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 Stormonu wrote:
Maybe Kevin will believe it's 1987 instead of 1986 this year (finally!).

Happy New Year everyone!

But wouldn't that put his clothes out of fashion??

I'm conflicted!

1986 was a fantastic year - fantastic!

But yeah, Kevin really needs to get things moving here, so...

...F it!

LET'S GO KEVIN - WAVE 2 - OR ELSE!

Well, the thread asking if PB owed us an apology disappeared somewhat quickly.

 n815e wrote:
Well, the thread asking if PB owed us an apology disappeared somewhat quickly.

What on PB's forums? That sort of thread would have been stillborn.

[in Trixie's voice]
"The Mighty Kevin Owes No One an Apology!!!"
[in slightly lower voice]
"Everyone owes me one though, cuz I'm going to totally nail it in 2017."

He's an awfully big fish in an ever-shrinking puddle.

Happy New Year!

It is another year of opportunity!
Just keep an eye on those 3D artists and we may get all our miniatures yet!

Yes, this forum really is a good place for group therapy for the Kickstarter that could have been great.


Thanks all!

I have to say, I was feeling rather worn out, so I took Christmas and Monday off, and the guys got a well deserved three day weekend.

I can't figure out if he was actually planning on being open for business and just decided to call "the guys" and tell them " I'm going to be nice and give you some time off today" or if this is more of his malarkey about "working so hard".
Either way, this makes him look like a lousy boss.

Then on Tuesday, I surprised the crew by taking them to see Star Wars: Rogue One.

He probably made them pay for themselves. But there goes another 'productive' day at PB...

Why does Palladium extend this amazing offer? Because we realize many of you are so full of the Christmas Spirit that you spend your money on gifts for your loved ones rather than yourself. This wonderful act of charity often leaves no money for you to buy a Palladium Surprise Package for yourself. We think that sacrifice is pretty awesome and what the holiday season is all about, so we extend the offer so that you selfless souls can pick up a Surprise Package after the holidays

This paragraph shows that he has no idea what the season is about, nor what charity, sacrifice or selflessness really is.

Then, of course, there are "big plans" and things are going to change this year (no, really, I pinky-swear this time!)...

As far as I am concerned, the New Year should mark the beginning of a new era for Palladium Books. That’s how big and exciting our plans are for the future, starting with 2017. In addition to plans for all our game lines, we are looking at some potential prospects that should take shape over the next few years. Things that may involve film, television and video games based on various Palladium intellectual properties. We are also looking hard at starting a Palladium podcast about role-playing games, game design, the art of running and playing RPGs and the history of Palladium Books. I will talk more about these things in upcoming Weekly Updates.

A Palladium podcast? That should be worth a giggle, if we all knew it wouldn't be a groan-inducing chop job that is nothing more than a 30-minute late-night TV commercial.

I love how most companies would say "over the next few months", and PB has to frame it as "next few years", just to make it sound half-believable.

We all know the movie won't happen, and I doubt there'll ever be another video game (even though Retro 8-bit games are a thing, just - no).

In short, more vaporware (unicorn farts disguised as rainbows) coming from PB.

It is my own fault, I like starting threads over on the PB boards, simply to show we have not gone away - and okay it is also to poke a stick at the sleeping bear.

On a positive note, if they are deleting them at least it means that someone might be reading them, even if it is only NMI.

Are the ones of us who helped saved Palladium Books and won/earned a fully developed character ever going to see the promised reward.

From FB. How many years ago was that? And they still haven't done something that would take very little of their time?

 n815e wrote:

Are the ones of us who helped saved Palladium Books and won/earned a fully developed character ever going to see the promised reward.

From FB. How many years ago was that? And they still haven't done something that would take very little of their time?

But they helped save Palladium, enabling Kevin to continue to slowly release projects well below company expectations, and to move on to projects that interest him on a whim.

People expecting Kevin to follow through on a promise years after money was exchanged? Ungrateful bastards. The bi-annual release of a book (that you probably have to buy direct) should be reward enough.

The other thing is Palladium usually sends out every Thursday .. "We are working on it" It's now Friday .. does this mean they
have given up on weekly non updates now?? Also just a few more weeks to the end of January when they will announce the new
date when we might get another date about what might be an update on RTT..

 Genoside07 wrote:
The other thing is Palladium usually sends out every Thursday .. "We are working on it" It's now Friday .. does this mean they
have given up on weekly non updates now?? Also just a few more weeks to the end of January when they will announce the new
date when we might get another date about what might be an update on RTT..

It's often a Thursday, but it's occasionally a Friday, and rarely a Saturday. So it's not like it's completely unprecedented.

And I just read the RRT Kickstarter Comments, specifically Kickstarter's position, and it's truly weak.

Kickstarter need to understand they're enabling this gak. They don't need to do much. Seriously. I don't expect them to go on and sue Palladium or anything. It's very fething simple what they should do.

1) Email PB requiring a deadline for completion. Give them two weeks to respond. Explain the consequences (ie, Point 2)
2) When the deadline is complete, or if they fail to respond, declare that the project is a failure as far as Kickstarter is concerned, and that people should seek refunds, or take legal action.

It's COMPLETELY Kickstarter's fault that PB are able to hide behind the skirts of Kickstarter's Terms and Conditions. Hell, PB have explicitly said they're NOT in breach because of those reasons. And any lawsuit would have to first circumvent that gak. Kickstarter dropping that protective shield would go a long way to allowing that to happen.

And it's not like they have to be actively aggressive about it. PB can give a timeframe that's realistic, but it just means they can't keep pushing this crap year in, year out. They want to set 2020 as the deadline? Not great, but it tempers expectations, AND means there's finally a firm date regarding completion or refund. And setting 2020 would show the backers just how little they've done. But Kickstarter just wringing their hands and saying they can't do anything, when all they need to do is take a small step to the left, is pathetic.

That's not hand wringing, it's a whacking off motion as they snigger with their colleagues.

So, is the consensus that Palladiums reply to Kickstarters enquiry on how the project was going is the cause for kickstarters response to the backer? There's definitely some kind of escalation there, usually it's just the cut and paste "we'll encourage the creator to respond".
Did Palladium admit they can't or won't complete the project?
Or was Palladiums answer so see through it was obvious to Kickstarter they can't complete?
Or did Palladium just not bother responding?

Just got the Palladium weekly update... the closest thing to Robotech Tactics is the mentioned
"various robotech projects".. great.. we spend over a million dollars with your company and just
become a side bar..

So it's now 2017. I know someone was tracking, how's PB's delivery % like for 2016? I think it was what, one book out of 8 promised?

 Lynx7725 wrote:
So it's now 2017. I know someone was tracking, how's PB's delivery % like for 2016? I think it was what, one book out of 8 promised?

That was me! And they managed to get a second book in, just under the wire. Hell Followed arrived and started shipping December 8th. The only other book, Heroes of Humanity, also barely slipped under the wire for the half-year, starting shipping on June 16th. Other than a few Rifters, and sundry paraphernalia that was the entirety of PB's contribution to new releases this year.

EDIT: And yes, it was for 8 books. But remember, that was for all 8 in the first half of 2016. Because if there's one thing PB are known for, it's setting unreasonable expectations.

The latest PBWU does have one strange line though...

Thanks for letting me do a short Update, as I am feeling pretty wiped out and not up to writing anything more extensive.

Umm... is this a cry for help from Kevin? Does Wayne make him sit down and write these things, and Wayne didn't proofread before sending it out? Cause I know I sure as gak don't give him permission one way or the other. As has been said by a few people in the past, for a company that's entire business is based around the written word, when it comes to communicating via text, Kevin sure does suck at it.

The latest non update on the PBWU is simply setting the stage for the big announcement at the end of the month.

Sorry we cannot reduce the parts count on the RTT models, but never fear we are going to plam B and manufacture those we planned back in 2015. Howver, our previous manufacturer has upgraded so all files will need to be reviewed, but this cannot start until after the Chinese New Year, so we will let you know at the end of March

Of course by then kevin will be putting all his and Palldium's efforts into the Rifts boardgame kickstarter.

Well I hope everyone great Holiday week with Christmas and the New Year. Now it begin with the same crap from PB and Kev no updates at all. I have been else where there no love for Robotech and Robotech Tactics RPG. Oh by the way wilycoyote how long do think your latest thread at PB forum going to last?I do agree with your post above me right now.

I will only give it a day or two - my own fault I started nice but the latest no news on the PBWU, get me going back in a little heated.

Then nil desperandum, I will be niggling them again there and whereever I can, If only to annoy Kevin who thinks we should be good Rifters and just quietly wait for years while telling him he is the best thing since sliced bread.

The thing about that is, nobody at Palladium reads their own forums or FB.

As unbelievable as that seems, it's true.

 n815e wrote:
The thing about that is, nobody at Palladium reads their own forums or FB.

As unbelievable as that seems, it's true.

Not as an excuse but what can we expect from a company where the owner is egotistical to the point where he ignores criticism and expunges it when possible and then has a lot of employees that work where their jobs depend upon that good will? The owner rarely ever reads stuff from his own sites. So employees "cleanse" things to protect themselves so that when he does go to the site all he sees are kudos left and right. The root of the problem is the egotistical behavior/mentality that drives the rest. The employees cannot be completely faulted for what they do, although in the end their behavior is also a driver to the whole mess.

 Mike1975 wrote:
The root of the problem is the egotistical behavior/mentality that drives the rest. The employees cannot be completely faulted for what they do, although in the end their behavior is also a driver to the whole mess.

Yeah, I hate to say the employees can largely be faulted for what they do.
They "enable" him.
Oh, Kev is the problem for sure, the root cause of all this mess.
But people choose to be employees, choose to be fans, choose to kiss that ego of his so he can be "happy".
I have worked for TWO people like this guy (I suck for bosses until my latest who is awesome) you be a "yes" man (an "ill do my best" if you feel adventurous) and bide your time and fire-up that resume like nobody's business.
They are all answerable to 5000+ people for ~$1.5 million dollars of agreed rewards they are supposedly legally bound to provide.
I just wish I could add "in a timely fashion".

I keep having flashbacks of talking to Kevin and Wayne having a full spectrum of looks on his face behind Kevin: "uh-oh!", "don't go there!", "oh no, not this topic, he will go on forever...", "hey! good one!"... it is like he was trying to "save me" from the wrath of Kevin by doing everything but wave hands in the air or do charades... it was oddly touching that he cared.

These people appear at first to be "victims" but it is some strange Stockholm Syndrome condition.
In the end they will trade-in their morals to avoid confrontation.
A rather despicable way to live.

So yeah, not a penny more to them ($1 for KS comment rights if I must... )

Got a deal on new computers for my kids and a roundabout upgrade for my older machine so I have been living the IT support life at the moment.
Now I just have to get my eldest kid to stop getting smacked down by You-Tube by not posting videos properly and getting banned (He was freaking out!).
I just told him to set up an account at Palladium Books Forums and see how long it takes NMI to ban him... he will be an old hand at taking rejection in no-time!

Also majorly contributing would be those fan-friends who blindly accept being crapped on with a giant smile.

It's also obvious to me that nobody at PB knows anything about farming or retail. Farmers know about crop rotation, retailers know about stock rotation.

With the amount of manure that we keep getting from PB, there ought to be some mighty fine Roses growing by now, but all we get is the same old Rhubarb as before!

 Conrad Turner wrote:
With the amount of manure that we keep getting from PB, there ought to be some mighty fine Roses growing by now, but all we get is the same old Rhubarb as before!

I am sorry, what you said there automatically made me think of this:

I can at least say I have provided "Jack" with a nonsense platitude: which is more than PB has provided in the last couple years.
We appear to get the rhubarb without the benefit of the roses (or was that wave 1?).
Actually, if I think of the Joker saying what Kevin says, it seems better somehow.

I was reading an interesting article on the rise and fall of TSR and this paragraph sounded familiar

Ryan Dancey, who worked for Wizards of the Coast in reviewing TSR at the time of acquisition provides a vivid firstperson
account of visiting TSR in its last days and a clear­cut explanation of the problem: "Inside the building, I found 
a dead company... I read the severance agreements between the company and departed executives which paid them 
extraordinary sums for their silence....  I toured a warehouse packed from floor to 50 foot ceiling with products valued 
as though they would soon be sold to a distributor with production stamps stretching back to the late 1980s...No 
customer profiling information. No feedback. No surveys. No "voice of the customer". TSR, it seems, knew nothing 
about the people who kept it alive. The management of the company made decisions based on instinct and gut feelings; 
not data... TSR died because it was deaf."

full article available in this fanzine http://rpgreview.net/files/rpgreview_32.pdf

I wonder what keeps their doors open really.. I think they are staffed with full time employees, so payroll is important to those people.
But if you look at Palladium website they still have rifters from way back and it wouldn't surprise me they reprint them.
Their business plan ended in the 90's and as long as some money trickles in to pay the bills they keep doing that they did yesterday.
There are fans of the games that help things rolling, but the all the games they own are either poorly written or so old and convoluted
no one can make heads or tails of it.
I think it was great they tried something new with RRT, but to be still clueless years later is sad. No one said it would be easy but
not trying to fix your problems in front of you, that many people have already paid for is inexcusable.
Another thing that killed TSR was they started to ignore the RPG game world and tired on focusing on making a card game that would
compete with Magic.
I feel if Kevin brought in someone young executive from a Wizards or Fantasy flight type company and listened to them. I think they could be a
competitive company again with in a few years..
First thing.. Either refund the money or get in production RRT - Get the problem behind you and start trying to repair the community.
Second thing .. Map out Rifts and all the games to show the levels of each RCC and OCC identifying their play level; because no one wants to be
a first level thief in a game with a machine gun welding dragon.(there's a book idea for you)
Third thing. Stop producing Rifters; they act like its some type of monthly magazine like white dwarf or dragon.. but it is not.. I can not call up those company
and get the 12th issue, it was printed and gone..

In a fantasy world, those would be very good things to see. In the real world, I don't see any of it coming to pass. Kevin will only ever listen to Kevin; anyone who disagrees with him isn't really a fan and thus isn't important. You can see the vicious (il)logical loop there. On the specific points:

First thing they don't have the money to do either option in all likelihood. Even holding aside the very-likely scenario where they spent KS funds on the non-moving retail stock, the increases in shipping in the intervening 3.5 years would likely make that untenable. PB could try to ask for more funds for shipping, but this would entail them actually showing the product which they've to date not done at all. Doing a refund might be possible in this "they didn't piss away the money" world, but that's not a "save the company" move at this point. It'd tidy up things, but absent truly high-quality product being delivered I'm not sure there's any path with even a *chance* of salvaging most people's opinions, and some are absolutely irreparable at this point.

Second thing they won't do largely because it'd involve them going back and trying to put coherency into their products, which to my knowledge has never really been a priority. Not a bad idea, and you'd think they'd have already done it but I doubt anyone could anything done in such a dysfunctional company.

Third thing is a mixed bag. Rifter is no where near the level of a regular magazine, but you have to keep in mind that White Dwarf for many years was akin to paying for advertising. I've not read a Rifter, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that they actually had more useful content in them than the Kirby-era White Dwarfs. However, the point on Dragon is solid; monthly magazines are no longer the most effective way to get information to people interested in your products which was the claimed reason for them stopping the print version. Given the complete lack of technological advancement evidenced by PB though, it's safe to say that it will never occur until Kevin is not running things.

So yes, your plan (outside of the 1st thing being unlikely due to lack of money) is pretty good but will never happen because PB's core issue is Kevin, and he's also the core of PB. Sure you could outright replace Kevin and probably solve a great deal, but why bother? As someone said a while ago on the topic of taking over PB the name has become so polarizing it's not worth it to try and repair the brand versus just starting a new one and acquiring the useful IPs.

You do have to wonder though if anyone at PB noticed another campaign that had some notable hiccups (almost years delayed, surprise shipping costs, cancelled-and-refunded products, etc.) just finished another campaign that clocked in the #4 funding total on KickStarter and six times the original campaign. Obviously comparing that to this project is an apples-to-socket-wrench comparison, but it does seem to drive home that people will put up with quite a great deal if the final product is of appropriate quality. It's also kind of a "what might have been" moment had PB handled this campaign just a smidge better, but that is something of a "if things were different they wouldn't be the same" sort of statement. I'd also imagine if PB did notice, they'd take entirely the wrong lessons out of it...