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 Forar wrote:
Sorry Warboss, it seems I was unclear, that part was aimed towards the 'omg legal action woooo!' sorts of commentary that crops up.

Sorry. You were clear and I misread it and instead rambled on like an old angry man.

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Sorry Warboss, it seems I was unclear, that part was aimed towards the 'omg legal action woooo!' sorts of commentary that crops up.

Sorry. You were clear and I misread it and instead rambled on like an old angry man.

Haha, no worries.

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:

So to give them undeserved benefit of the doubt, mid 2017 is the canary in the coal mine.

And 6 fething months passes pretty quickly.

Yup, and they should know by January supposedly (but whether or not they share any information is another story). We all know they don't give a rat's ass about getting anything (whether information or product, both promised) to backers in a timely fashion but rather that they care about making it for Gencon or not. If they can't make gencon then their next goal would be Black Friday/2017 holiday shopping season. After that, they're back to not caring. As you said, it took them last time months between starting production and starting shipping so if they don't start production in January then the motivation/likelihood of 2017 at all decreases significantly if they can't sell at gencon for 100% msrp.

I'd kind of overlooked them even hoping for Buzz(tm) and Hype(c) for Gencon. Which is funny, because this year is the 50th anniversary, and I'm guessing a lot of companies are going to pull out the stops for it. Actually having wave two for purchase there would probably be pretty big for them, 'dying/dead game' and all. Seems even I've slid far enough into cynicism that when they say '2017 is a must' I hear 'by December 31st 2017 is a must' reflexively.

If we accept ~4 months as the target time, at least to get the plastic done, and CNY eats up a good chunk of Feb/March (I know it's actually only a couple of weeks, but then there's the maintenance period some factories allegedly do right afterwards, basically it's not THAT long a period of time but depending on who you talk to, between those and the backlog that can form it's supposedly a lost quarter or so, thus the compromise), even an April'ish slot could be hard pressed to have material at the warehouse in time for the convention.

So if mid June'ish is the canary for Black Friday, I guess late Q1/very early Q2 would be our canary for making Gencon (assuming all else is equal, but it probably isn't, but this is mostly a thought exercise anyway).

Heh, if PB was actually talking to people, that'd be a fair question; will Wave 2 material be at Gencon? They'd probably say "maybe" and we'd all laugh. Good times.

And lest I be accused of overlooking something, there's always the middle ground of finishing SOME wave 2, and having it for sale at the convention before shipping to backers. They've long abandoned the 'BACKERS FIRST!' stance with the previous Gencon vote. They make money and get to Slap In The Face the dastardly backers who have been so noisy all these years.

wouldn't be surprised if for some reason PB cannot make GenCon.

Asterios wrote:
wouldn't be surprised if for some reason PB cannot make GenCon.

Like being able to afford booth space..

I can hear Kevin now... What can I get for $20??

 Genoside07 wrote:

Asterios wrote:
wouldn't be surprised if for some reason PB cannot make GenCon.

Like being able to afford booth space..

I can hear Kevin now... What can I get for $20??

booth space, transportation and such.

and wouldn't be surprised if GenCon upped the cost for the 50th.

 Forar wrote:

And lest I be accused of overlooking something, there's always the middle ground of finishing SOME wave 2, and having it for sale at the convention before shipping to backers. They've long abandoned the 'BACKERS FIRST!' stance with the previous Gencon vote. They make money and get to Slap In The Face the dastardly backers who have been so noisy all these years.

It's possible but with how much of a fuss they made container shipping last time out to be that they'd not want to ship more than once to the US but rather go through the process only once. My (probably unclear) point was initially that I think Gencon is the only date they care about next. If come January they find out that they won't make gencon, I don't think they'll try their darndest to get it done anyways for the weeks after Gencon but rather put it off until the next date months later they care about which would be Xmas Season 2017.

I am not sure anything can top 2016's Gencon release. I heard they sold nearly 150 copies during that two month time period!

OFFS, kids, unless Gen Con is a special period where manufacturers are required to work for free it doesn't fething matter.

Meri, what's wrong with extrapolating the point at which the lie becomes transparent again?

Nobody here really thinks they're going to leap into action and actually make progress after 2 years of sitting on their hands.

They come up with a new 'deadline', and using their previous efforts when they were actually doing work, we can assess when the lines in the sand are (at least roughly) from there.

I mean, none of us is forced to read this thread.

My compulsions force me.

Merijeek wrote:
OFFS, kids, unless Gen Con is a special period where manufacturers are required to work for free it doesn't fething matter.

We're simply talking about possibilities and, in my case, I'm not even talking about manufacturers but rather whether Palladium *COULD* even get motivated enough to get off their lazy asses and even try. The only way I see Palladium actually trying to make any progress would be to make those two dates; outside of those distinct shopping/selling opportunities, I see them putting the project indefinitely on the backburner. No reason to get your panties in a twist.

I mean, do we really need to go back to the days of full caveats for every post?

"The above is purely a hypothetical flight of fantasy in which PB decide to actually do something, unlikely as it is, yes we know that, obviously they probably won't, but let's use those vast imaginations that we occasionally indulge when talking about little plastic mans, and instead dream of what it might look like to have PB decide that this Gencon and/or Black Friday was actually worth doing work towards?"

That gak is tiresome.

I'm aware of the irony here, but do we really need "do you really think" style posts? I think in the last 3.5 years, our stances are all pretty well known.

And that kind of 'purity testing' of opinion is kind of obnoxious. I'm seeing it more and more online, Kickstarter included.

Let's not do that to one another here. How about being a little more charitable with ones interpretations.

Except Warboss. He can take whatever he likes however he likes because that was seriously funny.

"Waitwhat? I didn't say any of that..." :-P

 Forar wrote:
I mean, do we really need to go back to the days of full caveats for every post?

No, we absolutely do not!

Sorry, I just thoguht people were getting a bit too far down the "Well, they could do this" rabbit hole.

Merijeek wrote:Sorry, I just thoguht people were getting a bit too far down the "Well, they could do this" rabbit hole.

It's all we have left.

Alpharius wrote:

 Forar wrote:
I mean, do we really need to go back to the days of full caveats for every post?

No, we absolutely do not!

Agreed. Last I checked there was no prize for being the most rootin'est, tootin'est, most shamefully negative poster in the west. If there is a prize, I hope it's exclusively wave 2 stock. And if you're not a contender for runner up, that doesn't automatically make you a palladium spy either.

Forar wrote:That gak is tiresome.

I'm aware of the irony here, but do we really need "do you really think" style posts? I think in the last 3.5 years, our stances are all pretty well known.

And that kind of 'purity testing' of opinion is kind of obnoxious. I'm seeing it more and more online, Kickstarter included.

Agreed, and I like the term "purity testing" as well. Also, that first line basically sums up this entire project for 2015/2016 and in all likelihood 2017.

Except Warboss. He can take whatever he likes however he likes because that was seriously funny.

"Waitwhat? I didn't say any of that..." :-P

Thanks (although I had to clarfiy what exactly, lol).

"Hey everyone, because so many people are getting walloped by this snow storm – we got 10 inches at the Palladium offices last night – we are extending the current sale another two days, so nobody misses out."

Translation: We didn't make as much as we thought we were going to, so we're extending this BS sale.

Honestly, is there a valid reason why they can't just produce resin minis instead of polystyrene plastic? I mean, feth, at this point just sign a deal with prodos to have them make friggin unicast minis for all of us. I dont think too many of us care about what material the minis are in, so long as they are quality, and so long as we get them.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Honestly, is there a valid reason why they can't just produce resin minis instead of polystyrene plastic? I mean, feth, at this point just sign a deal with prodos to have them make friggin unicast minis for all of us. I dont think too many of us care about what material the minis are in, so long as they are quality, and so long as we get them.

Because they don't either have the money nor do they want to kick in some of their own to fulfill their contractual obligations? That's a very valid reason from their POV... not so much from our's.

I'm not even convinced it is as much a money issue as a motivation/knowledge/coordination issue.

They are basically a bicycle company trying to build a car right now.

 Swabby wrote:
I'm not even convinced it is as much a money issue as a motivation/knowledge/coordination issue.

They are basically a bicycle company trying to build a car right now.

bad correlation look at Peugot, Opel, Pierce-Arrow, Puch and many more were bike makers before they became car makers, in fact many of the old car makers made bikes before they made cars.

Asterios wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
I'm not even convinced it is as much a money issue as a motivation/knowledge/coordination issue.

They are basically a bicycle company trying to build a car right now.

bad correlation look at Peugot, Opel, Pierce-Arrow, Puch and many more were bike makers before they became car makers, in fact many of the old car makers made bikes before they made cars.

Agreed.
They are basically Bakers trying to build a Large Hadron Collider!

OT, but when I googled "Baker Large Hadron Collider" I found this pic:

 Swabby wrote:
I'm not even convinced it is as much a money issue as a motivation/knowledge/coordination issue.

They are basically a bicycle company trying to build a car right now.

I think it is mostly the money.

There seems to be some...truth behind the rumor that they have WAY too much of the funds tied up in Wave 1 stock...

It certainly appears that they are low on funds or out of money.

They have a history of mismanaging money.

It is also apparent that they are the least productive people in the business, with a tendency towards idleness that is simply amazing.
Kevin seems to have extensive periods of inactivity, followed by short bursts of productivity (the frequency of which is decreasing over time). Despite being a micromanager, he seems to completely rely on the word (rather than proof) of work and expertise of his employees, which means that they get away with being unproductive, too. "Facebook takes a lot of time to create an account for."

Despite being a publishing company, they have no clue how to properly communicate.

It all comes together in a wonderful stew of lies, inactivity, debt, unlit offices, declining sales and angry customers.

So good, I had to say it twice.

 Swabby wrote:
"Hey everyone, because so many people are getting walloped by this snow storm – we got 10 inches at the Palladium offices last night – we are extending the current sale another two days, so nobody misses out."

Translation: We didn't make as much as we thought we were going to, so we're extending this BS sale.

Pretty much since it's an online sale and cannot be affected by local, to palladium, inclement weather that is also to be expected weather on December....idjits *sigh*

jaymz wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
"Hey everyone, because so many people are getting walloped by this snow storm – we got 10 inches at the Palladium offices last night – we are extending the current sale another two days, so nobody misses out."

Translation: We didn't make as much as we thought we were going to, so we're extending this BS sale.

Pretty much since it's an online sale and cannot be affected by local, to palladium, inclement weather that is also to be expected weather on December....idjits *sigh*

in other words they didn't make enough to pay their utility bills, guess no heater this month for them

jaymz wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
"Hey everyone, because so many people are getting walloped by this snow storm – we got 10 inches at the Palladium offices last night – we are extending the current sale another two days, so nobody misses out."

Translation: We didn't make as much as we thought we were going to, so we're extending this BS sale.

Pretty much since it's an online sale and cannot be affected by local, to palladium, inclement weather that is also to be expected weather on December....idjits *sigh*

Bad weather can interfere with the internet! Sometimes the handset gets frozen to the cradle!

Considering that their preferred communication methods are either telephone or snail mail, he may be expecting all those orders sent by USPS to be delayed, due to weather.

I bet if you send them a SASE, they'll send you a printed catalog.

 Alpharius wrote:

I think it is mostly the money.

There seems to be some...truth behind the rumor that they have WAY too much of the funds tied up in Wave 1 stock...

They clearly have an over stock that seems like we paid for.. As a backer I don't remember that being part of the project.
"Backers will pay for stock of material until wave 2 is complete"

But how many times have they done something against the backers..
If Palladium was a public traded company with investors..
Their stocks would be worth nothing....

But we have to live with...
Palladium kicking Ninja Division to the curb even though they knew most of the process [promised 98% was complete]
Change release dates on product to infinite eternity "we are working on it"
Finally to start producing some type of product then try to sale it to public at Gen Con before backers

In January 2017 there will be a posting from Kevin stating that the Backers ruined the community with their negative attacks
and they can no longer pursue Robotech Tactics because so many people turned against it.