or when it hits the ground.

People complain that their model is damaged, replacements issued, or the line gets cancelled due to poor sales.

The speeds at which plastic can be formed are much better understood these days than in the 80's. [where sink marks and ejector pin marks were much more common, but I can't recall ever getting a twisted or stretched aerial on a mk1 Rhino.

If the converter isn't over-padding the cost in the first place, and knows what they are doing - especially the production staff - then these things are completely removable.

I am not trying to belittle the efforts here at all but I think more thought was put into all these scenarios than what PB is contemplating now I am sure.

Conrad Turner wrote:Not that normal these days. The material itself is quite stable, but has to be processed correctly.

Thanks for the info, it's always good to know a bit more.

Having said that, I used GW as an example as GW tends not to have that particular problem -- most of their stuff comes out fine, but that's also because they are quite smart as to not put long, spindly objects in their sprue. The few times they did, the odds of warping becomes much higher.

Talizvar wrote:I am not trying to belittle the efforts here at all but I think more thought was put into all these scenarios than what PB is contemplating now I am sure.

Heh yeah the irony is there. Thing is, PB isn't totally stupid. They just have a utterly warped perspective. I'm fairly sure they thought about these at some point, the problem is that their perspective is so utterly alien that they don't behave rationally.

 Lynx7725 wrote:

Assuming that our assumptions are true -- PB has insufficient funds to pay for Wave 2 (assumption: because they over-committed on Wave 1), what can PB do?

1. The logical "out" is to admit this to the backers and propose either to do the rest as a resin upgrade: Super and Armoured as resin upgrades, MAC as resin, potentially Zentradi stuff still in plastic,

Pros: Things can move on and the KS can deliver, albeit in a different form from what was originally promised. In general, I find Americans to be forgiving when honesty is utilized.

Cons: Let's be honest here, PB will get roasted and sued -- they burnt that goodwill a long time back. And the pre-requisite here is that Kevin will swallow his pride and admit a mistake. Help me out here, I can't even remember a single instance where he admitted to a mistake before.

Probability: Slim to none.

PB blew their chance to be honest a long time ago, if they try to be honest now it will ruin them entirely, what few fan friends they have left will shun them.

 Lynx7725 wrote:
=====

2. The next logical "out" is to wait till sales numbers provide enough money to proceed, or for funding to otherwise appear.

Pros: Well they do have stock and it's just a matter of waiting.. and if PB is going to plow some book money to make the shortfall it might be faster.

Cons: We might have to wait a while. As neutral as we can get, RRT sales are pretty much tanked in the distributor and retail level. People in those chains would be leery of taking on more product. Direct sales might help but... odds are not good.

Probability: Better than slim to none, but still fairly low

Two addendum: The first is, I'm not sure why they won't take out a loan to get things going again. Are things so bad there that no loans are available?

Two.. ah I'll just spin it off as another option.

PB has nothing set aside and any sales they have are barely keeping the company afloat, the fact they are even reducing their presence at conventions is testament to that, pretty soon PB will be filing for Bankruptcy protection, sadly they will not get as much as they hope to get, as to a loan, they are trying to get loans from people, banks will not touch them due to lack of collateral.

 Lynx7725 wrote:
=====

3. Start another Crowdfunding! Push RRT: Southern Cross or (more likely) RRT: Invid Invasion/ Sentinels. Use the money to get Wave 2 AND the new RRT done!

Pros: Actually RRT: Sentinels does sound interesting...

Cons: ... but nobody is going to fall for that one. The sickening part is that while I do get the sense that Kevin is wary of (official) crowdfunding now, he may still be convinced it's a great idea to proceed on this.

Probability: I hate to say this, but ehh... it does sound like something PB would do.

all PB will get from another round of crowdfunding is more headaches and a whole slew of people warning others away.

 Lynx7725 wrote:
=====

4. Just keep stalling, until people gives up.

Pros: Effort not too much, not much cost.

Cons: Those BBB and lawyer letters are starting to pile, eventually there's going to be a breach.

Probability: eh, it's already happening.

Happening already

 Lynx7725 wrote:
=====

Overall, it just looks like PB went with 4, but let's be a bit honest here: they are spending way more effort than needed for a stalling tactics. They actually went to all the trouble to get an SDF-1 done up and assembled for display at a con! You and I know they could have just fibbed something easier to get by.

I think PB is just stalling till funds show up. Either through RRT sales, or if/ when they decide to push book funds into this (or a loan). My concern -- and a great sign that the shark has jumped -- is if they go and do another crowd-funding for RRT: Sentinels or Southern Cross. That'd really be the one that torps them good.

PB is hoping to get funds to keep their lights on.

In otherwords, some startup is trying to sell "Battloid" robots on Kickstarter.
http://www.gamewire.belloflostsouls.net/invasion-kickstarter-updates-presenting-battleloid/

I'm pretty fething sure that's an outright trademark / copyright issue that confuses with the Robotech property.

Maybe somebody can sic Harmony Gold on them.

Me, I'm just going to get out my popcorn.