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 Nesbet wrote:
if all of your beliefs are aligned, why haven't the US backers aligned yet to sue PB? "Refunds or wave two or nothing!" or something alike?

Because one of us is from Canada, the other from the UK? Neither of us can influence what US backers do.

And I'm from Chile xD
So. Yeah, that's why I was asking about US backers

 Nesbet wrote:
if all of your beliefs are aligned, why haven't the US backers aligned yet to sue PB? "Refunds or wave two or nothing!" or something alike?

Lawsuits cost money, especially for individuals and class actions will result in a good percentage going to the lawyers. It would cost a single person more money to sue than what they would recover.

We can't all be Rick with a friend who will do it for free, only to be turned away with nothing to show for it in the end.

So, in game what is the "best' all-around Destroid to use for a balanced list?

 Easy E wrote:
So, in game what is the "best' all-around Destroid to use for a balanced list?

I am torn between the Phalanx or the Tomahawk.

Tomahawk is a great all-rounder since it has a bunch of missiles and can split-fire it's main guns and is reasonably tough.
Phalanx has a horde of missiles good for anti-missile or hitting a bunch of targets at range.

Tomahawk I am leaning towards.

 n815e wrote:

 Nesbet wrote:
if all of your beliefs are aligned, why haven't the US backers aligned yet to sue PB? "Refunds or wave two or nothing!" or something alike?

Lawsuits cost money, especially for individuals and class actions will result in a good percentage going to the lawyers. It would cost a single person more money to sue than what they would recover.

We can't all be Rick with a friend who will do it for free, only to be turned away with nothing to show for it in the end.

I don't know. I think anyone can have a friend who turns out not to actually do it. All of us can, even!

 Nesbet wrote:
if all of your beliefs are aligned, why haven't the US backers aligned yet to sue PB? "Refunds or wave two or nothing!" or something alike?

Correction: "Refunds or wave two or close your doors forever!"... accept no substitutes!
Yes, I am a bitter, vengeful individual... petty, well, remains to be seen.

I'll replace the OR's in that statement Talizvar with an AND at this point.

Yes, I'm very bitter and petty at this point.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
So, in game what is the "best' all-around Destroid to use for a balanced list?

I am torn between the Phalanx or the Tomahawk.

Tomahawk is a great all-rounder since it has a bunch of missiles and can split-fire it's main guns and is reasonably tough.
Phalanx has a horde of missiles good for anti-missile or hitting a bunch of targets at range.

Tomahawk I am leaning towards.

Phalanx does not have Anti-Missile.....they are Heavy/Long Range Missiles.....only mini and short range missiles have Anti-Missile.

Merijeek wrote:

 n815e wrote:

 Nesbet wrote:
if all of your beliefs are aligned, why haven't the US backers aligned yet to sue PB? "Refunds or wave two or nothing!" or something alike?

Lawsuits cost money, especially for individuals and class actions will result in a good percentage going to the lawyers. It would cost a single person more money to sue than what they would recover.

We can't all be Rick with a friend who will do it for free, only to be turned away with nothing to show for it in the end.

I don't know. I think anyone can have a friend who turns out not to actually do it. All of us can, even!

Well, I've been a little demotivated with Warmachine lately what with the whole new edition thing, so that gave me time to spend on some non-Warmahordes models for a change. After seeing people posting actual pictures in this thread, I was motivated to finally try to put a Veritech together.

But before I post photos, let me get my excuses in: I missed the original kickstarter by a month or two, but picked up the starter kit when it was heavily discounted on some online website. I never really cared much about the game or, well, anything except the Veritech models, which I just wanted for painting and conversions. So I'm not trying to assemble an army here, just a small number of individual models for display.





This first piece was test; there were some conversion ideas I wanted to try out, but I didn't mess with the pose for this one. Basically, I cut off the original plastic canopy section and did my best to sculpt a reasonable-looking cockpit with pilot. I created a new cockpit by essentially creating mold out of greenstuff and using it so press a small piece of clear plastic from a blister pack into shape after warming it with a heat gun (I have photos of the process and will post them on my blog at some point in the future). I also installed small magnets in the wings and missiles (which was completely pointless because I have no need to swap the missiles around, I just did it as a test).

The arms aren't actually glued on yet, but that's basically how I'm planning to pose them. I'm still waiting on some basing materials in the mail before I actually glue it down and start painting. This one will probably end up painted as either Max, Miriya, or Roy; I'm planning to model a Veritech in a different mode for each, but I haven't decided who gets which mode yet.


I concur that putting together the arms and legs (and to a lesser extent the body) from separate halves was a pain, and I ended up needing to spend a fair bit of time on gap filling. I'd hate to have to do this en masse, so even if I was curious about the game at one point I've pretty much given up on that idea now. On the other hand I have some conversion ideas in mind where the split parts might actually be an advantage, so that's something I guess. It would have been nice if the arms and legs had been more pose-able though, I'm sure I'm going to have some trouble down the road trying to vary up the poses.

Anyway, feedback and suggestions are welcome.

nice work, but more work then I'll be putting in these models.

Nice idea for a clear canopy, I will have to try it out

Cool! Nice idea with the canopy! It will look great painted!

Keep up the good work!

Awesome work, surprised you didn't leave the canopy open to better show off the detail.

Care to post a shot of the wing & missiles work? I've been thinking about magnetizing mine, but I'm scared I'd destroy the wings trying to make room for the magnets - and I have no idea how the magnet on the missile side would end up.

That clear canopy looks fantastic.

 Stormonu wrote:
Awesome work, surprised you didn't leave the canopy open to better show off the detail.

Care to post a shot of the wing & missiles work? I've been thinking about magnetizing mine, but I'm scared I'd destroy the wings trying to make room for the magnets - and I have no idea how the magnet on the missile side would end up.

he drilled holes thru the wings and then greenstuffed them after super gluing them I assume, I had thought about doing that then figured while the finished results would look good there would be issues down the line.

Asterios wrote:nice work, but more work then I'll be putting in these models.

I don't blame you! I'm basically insane.

Nesbet wrote:Cool! Nice idea with the canopy! It will look great painted!

Keep up the good work!

Thanks!

Stormonu wrote:Awesome work, surprised you didn't leave the canopy open to better show off the detail.

I'm hoping that a layer of gloss varnish will clear up the plastic enough that it looks good. Although the interior isn't exactly all that detailed, so maybe it's not so bad if it doesn't come through too clearly...

Stormonu wrote:Care to post a shot of the wing & missiles work? I've been thinking about magnetizing mine, but I'm scared I'd destroy the wings trying to make room for the magnets - and I have no idea how the magnet on the missile side would end up.

Sure. It's just like Asterios said, I drilled 2mm holes through the wings (using the existing detail to make sure I was drilling in the same position on each wing), and glued a 2mm x 1mm disc magnet in the middle of the wing. I then applied greenstuff over on each side, flattened it down, and sculpted continuations of the existing detail lines. I actually used sandpaper to smooth it all down once it was completely set, but that's probably not necessary, it's just something I like to do because I find it works for me. The wings were thick enough that I could sculpt the detail back on both sides, though you probably don't need to on the bottom. I was a little worried about losing structural strength in the wing, but it feels robust enough to me - especially seeing as it's mainly a display model.



I glued the missiles together, then cut down the tab as I wanted them to be a bit more flush-fit (and also the magnets I was using were too big to fit in the tab, but I probably could have worked around that but adding more material before drilling if I wanted to). I then drilled another 2mm hole for another 2mm x 1mm disc magnet. I did of course have to be careful to make sure I didn't go too far; there's not that much room for error, but there is a little bit, so if you work slowly it will be fine (just make sure you don't test the depth by pushing the magnet itself into the hole, as even if it doesn't go all the way in you might not be able to get it back out without damaging the piece). There's little chance of the missiles falling off unless the model is shaken quite hard, but as there's nothing aligning them you have to align them manually every time you attach them, and they are almost certain to get knocked out of alignment through casual handling. I'm considering using two 1mm x 1mm magnets instead so the missiles always point the right way, but of course that would halve the strength of the magnetic bond. Perhaps a couple of 2mm x 1mm rod magnets? If you align them along the wing rather than perpendicular then you won't need to re-sculpt detail so you could use 2mm thick magnets instead of 1mm? Something to experiment with perhaps.

Forar wrote:That clear canopy looks fantastic.

wilycoyote wrote:Nice idea for a clear canopy, I will have to try it out

Thanks! Well, if you're interested, here's some photos of the process:



Thanks for all the feeback guys!

Soul Samurai wrote:

I glued the missiles together, then cut down the tab as I wanted them to be a bit more flush-fit (and also the magnets I was using were too big to fit in the tab, but I probably could have worked around that but adding more material before drilling if I wanted to). I then drilled another 2mm hole for another 2mm x 1mm disc magnet. I did of course have to be careful to make sure I didn't go too far; there's not that much room for error, but there is a little bit, so if you work slowly it will be fine (just make sure you don't test the depth by pushing the magnet itself into the hole, as even if it doesn't go all the way in you might not be able to get it back out without damaging the piece). There's little chance of the missiles falling off unless the model is shaken quite hard, but as there's nothing aligning them you have to align them manually every time you attach them, and they are almost certain to get knocked out of alignment through casual handling. I'm considering using two 1mm x 1mm magnets instead so the missiles always point the right way, but of course that would halve the strength of the magnetic bond. Perhaps a couple of 2mm x 1mm rod magnets? If you align them along the wing rather than perpendicular then you won't need to re-sculpt detail so you could use 2mm thick magnets instead of 1mm? Something to experiment with perhaps.

Actually I had thought of using a magnetic strip or tape on the missiles to offset the magnet on the wings drop.

So... based on the last PBWU (the next one should be out tomorrow or Friday), it doesn't look like there'll be an official Palladium presence at Origins this weekend.

A quick perusal of the event list has 5 RPG's (Rifts*3, Dead Reign, Hollow Earth), but no mention of it by PB. So it's neither sponsored or supported by KevCo, and seems to be a fan doing it completely on his own.

Is this going to be another "We didn't know a convention was happening!" thing like the 2014 Adepticon debacle? I'm not a USAian, but being in the hobby, I know there are at least four significant gaming conventions in the US. GenCon, DragonCon, Origins and Adepticon.

Now I can kind of understand skipping DragonCon, as it's 700miles away, and as a retailer, lugging stuff that far can be cumbersome. But Origins is only 200 miles, and they went 300 miles to Adepticon, and about the same to Anime North.

You'ld think they'd make an appearance, assuming the cons aren't a money sink (in which case, why attend them?). I don't think Kevin takes his job seriously.

Just looking around at the vendor documents for Origins, the cost for a single booth would cost them about $1,000 for a 10X10 area. They'd have to do some good sales to make that money back, and seeing their setup from previous Cons, it looks like they prefer a 2-booth sized area (so close to $2,000 just for the booth).

My guess is the total cost (fuel, booth, badges, hotel, staff salary, load/unload fees) is out of their comfort range for getting enough sales to cover costs. On top of that, looks like you have to register pretty early to have a chance at getting booth space, and we all know how good PB is when it comes to timeliness...

Soul Samurai wrote:



This first piece was test; there were some conversion ideas I wanted to try out, but I didn't mess with the pose for this one. Basically, I cut off the original plastic canopy section and did my best to sculpt a reasonable-looking cockpit with pilot. I created a new cockpit by essentially creating mold out of greenstuff and using it so press a small piece of clear plastic from a blister pack into shape after warming it with a heat gun (I have photos of the process and will post them on my blog at some point in the future)..

Very nicely done. Was that your own idea or something you've seen done elsewhere like historicals? Either way, it looks great.

 warboss wrote:
Very nicely done. Was that your own idea or something you've seen done elsewhere like historicals? Either way, it looks great.

I've seen some very nice 40K vehicles with painted cockpits; I was just wondering if it could be done at this scale, and I found someone that had done it using clear resin: http://robotechrpgtactics.boards.net/post/2404/thread. Before messing about with resin (for some reason I'm scared of the stuff) I wanted to see if I could find an easier way, and I remembered reading about people shaping clear plastic from blister packs for various effects, so I thought I'd give that a try.

Cool pics Soul Samurai, keep your production going!

On a different topic... Could all of you tell me about your experiences with shapeways? I'm considering buying some models, but I'm afraid them can get broken while flying from the U.S. to Chile :/

How well do they package the items? A bag? An envelope? Box? with foam? Air bubbles?

What about the materials? How much different are Frosted Ultra Detail compared with White Strong & Flexible?? I think frosted will break in the flight >__<

They're bagged in ziplocks, and if I remember correctly, they are further packed in bubblewrap. I have not had anything broken in shipping, but I am in the US.

I would also suggest for material to AVOID White strong and flexible - it's a fiberous material, like fiberglass or dried toothpaste. Paint tends to bleed into the surrounding material when painting, especially washes or inks. Ultra frosted is actually much more durable and paints up much better - even without priming.

I'm told an ultrasonic cleaner is good for cleaning up stuff from shapeways, but I don't trust the white strong & flexible to put in such a bath - it *looks* like it would fall apart.

I would also say AVOID white/strong/flexible. I even found FUD to be underwhelming (like average board game miniatures or prepainted mini sculpt detail quality) when I made and ordered a custom fig a few years ago. Even after exaggerating certain features in the 3d file, it didn't carry over to the final model well and facial features melded into a wavy series of lumps. Additionally, one half the mini has a "fuzzyiness" to the texture that was apparantly from the orientation in the matrix. They're supposed to put low detail or not seen parts facing iirc the bottom of the matrix but on my little 25mm model was bisected in half with a fuzzyness. They now have Frosted extreme detail and if you can afford it then I say go for that instead. At the size we're talking about (robotech models), things like panel lines will be very shallow if they appear at all at FUD.

They package the models very well both in layers of foam in a sturdy box so barring someone stepping or driving over the box the trip to you shouldn't be an issue. Just like with resin models though, some thin parts with very small attachments to sprues might break off or simply break regardless. For instance, I had several weapons guns moulded onto a faux base oriented vertically that broke off probably when they were wrapping it in foam. Luckily, the point of breakage was the sprue attachment point and not the weapon itself.

Well, I bought from Shapeways and sometimes the "White, Strong and Flexible" is all that is offered.


This shows rather well the quality of what you get.
SW AT-AT, 1/258 scale, the 10 cent dime there is 18mm diameter (0.71 inches).
It needs a dusting with a good brush since they are received a bit powdery..
I have a rotary buffing pad that worked perfectly to remove the roughness / waviness from the layers without destroying the detail.
I suggest sealing it, since it is a model made out of tiny welded plastic beads = sponge.
Many suggest using the clear floor polish like "Future" (It really is just acrylic, you could hit it with matt medium), watered down white glue may perform the same job and add more structure.
Then it would be safe to prime normally, I was uncertain if thinners could melt the plastic and due to 3d printing there was no extra bits to practice on.

For tiny detail look at the AT-ST:


Forgive my pictures, I had not found my "good" camera till much later.

Packaging is a fairly thick cardboard box, lots of tape, zip-locks, foam peanuts and the larger blister bubble wrap.
I have zero issue with their packaging methods.

Shipping was faster than their estimated date.

I agree going to the better plastics give better detail but add a fair bit of cost.
I have no issue with the white plastic, more for the modeler to ease-off on everything to scale and beef-up the tiny spindly bits like the AT-ST lower legs.

In the end, it sure beats building something from scratch, anything less than perfect you can add to the model and the slight grain gives fantastic "tooth" for green stuff.

<edit> I suppose I should demonstrate that preparation and good painting forgives all model feature sins?

Soul Samurai wrote:
Well, I've been a little demotivated with Warmachine lately what with the whole new edition thing, so that gave me time to spend on some non-Warmahordes models for a change. After seeing people posting actual pictures in this thread, I was motivated to finally try to put a Veritech together.

But before I post photos, let me get my excuses in: I missed the original kickstarter by a month or two, but picked up the starter kit when it was heavily discounted on some online website. I never really cared much about the game or, well, anything except the Veritech models, which I just wanted for painting and conversions. So I'm not trying to assemble an army here, just a small number of individual models for display.





This first piece was test; there were some conversion ideas I wanted to try out, but I didn't mess with the pose for this one. Basically, I cut off the original plastic canopy section and did my best to sculpt a reasonable-looking cockpit with pilot. I created a new cockpit by essentially creating mold out of greenstuff and using it so press a small piece of clear plastic from a blister pack into shape after warming it with a heat gun (I have photos of the process and will post them on my blog at some point in the future). I also installed small magnets in the wings and missiles (which was completely pointless because I have no need to swap the missiles around, I just did it as a test).

The arms aren't actually glued on yet, but that's basically how I'm planning to pose them. I'm still waiting on some basing materials in the mail before I actually glue it down and start painting. This one will probably end up painted as either Max, Miriya, or Roy; I'm planning to model a Veritech in a different mode for each, but I haven't decided who gets which mode yet.


I concur that putting together the arms and legs (and to a lesser extent the body) from separate halves was a pain, and I ended up needing to spend a fair bit of time on gap filling. I'd hate to have to do this en masse, so even if I was curious about the game at one point I've pretty much given up on that idea now. On the other hand I have some conversion ideas in mind where the split parts might actually be an advantage, so that's something I guess. It would have been nice if the arms and legs had been more pose-able though, I'm sure I'm going to have some trouble down the road trying to vary up the poses.

Anyway, feedback and suggestions are welcome.

You could leave the canopy off and make it Rick's Valkyrie after the bombardment of Earth, at the Grand Cannon in Alaska after he rescues Lisa.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
You could leave the canopy off and make it Rick's Valkyrie after the bombardment of Earth, at the Grand Cannon in Alaska after he rescues Lisa.

That's a really good idea. I admit I don't remember that episode though, all I remember is Rick saving Minmay right at the start of the invasion.

Great. Thanks for the images Talizvar!

The Gnerl is avaliable on Frosted Ultra Detail: Matte translucent plastic and the recently discovered (at least for me) Nosjaedul-Ger only avaliable on White Strong & Flexible: White nylon plastic.