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 Talizvar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
... problem is they offer no other avenue of contact between backers and with several backers trying to organize a lawsuit against PB and with the KS forums being the only means of contact offered by KS, by banning such people KS is doing what is called Tortious interference (very loosely but still applicable) which is against the law, so KS has essentially made a boo boo, one that will require them to do one of two things, unban people or those imply such violations, or offer another avenue for backers to contact each other.

That day I got banned I thought I had a eureka moment when I realized that to contact the people within a given KS project was near impossible except through the forums and it was rather "cleverly" done.
As soon as I said anything around that line it was erase and ban.
So that seems to have hit a nerve over there.
If it as illegal thing to do... that is more interesting.
I figured Kickstarter really did not care but now I have experience a more active censoring which has cast serious doubt on me continuing with Kickstarter.
If the creator has his act together and means well, you would have no issues.
If there are problems and you are to try to take matters up with the creator: KS only wants you to do it individually not as a class action suit.

Weird. Ignorance is bliss until you find out a group is more "evil" than you thought.

yeah me thinks KS realized they are more responsible then they would like, like you said the bannings begin all of suddenly after a group organized Lawsuit was forming. not too mention could you imagine how this would look if a large class action lawsuit started against a project of this magnitude and what this game brought in and that KickStarter loves? the repercussions could pretty much kill KS and then some

That wouldn't be the worst thing. KS pulled 6 figures cash from RRT, so they owe something.

 Talizvar wrote:
Thanks guys.
Can always count on you lot to crank my paranoia up to 100.
This is something my friends would do, don't be going all sentimental on me now.

Quick! A rush on Shapeways!!!

No problems, I enjoy making people paranoid.

Don't look now, but NMI is coming to take you away HaHa, he's coming to take you away HeeHee, Haha, HoHo, to a place where everthings always fine and you'll be happy to see those nice young people in their pretty white coats and he's coming to take you away HaHaAAAAA!

 Nesbet wrote:
LOL

Seriously guys... refunds? Kevin sending you moar wave 1 boxes? Even considering paying shipping for moar starter sets you do not want? lolmao...

The only thing I would accept as a possible compensation is to get all the 3D models of the wave 2 miniatures, to print them by myself and erase PB from my life, once and for all.

I feel I was explicitly clear about these being hypothetical considerations that were A) imperfect and B) probably wouldn't fly anyway.

Not to get too defensive, but surely a little musing possible exit strategies PB might have was more interesting than another 20 pages of "man, PB sucks." "True that."

Kudos to those dedicated enough to make their own wave 2, but I already paid for that stuff. Paying for it again, be it Palladium or another company, holds little appeal no matter how we cut it.

If I was going to get an FPA, I'd just go to an existing mini at this point. And while on the matter, if I'm not mistaken the current recasting program going on involved doing exactly that; paying PB more money. However we slice it about saving money making copies, the starting point was hooking them up with more cash. LOL indeed.

I think it's reasonable for the backers to look at 2 years of stagnation and ponder potential alternatives, even if implausible or impossible. Wave 2 itself seems impossible, so wondering what else they might not do for us is pretty much par for the course.

 Forar wrote:
Kudos to those dedicated enough to make their own wave 2, but I already paid for that stuff. Paying for it again, be it Palladium or another company, holds little appeal no matter how we cut it.

Agreed... doubly so when I've got almost zero utility out of the half of my rewards that I did receive despite my efforts (one demo game with one unit each). I'll cheer on the folks that want to risk doubling down on this crappy hand we've been dealt but I won't be joining them in putting more chips on the table. You gotta know when to hold'em... know when to fold'em... know when to walk away...

That was kind of the point I was going for in my previous post..

I don't foresee Palladium books doing anything .. No wave 2.. No refund..

They are a very small company living in the 80's that got a boat load of money from KS backers..

They didn't want to share with Ninja division and wanted to take a lions share of the money..

But having no clue what they were getting into with miniatures .. the just saw $$$$$$$

At least if we could get already produced product out of them.. that is something..

Lawsuits take years... not months.. and Kevin's track record he could tie it up forever and get nothing out of it..

Maybe him filing for bankruptcy is about it..

Which is the other side of it. Be it as a 'public service' to avoid them doing the same thing again, or for vengeance, or whatever the reasoning, some people would be happy seeing Palladium shutter their doors.

I can't say that stance (on the revenge side) has ever held strong appeal, but if the ongoing lawsuit page pulled it off, I wouldn't shed any tears either.

But I am onboard with there being consequences for ones actions (or inaction), and them taking a big pile of cash and stringing people along for over 3 years now puts them further on the side of "feth those guys".

In my mind, the ideal solution is to get my stuff.

Based on what James and NMI have said, there is no money.

I can forgive honest mistakes, but buying up non-ks stock was a greedy gamble, quite literally a Tony Reidy-esque ponzi scheme and there should be consequences.

NMI confirmed there is no money? Confirming Kevin has been deliberately misleading backers all this time?
But, Kevin doesn't lie!

 n815e wrote:
In my mind, the ideal solution is to get my stuff.

Based on what James and NMI have said, there is no money.

I can forgive honest mistakes, but buying up non-ks stock was a greedy gamble, quite literally a Tony Reidy-esque ponzi scheme and there should be consequences.

Who is James? Also, can you take a screenshot of the comments and post them in the thread here or provide a link so we can update the first post?

Yes, please!

That's quite the bombshell there...

It would take a lot of digging. On one of the FB groups, around a month or so ago, someone was accusing PB of spending all the money on non-RRT products and NMI, trying to defend PB, wrote that it was all spent on RRT products.

Ah!

Are you sure he wasn't stumbling more towards "All the KS money spent [so far] has been spent on RRT" vs. "All the KS money has been spent [and there's nothing left]!"?

Also "James" is probably "Jaymz", as found on the Kickstarter Comments (among other places).

Forgive my ignorance... but what is NMI?

 n815e wrote:
It would take a lot of digging. On one of the FB groups, around a month or so ago, someone was accusing PB of spending all the money on non-RRT products and NMI, trying to defend PB, wrote that it was all spent on RRT products.

Ah, that's not the same thing then. He's plopped out the all money spent was spent on robotech line in the past. That doesn't mean he said all the money was spent. It's a perfectly slimey distinction (since it's not the same thing as spending it on the robotech REWARDS like they were supposed to) but you can't extrapolate it and then attribute that extrapolation to someone else.

edit: thanks for posting the pic with the quote above as it is good to have (not sure if you can delete your old posts on facebook or not). Since that was likely in response to an accusation about kevin spending it on something blatantly not robotech (like Rifts RPGs or worse), I don't see that as a tacit admission of the money being gone. YMMV but it's easy to just phrase something badly and have folks infer more than intended. Don't get me wrong.. I do believe that the money is gone and likely was MISPENT on dead stock for retail in a gamble by Palladium but that's not the smoking gun as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=859%3Apalladium-booksr-weekly-update-august-12-2016&catid=52%3Aweekly-updates&Itemid=183

In other news, Palladium announced a 28mm Rifts miniatures boardgame.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 n815e wrote:
It would take a lot of digging. On one of the FB groups, around a month or so ago, someone was accusing PB of spending all the money on non-RRT products and NMI, trying to defend PB, wrote that it was all spent on RRT products.

Ah, that's not the same thing then. He's plopped out the all money spent was spent on robotech line in the past. That doesn't mean he said all the money was spent. It's a perfectly slimey distinction (since it's not the same thing as spending it on the robotech REWARDS like they were supposed to) but you can't extrapolate it and then attribute that extrapolation to someone else.

The quote, which I found and posted, seems to indicate that all of the funds were spent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carmen Bellaire expects to Kickstart the Rifts® board game from Rogue Heroes LLC sometime early next year. Of course, Carmen and his crew are doing all the heavy lifting. Palladium’s role is making sure the project is true to Rifts® (it is, as Carmen knows Rifts® inside and out) and approval of finished art, miniatures, design elements, text and rules. We have also pointed artists at the project. I think we are as excited to see this game launch as anyone. And what we have seen so far, wow.

Where have we heard this before?

 Genoside07 wrote:
Forgive my ignorance... but what is NMI?

NMI Ruiz (can't recall his first name) is the most infamous palladium forum mod who traditionally banned people for simply posting embarassing yet completely factual information about palladium. He's one of their biggest apologists and volunteers for them at conventions. He's also the head of the demo volunteer program for Palladium that includes Robotech yet butchered the rules at every step of the game when doing an on camera "demo" at the last palladium open house.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some key parts from the update (in case they're not ninja'd while I read it and type this)

Of course, Carmen and his crew are doing all the heavy lifting.

Regarding the board game mentioned above.... hmm... where have I heard that line years ago? oh yeah, ninja division and robotech.

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Status Report
Palladium Books is gearing up for the relaunch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and the release of Wave 2 pieces in 2017. Getting a few quotes and focusing in on a number of areas for Robotech® RPG Tactics™. This ain’t just talk. You will be seeing things beginning to appear on the Palladium Books website and DriveThruRPG (like the Wave 2 paper game pieces that went up a couple weeks ago), Wave 2 cards (first for download, then for print on demand), the RRT rules, and more, while we move toward actual physical release. Along those lines, fans we spoke with were happy to see the rough draft for a RRT scenario book and hear our plans for more Robotech® RPG sourcebooks coming in 2017. I also spoke to some folks about helping us get organized play events together. We will be offering details and hard release dates when we have them.

So wave 2 is officially a no go for 2016 straight from one end of the horse's digestive tract. In other surprising news, water is wet. Oh, and repromising the same gak they promised in the summer of 2015. Pidrak's SDF terrain looks very impressive from the back, moreso than from the front.

Wave 2 will magically go into production after the Rifts boardgame kickstarter has ended.

 n815e wrote:
http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=859%3Apalladium-booksr-weekly-update-august-12-2016&catid=52%3Aweekly-updates&Itemid=183

In other news, Palladium announced a 28mm Rifts miniatures boardgame.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 n815e wrote:
It would take a lot of digging. On one of the FB groups, around a month or so ago, someone was accusing PB of spending all the money on non-RRT products and NMI, trying to defend PB, wrote that it was all spent on RRT products.

Ah, that's not the same thing then. He's plopped out the all money spent was spent on robotech line in the past. That doesn't mean he said all the money was spent. It's a perfectly slimey distinction (since it's not the same thing as spending it on the robotech REWARDS like they were supposed to) but you can't extrapolate it and then attribute that extrapolation to someone else.

The quote, which I found and posted, seems to indicate that all of the funds were spent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carmen Bellaire expects to Kickstart the Rifts® board game from Rogue Heroes LLC sometime early next year. Of course, Carmen and his crew are doing all the heavy lifting. Palladium’s role is making sure the project is true to Rifts® (it is, as Carmen knows Rifts® inside and out) and approval of finished art, miniatures, design elements, text and rules. We have also pointed artists at the project. I think we are as excited to see this game launch as anyone. And what we have seen so far, wow.

Where have we heard this before?

Notice in the Update that now all RRT is at a 40% discount? Another year we'll be at 50%.......

 warboss wrote:

 n815e wrote:
In my mind, the ideal solution is to get my stuff.

Based on what James and NMI have said, there is no money.

I can forgive honest mistakes, but buying up non-ks stock was a greedy gamble, quite literally a Tony Reidy-esque ponzi scheme and there should be consequences.

Who is James? Also, can you take a screenshot of the comments and post them in the thread here or provide a link so we can update the first post?

Me warboss lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Best part...they essentially threw aside a guy who had been developing a rifts board game for nearly a decade and had run it at open houses for fan friend freelancer carmen bellaires game instead...the same guy that compleyely rewrote the rrt rules because nd's rules were crap (his words) and was taking credit for the rrt conventional rules until mike pointed out over 80% was stuff he himself wrote and sent to kevin months before.

Bunch of unethical pos's

Ah, I never connected the name. I always mentally pronounced it like "jams" figuring you were a big time music fan (or alternately a marmelade afficionado!).

Wasn't the board game being peddled at the open houses a Talisman clone? That's at least what was posted a while back somewhere (probably over in NMI's hermit kingdom). I'm curious if the board game will have changed much rulewise with the switch over to Carmen.

Who knows. I will wsit for it to go retail then wait until it goes cheap from lack of interest from those not in the ks campaign (sound familiar)

 Mike1975 wrote:

Notice in the Update that now all RRT is at a 40% discount? Another year we'll be at 50%.......

No, I didn't. I literally stopped at what I quoted since history has shown me that nothing useful ever comes after. I did check though after you pointed it out above and in all fairness it is a "flash" sale because, golly gosh darn it, they're so excited about Robotech!

As for the name....that is how i spell it online everywhere (more phonetically correct afterall lol)

 n815e wrote:

Carmen Bellaire expects to Kickstart the Rifts® board game from Rogue Heroes LLC sometime early next year. Of course, Carmen and his crew are doing all the heavy lifting. Palladium’s role is making sure the project is true to Rifts® (it is, as Carmen knows Rifts® inside and out) and approval of finished art, miniatures, design elements, text and rules. We have also pointed artists at the project. I think we are as excited to see this game launch as anyone. And what we have seen so far, wow.

Where have we heard this before?

yeah don't expect PB to try another KS, problem is its a well known entity they own so I don't think it will do so good even if KickStarter allows it. and even if they do how many will point a finger towards the failed RRT project? Savage Rifts may have worked but it was under a well known banner of delivering, unlike Carmen.

It's happening.

"Carmen Bellaire expects to Kickstart the Rifts® board game from Rogue Heroes LLC sometime early next year. Of course, Carmen and his crew are doing all the heavy lifting. Palladium’s role is making sure the project is true to Rifts® (it is, as Carmen knows Rifts® inside and out) and approval of finished art, miniatures, design elements, text and rules."

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=859%3Apalladium-booksr-weekly-update-august-12-2016&catid=52%3Aweekly-updates&Itemid=183

jaymz wrote:
Who knows. I will wsit for it to go retail then wait until it goes cheap from lack of interest from those not in the ks campaign (sound familiar)

We'll probably find out sooner during the actual crowdfunding if they post a gameplay video. I would have killed for a nice red full conversion borg mini in the mid 90's but not now after this robotech debacle (the same reason I didn't even fund the SW kickstarter even for $1.00 despite wanting coherent rules for rifts for almost 25 years).

Yeah, fool me once and all that. I would have bought in as well, but not now, no way.